Irresponsible parents | a reader question
A reader emailed me this story and asked if I'd share it for reader input, and I said, "Of course!"
I’m wondering if you and/or your readers have any advice for how to handle it when family asks for money.
My parents (now in their 70s) are extremely financially irresponsible. To name a few things, they have no retirement savings/income (Social Security only), lost their home to foreclosure about 10 years ago, have had multiple cars repossessed, and are nearly evicted from their apartment multiple times a year.
They have “managed” their money like this for as long as I (now 44) can remember, even when my dad was making what most people would call pretty good money. My sister (now 42) and I both remember utilities being regularly disconnected, bounced checks everywhere, cars being repossessed, and not being allowed to answer the phone because it was likely a collections agency.
Meanwhile, my mom regularly got her nails done, my dad subscribed to multiple cable packages, they got new furniture and appliances every few years, and ate out a lot. They were constantly asking their parents for money. My only aunt has also given them money multiple times over the years.
Things were better for a while when they received modest inheritances after their parents all passed away, but that money is long gone.
Over the past 10 years, my husband and I, along with my sister and her wife, have spent thousands of dollars on their expenses. I’m almost finished paying off a personal loan I took out to help them.
Finally, two years ago, when we spent nearly $4,000.00 at one time to keep them from being evicted, get their power turned back on, and catch up on some other things, all four of us told them that it was absolutely the last time, and that we could not continue to pay their bills.
At that time, my sister offered to help manage their finances and help them set up a realistic budget. They said their budget was none of her business. I offered to pay for them to attend a financial management class and/or help them get set up with a self-help credit union. They said if I had money for that, I should have money to help with their bills. They didn’t speak to us for about a year after that.
None of us is wealthy. My husband and I both work for the local government, so our jobs are stable and we will both have a fairly good retirement, but they are not high-paying. We live a somewhat frugal lifestyle (not saying we’re perfect at it, but we aren’t spending extravagantly). My sister and S-I-L have higher-paying jobs than we do, but won’t have the same retirement benefits we do. They’re also renting and are currently saving for a house. They also don’t spend extravagantly (again, not perfect, but definitely sensible). Meanwhile, my parents have newer furniture and appliances than any of us do. I know because they listed me as a contact, so I get the calls from the rent-to-own place when they pay late.
During that year, they asked my aunt (who they hadn’t spoken to in several years after she told them she couldn’t keep giving them money) for money to move to another apartment when they were being evicted. She gave them the money, but told them it was absolutely the last time. They haven’t spoken to her since then.
At the end of May, they called us, frantic for money because they were about to be evicted, their Wi-Fi was turned off, and they needed new cellphones. All told, they were asking for around $2,500.00 and needed it within 24 hours.
We finally managed to pry from them that the “need” for new cellphones stemmed from being sent to collections with their current carrier, and they didn’t want to switch to a pay-as-you-go plan because they didn’t want to change their phone numbers. They said they need Wi-Fi to go online and pay bills. And they would be served with eviction papers if the rent wasn’t paid.
The four of us (sister, S-I-L, hubby, and I) talked and offered them the following plans:
1. We would buy them each a StraightTalk flip phone and a month of service (we couldn’t see a legitimate need for Wi-Fi if they can’t afford it, and thought it would help cut down on all the subscriptions and games they buy). They live literally across the street from a public library that allows Wi-Fi use.) We would catch up their rent, on the condition that they immediately allow my sister to take over managing their finances. She was going to open a separate account and pay their bills that way.
2. We would buy each of them a StraightTalk flip phone and a month of service. They could move in with my sister and S-I-L (we would handle all moving expenses) for up to six months (with some house rules in place) while their cat stayed with my husband and me (we’d handle all of his expenses/care) on the condition that they immediately allow my sister to take over managing their finances, with the plan that the vast majority of their income would go into savings for deposits, emergency fund, etc.
We told them that, as we had before, we are not in a financial position to spend that kind of money every time they call, and that the only way we could do it again was with a clear plan in place so it wouldn’t happen again.
We put everything in writing and gave them a deadline to either accept one of the offers or decline our help.
They sent a pretty nasty text that they had gone to their church for help because they weren’t about to hand over control of their lives and finances to their children, and said it was very hateful/selfish of us to expect them to change their phone numbers. They also sent a picture of the eviction papers they were served before their church helped them. They haven’t spoken to any of us since then. Part of me feels like we did the right thing, and part of me feels sick, and like we are truly terrible, selfish, hateful people.
