What does it mean to be "cheap"?
Today, I have a request for you. List for me, in the comments, some of the behaviors you categorize as cheap rather than frugal.
(And here I mean "cheap" with all of its negative connotations. We're in the neighborhood of things like "miserly", "skinflint", and "scrooge", ok?)
My theory has long been that when you exercise extreme frugality in ways that only affect you, it's fine, but when you start negatively affecting others, then you're veering into cheap territory.
I wrote about this in some greater detail in 2022 (Am I frugal or just ridiculous?), but some examples:
If you use a raggedy bath towel for yourself, fine. If you make your guests use a towel with holes in it, that's cheap.
If you get a free unopened bottle of ketchup from your Buy Nothing group, fine. If you take 32 packets of ketchup from the cafeteria, that's cheap (your excess use affects the cafeteria, not just you).
If you serve yourself beans, fine. If you serve beans to someone who hates them, that's cheap. Get some chicken, and eat beans some other time.
Basically, if you are selfish and inconsiderate in the ways you spend money, then you're being cheap.
But now that I'm thinking about it, I suppose there are other ways to be cheap. For instance, if you save money by staying in a beach hotel that is a dump, that might be cheap, whereas if you find a discount off-season in a nicer hotel, that would fall into the "frugal" category.
Or, let's say you took free food intended for hungry people, even though you are not anywhere near going hungry. That seems cheap to me, and it also seems to fall under the "selfish and inconsiderate" umbrella.
Help me come up with a working definition!
I want to hear all of the things you think of as cheap behaviors, and then we can figure out how we define cheap vs. frugal. I do think my "Who does this affect?" theory at least partially explains it, but it feels incomplete.
So, tell me: what money-saving behaviors have you observed as cheap, not frugal?
P.S. In this context, we are only considering instances where money-saving is a choice. In other words, this is not a discussion of poverty, because in such cases, there is little choice involved.
Going out to eat with others and then doing something that puts the burden of the bill on them…I have several acquaintances who are really good at this!
Oh, and a former coworker who was extremely cheap did two other things I remember - once told me she wanted to take me on an outing for my birthday, she would cover the (inexpensive) admission and I could do gas and buy lunch (suffice to say I never took her up on this offer) and she would also often ask me to pick something up when she knew I was going to a warehouse store but then never even remembered to pay me back.
I think putting the burden of your savings on someone else (especially if they have no choice) is a good general definition!
I include pets in the list of those impacted by being cheap vs. frugal. Their care--food, health, etc.--shouldn't suffer if it's at all in one's power to do something about it.
For the record, this extends to the care offered by veterinary offices--businesses can be cheap, too! Example: One of our boys needed a large shoulder cyst removed right after we adopted him; while he was out, the vet also pulled four bad teeth. The shelter paid for everything (the appointment was made before we claimed him) at a vet we hadn't been to before. Said vet gave me antibiotic bills the size of Altoids--not an exaggeration--that I was supposed to somehow give a cat with a hole in his shoulder (which they glued sloppily) and a sore mouth (with stitches hanging out). I didn't want the shelter charged more--the crappy care bill was over $700!-- so I called OUR vet and asked if she could fit us in for an $80 antibiotic shot. Not only did she see my boy on short notice, she cleaned up his shoulder incision, sloppy dental stitches, and ONLY charged me for the shot, with no appointment fee. When I asked her about the latter, she just smiled and congratulated me on the adoption (we'd last seen each other at The Appointment for my previous cat). I took the antibiotic pills to the shelter--they'd paid for them--so they could still be used and explained why we hadn't needed them. The shelter volunteers were livid at how our cat had been treated and put our vet on their list of clinics to use and recommend.
Shoot, wrong spot!!! Sorry!!!
Cheap co-workers could be a separate category. I had a co-worker who was the epitome of cheap. She always "forgot" her contribution to the potlucks but then filled plates of leftovers to take home.
Only going to a local (read: not high end) restaurant when they have a certain inexpensive special.
Don't get me started on tipping - the days of 15% are gone IMHO - 20-25%. This may vary by geographic area. We can each have a meal and an adult beverage for around $50-$55 at the most expensive place we frequent almost weekly. I am a firm believer the cook (not me) deserves a night off. If you don't, slipping into cheap category (providing your budget can accommodate it).
This is almost non-existent these days but opening a bank account, getting a gift such as toaster, TV trays etc. which you used as Xmas gifts!
Not telling your spouse you are going part-time at age 60 thus losing your health/dental/vision insurance AND expecting your stay at home all those years spouse she needed to get a job!
But I did that once. Going into a bank talking about interest rates then asked for my free Tupperware style gift box.
Back in the good old days car dealerships offered you $100 to test drive a car. I only went in once and told the sales person that I wasn't going to waste his time nor mine on a test drive so please give me the money. And I got it.
I had one whose contribution was always a package of Chips Ahoy cookies. Always first in line to eat. And consumed a lot of food.
Maybe buying the less expensive version of an item that you'll need to replace repeatedly, when you could afford to get the more reliable, expensive version ( on sale of course!) instead?
Staying with people and never offering to cover expenses or a dinner out?
Resounding yes to the latter! I have cousins that come in from out of town regularly. In the past, they often stayed with my mom and not once brought her a thank you gift. They did, however, offer to take her to dinner. But to a fast food restaurant knowing that she did not enjoy or eat that food because of her diet (health issues). My mom is not hosting them anymore.
Yes to the second example. Members of my husband's family stayed with us year after year for 2-3 days each time with barely a thank you. Their kids would charge all over the house and crash into things and make rude comments about the food I made (with no correction from the parents). Finally, they twice brought a dog along that was not housebroken. You can guess what happened. That's when I said no more.
I think it's when you are being ungenerous to others; such as refusing to ever treat someone and lending someone a small amount of money and demanding it back to the very last penny (I should add that this is only if you can afford to treat someone or do without the change). Otherwise I agree with your examples, such as taking free food or clothing intended for people in poverty and/or on very low income.
On a personal level, it seems cheap to me to never spend money on anything fun. Again, I only mean this if you can afford to do so, but I personally don't want to live so rigidly that I would never take a vacation or go to see a film or hang out with friends because I don't want to spend money. A lot of people say they'll save for a big vacation when they retire...but who knows what will happen in those intervening years? And what your health might be at that age?
It's definitely a balance, and I think the other danger is spending without thinking because 'life's too short'. Still, I think it's a little cheap to never go on a small trip, buy an ice cream or simply have coffee with a friend. You're spending money but you're also creating an experience and building friendships. Again, I only mean this for those who are able to afford it - not for those who are on a very tight budget.
Yes, concur totally. Life is to be lived and tomorrow is not promised. It's very wise to plan for the future, absolutely, to be thrifty and maximise value. I'm not too proud to look at secondhand options for things and bulk cook to reduce grocery costs, BUT when one is taking what is intended for others / taking more than your fair share, or acting in bad faith in some way, that's mean and miserly, and quite selfish.
