Why I declutter WITH my kids instead of FOR them
Some of you wrote in wondering how to declutter with kids, so I've been wanting to write about this for a little while now.
And then a post about parenting was making the rounds and got my wheels rolling on the topic even more.
Basically, the mom who wrote the blog post was getting tired of her kids ignoring what she was saying, so she said she started some tough love parenting.
Part of this post was about how she'd warned her grade-school kids over and over again to keep their room clean or she'd take all their stuff and give it away.
So, one day when she (in her words) "hit a wall and cracked", she bagged up all of their stuff while the kids were at school and donated it.
I'm not opposed to donating extra stuff, obviously, but the swoop-in method is not how I choose to handle my kids' messes.
Why?
Swooping in and removing all the clutter wouldn't give my kids any skills to prevent this from happening in the future.
Stuff Management is an important life skill, so I prefer to do the (admittedly) hard work of sitting down with my kids and helping them go through their items.
Learning how to sift through messes and decide what's important to keep and what's not?
It takes practice.
When my kids are grown up, I want them to be armed with the skills necessary to manage their possessions, so I want to help them practice here.
Children do own things, and I think that should be respected.
I know not everyone sees it this way, but I do not consider my kids' stuff to be mine.
The house is mine, the furniture is mine, but the Calico Critters and the drawings and the stuffed animals and such belong to my kids.
The idea of taking away their valued possessions like a beloved stuffed animal or a favorite blanket, or a toy they saved up to buy makes me want to cry, actually.
I'm all for being firm and having high expectations for my kids and whatnot, but it would break my heart and my kids' hearts if I took all of their things away.
It's one thing to throw away a broken fast food toy, but to add a beloved stuffed animal to the garbage bag is another thing entirely.
That's why I think clutter should be sorted through if at all possible.
I have the power to take my kids' stuff away, certainly, but I'm not sure that's a wise use of my power, especially when another option to teach Stuff Management is available to me.
I am at least partially responsible for my younger kids' clutter buildup.
A big part of Stuff Management is maintenance.
When I fall down on my parenting job and am not consistent at making sure my two youngest do daily maintenance, it wouldn't exactly be fair to place all the blame for the mess on them.
I mean, they're not that old, and part of my job as a parent is to make sure that they're keeping up on their messes.
Plus, heaven knows how overwhelming my laundry room looked to me, so imagine how a few months' worth of mess seems to grade-schoolers!
They need someone to walk beside them and help them get the mess back down to a manageable level.
I let clutter build up too, and I'm an adult.
For me to lose it with them over their room when I let my laundry room get to the state you see in the above photo...well, that would show a tremendous lack of self-awareness on my part.
I think it's important to have the humility to acknowledge that we parents struggle with a lot of the same things our kids do, you know?
Suffice it to say that at least in my household and for my kids, decluttering WITH them seems to be the right choice.
I've been fairly faithful at involving all of my kids in the process of decluttering and mess-clearing ever since they were very young, and I'm pleased to say that my older two very rarely need my help anymore.
I guess you could say they've kind of graduated from my decluttering school.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Do you lean more toward the bagging up method or more toward my method?
More Decluttering Help
My mother used to get rid of some of our toys and stuff when we were kids (at garage sales, donating them etc.) and most of us turned out okay but my older brother has never forgiven my mother for this. He's been on a mad dash to hang on to everything possible, it seems. It's sad because he's not that far from being a hoarder.
I'm a clutterbug myself but I'm working on it. Emptying our basement so we can install French drains has forced me to look at a lot of stuff I haven't seen since I was a kid and I realize I don't need it.
Also, I see Joshua is in a New Wave phase.
I did wonder if the swooping in method might make some kids hold onto things more tightly. I have no data to back this up, but I can imagine it having that effect.
I just think guiding kids through the process of deciding for themselves what things they really love and what they don't is a little healthier and I hope that it helps my kids long-term.
I am currently going through the laborious process of greatly reducing a vast amount of possessions. Having seen a number of "Hoarders" episodes, I know that it would be all too easy to veer off in that direction due to many factors, and I have profound pity for those who wind up in that state.
As a child, and even as an adult, I have had family members take away my things without my knowledge or consent. No words were ever spoken on this subject. I would be away (most of the time) and someone would remove a few, or many, items from my room, and/or a parent or spouse would give away things of mine while I was there, which left me speechless and embarrassed. I didn't want to appear selfish, so would let it happen, but it rankled. Is that why I developed an unhealthy attachments to "things," even knowing that mere things were not at all important in themselves?
For many years, even though I felt as though I were organised by nature, I lived in messy surroundings. Was that a form of rebellion against the threat of having my possessions without my permission? On "Hoarders," the psychologist always insists that the hoarder be the one to release the items, and that not even garbage be discarded without his or her consent. Usually, if not always, the hoarder has suffered tremendous pain and loss - of innocence, of loved ones, of any sense of value as a human being. I've been there, and I get it. Not completely - I can't fathom living with rotten poisonous food or stinking filth all over the place - but to the extent that I can understand holding onto tangible things to fill a void in one's heart.
This is all a long-winded way of pleading, "No, don't do it," to the question about whether a parent should swoop in and remove a child's belongings without his or her permission. Kristen, I believe you are handling the decluttering issue with your kids perfectly. My parents were not our teachers; they were our bosses, or our staff sergeants. We were not taught to do things; we were made to do them and criticised and even beaten for not doing things correctly, and (as I remember) it seemed as though we were meant to know what was right or wrong without having been shown. It was confusing and terrifying for us as children and has left my siblings and me pretty messed up as adults. However, through the grace of God and the desire to prove that I can rise above my past, I am slowly reshaping my life.
Bravo to all of you who work WITH your children in a loving, constructive way.
That must be so hard as a kid to be confused about what you're supposed to do to avoid getting in trouble. I think it's super important to be really clear with kids about what you expect of them. They can't read minds, after all!
I'm so sorry you had such a rough time of it as a child.