I am sure, whether it’s in a few months or a year, they will call again with something similar. So, my questions are:
Are we doing the right thing, or are we being selfish/horrible? Is there a better way to handle it? Is there a way that we’re just missing to help them learn how to manage their money? Or is this just a lather, rinse, repeat that we’ll be dealing with for the rest of their lives?
Oh my, I'm so sorry that you and your family are dealing with this frustrating, guilt-tripping, manipulative behavior from people who are unwilling to take accountability.
I will leave most of the responding up to readers, but I will share something that I learned from having stayed too long in a situation, believing that it would change: if someone has been given a zillion chances and has still not changed, odds are extremely good that they will never change.
So, it is a waste of energy to keep trying to help them change/improve. You have to practice some radical acceptance around the fact that these people are probably going to be this way until their last breath.
Peace only comes when you completely retire from trying to change them and instead focus on what you will and will not accept. You communicate that, and the other party gets to decide how they will operate.
It sounds like your parents decided to respond to your offer in a manipulative, guilt-tripping way, but that does not mean you did anything wrong. Their response is about them, not about you. You have been more than reasonable, and you have helped repeatedly.
You made a good-faith effort to help, they were not willing to accept the terms, and they made the decision to cut you off. That's on them, not on you, and if I were in your shoes, I would respond exactly the same way next time they come asking for money. It won't change them, but it will prevent you from getting suckered into pouring money into a hopeless cause.
Oh! One more thing: many years ago, my therapist gave me a helpful tip. When you are trying to figure out if someone's behavior is toxic, flip it, and ask yourself, "If I behaved that way, would I think my behavior was ok?" That usually clears it up.
(I already know there's no way you'd behave the way your parents are behaving.)
Sending you a hug!
Years ago, we had a relative that was taking money from my elderly MIL on a regular basis. Spent $ on going out to eat, never curbed their spending, accrued a lot of debt, including a line of credit co signed by my MIL. Finally, we convinced MIL to let us take over her finances due to that and her giving a lot to a variety of charities. We froze the line of credit and started to pay it off. That relative stopped speaking to us for several years, but it did eventually turn into them being more fiscally responsible once there was no where else to turn. We are speaking again, and ironically, they are now helping to support another relative.
So, I think instead of changing the behavior of the person taking the money, we changed the behavior of the person giving the money, and it took years, but it worked itself out.
I have no advice, I think Kristen did a great job of handling that. I am sorry your parents have put you and your family between a rock and a hard place. There is no indication that your parents want to change so I think you will just have to hold on and stick to your convictions. It will be painful and I am glad that you are not alone in this (as in you have your hubby, sister, and SIL). I hope that someday your parents hit a not too painful bottom and see the light.
Having created a reasonable plan and having offered it to them, continuing that offer any time it’s needed is reasonable. “Teaching them to fish” is the only way to avoid them moving into the future.
Having several toxic family members that I’m still learning how to healthily interact with and avoid being dumped on, I encourage you to stand your ground and be at peace with the reality that they have means to supply their necessities and many of their wants. *You* dont have to supply their wants or bail them out when they don’t choose to spend their “allowance” wisely.
(Hugs to you all….it’s hard)
Sorry to hear about such a tough situation. It definitely sounds toxic and manipulative. I agree with Kristen's advice, as it appears that the parents are both unlikely and unwilling to change. Still hard, though!
I agree with everything Kristen said. Your parents aren't looking to change their behavior. They're looking to avoid accountability. You have to decide how much you want to negatively impact your relationship with your husband to keep propping them up. I'd be livid if my husband kept asking me to bail out his irresponsible and narcissistic parents.
You're NOT being selfish! You know the right thing to do here.
Such an unfortunate situation you have been forced into through no fault of your own. If this type of behavior has been going on since you were a child, it is very unlikely it will change now. Do not feel guilty when you don’t enable their behavior by bailing them out!