A nice trip, a meal out occasionally, having a party / contributing to a really special gift or whatever, having good food (within reason) is part of what makes life worth living. I also think generosity of spirit tends to show up in other ways too. Like, people who don't have a lot of money might be the best neighbours because they are the first ones to clear snow or help out by feeding the cat when you're unexpectedly away or whatever. That's generous. Mean people are often mean in other ways and tend to count the cost of everything.
There are two sayings I like: 'you can't take it with you' and 'rise to the occasion which is life'. The first one reminds me not to get too obsessive over hoarding objects or saving time, as we have x amount of time to do things with people anyway. The second reminds me that life is to be lived - I would rather spend a little more to have an experience than saving every penny and not being in the world.
Exactly. This reminds me of a relative who, while very financially comfortable, was neither generous to others nor to themselves.
I think that generosity (within reason) is a virtue- especially if one has been blessed with more than enough.
I think "cheap" is also when you save money while inconveniencing others.
I totally agree to enlarging your world through visiting other parts of the country and other countries, as possible, of course. But I would extend this to one's children, too. Travel is itself a real education and gave our kids the confidence to themselves as adults travel comfortably abroad and at home.
Yes, I think you pretty much nailed what I think as well. My dear husband passed away and never spent one penny of his retirement on a thing HE wanted...Money is here. He is not. That makes me sad on a whole different level.
In another scenario, I've known people who will be miserable all winter long, to the point of getting ill, because they don't want to spend on keeping the house at a decent temperature. No one need be in a sauna but keeping temperatures so low that it only just keeps pipes from freezing is a bit much, if you can well afford to heat the house! Or at least allow yourself a cozy room where you keep it snug and warm (I've done that in older houses).
Personally, I can be cheap in that I will eat food I detest or that was overcooked, etc. only because I don't want to waste it. I made up my mind this past month that I would no longer do that. I have a wonderfully well stocked pantry and freezer, and I can eat better food if something is badly seasoned or overcooked. It happens. No one will perish because I toss out one serving!
Family members often come to stay with us in the summer. That's nice, and its frugal for them. One year, a relative asked if she could bring her yoga instructor and another friend. That's cheap.
Another relative used to post that she was getting a "free vacation" at my home. I love to have her, but yeah, its not free for me to have guests.
At work, we often have nice food gatherings. I love to take leftovers home, but I'm a supervisor. If I took them first, I think that would be cheap. I wait until the afternoon after everyone has had a chance to take some, then I take the rest home. The same with leftover packets from takeout, like the pepper flakes and parmesan from pizza orders. I think that's frugal.
My friends and I often exchange things, like I give them my jalapenos and lettuce from my garden, they give me flowers or hand me down nice clothes. That's frugal.
A few years ago, we had relatives from out of state who became the guests who wouldn't leave. They stayed with us for 13!! nights and we literally danced around the living room when they left. We decided we were too good with the hosting. They contributed very little, don't cook and by the time they left, I was negatively affected since much of this fell on me. It's hard to have any guests in your home, but that long -- that was the definition of cheap.Merbrs started to fray and even though they left on good terms we will never have them back for that long again. They hinted at coming to visit again, but we haven't invited them. There were 3 of them and they just kept adding days to their stay and put us in a really awkward position. Yu can tell it still bothers me!
More -- We literally made up an event we had to go to so that they couldn't stay any longer. The worst part is they kept saying things like "we know we're probably overstaying our welcome." We didn't know how to respond. But that's a hint -- if you have to say that then you are staying too long! We never stay with any relatives longer than 5 days even if they try to get us to stay longer. I know the burden it causes.
I agree with the idea that it becomes cheap if it places a burden on someone else (even if that someone else is a company).
I am amazed when people try to haggle over mere pennies with small businesses. I frequent an outdoor produce market (like a farmer's market) and some patrons seem to always have to have the best deal, even if it's on a tiny transaction.
Currently, I am beyond irritated at furnished rentals that really cut corners on cheap stuff. Where I live, there are induction stoves but countless landlords only provide the cheapest pot and pan that don't work on the stove. Or that only provide 1 mug, 1 set of utensils, etc. and not a single roll of toilet of toilet paper or soap.
Ah, the ''oh, you don't mind if we...'' people! Cornering you into providing accommodation and food and... and... and... for way past what was realistically offered. Mining the last drop of goodwill from you and then hoping to sniff around for more after a bit of a break? Yep, yep, yep.
My strong, strong advice is to say, "We've realised we aren't comfortable to host / host for more than 2 nights at this point. Things are so expensive and busy now!'' or ''We've realised as time has gone on that we aren't up for overnight guests at this stage. We'd love to see you though! Maybe let's meet for lunch?''
Lol. They will buy you lunch when pigs fly!
I think the critical factor you mention is “not free to me”, although I think it’s related as much to disregard as it does to being cheap. I made multiple family holiday meals before “retiring” because there was no reciprocity or acknowledgment that this was a costly endeavor in both time and money.
When I moved to Florida, the company recruiter advised me to rent a one BR apartment and not have any comfortable accommodations for overnight visitors. He also advised me not to advertise to my family/friends in other states that I had room for overnight guests. Otherwise, he said, they will practically move in with you and it'll turn into a great big problem. He said they had a LOT of employees that found this out the hard way.
Your reason for waiting to take leftovers is wonderfully sensitive. I bet you're one of the good bosses.
Thank you for the compliment. I sure hope so. I remember having a much smaller paycheck when I was younger and had young children at home. Back then, I might have been one of the first in line for the free food. 😉
You've made a good point here, MommaJo. Friends may give someone something (and not get anything back) --but they are often returning the favor that was done for them. Or the favor that's coming in the future.
Good friends don't keep count. But they DO return it when they can. And they always say thank you.
First, I'm sorry I've been out of the loop for a while, but I think my last week's Thankful Thursday explains why, in part. I've also had a lot of gardening and NDN1 business to take care of. But I'm back. And I'm enjoying Kristen's take on this question, plus the comments thus far.
To take the issue of reciprocation between friends/relatives as an example, here's my breakdown:
Cheapness: Never reciprocating when folks buy things, do you favors, etc.
Frugality: Always making sure to reciprocate.
True friendship: Being so entrenched in the habit of reciprocation that neither party bothers to keep track any more. (This is one reason why the Bestest Neighbors are the Bestest Neighbors.)
A. Marie, whew, I'm glad you're back! I was starting to worry.
A. Marie, a good friend of mine said this with a laugh when I attempted to pay her back for something minor: "I have faith that at the end of our lives when they total up how much money we owe each other, it's going to be exactly equal."
I often think of that! Of course, the flip side of that coin is that I still think it is polite to offer to pay my share. 🙂 And of course, treat her on the next occasion!
Yes!
Generosity is a global thing. Frugality and being thrifty is a genuinely good trait. I love a bargain and am all in favour of second hand and so on. Wastefulness is icky. I've known people with so little money who are so incredibly generous in every other way, with time, thought, practical help, garden cuttings, produce, lifts to doctors at short notice, all of that... that no one would ever, ever call them mean. They are the opposite. Cheapness is looking for a way to offload the cost onto others at all times, of whatever it is, of conveniently forgetting to chip into the Uber cost, of not remembering the service charge frequently, being happy to sponge off others and never volunteering for anything.
don't forget that you are the bestest neighbor too.