I can completely sympathize with you (although not the beating part - my parents were yellers more than anything else). I was never taught to clean, but I was always expected to do it. My mother never seemed to realize that we weren't born knowing how to do things. A slightly unrelated example, when my sister and I graduated from high school, we planned a four-day road trip to celebrate. My mother made the hotel reservations for us (although we were planning to pay for them ourselves), and we were stunned when we showed up at 7pm to find that our room had been given away because it hadn't been guaranteed with a credit card and we showed up after 6pm. When we called our mom, she acted like we were idiots for not knowing that we either needed a credit card or needed to show up before 6, as if two 17-year-olds had ever rented a hotel room before!
Kristen- I agree it's inportant to teach children how to declutter instead of doing it for them. I did this Friday with my 8 year old son, for whom every scrap of paper and little toy is "precious". His room was out of control!
We sat down and we talked about his room. He said it was hard to keep beat because "some things didn't have a home" ( excellent point.
We got a large basket for donations and a trash bag, and inched our way though the room.
I was surprised by what he was willing to part with.
He briefly became tearful when sorting through his "stuffies", so I reminded him if it was special he did not have to part with it.
90 minutes later it was a much more manageable room that is also easier for me to vacuum. We also had a nice big bag of gently used toys to donate to our local Cradles to Crayons- win/win!
Pardon the typos. They make me nuts 😬
Argh. I've been waiting for the practical stuff! But patience is not a virtue I possess, and this gives me time to practice it 🙂
We have bagged up so that they have to earn it back by keeping the rest of the things tidy.
Usually it's my husband who is in the trenches helping clean up a room that has been let go way too far. Sometimes I laugh hysterically when he escapes to the kitchen trash can and starts unloading all the trash, and I do mean trash (food wrappers, torn up bits of paper, crayon pieces, broken junk toys (fast food) beyond repair, broken headbands, etc. You can't believe how much stuff he sneaks out of there. But we would never trash a beloved possession.
I'm sorry! I promise it's comin' on Wednesday.
Bagging and earning seems like SUCH a much better idea. I don't object to that at all.
And getting rid of trash is also just fine with me!
Thank you. I really needed this post today. I was ready to have dd come home put her to her room to tidy up and if she didn't do a good enough job I probably would have threatened to get rid of things. Instead I will join her in her clean up and try and teach her how to properly clean, how to properly declutter. My spaces get cluttered and messy so it's expected that hers would to. Thank you for giving me another perspective!
I usually clean alongside my kids too, but sometimes it's easier to really get into decluttering when they are at school. I make sure and throw away the broken items, trash, etc...and then bag up the things that I feel they no longer play with or don't need. If after a few weeks, they never mention the stuff that is bagged up (I don't tell them that I did it) then I donate it or sell at a yard sale. So far there have been very few things that they have asked for out of the garage.
I have decluttered with my 8 year old and 6 year old and boy, it's a long process but I can honestly say it is making a difference. But I see it as educational, we go through every paper and discuss why something would be trash - example my 8 year old wanted to keep pencil crayon shavings which she uses for mixed media art, she is quite good, but at some point they are too many! We set up bags, one for garbage, one for taking things to their places and one for giving on to someone else. We go through each item and if it's taking too long, we'll take a break (and leave a mess in a box) for a few days, until we have time and energy again and tackle it fresh. I think kids are mostly hoarders in their instinct, and it's instructive to learn why they attach value to little pieces of paper, or wrappings or things. It's a good time to teach the importance of keeping memories in our hearts, that tidiness helps us focus on the important things and to create habits.
When I'm tired of seeing things on the floor, I have been known to threaten and then follow through, to take things away for a day or a week. This works. I don't like to give things away, because I have worked hard to pay for the things on the floor and chucking them out hurts me too, as we'd have to buy more or whatever was chucked off. And I find it rude.
Our motto at home is "kids are people too". Simple but effective in reminding ourselves that we must teach respect but also treat with respect. Not always perfect us, but we try to do well, it's the most we can ask.
Well said. I agree with you completely. Tough love is great... But I would never give away my kids' things. That's just too much.
Totally agree.
Me, too.
And thank you, Kristen, for great tips--for both ME and my precious kiddos. 🙂
My husband and I have done a variety of different things regarding the kids' stuff. There have been times when I've snuck in and taken out a few things from my daughter's room and boxed it up. If she asks me where that particular toy is, I'll get it for her because she obviously remembers it and wants to play with it. If she doesn't ask for it for about a week, most toys get boxed up for the attic (we don't get rid of a ton, mainly because we aren't done having children and I like the idea of re-using toys!). We have done the "earn back" method if it doesn't get cleaned up. If a toy is left out, it is put on top of the fridge (currently, there are books, toys, and a chair that didn't get put back by her table...that one is pretty funny really!) If she can keep things straightened up, she can have them back.
She cleaned her room this weekend, and because I've worked with her so many times, she kept coming out with things to donate and to throw away because she didn't want it/it was broken. I'm super proud of her and all she's learned! She's 4.
I can't imagine bagging up kids' stuff and giving it away without their permission. I'm wondering why a mess in a child's room would make the author of that particular essay crack. Did she have to go in there? Were potential buyers coming to tour the house that day? If not, why was it such a crisis? Maybe the writer needs something else to fill her time and mental space. I could totally see this backfiring, and yes, the thought of a parent throwing out a beloved stuffed animal because of some urgent need for tidiness just makes me sad. I agree with you that if you've decided as a family that things would work better if a space was decluttered and organized, then it's best to approach this as a team, teaching children how to think about what they still use, and what might need another home.
Looking forward to the practical post! Since I have an almost 2yo (birthday in less than 2 weeks!), I'm really interested in how you start introducing the concepts. I don't know how age-appropriate it is to ask a 2yo whether she wants to keep X because once she sees it, she probably does.
We just had the experience of having taken away a plastic shopping cart (which she'd turn on it's side and then bounce on rather than use as a shopping cart) and she spotted it as we moved it to the car to donate. She cried and cried about this shopping cart that I know she doesn't really have any emotional attachment too.
