Irresponsible parents | a reader question
A reader emailed me this story and asked if I'd share it for reader input, and I said, "Of course!"
I’m wondering if you and/or your readers have any advice for how to handle it when family asks for money.
My parents (now in their 70s) are extremely financially irresponsible. To name a few things, they have no retirement savings/income (Social Security only), lost their home to foreclosure about 10 years ago, have had multiple cars repossessed, and are nearly evicted from their apartment multiple times a year.
They have “managed” their money like this for as long as I (now 44) can remember, even when my dad was making what most people would call pretty good money. My sister (now 42) and I both remember utilities being regularly disconnected, bounced checks everywhere, cars being repossessed, and not being allowed to answer the phone because it was likely a collections agency.
Meanwhile, my mom regularly got her nails done, my dad subscribed to multiple cable packages, they got new furniture and appliances every few years, and ate out a lot. They were constantly asking their parents for money. My only aunt has also given them money multiple times over the years.
Things were better for a while when they received modest inheritances after their parents all passed away, but that money is long gone.
Over the past 10 years, my husband and I, along with my sister and her wife, have spent thousands of dollars on their expenses. I’m almost finished paying off a personal loan I took out to help them.
Finally, two years ago, when we spent nearly $4,000.00 at one time to keep them from being evicted, get their power turned back on, and catch up on some other things, all four of us told them that it was absolutely the last time, and that we could not continue to pay their bills.
At that time, my sister offered to help manage their finances and help them set up a realistic budget. They said their budget was none of her business. I offered to pay for them to attend a financial management class and/or help them get set up with a self-help credit union. They said if I had money for that, I should have money to help with their bills. They didn’t speak to us for about a year after that.
None of us is wealthy. My husband and I both work for the local government, so our jobs are stable and we will both have a fairly good retirement, but they are not high-paying. We live a somewhat frugal lifestyle (not saying we’re perfect at it, but we aren’t spending extravagantly). My sister and S-I-L have higher-paying jobs than we do, but won’t have the same retirement benefits we do. They’re also renting and are currently saving for a house. They also don’t spend extravagantly (again, not perfect, but definitely sensible). Meanwhile, my parents have newer furniture and appliances than any of us do. I know because they listed me as a contact, so I get the calls from the rent-to-own place when they pay late.
During that year, they asked my aunt (who they hadn’t spoken to in several years after she told them she couldn’t keep giving them money) for money to move to another apartment when they were being evicted. She gave them the money, but told them it was absolutely the last time. They haven’t spoken to her since then.
At the end of May, they called us, frantic for money because they were about to be evicted, their Wi-Fi was turned off, and they needed new cellphones. All told, they were asking for around $2,500.00 and needed it within 24 hours.
We finally managed to pry from them that the “need” for new cellphones stemmed from being sent to collections with their current carrier, and they didn’t want to switch to a pay-as-you-go plan because they didn’t want to change their phone numbers. They said they need Wi-Fi to go online and pay bills. And they would be served with eviction papers if the rent wasn’t paid.
The four of us (sister, S-I-L, hubby, and I) talked and offered them the following plans:
1. We would buy them each a StraightTalk flip phone and a month of service (we couldn’t see a legitimate need for Wi-Fi if they can’t afford it, and thought it would help cut down on all the subscriptions and games they buy). They live literally across the street from a public library that allows Wi-Fi use.) We would catch up their rent, on the condition that they immediately allow my sister to take over managing their finances. She was going to open a separate account and pay their bills that way.
2. We would buy each of them a StraightTalk flip phone and a month of service. They could move in with my sister and S-I-L (we would handle all moving expenses) for up to six months (with some house rules in place) while their cat stayed with my husband and me (we’d handle all of his expenses/care) on the condition that they immediately allow my sister to take over managing their finances, with the plan that the vast majority of their income would go into savings for deposits, emergency fund, etc.
We told them that, as we had before, we are not in a financial position to spend that kind of money every time they call, and that the only way we could do it again was with a clear plan in place so it wouldn’t happen again.
We put everything in writing and gave them a deadline to either accept one of the offers or decline our help.
They sent a pretty nasty text that they had gone to their church for help because they weren’t about to hand over control of their lives and finances to their children, and said it was very hateful/selfish of us to expect them to change their phone numbers. They also sent a picture of the eviction papers they were served before their church helped them. They haven’t spoken to any of us since then. Part of me feels like we did the right thing, and part of me feels sick, and like we are truly terrible, selfish, hateful people.