Anita, you’re always so incredibly encouraging. It’s a treat to read your comments each day.
And you are so encouraging too! 🙂
thanks so much. really appreciate that.
Good morning. I think this is an important topic because it causes a lot of people misery and stress. I consider myself frugal, and my friends laugh at some of my antics, but when you get down to it, cheapness leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For example, for 20 years I was in a relationship with a man who treated himself really well. But he questioned everything we did. I used to say he had LL Bean taste for himself and Kmart for the rest of us.
Another example of regrettable cheapness is a very good friend of mine who has been well-to- do her entire life. We are ladies who like to go out to an early dinner together but half of the time she can't find her wallet at the end of the meal. The restaurants she likes to eat at are not cheap and it puts a burden on my wallet. However, because she's so well to do, she doesn't consider the cost important enough to pay me back. It's just chump change. I've started making sure she has everything including her wallet and keys to her house before we go out to eat! She's actually a lovely person, she just doesn't get it.
I believe if you are purposely choosing to neglect the care of yourself or your family to save money you are also being cheap. Examples: delaying or foregoing medical and dental care, buying nutritionally-poor foods, wearing ill-fitting shoes, or skipping sunscreen.
I completely agree with this. There's a saying (I think from Italy) that you can pay the grocer or pay the doctor. In general it's wise to invest in your health. I have a gym membership and it's completely worth it to me - it includes classes and it has heavy weights which I don't have room for at home. I don't want to be cheap with my health.
I would add that cheapness includes impacting your children extremely negatively when you can afford otherwise. For example, a family I know made their 12 yo daughter pay for gymnastics lessons out of her babysitting money. Ok, I get that. That's sensible. But they also made her pay the $50 ER copay when she fell off the balance beam and sprained her ankle. That's cheap. And mean.
What?
That's absolutely awful. Their... 12 year old?
Then, one day, when she moves far, far away and will not chip in $1 to help when they need it, they will not know why. Putting medical debt on a child when they are YOUR responsibility and it's your absolute privilege to care for them is not okay.
That is vile. I have mixed feelings on her paying for the lessons - part of them, sure, but it seems a lot to cover all of them (depending on how expensive they are) for a twelve-year-old - but telling her to pay for medical care? That's inexcusable.
Me too, I had very mixed feelings about her paying for lessons. I think the family should pay if they can afford it and think it's appropriate and good for their child. But for the medical bill, I think you have hot the nail on the head with the word "vile."
I gasped at this. Medical care is absolutely something parents should be paying for. Even paying for the lessons at 12 sounds a bit much to me, but I can acknowledge that’s a need, not a want. Unlike an ER visit.
You just unlocked a memory for me! When I was ten, going on eleven, my parents sent me over to France, on my own, to visit the family of an exchange student we had just hosted. They invited me over and at first I thought we were all going, but my mom said, no, only I was invited!
So here I am, my first trip away from my family, and I ended up falling off a bicycle and needing stitches and a two day stay in a foreign hospital, where only one doctor spoke English. The father of the family I was staying with managed to get a long distance call to my parents, and I remember tearfully asking my mother if I could please come home early. I was SO homesick, even before the accident. She said, "No, it would cost too much money to change your plane tickets. Now we need to hang up, this call is expensive." (This was back in the 1980s). I STILL remember feeling like money was more important than me.
I have zero problem with them making her pay for lessons. That is an extra. It's not necessary, and there are many folks (us!) who cannot afford to give their children lessons in things. Maybe they didn't think she should have lessons because it is too dangerous. Maybe they thought it was a fleeting desire. Maybe they thought she would take it more seriously if she paid for it herself.
But I have all the problems with not paying for the medical care of a dependent child. If they had not wanted her to do the lessons because of the danger factor and perhaps thought this was an "I told you so" lesson, they are wrong because they should have been the adults and not allowed it in the first place.
I would call that child abuse. It’s putting a responsibility on a child that should not be there. A parent covers the cost of living for their children.
And likely child abuse.
I told my kiddos if they could afford to travel on spring break, they could afford to pay more towards their college education.
Kristen, I have to say I've never really thought about this, that but this is a very good discussion to have. And I have to say I've always hated being called cheap and I didn't know why. Now I think I do.
I like your definition that it becomes cheap when it affects others negatively. I think I would add that if it becomes potentially harmful or dangerous, it's cheap and not frugal. Like if you'd consider eating expired food or iffy meat for either just yourself or for others, too. In another frugal group, somebody asked about eating eggs that were several months beyond their use by date. Some people Said just to smell them or do the float test. No! Toss them and buy new eggs. Eggs are cheap. Don't take the chance. That's being cheap and that could be dangerous.
Me, I'd test the eggs. Not because I begrudge the $5 but because I hate wasting food.
My sister thinks it is cheap if we are trading $40 gifts for Christmas you find the item on sale for $30, therefore you should find another gift for $10.
Same with gift cards, these are gift cards where you get a discount when you purchase them. If you are buying a $50 gift card for $45 you should spend another $5 on them. We agree to disagree on that one. I do understand where she is coming from.
She also thinks it is cheap to regift a gift. Some of my favorite gifts have been those someone has regifted to me. To me these are frugal choices.
I'm with your sister on that one. It's not fun being on the receiving end of a "cheap" gift when you spent the whole amount for the other person. My brother-in-law gave me earbuds that were worth 100$ but I know he paid 50$ for (on sale), despite the gift exchange being set at 100$. I spent 100$ on him. In my eyes, this makes him cheap.
What?
That's absolutely awful. Their... 12 year old?
Then, one day, when she moves far, far away and will not chip in $1 to help when they need it, they will not know why. Putting medical debt on a child when they are YOUR responsibility and it's your absolute privilege to care for them is not okay.
I would not make my kid pay for their medical care. BUT we do require our 14 year old to replace his glasses (from Zenni) because he has lost so many pairs. Our hope was that he would stop taking them off and leaving them everywhere if he had to replace them. This strategy has not worked yet.
By any chance does your child have AD/HD?
Isa, I had a boss who, every year, gave us calendars for Christmas. They were the kind with fancy photos that usually cost $20 or more. It made us, her underpaid underlings, feel we had to go out and give her a $20 gift. Ouch!
One year she was in the hospital and I was tasked with opening all her mail. Including a great big box from a calendar publisher.
Turns out that XYZ Calendar Company was sending her a free crate of those fancy calendars she was giving us. Free samples!
In other words, our boss (who no doubt made double our salaries) was regifting us items she got for free and accepting the $20 gifts we were shelling out our hard-earned money for. Not only that, but company policy was that items sent through the mail like those calendars were supposed to be donated to charity in the company's name.
After that, Boss Lady was always referred to as Tacky Teresa. (Behind her back, of course.)