Now, Pup-Pup, I won't touch him for quite a while--except to switch him out with his exact replica so they get equal wear.
I declutter with my kids like Kristin does.
When they were little, I did the decluttering. (Little kids do have a lot less clutter than big kids.) I did teach them to clean their rooms when they were 2. I would make the bed and then sit down and help them see what needed to be picked up and put away. They aren't great at cleaning up yet (they are 6 and 3 now), but they are getting better. I think it would be terribly overwhleming to yell at a kid to pick up their room when you never showed them how.
My mom would often come into my room and say it was a "Wreck!" and tell me to clean it. She never told me how. I tend to get overwhelmed by a lot of stuff not having a home, and I'm definitely not a minimalist, so my bedroom was often very messy. No offerings of "let's find places to put these away" or "do you really need this?". It was an unending cycle of discontent with her (an otherwise wonderful mother, I might add). I think she never taught me because she frankly didn't know how. My parent's bedroom has been a huge clutter-catch-all since my childhood, and still is. I'm not sure why my parents had such different expectations from me than those they had for themselves, or where they thought I should have picked up the magical "neat" gene. I know that I would've felt very betrayed if they starting throwing away my things without asking. I still have a few stuffed animals I keep that they may not have recognized as favorites, and their sudden disappearance would've been noted months if not years later (I think a week is a little too soon if you're intending on throwing things away, unless you have a toddler or preschooler, but I don't have kids so ymmv). I plan on teaching my future offspring how to keep their things neat and well-maintained, so I don't find myself in the same perpetual loop as my poor frazzled mom.
I admit to tossing out my 5 year old son's broken toys in the past when he's not looking. I feel guilty, but all those bits and pieces that no longer stay together drive me a bit batty. I'm hoping this will be less of an issue as he gets older. We've also done the bagging up and earning back method when he went through a refusing to pick up toys in the family room phase. When it comes to permanently getting rid of useful items, my son and I go through things together. Every year, we have a garage sale to purge outgrown clothes and toys and he's been helping pick out his own items to sell since he was 4. He really seems to take pride in that responsibility and, as a mother, it's a fun thing to see.
The expectation is that the girls pick up after themselves with supervision/help. They see their parents pick up regularly and we all like having a cleaner house. I have never thrown their stuff away but there was one time two years ago when we were having issues with refusing to pick up and the mess was getting ridiculous. I warned them that we were going to do several timed sessions with breaks in between and if there were problems then I was getting a garbage bag and dealing with it myself. I ended up packing up three bags and putting them in the garage. For every two days they kept their space clean they could each request an item from the bags. After about a month, they stopped asking for their stuff back and a few months after that they decided the leftover stuff should find a new home. They didn't even miss most of the stuff and forgot they owned it.
Oy. I foresee this being a big battle at our house in the years to come.
As adults, it's been fairly easy to declutter. We move around the world every two years, so there's a natural decluttering process built into our lives.
But the constant moves can already be so traumatizing for kids. Do I really want them to associate our moves with "time to get rid of all of your things!"? Seems like a good way to build up the leaving-my-friends-and-teachers-for-some-unknown-place even worse.
You and that parent may have been working on different goals: you on teaching how to tidy, she on obedience. However, I think that throwing it all out immediately is (probably; I don't have any of the background) going too far. Unless the kids are, essentially, adults, then put the stuff away.[1] Let the kids ask for it, or earn it back, or something.
[1] If I found myself in that parent's position, I probably would go through and throw out the actual trash such as litter, scraps of paper, and books beyond repair.
I thought a similar thing. The parent may have tried to instill the value of being tidy on her kids already. After being fed-up, she then tried to instill obedience by throwing out everything.
I remember my mom going through SOME stuff with me while I was younger. But I remember not getting anything new because I still had a lot of "stuff." So I would have to purge some to be able to get new stuff.
Even now, this can be hard. I tend to hold on to sentimental stuff for OTHER people, rather than me. And I feel bad about disappointing. There was always a lot of emphasis on "OMG WHY ARE YOU GETTING RID OF THIS?" and I felt I had to hold on to it.
So, the exact opposite can also happen. The parents have a hard time letting go because it was their first kid/son/daughter's XYZ and it holds particular memories for them. Woof. 🙂
I am the mother of three, ages 24, 11 and 8. They are all slobs and I am not. My oldest (my only boy) can clean like nobody's business but only when made to do so. He is done with school now and working and has a roommate and you have to call beforehand to make sure they pick up a path to the door. Kristin, I agree with you. Never once have I even threatened to throw away toys that they play with or love - it just doesn't seem right. I do clean for my kids but when it is time to actually put things in order and throw things out they have to be a part of it even through the whining and complaining - from me of course. Unfortunately as much as all three of them love an organized, clean space, it never lasts long. I wonder if this is just a personality thing because I organize and clean my spaces and family spaces, not constantly but fairly consistently but they have never caught on to the idea of maintenance. All three of them - when sent to do daily pick up would and will get caught in a book and come out telling me about what they just read while their room stays a wreck. I've never made it a big deal because I guess it really isn't too me. I'd much rather them read and play than have a perfectly tidy house all the time. I am looking forward to Wednesday with your tips however as there may still be hope for my two young daughters. Thanks!
I hate clutter which is why I don't buy much "stuff". I'm interested to see what approach I'll use with my son, he is too young to help now but should start helping me soon. He already helps to clean up his toys so I think he will be on board with clutter control.
My mom and I came to an agreement when I was in elementary school where she didn't touch my room as long as I kept it tidy. I think it helped out a lot because now I'm very organized. I also realize all kids are different. Some innately like to clean and others need guidance. Great post! It gave me a lot to think about on how I want to approach this with my own children.