I am sure, whether it’s in a few months or a year, they will call again with something similar. So, my questions are:
Are we doing the right thing, or are we being selfish/horrible? Is there a better way to handle it? Is there a way that we’re just missing to help them learn how to manage their money? Or is this just a lather, rinse, repeat that we’ll be dealing with for the rest of their lives?
Oh my, I'm so sorry that you and your family are dealing with this frustrating, guilt-tripping, manipulative behavior from people who are unwilling to take accountability.
I will leave most of the responding up to readers, but I will share something that I learned from having stayed too long in a situation, believing that it would change: if someone has been given a zillion chances and has still not changed, odds are extremely good that they will never change.
So, it is a waste of energy to keep trying to help them change/improve. You have to practice some radical acceptance around the fact that these people are probably going to be this way until their last breath.
Peace only comes when you completely retire from trying to change them and instead focus on what you will and will not accept. You communicate that, and the other party gets to decide how they will operate.
It sounds like your parents decided to respond to your offer in a manipulative, guilt-tripping way, but that does not mean you did anything wrong. Their response is about them, not about you. You have been more than reasonable, and you have helped repeatedly.
You made a good-faith effort to help, they were not willing to accept the terms, and they made the decision to cut you off. That's on them, not on you, and if I were in your shoes, I would respond exactly the same way next time they come asking for money. It won't change them, but it will prevent you from getting suckered into pouring money into a hopeless cause.
Oh! One more thing: many years ago, my therapist gave me a helpful tip. When you are trying to figure out if someone's behavior is toxic, flip it, and ask yourself, "If I behaved that way, would I think my behavior was ok?" That usually clears it up.
(I already know there's no way you'd behave the way your parents are behaving.)
Sending you a hug!
Years ago, we had a relative that was taking money from my elderly MIL on a regular basis. Spent $ on going out to eat, never curbed their spending, accrued a lot of debt, including a line of credit co signed by my MIL. Finally, we convinced MIL to let us take over her finances due to that and her giving a lot to a variety of charities. We froze the line of credit and started to pay it off. That relative stopped speaking to us for several years, but it did eventually turn into them being more fiscally responsible once there was no where else to turn. We are speaking again, and ironically, they are now helping to support another relative.
So, I think instead of changing the behavior of the person taking the money, we changed the behavior of the person giving the money, and it took years, but it worked itself out.
I have no advice, I think Kristen did a great job of handling that. I am sorry your parents have put you and your family between a rock and a hard place. There is no indication that your parents want to change so I think you will just have to hold on and stick to your convictions. It will be painful and I am glad that you are not alone in this (as in you have your hubby, sister, and SIL). I hope that someday your parents hit a not too painful bottom and see the light.
Sorry to hear about such a tough situation. It definitely sounds toxic and manipulative. I agree with Kristen's advice, as it appears that the parents are both unlikely and unwilling to change. Still hard, though!
I agree with everything Kristen said. Your parents aren't looking to change their behavior. They're looking to avoid accountability. You have to decide how much you want to negatively impact your relationship with your husband to keep propping them up. I'd be livid if my husband kept asking me to bail out his irresponsible and narcissistic parents.
You're NOT being selfish! You know the right thing to do here.
Such an unfortunate situation you have been forced into through no fault of your own. If this type of behavior has been going on since you were a child, it is very unlikely it will change now. Do not feel guilty when you don’t enable their behavior by bailing them out!
Dear Fellow Reader; I am so sorry you are dealing with this. And no, you are not wrong to take a firm stand along with the support of your husband, sister, and SIL. Your terms are more than reasonable but you are not dealing with reasonable parents. I urge you to write down your reasonable boundaries and stick to them. A wise counselor taught me that writing them down helps to make you stick with those boundaries. My only sister and her family chose estrangement from me over my refusal to continue a financial conundrum with her daughter. So I know it is hard and it hurts. But I believe you will feel much support from this community. You are very brave and dealing well with an impossible situation.
Unfortunately I totally understand what you (reader) are going through and am so grateful there is another sibling to help share the emotional burden with. I 1000% agree with the boundaries and line in the sand as well as with Kristen that they are not going to change. My husband is an only child and has dealt with this behavior and his mom his whole life. Its all he knew growing up but over the 2nd half of his life he has really seen these behaviors from the responsible adult outsider perspective and really tried to help educate and change way.. to no success. What we have been dealing with over the past few years would be a total post hijack, but know that someone is on your side.
Self-preservation is NOT selfish. You've every right to look to your own needs and security first, especially when dealing with people who refuse to tend to their own. If your parents only ever contact you about money and have focused your relationship on the same--not even a "happy birthday" phone call, "This great thing happened," "Was just thinking about you," etc.--I'd consider not hearing from at all them a bonus.