I'm on your side. I have no issue with hunting down a bargain for gifts, provided it's what the other person actually would like and it is a genuine bargain - such as paying 45 for a 50 buck gift card. They get a 50 buck card! The value to them is unchanged. Also, it's often a fairly small saving, so you're not getting a 50 buck card for 10 bucks, but actually, even if you were, so? Is it worth what it's worth or not?
To me, stingy is getting a shabby imitation of something someone wants that you can well afford, just to save a bit of cash.
I agree. And how do these people know you got a bargain? I suggest not bragging if you got a discount on a gift. 😉
Regifting toes the line for me. On one hand, I appreciate it when a gift that wouldn't go to use finds a better home. I would call that frugal. But sometimes it feels like the regifted item was selected just for the sake of giving a gift, not with intention for the recipient. I think when it's given in that way, it's cheap.
Yes, completely. If I am given something that is genuinely lovely, but I already have or cannot use / do not want / am allergic to / whatever, AND it's well within use-by / in pristine, wrapped-as-sold condition, then I think it's perfectly acceptable to give to someone who you are confident would love it and get use from it. Clearly, just flinging any old thing at someone with no thought other than ''how cheap can we make it and get away with it'' is not acceptable. There's nuance.
I tend to give gifts these days that are of practical value or comestible and won't clutter up the home. Things like, really good olive oil in a pretty bottle that's a bit more expensive than the ordinary stuff is a recent example, or raw, wild honey (ofc you need to know the recipient will use and enjoy it!), or, memorably, a really, really good pair of winter socks to someone who was newly in a cold place. They were pricey for socks, but overall, were not budget-busting, BUT were a step above what one might buy for onesself, if that makes sense? Small gifts that are thoughtful and useful for the win!
In my opinion, the gift should be about the other person, not you, by which I mean if you know they have no problem with a discounted or regifted present, then go for it, but if you know they'll be hurt or think you cheaped out, you should not do so. It's the same with gifts which won't be clutter. If someone has expressed that they don't want 'stuff' or more books and would prefer food as a present, then that's fine, but I think it's a little mean to give someone food or drink when they have asked for something different.
I always give my dad a voucher for his favourite store as a gift. I wouldn't do that for everyone, as they might prefer something picked out, but he's told me he actually loves it because he can peruse and choose something. It's always about knowing the person.
My DH's grandmother gifted us, for our wedding, a clothes steamer that she clearly had either bought or been given back in the 1950s or something! And an old wooden statue of something that she'd found in the attic and thought we would like. I can't really blame her much, she was pretty strapped financially after getting scammed by people she thought were her friends.
Cheap:
Bringing 6 hotdogs to a potluck and going home with steak
Making a dish for a potluck that no one likes but you, so you can bring home the leftovers
Spending 20.00 a year on a cheap pair of rubber boots and complaining that your feet hurt, vs spending 100 on a pair that will last for years and are comfortable.
Denying yourself good quality things you can afford, because there is a cheaper version ( and only lasts 1 year).
Dining out and complaining about something in order to get a discount or something free ( I've seen it happen when working in restaurants, the same people doing it every where they went).
People who will take but never give back.
People who borrow something and never return it, claiming it was their's. ( My Dad fixed this one by painting all his gardening tools a very distinct pattern when I was a child).
Car parts- often times a life time guarantee is just a few dollars more, spend the money!
Frugality strikes me as a habit of of wise stewardship. It's the saving of resources for some thing or some quality that is worthy. To me, cheap implies a love of money over anything else (relationships, generosity, stewardship, caring for people or the earth, etc.).
I agree. Cheap is about putting money before all else.
I have a certain friend who comes to mind when talking about cheap. She got a dog who ended up needing surgery. She called the veterinary office and whined and complained that she couldn’t afford it, she was elderly and on a fixed income and on and on. She is not in need, at all, with a huge pension and a retired surgeon husband. They gave her dog discounted care. I consider that cheap. She also does not tip well (if at all), and takes the rolls and butter off the table to bring home. My mother used to be extremely cheap, never donated to charity saying “Charity begins at home”, wore shoes that were falling apart, and ate questionable food from the fridge that was way past the point of good to eat. That came from a lifetime of being frugal out of necessity, and I think those habits can be hard to break.
I can understand the rolls and butter (unless you ask for more) as I think once an item comes out of the kitchen, it can't be "re-served". Which is why we appreciate it if we're asked if we need tartar sauce.
On rare occasion we've not received the meal we've ordered. I can't think of a time we did not eat (read: something we did like) as I too abhor food waste.
Brenda, your example highlights a really great nuance. Cheapness carries with it a kind of blindness to anything but saving-the-money-at-all-costs. Awareness of the difference between needs and wants, true hardship, the cost to the people who are giving you the discount or others who may not receive a discount because you received one, etc., are things that a stewardship allows for in a way that cheapness discourages.
Not tipping or skimping on a tip
Ugh, yes. People not tipping is one of my pet peeves.
For me, it depends. I do absolutely generally tip (not in the States, so tip culture is much less of a thing - people have to be paid properly instead) but not if there was no service beyond handing something over a counter. If something like a coffee is made, I will tip a small amount. For table service, always tip and round up, not down.
I don't generally tip if it's over the counter but I always tip for service. I would prefer if they were just paid a higher wage to start with, but as they currently aren't, I always try to tip.
Not leaving a tip is bad for sit down service but not tipping for counter service (e.g. Starbucks) or the like is fine. I also think tipping it out of control now. 20% used to be "Amazing service" but now I hear people calling it the bare minimum. It's tiring.
I agree with you, Battra, and I tip the 20% anyway because the US's crazy system is not the server's fault. I only tip at the counter if the person has done something unusual or been extremely helpful.
Which makes me think of another one: cheap is tipping in the discounted food amount rather than original price.
A lot of people think frugal and cheap are the same thing. I think being frugal is being wise with your resources and putting your money where it is important to you. It also involves using resources that others throw away, which is when people scream "Cheap!". No. Cheap is when you appropriate resources not meant for you. Cheap is being selfish. Frugal is being resourceful.
Beth, This is an excellent description of the two words.
I agree, Beth. That's a great explanation of the two. I'm resourceful and frugal. But I've never considered myself to be cheap. And I've resented it whenever anyone suggested that I was.
I think being cheap involves getting something at other's expense. I once had a friend that photo copied store grocery store rain checks. Back in the day you received a small piece of paper that enabled you to buy an out of stock item, at the current sale price, at a future date. This friend made copies of rain checks so she could obtain items at sale prices whenever she wanted. That was at the expense of the store and their due profits. That was the end of that friendship for me. There can be no justification and they were not hurting for money.
I heard rumors that a sister-in-law's husband supplied their household toilet paper needs by taking rolls home from work. If true, that was cheap not frugal. It is not an employer's job to provide that.
Yes, totally. It's opportunism and acting in bad faith and gaining something at another's direct expense.
It can be taking all the donuts rather than taking 1 and leaving enough for others, or it can be falsifying a store credit, or stealing toilet paper from work. Clearly, the first one is not illegal, just selfish, but the vibe is the same. It's not a good sign of character.