Great post! From the perspective of mostly grown, still messy kids (the 18 year old is away at school but when he's home, wow.) This kid and his younger sister both have serious tidy issues. When my son was younger (maybe 7?) my husband threatened and followed through with the 'swoop and earn back' idea. What we discovered was that he totally forgot the stuff quickly. We found a bag in our walk in attic that he had never 'earned' back. Probably we were inconsistent in the 'earning back' part, but apparently the junk on the floor didn't mean that much to him. But I digress. I wanted to say that with both kids, toys, stuff (clothes, books, papers), and plain ol' trash are all over their rooms in equal measure. When they are overwhelmed, I pick up the trash can (that has always been available, just unused) and help them see the real trash (wrappers, tags, you know) and help them with that first. That cuts the mess and makes it a bit less overwhelming. Then they can start the real straightening. Still not good at it, though. Sigh.
I love that you respect your kid's belongings! We got things thrown away when I was younger...and I can say that it didn't help any when I had to learn to manage my own household clutter. Taking kids on the journey and process of decluttering is much more tedious--but a whole lot more effective as well....and of course trying to be a good example always goes a long way! I am currently trying to work on my own habits so when my son gets older I will have something to teach him (because this stuff wasn't taught to me.) ~Brianna
I agree with you. Mostly. I do throw out some (ok, a lot!) drawings and art from time to time, because my 3 and 5 year old make them in industrial quantity and don't even seem to remember them, so....
But for the rest, I respect their stuff. Actually, I was told from my then 3 or 4 year old (can't remember) to stop throwing her stuff away. I am a declutterer and I can't stand the chaos, so I did throw out some stuff thinking she was too young to notice... mistake! So I don't anymore. I try to teach them to not keep every little thing... Sometimes it works, sometimes not. That said, it's so different from one kid to the other. My youngest doesn't care at all if I keep or throw. The oldest would keep every little thing, useful or not, as ""treasures"".
I lean more towards the decluttering with them. We have a few rules about decluttering that have helped us. The first is that before a birthday or Christmas, each kid picks a minimum of five things to donate. This has worked spectacularly well, and allows them to pick what they get rid of.
The second is the rule that for jointly owned toys, everyone has to be in agreement before it goes. This helps with the panic that decluttering seems to induce.
The third rule is that if a toy breaks and is unfixable it has to go. (There are a few exceptions to this rule, of course.)
Another thing that I've found helpful with my youngest (who is just turning four) is to declutter by seeing what she plays with. (I'm not sure how else to phrase that.) For example, recently we thought her stuffed animals were getting overwhelming (for her and for us), but she didn't want to get rid of any. So I pulled out ten that were similar to other stuffed animals she had, and put them in a prominent place in her room. My plan was to see what she played with over a week. Any of those ten stuffed animals that didn't get played with would get donated and so on. It worked very well. 🙂
This is a super touchy subject with me!
I grew up having my step-dad coming in to "clean" my room. That consisted of taking everything away except bed/dresser and some clothes. I have no idea what happened to most of it. I found a folder of homework and pens/pencils in a closet when I was in high school. Even clothes would just disappear if he didn't like it -- even when I was in high school. It all seems so backhanded and backwards. There were no teaching moments.
I always thought I was a bad kid because I couldn't keep organized. Over the years I have learned that I learn (and organize differently than most). Now, as an adult, I struggle to get organized. My husband's family was the complete opposite, they had things in there rooms when they were in their 20s from when they were toddlers. It never got cleaned out! We are struggling on balancing the two extremes of our families in organizing our own house. We both are hesitant to throw things a way (or give away) for that "just in case" day. I see a big project coming in our future because I don't want our house to be in this messy state as our kids grow up.
My son is now 9 and we have been decluttering together for the past 2-3 years. Yesterday, on his own with no prompting, he cleaned up his Lego shelves that were a mess (where he displays Lego sets he has put together), and put his books away (they are often all over the room). Hopefully that is our time organizing together that has rubbed off on him!
The swoop and toss method is an excellent way to trigger a lifetime of hoarding. It can be very traumatic to come home and find all your things gone. For some it flips the switch that leads to life time hoarding tring to regain the sense of security that is lost when all of their things are taken away. The loss of securi is a big thing for hoarders, they never feel safe again, always worrying that someone will come and take it all away again.
I am not a "swooper", aannnnndddd my daughter is a saver and a packrat. I am not, AT ALL, so I have had to come up with ways to accommodate her sweet little self while still keeping a neat house, and keeping the extra "stuff" to a minimum. To give you an idea of her mentality, she keeps all the CARBOARD TOILET PAPER ROLLS. The upside of this is that she is 5, and when the toilet paper is out, she puts a new roll on, EVERY TIME. She's a huge help around the house in many ways and I'm pretty impressed with that. The rule is, if she keeps it, she has to use it, and she has found several creative ways to use things. Right now she has decorated a toilet paper tube and uses it to store her toothbrush and toothpaste. I like fostering that creativity, AND that she finds usefulness of things in a "throwaway" culture.
We sort through her stuff regularly. She REALLY struggles to let stuff go, so it's a process.
While I am not a "swooper", I am a "sneaker". I will clear out outgrown toys, broken or worn out items and silly fast food toys I am sure she will not miss when she is away from home. To date, she has not realized I do this. I'm waiting for the day...
I completely agree with you.
One common theme with hoarders (from the shows I watched on TLC, I'm highly educated regarding hoarders... 😉 ) is that somehow they lost control of their possessions, either by parents removing everything, a fire, a spouse, etc. and that made them want to protect their things all the more. To donate everything your child has...is very wrong in my opinion. There are other ways to deal with cleaning and clutter issues.
This is a great post! I agree with you 100% and we do the same thing.
My husband and I always say our kids are people and they need to be respected like any other person. My neighbor has had his Christmas decorations in a pile on the side of his yard for quite some time. It makes me crazy, but it's not mine to deal with. My kids deserve at least that much respect.
I am not a saver. In fact, I probably throw away more than I should. I'm also by no means a neat freak, but I like things simple and the less we have the less we have to worry about. My motto has always been "put it away or mom throws it away." I don't know that I've ever thrown anything away without my kids knowledge, but I usually just have to say that one line and they will immediately get up and put the offending item/items away, or they will just tell me they no longer need/want it and it's ok with them if I toss it. My youngest, 10 yrs, actually loves to clean and loves things organized, so she will often decide to "clean the house" on her own. I must admit, she does a really good job. Also, every few months we will take a couple of hours and all of us will go through our things and decide what to keep, throw or give away. As my kids have gotten older, they've gotten less interested in "toys" so it's been nice to get rid of all that goes along with that, slowly but surely.