I am truly sorry for the situation you and your husband, your siblings and aunt are in. It is terrible and draining to feel conflicting emotions, including shame for your parent's behaviour.
The situation you are sketching is not about what your course of action should be; I can read between the lines that you know that already, and that perhaps you need support from neutral outsiders more than anything else. It is YOUR budget that does not have to be discussed: whether you and your husband (and your sister and SIL) have sufficient income, debts, savings, plans, loans etc. It is irrelevant for the central topic.
What needs to be discussed is that your parents are laying the burden of their inability/unwillingness/irresponsibility on your shoulders, and are not accepting that you and your siblings and aunt (thank goodness you are all in one mind!!) are setting boundaries.
Unless there is a medical reason for your parent's behaviour that might make it advisable to have them put under financial guardianship of the state (not sure how it is called in the US), there is probably just one way out, and that is to respect your own boundaries even if they do not. Sadly, this may also mean taking measures in case the future estate turns out to be a pile of debts.
I wish you all a lot of strength and support of each other, both practical and in terms of your filial emotions.
Argh. such a long reply. What I really wanted to point out was that you do not have to condone what has become a pattern of exploitation, regardless of the financial position you are in yourself - no apologies or explanation are needed that you are taking a stand.
Again, hugs to you all-
No need to worry about their estate. Heirs do not inherit debts. If the estate can't pay (and no one co-signed) then the debt-holder is out of luck.
After years of being guilt tripped into paying for your parents frivolous/irresponsible lifestyle you and your family offered a sensible way out, and your parents chose to continue with the guilt - look here we had to go to church for help because of our nasty kids - which makes me feel very sorry for you and your sister. Your parents sound like narcissist which is the worst kind of parents that you can have. That you both turned into functioning human beings is a testament to your strength and resilience. I know this is hard but you did the right thing.
Ditto! Sometimes you learn the best life lessons from bad examples.
I am so sorry you have to deal with such mean and irresponsible behavior. I'm grateful that you and your sister both grew up and developed (somehow!) a healthier relationship to money for your own families' well being.
As I kept reading your submission, I was amazed at all the thoughtful, reasonable chances you (and sis) have offered, even after they responded in continued attempts to manipulate. You are not selfish. Their actions continue to show that they won't or can't form healthy relationships with money or with family. I second everything Kristen said at the end of the post. Hugs and strength to you!
“Reasonable” is the only way to describe how you, your sister, and your spouses have responded to these latest demands. Your parents have shown that they will continue to behave this way indefinitely and that they’re impervious to your interventions. You are not selfish—they are! It’s shocking that they could reach their 70s and still feel this level of entitlement about the resources of the people in their lives, but I agree with Kristen that this is about them. You are entitled to draw boundaries and protect yourself from their total misunderstanding about money and family.
I agree with everything that has been said here, by Kristen and in the comments. You've done an outstanding job of dealing rationally with incredibly irrational people. What I would add is to gently enquire whether you have tried therapy? I have to set boundaries with some extremely toxic family members and having a neutral therapist to support my boundaries and suggest new ways of processing the guilt they heap on me has been a game changer.
This is excellent advice. You already told them “never again”, and you haven’t finished paying off the loan you took out to help them before. This cycle will continue forever if you let it. Also, I gently suggest that any plan that involves your sister managing their money will be a huge source of ongoing stress and work for her, and open her up to even more demands and fights. It sounds like they will definitely not just let her make the decisions without constant arguments.
Listen to Kristen. She says it all.
You can not teach a pig to fly…you will just annoy the pig. That being said, always lovingly give. If you don’t feel joy after giving, stop giving.
I hope you'll forgive me for being blunt, I do not have Kristen's gift of writing kindness and empathy.
BOUNDARIES.
You need to stand by the boundaries you are trying to set. When someone tries to set boundaries in a relationship that didn't have them, the other guys will push back. Hard. It's working for them, why should they agree to a change? It will be up to you to be "mean" and hold firm. It's going to be painful, it's going to hurt, and they will try to turn others against you. There will be an "extinction event" when towards the end (if you hold firm) that they push back even harder.
If you give in, they know that their tactics work and they'll keep doing them. The longer to resist before giving in, the more they learn to keep on using their hateful tactics till you give in.
Speaking of mean - what kind of parents insist on endangering their children's futures for their immediate, irresponsible wants?
Hang in there, stay strong, it'll get worse before it gets better and we will be here to help you.