Buying super low quality food when you can afford things that are better and more moderately priced.
Refusing to keep your house warmer or cooler when you have guests or family members that struggle living in a very warm or cold house
Umm, yes. When my parents were still living at home, the food was often stale or from the dollar store, the thermostat was set to 55 degrees, and one was yelled at for leaving the bedroom doors open because it would kick on the heat (the bedrooms were colder than the hallway with the thermostat). Somewhere along the line they went from frugal to cheap, as this behavior was not necessary.
I literally despise people paying others too little. I live in The caraibes and a gardener, a maid, someone that iron is common here. People cheapping their maids is to me a horrible offense. I once visited someone with a gorgeous house for the first time, she showed me the house and then opened the door of a room that was barely a room, no window, no fan, no airco, where this lady was ironing in the heat.never even greet nor introduce this woman. I never meet with her again. ( the lady ironing was a Jamaican live inn)
I was the assistant for a CFO of a large corporation who vacationed at a spread for a month that included housekeepers and cooks. After he returned the owner of the property phoned me to say that he had not left any gratuities for anybody. That was an embarrassing conversation I had with him. I never knew if he paid them anything in the end.
Agreed. It leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth when people say they found someone they can pay less for maid service, housework etc - not so much from an agency but when people are trying to underpay others.
Not mentioned but if you are personally being immoral or supporting immoral behavior, you are being cheap. This includes buying stuff that was probably stolen (professional shoplifters flip items this way) or other immoral transactions. Sometimes you have no choice (clothing all has some immorality in its production)
If you haggle of a dollar at a garage sale you are cheap. In general haggling (outside of a car dealership) is the sign of being cheap.
This one, I disagree with. Unless the other person is under duress, haggling is fine. Even in the US it's expected in more circumstances than car- and house-buying. Examples include buying a mattress, buying fancy art or antiques, and major construction work.
This is a train of thought from corporations and haggling...I think companies like Amazon are immoral thanks to how they have destroyed other businesses and what they do with their funds. I'm not perfect - sometimes I buy from them if I can't find an alternative- but I try not to support them. They have lower prices but I would rather pay more for a local business.
Battra, I was going to mention the immorality factor too. It's not frugal, just unethical. Various members of DH's family are cheap in this way:
-Getting a new roof for free (via insurance) after the area had damaging hailstorms, even though their roof had only minor, fixable damage. (Many roofing companies often go around encouraging this. Siding companies also do this after storms.)
-Ordering their daughter a new baseball mitt from Amazon and returning the old worn out mitt, claiming it came used.
-Ordering a blanket from Amazon to use as a photo backdrop, then returning it after it was used.
-When on a family vacation, encouraging family members who didn't buy wristbands for an amusement park to use the wristbands from other family members.
Ok, I need to stop there! I'm thankful DH is not cut from the same cloth as his family.
Besides many of those being straight up immoral and possibly illegal (stealing) I find them incredibly embarrassing.
Yesterday I took back a little USB fan I bought from Aldi because it didn't work (randomly shut off) and I still felt embarrassed bringing it back.
The former (lady) mayor of our city used to go to the #1 dept. store and put something (always a mega-expensive outfit) away on Layaway. This woman was a high-paid lawyer and from one of the wealthiest families in town. She would then come a few weeks later and say "I've changed my mind about the suit I had on Layaway." The clerks would put it back on the sales floor, on clearance, and then she'd come by the next day and purchase it for 70% or 80% off. ("Isn't it amazing, darling, that they have my exact size and color?" Uh, no.) She did this all the time.
The store got a new manager (who was laser-focused on profitability) and my friend, one of the senior clerks in the high fashion Ready-to-Wear Dept., told her of this cheap trick. From then on, whenever Lady Mayor took something off Layaway, it got immediately sent to the Outlet Store in Dallas, 150 miles away. My friend said it was a scream when the mayor came in the first time and found her chosen suit of clothing was not available; it was all my friend could do to keep from laughing. They also notified all the stores in their region about Mrs. Mayor's cheap trick, so they got the last laugh.
To me, being frugal means being a good steward of your money and being cheap means avoiding spending money at all costs while being willing to sacrifice quality, time, or relationships just to save money.
My examples:
- Showing up empty handed at potlucks or family celebrations and demanding to take home all the leftovers when you have contributed nothing. If you can't afford to bring something, at least offer to help with setup or clean up or express gratitude for what others provide instead of being self-serving.
- Buying cheap goods that do not last when you could afford something better.
- Returning items after they have been used. My SIL bought decorations for Mom's 70th birthday celebration with the intent of returning them after the party, which is immoral in my mind.
Yes, I hate when people buy stuff they intend to return after they use. I used to work in retail and after New Year’s we would have people come in trying to return dresses that still smelled like perfume.
A lot of men will show up to a potluck with a small bag of potato chips or corn chips, and then pile their plates high with homemade entrees. To me, that's cheap.
Totally concur with the general consensus that putting the burden of your frugality and wanting to save onto others, whether explicitly or just tacitly is the Worst. So, so many examples of that and I cannot, cannot stand miserly behaviour. Sponging off others, letting someone else always cover the tip, never chipping in 1 cent more than can be avoided under any circumstances is cheap, not frugal.
We were out to dinner with my sister and some extended family. My honey told our waitress he would pay, My sister said my honey always pays so she would get it. She proceeded to point to everyone except my husband and I. She said she’d pay for everyone but us.
The first thing that comes to mind for me is cheating, including stealing. Examples include saying you qualify for a discount that you don't, using a food bank when you aren't in need, and your example of taking dozens of katsup packages.
I think another is not to support others as expected for your time and place. Michael Jordan is infamous for his lack of charity, to the point of not allowing his extra Hummer and extra truck to be used in a blizzard to help medical personnel get to work (this one is from first-hand knowledge, as I saw his vehicles in the garage). An Indian friend of mine told me that back home (Bangalore), her well-off family employed a lot of day labor rather than doing it themselves; this was expected of them as a form of charity and local support.
I'll add more if I think of any.
I'm not sure I agree with you that if it affects only yourself it's not cheap. We'd consider Scrooge's home life cheap, even though it affected only himself. So I think I have a third one: if you keep your standard of living far below some (vaguely defined) generally accepted minimum, such as wearing holely, tattered, dirty clothes. And put your health at risk.
Yes, William to the Scrooge point:
As a teacher of 35 years, I believed I was my students best resource. I was dedecated to the giving them a respectful, productive and nurturing classroom everyday. As such it was my responsibility to take care of myself. I ate healthy food, dressed becomingly, sought outside help for mental, physical and spiritual needs all which came with a moderate or not moderate price tag as the case maybe.
I am still of important service to my friends, aging parents and husband. I spend money on myself to keep me in balance.
Maybe the definition of cheap has to include self centeredness.
Beautiful sentiments and wisdom for a teacher's heart! I realized I am passionate about teacher retention and wellness after continuously losing so many coworkers to burnout and various circumstances. We can't burn the candle at both ends and still show up in the way our students need us. Thank you!