I guess I'm lucky. My 14 year old son declutters on his own. This weekend, I told him that I was donating clothes for Goodwill & asked him if he had any clothes he wanted to donate. He came up to with 2 hefty bags for me. Regarding treasured stuffed animals & toys, I let my son tell me when he was ready to donate them. We saved 5 of his really special stuffed toys (moved them out of his room) & donated the rest of them. I'm the one who has the problems getting rid of his toys. Since I'm the one who paid for the 50 Nerf guns he had, I felt horrible when he said he had outgrown them.
I tend to agree with William B. Without knowing the full story and background, it's a bit much to jump to the conclusion that she doesn't respect her children or their things. She very well could have spent hours, days, even weeks trying to help her children declutter, only to end up with mess after mess. That is where I am now. I've done the different methods. As my kiddo was younger, we did the method of just having a basic pick-up so he would get into routine. Then we did the throw things away that are broken and only grab dirty laundry. I've also in the last year since he is older, done the let's go through this together and sort/declutter. And yet... his room is always a disaster. I've also done the you've been ugly and you are losing everything to earn it back. All for different reasons at different times. I can see they have all made progress in different ways at different times on different issues. So, I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions on this person unless you know them better or you've followed them for a while. We all go through things that we have to find what works... and what doesn't. I'm trying REALLY hard to work with my child's temperament and personality, while also not driving myself crazy! It's a fine line. And maybe this Mom really did just hit a wall where she felt like all of the things she was trying just wasn't making any difference so she had to go another direction. But I don't know for sure. I don't know the person or blog or whatever. All I know is that raising a child and teaching life skills is a hard job! And sometimes you have to stumble around a bit before you find what works! 🙂
We operate the same way, for all the same reasons. 🙂
Like others, I'd love tips on how and when to start this. My sons (4) and (2) may gradually be getting into a place where they're able to declutter. Right now I don't think we have enough bandwidth to sit with them through the cleanup process, but it's helpful for me to think through a) their sense of being overwhelmed when I say it's cleanup time and b) how not really having a space of their own might change the dynamic relative to your kids (the kids sleep on mats in the same room as my husband and I, and our house is pretty small). Thanks for the post- very helpful.
Such a wonderful post! It is much more appropriate and empowering to work with our kids to give them self regulation/management tools than to make all of those decisions for them. Yes, it is a lot of tough work on our part at first (and requires immense patience) but in the end this is such a useful skill for life. I also appreciate the fact that you respect your kids' belongings. I work on teaching these skills to my students with special needs, and if you blithely throw out what seems to you to be just another truck drawing when you are cleaning out their desk, it can be devastating for them and set them back. Good job, Kristen and good job explaining your point of view to us in this post.
I can totally relate to where that mom was coming from, because I hate messes, and sometimes the amount of stuff my kids have and their inability to keep it tidy can make me feel like I'm going to lose it. However, it's largely my point for bringing most of the stuff into the house in the first place. The biggest issue I have with my kids' clutter is not making it worse by bringing more things into the house. :/
I have been known to just bag things up when they get totally out of control. This is mostly because my two middle kids (3 and 4) cannot deal with getting rid of anything. So when there ends up being more toys than they can deal with, I bag up the stuff that they just make messes with instead of actually playing with. (Their instruments may soon be going away. I cannot remember the last time I saw one of my kids actually making music with an instrument. Or playing with them in any way. However, they like to open up the instrument box and dump them all over the floor several times a day, for reasons I do not understand.) However, the bags go down the basement. 99% of the time, out of sight is out of mind, and they don't even notice the toys are gone. If they do want something back, they can swap out something else. Then the issue is actually getting the bags out of our basement...
My two boys are not too bad. They each have a few things they are pretty attached to, and then everything else they can let go. But my 4yo daughter keeps everything. She has never met an envelope or scrap of wrapping paper or fast food toy or random bit of junk that she doesn't absolutely need to have in her possession. She sets up little displays of random stuff all over her room, and other rooms in the house if I don't keep on top of it. It makes me insane, because I am the total opposite and a person who just gets rid of everything. So with her I'm really trying to work on recognizing when something is just junk, without being overly harsh or dismissive about it. Like, I (try to) appreciate that she likes to find uses for or at least beauty/interest in everything. However, sometimes you have to recognize that junk is junk and just get rid of it.
Could you try taking photos of her displays?
I'd love to get to this point but my kids are 4 and 2, and the 4 yo is on the autism spectrum. Attempting this had the 4 yo in hysterics and the 2 yo throwing everything in the bin attempting to imitate me. So I settled on a halfway approach.
I observe what they play with.
I warn them I'm going to do it.
I do it while they're asleep.
I tell them I did the clear out, and invite them to tell me if there's any toys missing that they want back over a period of two weeks to a month.
We've only had one stuffie requested back so far, and several bags cleared out.
Oh, in a situation such as yours, I can completely understand doing things different. My kids are all neuro-typical, so my only experience is in that realm. I'd never dream of pretending to know how to handle autism spectrum challenges or traumatized children.
This seems like a wise way to address the issue. Hat tip to you for figuring out another way to get the job done. I hope you'll continue to point out alternative methods - I find them inspiring.
Thanks, William. That was my goal. Not to suggest that Kristen should have an answer for every child and situation, but in case other parents who have children who aren't ready for Kristen's method happen to skim the comments.
And that's definitely not my goal (to know what's best for everyone). All I can really do is share what's working for my family and me, and why I do what I do.
Some thoughts I want to share........
* I agree that we really need to teach this skill. But I didn't realize it when my son was growing up. He would play with his toys and never put them away. His floor was covered and there was no place to walk. He had shelves and bins, but it never occurred to me to do this with him. He would be told to "clean your room." His Dad would end up going in there and putting everything away. We never discarded his things.