Dear Fellow Reader; I am so sorry you are dealing with this. And no, you are not wrong to take a firm stand along with the support of your husband, sister, and SIL. Your terms are more than reasonable but you are not dealing with reasonable parents. I urge you to write down your reasonable boundaries and stick to them. A wise counselor taught me that writing them down helps to make you stick with those boundaries. My only sister and her family chose estrangement from me over my refusal to continue a financial conundrum with her daughter. So I know it is hard and it hurts. But I believe you will feel much support from this community. You are very brave and dealing well with an impossible situation.
Beautifully said, Nancy!!
Unfortunately I totally understand what you (reader) are going through and am so grateful there is another sibling to help share the emotional burden with. I 1000% agree with the boundaries and line in the sand as well as with Kristen that they are not going to change. My husband is an only child and has dealt with this behavior and his mom his whole life. Its all he knew growing up but over the 2nd half of his life he has really seen these behaviors from the responsible adult outsider perspective and really tried to help educate and change way.. to no success. What we have been dealing with over the past few years would be a total post hijack, but know that someone is on your side.
Self-preservation is NOT selfish. You've every right to look to your own needs and security first, especially when dealing with people who refuse to tend to their own. If your parents only ever contact you about money and have focused your relationship on the same--not even a "happy birthday" phone call, "This great thing happened," "Was just thinking about you," etc.--I'd consider not hearing from at all them a bonus.
I am truly sorry for the situation you and your husband, your siblings and aunt are in. It is terrible and draining to feel conflicting emotions, including shame for your parent's behaviour.
The situation you are sketching is not about what your course of action should be; I can read between the lines that you know that already, and that perhaps you need support from neutral outsiders more than anything else. It is YOUR budget that does not have to be discussed: whether you and your husband (and your sister and SIL) have sufficient income, debts, savings, plans, loans etc. It is irrelevant for the central topic.
What needs to be discussed is that your parents are laying the burden of their inability/unwillingness/irresponsibility on your shoulders, and are not accepting that you and your siblings and aunt (thank goodness you are all in one mind!!) are setting boundaries.
Unless there is a medical reason for your parent's behaviour that might make it advisable to have them put under financial guardianship of the state (not sure how it is called in the US), there is probably just one way out, and that is to respect your own boundaries even if they do not. Sadly, this may also mean taking measures in case the future estate turns out to be a pile of debts.
I wish you all a lot of strength and support of each other, both practical and in terms of your filial emotions.
Argh. such a long reply. What I really wanted to point out was that you do not have to condone what has become a pattern of exploitation, regardless of the financial position you are in yourself - no apologies or explanation are needed that you are taking a stand.
Again, hugs to you all-
JNL, bravo!!
Not too long at all-really thoughtful and helpful, I'd say. 🙂
No need to worry about their estate. Heirs do not inherit debts. If the estate can't pay (and no one co-signed) then the debt-holder is out of luck.
Keep on top of your own credit report, to make sure they are not using your names and information for themselves.
Tell the rent-to-own place that you do not agree to be a contact and to remove you from all your parents' records. I suspect that business is quite familiar with this pattern of behavior.
I would go so far as to lock your credit, so that they couldn't add you as a cosigner without your permission.
Ooh! That is a relief.
That is different here in NL. Simply said (there are exceptions) if you accept the inheritance (including furniture, grandma's clock etc) you accept the debt. One of the exceptions is photo albums, but you have to prove you did not take away anything of monetary value.
JNL, THIS! “ It is YOUR budget that does not have to be discussed”.
JNL is spot on. You need to break the cycle, and it isn't for a lack of TRYING to help them. You are a good person for trying. Tell them you would love to still be involved in their life but money is no longer a topic you will discuss with them.
After years of being guilt tripped into paying for your parents frivolous/irresponsible lifestyle you and your family offered a sensible way out, and your parents chose to continue with the guilt - look here we had to go to church for help because of our nasty kids - which makes me feel very sorry for you and your sister. Your parents sound like narcissist which is the worst kind of parents that you can have. That you both turned into functioning human beings is a testament to your strength and resilience. I know this is hard but you did the right thing.
Ditto! Sometimes you learn the best life lessons from bad examples.
I’m guessing they told the church this was the first time this had happened, all the reasons it wasn’t their fault etc. I reckon the church will take a different view when they receive the 5th ‘emergency’ request for help and if the pattern of behaviour holds, your parents will find a new church and bitch about the terrible selfish people at the old church.
I am so sorry you have to deal with such mean and irresponsible behavior. I'm grateful that you and your sister both grew up and developed (somehow!) a healthier relationship to money for your own families' well being.