Also: don't engage. That just gives them a handle to argue over. Say "no" or say "yes if you do these things" and don't say anything further. When they argue and manipulate, literally repeat what you said at first. Lather, rinse, repeat.
To me, another problem with offering a deal iso that them you need to be part of their lives. To be honest, that doesn't sound healthy for you. Perhaps you could find a therapist or minister to help you with this? It's a huge thing to have to deal with.
This is such a painful situation! What horrifies me in your story the most is that, even after all that has happened, you are questioning if YOU are being selfish and horrible. How did they manage to manipulate you in such a way that this thought even crosses your mind? It’s 100% obvious who is being selfish and horrible. And if you are struggling with sorting this through, perhaps a few sessions with a therapist would be a more worthy use for your money than helping these awful people who absolutely do not want to be helped.
I am not a therapist of any kind, but your parents' behavior sounds like Narcissistic Personality Disorder. If you read up on it, you will find that they are definitely the problem and not you. Other people's bad behavior is about them, not you. They will not change.
If they have cut you out of their life, I think it would be wise to honor their wishes.
Good luck.
I agree with what the other commenters have said--but I was going to bring up NPD if Kristin hadn't. Personality disorders don't change without the kind of commitment to change that the original reader's parents clearly don't have. (I'm not a therapist either, but in my working life, I copyedited more books on personality disorders than I could shake a stick at.) I wish the original reader and her responsible family members all the best, and I agree with others that taking a hard line with the parents seems like the only option.
Agreed with Kristen and everyone else. I would only add that you should investigate their local laws regarding how debts are handled when they pass. This would be another reason not to co-sign anything as those debts would persist. And you may want to start saving for their funeral expenses and some amount to deal with settling their estate. Given your description, they likely don't have a will and would need to go through probate. All of this might be worth getting a financial advisor for yourselves on the best way to protect and prepare yourselves.
Sending you compassion and courage. What a hard situation. <3
Were I in a similar situation, I'm not sure I would involve myself in settling the estate. Sounds like an awful job with no upsides. That said, I don't know the legal repercussions of not dealing with it. I'm not even sure of one is obligated to be executor if one hasn't agreed to it.
I would check with the laws of your particular state to determine what, if any, obligations you may have upon their death. They differ from state to state. Depending on what you find, you may want to consult an elder law attorney.
I have a friend who wisely has put aside enough money to cover end of life expenses (cremation, etc.) for her mother (now with dementia and in a Medicaid nursing facility). She saw the writing on the wall years ago.
I think, as hard as it feels, that you need to give yourselves a break. Try to look at the issue in a different way. From all that you’ve shared, your parents are NOT your people. Spend a minute to feel sorry for them, realize they most likely will not change. Seek peace for yourselves, no more stress from them. Maybe change YOUR phone number?
Wat everyone has said, ditto! I am a church member, and we have struggled to deal with people who take us for granted. We do wise up, and require some applicants to complete a money management class. Sometimes it works! It is hard to deal with takers like your parents. You have done plenty. It’s ok to call it quits on that game.
My thought on this situation is something I heard a long time ago: Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results.
Please don't feel any guilt at all. You have done the best you could. I am sorry your parents put you in this situation.
I totally agree with all the responses - I doubt any of the commentariat will say anything that does not support your hard won position of cutting off these irresponsible, manipulative relatives. I know it is hard to take a stand especially when they are so good at trying to induce guilt.
I have been in a similar but different position with a lifelong friend who has made terrible financial and life decisions but always seems to find people to rescue her. Over the years I have occasionally been one such person. Although she never directly asks for money and is always grateful - her poor financial and life decisions have often put her in a position that she desperately needs financial or other help. I have helped with practical things - paying for a fence so she can dog sit for money, helping her children with a specific financial need because she can’t, helping her clean out her garage or house, and being generous in other ways. She is a good person and I think would help me in ways other than financial if I needed it. Over the years I have had angst at watching her suffer - she is very good at indirectly soliciting help. Once I asked a friend if I should just give her a large financial contribution. My friend was horrified and said “Are you kidding?! That would be like giving a drunk a drink!”. I took her good advice. I have retreated from being on the front lines of being her rescuer and have discovered that she has found others to fill that role. I still am nominally generous by treating occasionally. But her financial neediness and need for being rescued is a pattern that is so ingrained in her psyche (Why not? It works!) it will never change.
This is a complete reversal of a parent child relationship they are acting like children. You have tried in good faith to help them several times you do not need to worry about this any more. You have tried your best, they need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions. I just wonder if their is an underlying problem in their lives. Sending best wishes
1000% not selfish - cut the ties - pray for them and LET THEM. You all have gone above and beyond for way too long. Good luck.