* Decades later, when the organizing shows were popular on TV, I watched a show of a disorganized family living in an apt. For some reason all of the socks in the family ended up in the the bedroom of two young teen brothers and they were all over the place. Their bedroom and every room in the apt. was wall to wall "stuff", but not a hoarding situation - just a matter of things not having a home. The organizer went into the brothers' room and instead of taking items one by one and putting them away, said, "Gather up all the socks and bring them to me." After sorting the socks by person, a home was found for them. Then he said, "Bring me all of the CDs." Being teens, there were a LOT of them scattered all over the floor among the socks, clothes, magazines, books, etc. Eventually the room was decluttered and everything had a home. I'm embarrassed to say that's when it dawned on me that is what I should have done with my son to teach him how to "clean" his room.
* Children do not need a ton of toys every Christmas and birthday. A co-worker shared a photo of her grandson's first birthday. There were wrapped packages stacked from the floor to the table top.....for a one year old child. It looked like enough gifts for an entire family. Babies can be happy with very little. In fact, they seem happiest with measuring spoons and empty boxes!
I have read both posts and I like yours better. 🙂 I think the best way to teach patience and self-control (in addition to verbally talking about it) is to practice it as their parent. Easier said than done! My three kiddos are 5, 3 and almost 2 and we are in the process of adopting them from foster care. As a result, they have attachment disorder. They simultaneously attach to everything and nothing. It is bizarre. We have been working with them on keeping their rooms clean and they are doing well. They can be little hoarders but they have moved five times in the past 2 years so I can't really blame them. The two oldest are girls and share a small room so I just make sure I provide PLENTY of storage for them. They have a toy organizer, drawers in their closet, a shoe organizer, purple canvas toy bins, a white toy chest and rubbermaid tubs under their bunk bed. We have worked with them on where things go (toy food/dishes & art supplies under the bed, dress up clothes in the chest, barbies in the stand up organizer etc) and, at 5 & 3 they are doing a great job of staying organized and cleaning their room independently. I'm so proud of the progress they've made.
Good post!
When my kids were really young, the broken and "what on earth is this" bits would just sort of vanish, as in, I picked them up when I vacuumed and they got tossed. Anything cherished was kept, though. It was their property. When they got a little older, we instituted a rule -- they could not play with their new toys at Christmas or birthdays until they had gone through all of their old toys and sorted them and put them away, straightening their rooms completely. Each kid would finally present me with a big bag of old toys, then we would go through them again and sort the still good toys from the broken and useless. The still good toys were donated, the rest tossed. I didn't go to their rooms with them to do the sorting, just gave them clear instructions and let them decide, and they could come to me for help anytime. They came to love this, and love the idea that someone else was getting a second use out of their old, but good toys and gave them up eagerly. I also taught them to clean their own rooms and gave them storage space for their possessions. Result? My youngest learned to keep her room neat and put her toys and clothes away, paring down her extraneous possessions easily. My oldest had to dig through layers of clothes and junk to find anything in her room for years. Soooo... 50-50 rate of success. What finally motivated my oldest was her boyfriend -- now her husband -- who was 100 times neater than she was. One day she told me that trying to keep things neat at her apartment, so he wouldn't be grossed out when he came over, had taught her that it was much easier to clean and keep things tidy on a regular basis than to try to tackle a real mess every other month or so. I said, No kidding! Hey, better she learned it later rather than never!
Timely topic! My oldest son (17) is just a neater person than my 13 yo. I have gone through their toys with them for years, usually before Christmas to make room for all the stuff grandparents and aunts and uncles like to give. They are older now and haven't played with most of the toys they had for years, so I asked them both if there was anything in the two walk in closets in my 17 yo's room that they wanted to keep. They both agreed they didn't care about the toys anymore, but I think my 13 yo took some Lego's out to save. My husband and I went through the toys and threw away broken toys and donated what was not. My older son was so happy to have his closets for his own stuff that he wanted. I think the closets were just overwhelming for both of them. They were certainly tough for me. My youngest's bedroom is very messy and cluttered, though, and he is resistant to me helping. I try to give him just a few tasks to do (throw away actual garbage and bring his recycling down stairs) but he still resists. I'm not a neat freak, by any means, but I don't have garbage laying around on my bedroom floor, and his does bother me. I'm looking forward to Wednesday.
I'm not a hoarder/saver/packrat at all. As soon as they could walk, I would have my kids pick up their toys. When they got older and made or brought home so many paper crafts and drawings, I would give them a shopping bag once a month, and for each full shopping bag, I would pay them $5. They loved the money. Now as they are all old teens, I've helped them manage and sell their stuff on ebay and Craigslist. Even for their clothes that I buy them. If they maintain them and bring them to me in a lot, I will list it for them and they keep all the money. They've sold every electronic and tons of their Legos and other items. This past Christmas, they wanted new gaming systems. So they took pictures of and packed up all their old systems and sold it for a nice sum. Then they went out and bought the new systems. All this takes so much of my time, but I always think how horrible it would be if I couldn't visit them at their future homes cause they were slobs!
I can understand a frustrated mom cracking. I think some of my toys might have been packed up on me when I was little too. It was really hard for me to keep my room tidy when I was little. Looking back at the volume of toys I had, I'm amazed I was EVER able to be tidy. I do plan to teach our Little Miss to declutter, but I think my main job will be controlling the floodgates in as it were.
I'm with you, Kristen. My daughter was a uber hoarder when she was tiny. She wanted to collect everything and keep everything. I used to be of the 'clean it out without her knowing' method but it was complicated. She seemed to have a method to her madness and started to feel like she was losing things or she would catch me and hold on to her things tighter. So I began to work with her on decluttering. She was in control and I tried to make a game out of it so it was fun. Now she's 9 and has the tidiest little room and playroom. I know where to push a bit and where to stay away from (her barbies and stuffed animals are precious to her so I don't even mention them but the Legos she never touches? She let them go in the last sweep.) I think you can never go wrong with respecting kids as little people and hey, I believe the street goes both ways and the kid ends up respecting you as well.