I just want to mention that Michael Jordan has made a lot of charitable donations. He’s worked for Make a Wish for almost 20 years, for example, and he has donated a lot of money to a variety of different causes. This comment surprised me so I did a quick Google search. You may be right about your personal experience with him, and obviously I don’t know what’s in the guy’s heart. But saying he’s infamous for lack of charity doesn’t seem supported by facts.
I've heard that Michael Jordan not loaning a hummer in a snowstorm as an urban legend so not sure on that one but I do know he recently donated an additional $10 million to support a medical facility on North Carolina in honor of his mom, so he's definitely supported communities and organizations throughout his career to the tune of more than $100 million. In addition he's pledged $100 million as part of his brand profits as well to various organizations.
I can't speak to the rest - it seems my info is out of date - but I can speak to the hummer. I knew his on sight and I saw it in the garage during a long snow storm and aftermath.
Maybe he's changed since then.
My husband's friend (or friend's friend?) once caddied for MJ and received a $500 tip (decades ago).
It seems to me that we need to add cheating/stealing as a separate category all of itself apart from frugality and being cheap. Cheating and stealing are after all plain cheating and stealing. I cannot consider that on the same level as being cheap.
Years ago I received a gift, a box of blank cards with envelopes. When I opened them, one card had writing in it! A used gift! That’s cheap!!
My Dad once gifted my son for his birthday a toy we had accidentally left at his house the year before.
I heard Nancy Reagan did that to her grandkids when she was First Lady.
My late brother was the master of being cheap. When our mother was in her last years and had dementia, he would insist that we take her out for Mother's Day and birthdays. This meant I had to collect her from assisted living and shepherd her through the meal and the bathroom visits, then take her back. She did not even enjoy these trips because the environment was unfamiliar. Then he would stick us with the check and leave a stingy tip instead of paying his share.
On the last ever of these celebratory meals, I felt bad for the waitress -- brother was a very demanding customer -- and insisted on covering the tip. He lagged behind us leaving the table, and I looked back to see him swapping my $20 for a $5!
My dad was a cheap tipper. One time the waiter called after us as we left and he politely asked what he had done wrong or didn't do. (His service had been good.) My mother and I were mortified when we realized how small the tip was so we nudged my dad out of the way and adjusted the tip. We vowed never to let my dad tip again! My husband and I try to be as generous as we can, and even put aside funds during the year to afford an extra large tip around the holidays for the folks at our local diner who make every visit a pleasure.
I circled back around after he stole my tip that time and gave more cash to the waitress.
There is literally no end to the stories I have about how he cheaped out on other people.
If I know I'm with a bad tipper, I give the tip directly to the wait staff.
Taking things you don't need, or even especially like, just because they are 'free' is cheap, not frugal.
Taking extra packets of cookies at a blood drive to take home for snacks later. The blood drive organization pays for those cookies and they're to help people who have donated -- not to provide snacks for you later.
Taking seeds from the free seed exchange at our community library, but never, ever, donating seeds back. (Even though a large sign encourages people to donate seeds if they take some, and there is a lot of information detailing how to do so.)
If you're always on the receiving end of others' generosity, but never returning that generosity (and are in a position to do so) then you're being cheap, not frugal.
What about taking things for free you don't need for resale?
I had a BFF who was a smaller size than me. I had gained weight. She saw some clothes I was going to take to either Goodwill or Consignment (I forget which) and had a fit: "Oh! These are so pretty. I wish I could wear them to work." So I gave them to her. Three weeks later, I was at the consignment store and what did I see on the racks? My clothes! My (now-former) BFF had taken them and consigned them. End of friewndship.
Oooh, now you've come to meddlin'! One of Kristen's good friends does this. I find it amusing, but never thought of it as cheap. (Still not sure I do, anyways.)
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think it’s cheap - and distasteful - to accept or take an item that is free when your intention is to re-sell it for profit. I often offer items I could certainly sell myself to my neighborhood Buy Nothing group and add the latest book I’ve bought to my Little Free Library in front of my house. I do this so neighbors and community members can benefit, not so a reseller can cherry-pick the “profitable items” to make a buck. It is also cheap to take furniture or other useable items from curbs or stoops to resell as others may be truly in need of the item (tables, linens, plates, mugs, etc).
In my family, frugal is - penny wise, economical, careful. When you acquire inferior things they are cheap. When you are opposed to spending to better care for your own and not be a burden on someone else, that is stingy.
We went to lunch yesterday with my mom's oldest, dearest friends and one of them is very wealthy and when the bill came, I took it and paid and told them thank you for still including mom as she remembers them fondly. The one friend took me aside and said that was foolish as I wasn't even working. I assured her that all is well, even if I'm just a farmer now.
After reading all of the wonderful posts, they are a reminder why I can't wait to get my chores and morning yoga done so I can come here! I remember overhearing some cluck cluck at church saying the only reason my husband and I took in foster kids was to make money. So hurtful. She did not know that each child opened their own bank account, the money was deposited there and when they moved on from us, they took it with them. Bless her heart...
What a wonderful thing you were able to do for your foster children. First you gave them a safe home and then you helped them financially take the next step!
what a great thing to do. i would have loved to do that but alas we have a one bedroom with one bath and four peeps. g-d bless you.
I had a coworker that would wrap food from a buffet in napkins to take home. We once attended a big retirement dinner and she went around to all the tables asking if they were going to finish their bread and boxed it all up to take home.
Cheap tippers or no tippers. I’m not talking about not tipping at someplace like Starbucks where it’s counter service and the employees are making at least minimum wage, I’m talking about people who go to sit down restaurants and don’t tip or tip like 5%.
Related, people who want to split the bill evenly in restaurants when the ordering was not even.
This is a sometimes cheap- donations to charities as gifts. If the receipt requested that, it’s thoughtful and perfectly fine. But sometimes people will make a donation to a charity they support but the recipient does not and call it a gift.
Also gifts that are more for the giver than the receiver. I’m thinking of that old Simpsons episode where Homer gets Marge a bowling ball with his name on it for her birthday 😆. Unfortunately stuff like that does happen in real life too.
I’ve had a family member offer to take us out to eat at a restaurant, only to tell us that we could only choose from certain parts of the menu once we were there. We would not have ordered a pricey meal anyway, but nothing sounded good from the “discount” section of the menu. We tried to adjust our attitude to remain thankful that we were being treated to something, but it took some of the fun out of the experience.
There's been a lot of good comments here; I think one more aspect to cheapness is to only put forth money (and effort costing money) in relationships and things when it brings a very clear benefit to you, making every interaction very transactional.
Picking through the Trader Joe’s bananas has always bothered me. No one wants the little stragglers left behind. Two different bloggers have bragged about this.
I have no problems with looking for good produce. I don't want the poor-quality ones either. At least, not if I'm paying full price. Now if they offer it in the discount bin...
It's not based on quality. I'll remove an obviously bruised banana. They take the large bananas because they are $.19 each no matter the size.
Buying cheap clothing and other products that have to be replaced all the time because they don't stand up to typical use.