To me, when people ask you for money multiple times and involve you in their financial drama, then their finances ARE your business! I'm so sorry that you've been caught up in this for so long. I think you've done more than most people would have done. And shame on your parents for putting you all on this position. They obviously don't care about the financial position they put you in! It sounds like they haven't learned the basic difference between needs and wants. I support everything you've done. You are not awful people -- you are sensible people who have been pushed to their limit by ungrateful parents. Perhaps them reaching out to their church for help will make something click. The church may ask questions about their budget and finances. Their church may suggest the same things you have. Maybe they just need to hear it from somebody outside their family. Problem drinkers often don't change til they hit rock bottom. Perhaps this will be your parents' wake up call. We can only hope.
Oh, this is so hard and I'm sorry you're dealing with it - but you and your sister are doing the exact right thing. It really stinks that doing the right thing is often the hardest.
Something you and your sister might want to hash out is your plan for when they get the final eviction notice and are on the streets. You should probably have plans in place with multiple contingencies - poor health, one in long term care while the other is independent, and etc. You should definitely find a lawyer who can help you understand the laws in your state for making sure your finances remain separate from your parents - should they become incapacitated and you decide to step in. Your plans could be as simple as pointing them to the services their community offers, or having a lawyer retained and documents already drawn up and ready to go. But you need to have this scenario already thought through before the situation arrives and panic takes over.
I suspect that they might start church hopping to access help so you and your sister may also want to have a designated script ready for the inevitable, "I'm pastor so-and-so and your parents are here because they need their power turned on and you know what the Bible says...." phone call.
Sending all the gentle hugs.
Oooh. Great advice.
I'm so sorry that you've had this to deal with. Please notice the use of "had" and please refuse to deal with the situation any longer. Writing from personal experience, this type of person, whether family or not, will never change and will only continue to hound you for money. Cut them off and please ignore the guilt trip attempt. Really; do not engage! It's their life, not yours. Do not ruin yours, your spouse's, your children's lives to assist someone who is greedy, selfish, demanding, irresponsible, horrible, (you get the idea). And don't tell yourself that they're your parents and, therefore, you're required to help them because that's not how it works. They're adults and can choose how to live their lives–so let them and live your's separately.
I wrote this without reading anyone else's comments because this is truly how I feel and think.
I wish you the best, and peace for your's and your sister's families.
Much like with raising children, if you don't stick to your boundaries, the lesson will never be learned. When I was dealing with struggles with my father's dementia and he and my mom were making not-great decisions, someone told me "Your parents have the right to make decisions that you know are bad". That meant that I had to watch them struggle and be in an unsafe situation, despite knowing that we kids could and would gladly have helped them out. You are most definitely doing the right thing, but it's a very painful process. So sorry that you are experiencing this.
My heart breaks for this dear reader. I am proud that you and your sister made different choices in your lives despite not having a good example.
Oh my dear woman I am so sorry that your family is going through this. You have done nothing wrong. You [and your aunt and sister/sil] have done far more than you parents deserve. They are behaving like spoiled children [always have it seems] and obviously have no interest in changing.
There is no reason to cause yourselves harm to keep helping someone who will NOT help themselves.
Interestingly my 23 yo daughter was expressing frustration to me last night about a friend [same age - with a college degree] who was venting to her about roommate issues. From a roommate who is letting her stay RENT FREE in her manhattan apartment. And my daughter, like you, asked if she was being unkind by not offering her a place to stay [in my suburban home - which she knows I would not agree to - wasn't pushing just asking like you for perspective] and I told her that there's no way to help someone with that sort of entitlement ideal - the world owes me a living - the life I WANT [dont' change my phone, don't have anyone involved in telling me what to do, don't want to live with a budget at all just want what I want when I want it - you pay!]. You can't fix this. You don't need to apologize for working hard to live responsibly. You've offered all the useful help anyone could and they've turned it down - THEY made that choice - not you! So you've done enough now. But I'm sorry for how you feel - living in the gray is never easy but it's really the only option there is in the real world.
Endorsing everything Kristen and the others have said. Your parents are manipulating you and taking no responsibility for their actions. You all have been used and abused too long. I'd recommend telling any store or business that contacts you on their hehalf that you were not asked about it and cannot help them. All the fault is on your parents, not you and your sibling.
Please stay strong! I know it's not easy ( I had a similar situation with a child and he cut us out for 3 yrs) but it's for the best.