As I kept reading your submission, I was amazed at all the thoughtful, reasonable chances you (and sis) have offered, even after they responded in continued attempts to manipulate. You are not selfish. Their actions continue to show that they won't or can't form healthy relationships with money or with family. I second everything Kristen said at the end of the post. Hugs and strength to you!
“Reasonable” is the only way to describe how you, your sister, and your spouses have responded to these latest demands. Your parents have shown that they will continue to behave this way indefinitely and that they’re impervious to your interventions. You are not selfish—they are! It’s shocking that they could reach their 70s and still feel this level of entitlement about the resources of the people in their lives, but I agree with Kristen that this is about them. You are entitled to draw boundaries and protect yourself from their total misunderstanding about money and family.
I agree with everything that has been said here, by Kristen and in the comments. You've done an outstanding job of dealing rationally with incredibly irrational people. What I would add is to gently enquire whether you have tried therapy? I have to set boundaries with some extremely toxic family members and having a neutral therapist to support my boundaries and suggest new ways of processing the guilt they heap on me has been a game changer.
This is excellent advice. You already told them “never again”, and you haven’t finished paying off the loan you took out to help them before. This cycle will continue forever if you let it. Also, I gently suggest that any plan that involves your sister managing their money will be a huge source of ongoing stress and work for her, and open her up to even more demands and fights. It sounds like they will definitely not just let her make the decisions without constant arguments.
Listen to Kristen. She says it all.
You can not teach a pig to fly…you will just annoy the pig. That being said, always lovingly give. If you don’t feel joy after giving, stop giving.
I hope you'll forgive me for being blunt, I do not have Kristen's gift of writing kindness and empathy.
BOUNDARIES.
You need to stand by the boundaries you are trying to set. When someone tries to set boundaries in a relationship that didn't have them, the other guys will push back. Hard. It's working for them, why should they agree to a change? It will be up to you to be "mean" and hold firm. It's going to be painful, it's going to hurt, and they will try to turn others against you. There will be an "extinction event" when towards the end (if you hold firm) that they push back even harder.
If you give in, they know that their tactics work and they'll keep doing them. The longer to resist before giving in, the more they learn to keep on using their hateful tactics till you give in.
Speaking of mean - what kind of parents insist on endangering their children's futures for their immediate, irresponsible wants?
Hang in there, stay strong, it'll get worse before it gets better and we will be here to help you.
Also: don't engage. That just gives them a handle to argue over. Say "no" or say "yes if you do these things" and don't say anything further. When they argue and manipulate, literally repeat what you said at first. Lather, rinse, repeat.
To me, another problem with offering a deal iso that them you need to be part of their lives. To be honest, that doesn't sound healthy for you. Perhaps you could find a therapist or minister to help you with this? It's a huge thing to have to deal with.
> To me, another problem with offering a deal iso that them you need to be part of their lives.
Louder for the folks in the back!
@WilliamB, I admire your blunt truth approach. Kristen is so diplomatic, so with your words as a balance, maybe our Fellow Reader can find the gumption to push through the painful manipulating exploitive events that are sure to continue. She has a large cheering section behind her on this blog. It is fantastic that she and her sister turned out sensibly.
Thank you. It is amazing, and awe-inspiring, how the kids turned out. Sometimes it's not nature-or-nurture?, it's despite nature-or-nurture.
This is such a painful situation! What horrifies me in your story the most is that, even after all that has happened, you are questioning if YOU are being selfish and horrible. How did they manage to manipulate you in such a way that this thought even crosses your mind? It’s 100% obvious who is being selfish and horrible. And if you are struggling with sorting this through, perhaps a few sessions with a therapist would be a more worthy use for your money than helping these awful people who absolutely do not want to be helped.
I am not a therapist of any kind, but your parents' behavior sounds like Narcissistic Personality Disorder. If you read up on it, you will find that they are definitely the problem and not you. Other people's bad behavior is about them, not you. They will not change.
If they have cut you out of their life, I think it would be wise to honor their wishes.
Good luck.
I agree with what the other commenters have said--but I was going to bring up NPD if Kristin hadn't. Personality disorders don't change without the kind of commitment to change that the original reader's parents clearly don't have. (I'm not a therapist either, but in my working life, I copyedited more books on personality disorders than I could shake a stick at.) I wish the original reader and her responsible family members all the best, and I agree with others that taking a hard line with the parents seems like the only option.