I am gobsmacked that people have disagreements about taking leftovers from business pot-lucks. If I brought lasagne and it's not completely gone, I take the leftovers home. When it's business-provided and business-paid for food, I always gave the receptionist and the person responsible for cleaning the lunch room first dibs. There's a difference between sensible frugality and hoggishness.
Speaking of, have you read the memoir by Belle Burden about her marriage and how her husband divorced her? Her story would probably make a column (or two), considering how she fared financially and how normal mothers of three children manage after separation and divorce. How women manage or do not manage their money is endlessly interesting, isn't it.
just ordered it from my library. thanks. can't wait until i get it.
I don’t have a list, but my top one is when people don’t tip well (and they received good service). Cheap.
I belong to a buy nothing group and notice a few people go after all the free food offered.Sometimes there are some snacks or specialty things I’d like but I have “enough” food and so I do leave it for moms who may be trying to feed a family in these hard times.
I only host my Ladies Card playing group only once every 8 weeks so I don’t Cheap out..” I make a nice lunch and a good dessert.We deserve it and it is a way to honor myself AND my friends with a HOMEMADE luncheon for all of us to enjoy together. (More frugal than restaurant lunches!!) I am FRUGAL..use what I have in pantry etc but I do splurge a little on things I usually don’t buy, like ice cream.ANd will make some more extravagant entrees sometimes.
Cheap: I gave a friend a homemade dinner of stuffed manicotti with sausage gravy for her birthday.. it is her favorite meal that I make… to be brought down to her house and served.She wanted it to be me and husband and her and her daughter and she would provide “appetizers,etc”. When the evening came, there was no wine, not even seltzer water and crudites, no pre dinner appetizers, she had set a table and set a salad out and that was that.I did think that was kind of cheap..I am not sure what happened, but I had been expecting a bit of a festive evening since I had done so much home cooking and she had offered a “dinner party” gathering.. ???
Cheap is also when you splurge on some service then cheap out on a tip..such as a massage (which I never get!) or a tip to the driver for the airport.
I believe in kindness along with my frugalities!!
That dinner party reminds me of DH's cousin's fancy affair. Suits, cocktail dresses, and a 3 piece jazz band. Full bar. But on the table, one small roast beef. That's it. A hunk of beef on a plate.
I think she forgot to tell us it was potluck or something, but family members ran out to get groceries pronto! It was a really fun party though, as you can imagine!
Another example of cheap vs. frugal is borrowing something and then not returning it, or returning it in poor condition. Borrowing rarely used items can be frugal (and good for the environment vs producing more stuff). But a friend borrowed an item and returned it without the charging cord. It was then unusable until I ordered a new cord for $40. Very irritating.
Yes, my MIL borrowed my large slow cooker once to cook a turkey breast for a family gathering. My SIL took the remaining meat home and "needed my pot to transport the meat." When she returned it, she only returned the crock and the lid (no outer part that powers the unit.
I have no idea where it ended up...lost in her cluttered house or at MIL's?? I went to the thrift store and replaced the whole thing... never commented but won't loan either of them things I could not replace easily.
I have a friend who used to try to trap me in various ways, for example, by inviting me over to hang out when she really wanted me to sit in the car with her infant while she ran errands (free babysitting), or by sharing the cost of takeout that she would then pull aside mostly for herself. We are old friends, and I made sure that each variation of this happened exactly one time (“No, thank you, I do not want to get together in the way we did yesterday,” or “I need something to eat out of what we/I bought,” that sort of thing.) There is still a tendency toward cheapness, but there has also been growth in this area for her.
If you take 32 packets of ketchup from the cafeteria, that's not cheap, that's stealing. If the drive through restaurant gives you 3 packets and you use one, saving the others to use at home is frugal and responsible.
Agreed! I always save extras if they throw them in the bag.
But I am honestly confused at the people who take a bunch of extras home because I generally find the tiny packets annoying. Like, at one point I opened up a bunch of the saved soy sauce packets from takeout, to put in a sauce, and it was a lot of work. Ha.
It might even be cheap of it only affects you and no one else. For example if you only buy unhealthy food because of price reasons - like you only buy the cheapest white bread instead of wholemeal bread.
Yes, It's important to treat ourselves in a loving and caring manner, so I think there can be cheapness even when it doesn't affect anyone else. If you deny yourself something that you can well afford and would improve your quality of life in some way, I would consider that to be cheap.
Yes, this is the kind of thing I was considering when I realized my definition was too narrow!
I can tell you 100's of cheap ugly actions committed by my mother's brother -- I refuse to call him my uncle -- but I will limit myself to the most outrageous.
My mom was this skinflint's only sibling. When she died, we had the funeral in our church, a place he hadn't been since maybe the 1950's -- many decades prior. He criticized the whole thing, saying we could've just had a graveside service a lot cheaper. He even told me I erred in the flowers: instead of the florist, he said I should've gone to the discount grocery store to get some.
It was easy to see he'd taken his own advice, because in the sea of pretty arrangements from my mother's many friends, there was a half-dead pot of chrysanthemums, obviously from the discounter's clearance shelf. I bet he paid all of one dollar for it. Which was probably 50 cents too much.
After the service, Mom's rotten brother rushed up to the front of the church and told the pastor and the funeral director, "These are mine. I'm taking them home to transplant in my yard," and snatched away his pathetic pot of 'mums.
The funeral director was flabbergasted: "Never in my 45 years of funerals has anyone come up and grabbed their flowers like that," he told Daddy and me. The rest of the arrangements, of course, were to be taken to the gravesite. (I told the funeral director that was OK, since I didn't want those horrible half-dead flowers at Mom's gravesite anyway. They clearly belonged in the trashcan. )
Sometime later, Mom's greedy jerk brother died. Since he was not an active Christian, they had to have a graveside funeral with a rent-a-preacher. At the visitation, held at a discount funeral home that has just opened, his widow had an arrangement of red roses on his coffin. His daughters told me that he hated carnations and chrysanthemums, " because he always said 'they are cheap funeral flowers'," the daughters explained.
That made me even angrier at the greedy jerk. It was all I could do to bite my tongue and not tell them about his ugly actions toward his sister/my mother.
However, what was really funny was that the day before his funeral, that same funeral home had a visitation and funeral service for a convicted murderer who had gone to the electric chair -- and it was in the exact same room as my mother's brother's visitation. In our little Southern community, everyone was whispering about that fact, so the joke was on him.
Honey, I think we may be related. My brother walked up to our mother's coffin and began lecturing me about how a cremation would have left us with more money. I said, "This is entirely your fault because I asked what you preferred five years ago when planning her funeral." His mouth snapped shut so fast I was surprised he didn't chip a tooth.
His preference for cheap funerals came home to roost when he dropped dead without having planned ahead. Since I had to pay for it, he got the least expensive service.
Yes, Ruby, death can bring out the greed in a lot of people.
A college friend said when her grandmother died, her cheap uncle from out of state drove up to the funeral with a rented U-Haul trailer, ready to clean out the house before the will was read. My friend's brothers and other relatives, shall we say, disavowed him of that notion.