Again, this is so encouraging to me! Because I keep thinking my DD is destined to be a hoarder, and then it makes me feel like I shouldn't let her keep all the little things she collects, but then I feel bad about getting rid of things that she obviously cares about at least a little. It is a relief to know that people who have kids who like hoarding when they are small who grow out of it! My first was just never very interested in or attached to stuff, so this is new for me!
My poor 9 yr old daughter has had to move about 5 times with her dad (divorced since birth); and recently had to move out of his home completely and forever....also, had to sell my house due to being laid off (two huge traumas in one year)...up until then, we "purged" together at my house, but her dad would simply make things disappear with no further discussion or word.....This has brought her to the point that she cannot participate in the decluttering for now....it's just stuff she says....after losing a dad, and the home she thought she could hold on to forever....remember, it's just stuff....
I hear what you're saying, and for a few of my five kids, working with them as we sort their stuff works, but two of my kids (and my husband) the urge or need to hold on to things is much greater than understanding the practical aspects of 'stuff management,' for lack of a better term. For them, everything might be necessary in the future, so I have to sort, box, and review with them; otherwise working together we make no progress in keeping our rooms functional. Most of the time they are happy the job is done, but sometimes in the review process, objects are retrieved. Now, for some of the other kids, they like to be part of the process, and the de-cluttering is a rewarding experience for them. The to contrast, it seems in our household we have to work with some individuals to help them through a difficult attachments that are overwhelming until broken down into boxes and then decisions...does that make sense??
I think that sounds like a great way to handle the household members that are more toward the hoarder side of things. What's important is that you aren't just taking the stuff away-you're sorting it and then reviewing it with them. Really, that's probably about all that those kids can handle anyway!
But giving them a say and a choice is really awesome.
I was a very messy child and have a 7 year old daughter now that is also very messy. It took me years into adulthood before I finally got a handle on organization and it is still something that I struggle with at times. My parents never taught me or my sister to purge our things we didn't need, and we didn't have any organizational items like book cases (just one very small toy-box that was completely insufficient). I started in going through my daughter's stuff when she was little and didn't really understand what was going on. I have a niece who is several years younger than her and she got most of the stuff. We did do some bagging up of items and putting them in the attic on the "you can earn them back" method, but she just about instantly forgot about them and didn't bother earning them back.
Now that she is older, we go through things together. Or I will tell her that I am getting together items for donation and she will bring me things. I try to make sure that she has somewhere to put the things that she has, and if her stuff outgrows her storage space then she has to start getting rid of some of it. Her idea of what she needs doesn't always match up with mine, but I let her make the call now. I wouldn't ever go through now and get rid of her things, especially since she has been buying a lot of it out of her allowance now.
I am glad you respect your children's things. That is the way I have tried to do things too. When my son was young, it was hard to clean his room and declutter it. But as he got older, he began to be able to do it himself, even if one had to make him do it. He hates cleaning as much as I do. Now he can decide much better what to keep and what to get rid of, and yes, we had a reversal item or two. An item he wanted to get rid of, that I didn't want to part with. A toy or two that had been special to him when he was much younger and he has outgrown. I kept a few of his hand knit sweaters, that he would have gotten rid of.
Now as to the other way, my mother did that at least once. My twin and I had a rock collection. My parents worked a local fair with a concession trailer and there was some rock sellers there who for some reason gave us a rock each year or so and we rather liked them. We did have trouble keeping our room clean, but mostly it was books and papers. One day our rocks disappeared and our room seemed to have been cleaned. We assumed it was our mom, but in our household parents were never ever wrong, so we never said a word. I don't think either of us ever completely forgave her though. But then, it was merely another way that she showed us that children were to be seen and heard only when wanted. IE we were there slaves or maybe pets, but not things/people to be respected. My mother came out and told me after I was married, that respect goes one way to your elders. I had never heard her express this view before, even though we had always felt it.
Oh wow, that is so sad. I do think children should be respectful toward their parents, but I also think parents need to be mindful of their children's feelings.
Well said Kristen...I have to agree that doing things with them helps them learn and understand how the process works. This is true for pretty much all teachable moments.
For de-cluttering, I especially like that you understand that they own things too and that their possessions should be respected. I recall a few times growing up and noticing that my "things" had gone missing only to later find out that my mom had thrown them away. Even though it probably was true that I didn't use the item or even take care of them, some of the items I really valued but only I knew that.
BTW...great before and after photos. Looks like a successful de-clutter to me! AFFJ
Yes. It feels nice to have a choice in how your possessions are handled. Even if you'd have made the decision to get rid of it anyway, it still feels wrong to have someone else make that decision for you.
Thank you for this post, Kristin.
I am not a tough love parent at all (but only have one very sweet toddler daughter so my parenting experience is limited).
Apart from being respectful, I simply think it is enormously important to teach your kids clearing up and tidying. We as parents won't be around when they are 20 or 30 and they need to tidy up their laundry room. My tidying skills are still poor and I wish my grandma would have involved me more when I was little (the was the household manager when I grew up).
I have yet to do a major decluttering with the little one, as I try to bring in very little stuff in the first place which is obviously much easier at this age.
Any decluttering/cleaning advice always welcome. How/when do you do routine household cleaning?
For routine cleaning, my kids all have a chore at each mealtime (dishes, sweeping, etc.) and then every day after school, they have another household chore (wipe down the bathroom, wash the kitchen floor, clean the sliding glass doors, etc.).
So this way, most of the house gets cleaned over the course of the week, a little at a time.
It is appalling to me that people would toss others' things without checking. When my kids were little, they used to clear out toys for charity before birthdays and Christmas/Hanukkah (we had both) so they would have room and so less fortunate children could enjoy outgrown toys. They loved it. My daughter now does this with her kids. Too many toys never worked for us. Now if I could get the grandpa to declutter!