Agreed with Kristen and everyone else. I would only add that you should investigate their local laws regarding how debts are handled when they pass. This would be another reason not to co-sign anything as those debts would persist. And you may want to start saving for their funeral expenses and some amount to deal with settling their estate. Given your description, they likely don't have a will and would need to go through probate. All of this might be worth getting a financial advisor for yourselves on the best way to protect and prepare yourselves.
Sending you compassion and courage. What a hard situation. <3
Were I in a similar situation, I'm not sure I would involve myself in settling the estate. Sounds like an awful job with no upsides. That said, I don't know the legal repercussions of not dealing with it. I'm not even sure of one is obligated to be executor if one hasn't agreed to it.
I would check with the laws of your particular state to determine what, if any, obligations you may have upon their death. They differ from state to state. Depending on what you find, you may want to consult an elder law attorney.
I have a friend who wisely has put aside enough money to cover end of life expenses (cremation, etc.) for her mother (now with dementia and in a Medicaid nursing facility). She saw the writing on the wall years ago.
You'd likely have to go to court and request you be removed as executor. But given how the parents run their lives, I doubt they have a will.
Carla G. and William B.,
I had a friend whose sister was almost as bad as these parents. My friend's brother (who lived in the same state and was the estate executor) did not pay for the funeral; instead, he had the irresponsible sister (who, among many other transgressions, had even stolen from their late mom to buy illegal drugs) buried in a pauper's grave. My friend was not told about it until later, and when she got upset, her husband said it was all for the best. He was right!
In the UK we call them public health funerals, because it’s a public health issue to not deal with the body. The local council undertakes a basic cremation.
There’s a great book called We All Know How This Ends. UK based and written by two women in the funeral industry about the hard conversations to have and plans to make before you reach the urgent point. Also great advice on the UK rules.
I think, as hard as it feels, that you need to give yourselves a break. Try to look at the issue in a different way. From all that you’ve shared, your parents are NOT your people. Spend a minute to feel sorry for them, realize they most likely will not change. Seek peace for yourselves, no more stress from them. Maybe change YOUR phone number?
Wat everyone has said, ditto! I am a church member, and we have struggled to deal with people who take us for granted. We do wise up, and require some applicants to complete a money management class. Sometimes it works! It is hard to deal with takers like your parents. You have done plenty. It’s ok to call it quits on that game.
I wondered about the church help and how it was structured. The church, other relatives, and the community in general give the parents an audience to tell their story to their way, making the children out to be the bad guys. That adds extra painful pressure.
My thought on this situation is something I heard a long time ago: Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results.
Please don't feel any guilt at all. You have done the best you could. I am sorry your parents put you in this situation.
I totally agree with all the responses - I doubt any of the commentariat will say anything that does not support your hard won position of cutting off these irresponsible, manipulative relatives. I know it is hard to take a stand especially when they are so good at trying to induce guilt.
I have been in a similar but different position with a lifelong friend who has made terrible financial and life decisions but always seems to find people to rescue her. Over the years I have occasionally been one such person. Although she never directly asks for money and is always grateful - her poor financial and life decisions have often put her in a position that she desperately needs financial or other help. I have helped with practical things - paying for a fence so she can dog sit for money, helping her children with a specific financial need because she can’t, helping her clean out her garage or house, and being generous in other ways. She is a good person and I think would help me in ways other than financial if I needed it. Over the years I have had angst at watching her suffer - she is very good at indirectly soliciting help. Once I asked a friend if I should just give her a large financial contribution. My friend was horrified and said “Are you kidding?! That would be like giving a drunk a drink!”. I took her good advice. I have retreated from being on the front lines of being her rescuer and have discovered that she has found others to fill that role. I still am nominally generous by treating occasionally. But her financial neediness and need for being rescued is a pattern that is so ingrained in her psyche (Why not? It works!) it will never change.
This is a complete reversal of a parent child relationship they are acting like children. You have tried in good faith to help them several times you do not need to worry about this any more. You have tried your best, they need to grow up and take responsibility for their actions. I just wonder if their is an underlying problem in their lives. Sending best wishes
That’s what I was thinking - they’re putting you in the position of being the parents while they are the children. I have a complicated relationship with my parents in a different way than the one you’re describing, but I can say that the emotional effects of being a parentified child are real. If you can, consider speaking to a therapist to help manage your feelings around this? I’m hoping that the resounding response from readers helps alleviate any guilt though. You are doing the only thing you can do here.