At a restaurant not tipping or low tipping when service was good or great. Factor in tipping in your going out to eat budget. We call these people TRex arms, they can’t reach their wallet.
I have people who don’t bring cash (which I realize is much more common these days) and allow others to pay - but generally forget to reimburse you when they do have funds.
In Nl, we have an app for that, designed by one of national banks. You can send your friends a "Tikkie" via the app to split costs for meals, joint gifts, cost of travel, etc.
If this app is something only known to the Dutch, it underscores the reputation we have for being mean, I'm afraid -
In the US we don't have a universal app, but there are a few common ones that are often used that way (for my generation, a popular one is Venmo).
when i was in college in macon, ga my roommate lived on a farm in a small town near the school. she invited my stepmother and me to visit. we were there for along while and were not even offered a glass of water.
Taking lunch from a free hotel breakfast comes to mind as a cheap practice. It may stem from remembering how much cheaper hotels used to be!
Not tipping 15-20%.
In the past I may have said complaining about thrift store prices, but many are charging the same as retail sale prices!
I read every comment. I only disagreed with a couple. I think re-gifting is fine if the gift is appropriate for the new recipient’s taste. I think getting a deal on an item for gift exchanges is fine too.
I think the working definition you have is pretty spot on. I would add those who will deprive themselves of something despite being able to easily afford it, but will jump at the chance to have someone else pay for that same thing for them. That, to me, screams cheap. I'm not out here spending my dollars like Scrooge McDuck, but I will give myself a little (reasonable) treat every now and then.
It all depends on your point of view. I know people with plenty of money who volunteer at food pantries so they can get a free food box, because there are always more than enough at the end of the giveaway. I think that is cheating. They think it is preventing food waste.
Another example, Cutco offers lifetime warranties on their products. I know someone who buys old Cutco knives and scissors at yard sales for a pittance and then mails them into Cutco to get free replacements. I think she is cheating because the lifetime warranty at the time of purchase was for someone else. She thinks she is requiring a manufacturer to honor their policy.
So I follow my conscience.
I would ask if the Cutco warranty is for the original owner only. It's not as if that's a small company, naive in its policies. If they don't restrict it to original owner, then your acquaintance is on the right side of the line.
There was a show called Extreme Cheapstakes. My kids and I stumbled upon it. They asked why someone goes to such extremes (using rainwater for laundry, removing your oven and capping the gas line, etc). It allowed us to have a conversation on balance and saving with purpose. I think the show can still be seen on several streaming services.
My son loves to watch that show because people are so bananas. Most of the time-their extreme behavior is on the back of someone else and they are being horribly stingy and selfish, not frugal. I have never seen an episode where the extreme behavior was for surviving poverty, etc. Someone pays when you take the extra cookies/ketchup/etc. Just because it’s not you doesn’t make it right!
My son knows the difference between being frugal and making wise choices versus cheating others for your gain!
The gymnastics thing reminds me- when I waa 13/14, a friend of mine *hand dug and leveled* an area for a giant trampoline. She was new to living with her dad and stepmom and they didn't want to buy her the trampoline to practice flips. She'd been at the sport since she was little, so it wasn't a whim. She didn't tell any of us until after it was complete and they weren't happy about keeping up their end of the deal (they eventually did). She was competing in high school, but we lost touch.
I know when I was getting out of debt, I would ask friends if we could go for a walk, grab coffee, or if I could host them with wine/cheese and one friend got so mad and called me cheap. For her, she saw going out to fancy dinners as a necessity as she lived alone and it was a way to feel pampered.
Kristen, if you haven't done a post on it (or pin this for a miscellaneous post), I'd love to know how you handle financial differences amongst friends when it comes to activities. I got used to saying no, suggesting alternatives, and explaining my financial situation (I used to be ashamed, but now I find it opens dialogue). I'm curious how others handle it.
One definition could be: it is cheap if it's not ethically, socially and environmentally correct. And it must include yourself, your fellow humans (and animals) and nature in general. 🙂
My godmother gave me 4 mismatched “antique” spoons as a wedding gift. In the note she said it was “because I know your love of old things”. I wanted to scream, “secondhand is all I can afford, I have a wedding registry for a reason!” For her 60th birthday, she threw herself a party with a wandering violinist and open bar. She could’ve afforded to buy me a wedding gift. That’s cheap.
Interesting conversation (that I'm late to).
The version of cheap that drives us all nuts is the one that's selfish — miserly, greedy, inhospitable, damaging, mean and so on. Cheap always looks like money.
It is entirely possible to be frugal while still being loving — generous, caring, friendly, and kind. Frugal doesn't always look like money.
I like this idea of what “looks like money.” I think you’re right!
I definitely agree that cheapness can be defined by how it infringes on others. I was once at a dinner where a younger person was delighted and proud to finally be in the position to treat an older person who had been something of a mentor to her years before. The older person spoiled the dinner by constantly reminding the younger person (and the entire table) of the cost of every morsel, and even stopped her from ordering an appetizer she obviously wanted everyone to share because it cost extra and was "a waste of money". You could see the joy drain out of the younger person in real time.
Much later on, this same older person and I were in a situation where we needed to split the cost of something fairly large. She shirked in the moment from laying her card down for the payment, but when we settled up later, she grumbled at me because my card would get the cashback bonus, not hers.
I grew up with rather frugal parents and sometimes felt frustrated by it, as kids sometimes do... but this woman was the person who first made me contemplate the HUGE difference between frugal and cheap!
When I think of cheapness- it is more of an end, not a means to an end. Cheap people focus exclusively on dollars and cents regardless of how it affects their well being, others well being, societies well being and the planets well being. Frugal is when you are trying to maximize savings and reduce waste while also considering the well being of you, your community, society and the planet in pursuit of living a values-driven life. Cheapness is when the dollars and cents is the sole focus.
I like that; more of a big-picture kind of way to view it.
The news was talking the other day about how 45% of Americans can't afford what they need right now, so it is great we are recognizing that this is a discussion about where people can afford to be generous. I'm seeing a lot more people being generous where they can but that they may not be able to be generous across the board anymore. For example, a host agreeing to have someone stay with them (to save the guest money), the host having the guest use the same old (but clean) towels that the host uses because the host bought tickets to treat the guest, bought breakfast foods for the guests, has to pay more for hot water use, etc. It is also so nice when people who do have money appreciate the things that friends without as much money do to contribute to the friendship, like host a dinner at home, invite the friend with more money to a free event, offer to help the friend with more money, etc. Great discussion!
I think cheap is when people who can afford food go to the food bank or the little food pantries. I think it is also cheap when people go to
The little free libraries taking books to sell. Also people who cherry pick things from free piles to sell and then brag about it.
Avoiding basic maintenance - skipping car servicing, dental check-ups, insurance, appliance maintenance, or home repairs
Arguing over tiny amounts, “forgetting” to pay people back, under-contributing to group gifts, or ordering more than everyone else and then insisting the bill be split evenly.
Choosing the cheapest option, even when it ruins the experience