You touched a subject that has a lot of different personal situations. I feel horrible for those who had their "stuff" disposed of without their input.
When I was growing up we had a large family and we did not have much "stuff". At Christmas we got one gift we requested and a couple of small ones. I never felt I was deprived until name brand clothes came into play, but that is another story.
My kids always helped arrive at what items were to be donated, mostly those not for their age group. My oldest one day helped me clean the back garage (husbands territory) and threw out & sent to recycle bin many papers, old plastic bottles etc. We threw out a number of very dirty seat cushions and while we thought we were doing the right thing my hubby was upset we threw them out. We felt bad & while I don't understand why he was keeping them I do respect that they were his to get rid of not mine.
All that being said I think americans in general are "stuff" nation. When you see what little other nations have it puts in into perspective. 2 of my friends worked Haiti missions back when it was safe to go there. They live in cardboard boxes.
My mom was a swooper, and very good at stuff-maintenance. As a result it never occurred to her that keeping the clutter down is a learned skill, one I'm still wrestling with. Sadly, that means that sometimes I simply can't do the whole decluttering job with my kids - my skills aren't strong enough to get the job done and work patiently with them at the same time when time is short or the mess is overwhelming. I worry that I'm not teaching them well enough in this area, but I really am making an effort, and I think I'm improving over time. Right now they do help when we do routine cleaning and decluttering jobs, and they do have a lot of say in what they keep and what they let go, but I will admit to requiring that severely damaged items be tossed, as well as sometimes getting rid of items they claim to care about, but repeatedly refuse to take care of. I really look forward to your practical advice tomorrow - I'd love to learn how to work with them more!
I swooped once on a four year old girl who refused to pick up all her play kitchen clutter one time too many. Told her if she didn't it was going away. She didn't, I did. Now this 29 year old is fanatical about clutter, even when visiting my home. Was told later by a counselor I should have put it away, and tried again (earning back is a great idea). I'm in the same ballpark with the others who had no guidance, only orders from parents to get it done. One small stack of magazines, and I have "squirrel" moments that get me lost in reading before throwing them away. Thus, no cleaning. I still struggle--now it's an issue of trying to find a place for everything (clutter management ideas, please?) and everything in its place.
My mom's approach to kids toys and stuff was twofold: First, as far as she was concerned, we didn't really own things. She often bought Christmas gifts for us to "share", but if she decided they were more boy-oriented, like video games, a scooter, sports stuff, etc, they ended up being my brother's. That wasn't so fun. Second, instead of teaching us to clean or put things away, she turned the family room into a dedicated play room, and let us leave everything wherever we wanted. She even bragged to friends about her brilliant solution. Of course, as we got older, she expected us to automatically start picking up after ourselves, and when that didn't happen, she gave away a lot of our stuff, which was incredibly traumatic. We were constantly getting yelled at for not doing what she wanted us to do, often when she hadn't even told us what she expected.
As an adult, I now have a hard time with both never wanting to get rid of things, and keeping track of things and putting them away. Both of these are huge issues for me that I try really hard to overcome, and my tendency to hoard things and lose things drives my husband crazy. It is a huge disservice to not teach kids the fundamentals of daily life!
Kristen, I know and read the blogger you mentioned. The fact that you brought it up in such a way to segue into how you live life better made me angry. A post about how you choose to walk through decluttering with your kids is awesome, would generate good discussion among your readers, and since you've gone thru it you have tips to share. But it could have stood on its own, instead of in response to how another woman did it. It just sounded like judgment, which commenters have jumped in on too, saying ugh how could she! Truth is she never disclosed what or how much she donated, or if she had specific things that were on the chopping block for her own children. So, I guess I would encourage you to write your story, not just respond to how you think others are doing it wrong. I hope this all comes across with love! I enjoy checking your blog 🙂
I appreciate the feedback-thank you! When I first wrote this draft, I actually said a lot more about the original article (a number of things about it gave me pause) and had included a link, but then I thought better of it and deleted a whole bunch of what I'd written.
It's a tricky line to walk...figuring out when it's ok to respond to something that someone else has put out on the internet for public consumption and when not to and I'm not sure I have it all figured out!
This blog post was exactly what I needed today, the reminder that kids get overwhelmed, the laundry room picture that looks suspiciously similar to mine, all of it, thank you so much 🙂
Thank you for posting this! I'm still defining my style as my daughters are 3.5 years and 3 months. I have just begun involving the oldest in culling items in the last few months. She is very "packratty" so the picture of Joshua's room was very hope-inspiring.
I wish my parents did that with me when I was young. Instead they had the method to destroy my stuff. Even more than twenty years later I still have to think about how my dad destroyed my gem stones that I had bought on a field trip in elementary school. It sounds silly, but it is true.
I am still a hoarder (but not compulsive) and I try my best to throw things away.
I think it is a really useful skill to teach children and every parent should do it.
I have no children of my own, but my 7 year old nephew has a room here at my house and has a full bookcase of his own and toys in his room. Twice a year (summer vacation and Christmas vacation) we go through all his books and toys together, with me picking up each item The last time, he was ready to let go of 30 books and a couple of larger toys. The time before that, he was not ready to let what we call "baby books" go, even though they were way below his level of reading. This time, the emotional attachment was gone. He also knows those books will be taken to the used book store and he will get credit to buy more, which makes him happy.
If he lived here full time perhaps I might feel differently, but I'm just not going to throw out his things without his permission. He is old enough to express his feelings about why he is attached to certain items, and that is good enough for me.
What a wonderful post! I 100% agree with you that it is so important to work alongside and guide our children as they learn how to clean and organize, it is not simple common sense. My daughter loves to sit in her room and go through items with me, to organize. Now that she is (almost) eight years old, she cleans and organizes on her own - most of the time. She is always so excited for me to come to a "reveal" of what she accomplished on her own. She definitely has my OCD about cleanliness and organization!
You are such a wonderful Mom, as seen through your blog over the years! 🙂
Aww, thank you for your encouragement!
I always enjoy the reveal too; so rewarding. Give her a high five for me. 🙂