1000% not selfish - cut the ties - pray for them and LET THEM. You all have gone above and beyond for way too long. Good luck.
To me, when people ask you for money multiple times and involve you in their financial drama, then their finances ARE your business! I'm so sorry that you've been caught up in this for so long. I think you've done more than most people would have done. And shame on your parents for putting you all on this position. They obviously don't care about the financial position they put you in! It sounds like they haven't learned the basic difference between needs and wants. I support everything you've done. You are not awful people -- you are sensible people who have been pushed to their limit by ungrateful parents. Perhaps them reaching out to their church for help will make something click. The church may ask questions about their budget and finances. Their church may suggest the same things you have. Maybe they just need to hear it from somebody outside their family. Problem drinkers often don't change til they hit rock bottom. Perhaps this will be your parents' wake up call. We can only hope.
I too am wondering how long it'll be before the church people wake up and smell the coffee (as Dear Abby used to say). But the parents will probably only seek out another church to leech on.
Oh, this is so hard and I'm sorry you're dealing with it - but you and your sister are doing the exact right thing. It really stinks that doing the right thing is often the hardest.
Something you and your sister might want to hash out is your plan for when they get the final eviction notice and are on the streets. You should probably have plans in place with multiple contingencies - poor health, one in long term care while the other is independent, and etc. You should definitely find a lawyer who can help you understand the laws in your state for making sure your finances remain separate from your parents - should they become incapacitated and you decide to step in. Your plans could be as simple as pointing them to the services their community offers, or having a lawyer retained and documents already drawn up and ready to go. But you need to have this scenario already thought through before the situation arrives and panic takes over.
I suspect that they might start church hopping to access help so you and your sister may also want to have a designated script ready for the inevitable, "I'm pastor so-and-so and your parents are here because they need their power turned on and you know what the Bible says...." phone call.
Sending all the gentle hugs.
Oooh. Great advice.
Yes, maybe you can talk to their pastor who’s giving them money? They should know about the written generous offer you guys gave before wasting the church’s financial resources. On the other hand, I’m not sure if coordinating with the church is getting too involved. If you’re a member too then go for it. But if the church reaches out to YOU, then certainly give them the whole story. When my brother requested food assistance from our church, I sent an email…I pointed out he was dying from liver failure and he was only eating like 1 chicken nugget a day.
As someone who worked for many years as a church administrator, church hopping is exactly what they will do. Most churches, if able, will help with a few smaller expenses and then recommend or require practical changes. Once an actual change of behavior is required, there's a period of intensified begging and guilt tripping, and then an angry flounce to another congregation. However, congregations do network and the flouncer often finds their reputation has proceeded them.
Wish I'd counted the number of times I got cussed out on the phone by people who thought St. Whatever was going to keep them on easy street!
Excellent advice on all counts, Sarah.
I'm so sorry that you've had this to deal with. Please notice the use of "had" and please refuse to deal with the situation any longer. Writing from personal experience, this type of person, whether family or not, will never change and will only continue to hound you for money. Cut them off and please ignore the guilt trip attempt. Really; do not engage! It's their life, not yours. Do not ruin yours, your spouse's, your children's lives to assist someone who is greedy, selfish, demanding, irresponsible, horrible, (you get the idea). And don't tell yourself that they're your parents and, therefore, you're required to help them because that's not how it works. They're adults and can choose how to live their lives–so let them and live your's separately.
I wrote this without reading anyone else's comments because this is truly how I feel and think.
I wish you the best, and peace for your's and your sister's families.
Much like with raising children, if you don't stick to your boundaries, the lesson will never be learned. When I was dealing with struggles with my father's dementia and he and my mom were making not-great decisions, someone told me "Your parents have the right to make decisions that you know are bad". That meant that I had to watch them struggle and be in an unsafe situation, despite knowing that we kids could and would gladly have helped them out. You are most definitely doing the right thing, but it's a very painful process. So sorry that you are experiencing this.
My heart breaks for this dear reader. I am proud that you and your sister made different choices in your lives despite not having a good example.
Oh my dear woman I am so sorry that your family is going through this. You have done nothing wrong. You [and your aunt and sister/sil] have done far more than you parents deserve. They are behaving like spoiled children [always have it seems] and obviously have no interest in changing.
There is no reason to cause yourselves harm to keep helping someone who will NOT help themselves.
Interestingly my 23 yo daughter was expressing frustration to me last night about a friend [same age - with a college degree] who was venting to her about roommate issues. From a roommate who is letting her stay RENT FREE in her manhattan apartment. And my daughter, like you, asked if she was being unkind by not offering her a place to stay [in my suburban home - which she knows I would not agree to - wasn't pushing just asking like you for perspective] and I told her that there's no way to help someone with that sort of entitlement ideal - the world owes me a living - the life I WANT [dont' change my phone, don't have anyone involved in telling me what to do, don't want to live with a budget at all just want what I want when I want it - you pay!]. You can't fix this. You don't need to apologize for working hard to live responsibly. You've offered all the useful help anyone could and they've turned it down - THEY made that choice - not you! So you've done enough now. But I'm sorry for how you feel - living in the gray is never easy but it's really the only option there is in the real world.
Endorsing everything Kristen and the others have said. Your parents are manipulating you and taking no responsibility for their actions. You all have been used and abused too long. I'd recommend telling any store or business that contacts you on their hehalf that you were not asked about it and cannot help them. All the fault is on your parents, not you and your sibling.
Please stay strong! I know it's not easy ( I had a similar situation with a child and he cut us out for 3 yrs) but it's for the best.
Lots of support in these comments. As an older finance professional, I applaud your and your sisters’ respectful and generous offer (and I’m not surprised they angrily declined it given their pattern). It’s ironic that they don’t want you controlling their finances, when they want you to give control of your money to them.
I would never cosign anything for them. The phone calls you get from their debt collectors are no different from the spam calls we all get. You are not responsible for their debt now or after they die so long as you did not cosign for it. I am willing to give items or pay a bill directly, but handing cash over in this situation seems the same as handing it to an addict.
I would caution you to be prepared for their future, when they inevitably need to enter nursing care. With this pattern of manipulation, you will undoubtedly be called upon to assist. You might look into alternatives ahead of time so you are better prepared for how you’ll respond at a crisis point.
Dear Fellow Reader, I am so sorry you are in such a difficult and toxic situation. You are not recalcitrant or selfish people. You, your husband, sister, and SIL have all gone above and beyond for years to help them. Your parents are narcissists who clearly care only about themselves and nothing about their children. You all have been generous, kind, and supportive but at this point, I think it's time to spend that energy on yourselves since your parents are not going to change. I know it must be difficult to not have a relationship with them, but honestly it may be better for your mental health in the long run since they only seem capable to piling guilt onto you and not love. Stand strong together.
Chiming in to add - please lock down your own credit and tax returns (freeze, and pin authorization). If they are desperate enough, I would not put it past them to attempt to pose as you or attempt to open lines of credit in your name - especially if they still have any documents with you SS# on them.
As others have said - you are being more than reasonable, and realistically, generous given the history. Do not cosign anything for them, and have your name(s) removed from any accounts they added you to.
Sometimes you have done all that you can do. Set your boundaries, and make sure everyone (Sister, SIL, Aunt, etc) are all on the same page with the plan(s) for "help," when they get evicted, etc. They are expecting someone to back down and bail them out - it's easier said than done, but you will all have to break the cycle together if there is any hope of them taking even a smidge of accountability.
Yes! This is incredibly important information from Mallory. It isn't outside the realm of possibility that they may attempt to open lines of credit in your name, especially if they've somehow obtained your SSN, not uncommon in this day and age when so much of our personal information is available online. Desperate people do this; I've seen it happen! Please do lock all your accounts and monitor them regularly.
Also, keep in mind that these are the years when you and your spouse need to be planning and saving for your OWN retirement. You won't get these earning years back.
Consider freezing your credit (it can be unfrozen if necessary).
Actually easy to do - with all 3 credit agencies.
Please let go of any guilt that you have about this. Your parents never moved on from behaving like children and you can’t force them to grow up, apparently. Anything that I was going to suggest just reading the intro, are things that you have already done and offered. It really does seem like the time to step away and not enable them since they refuse the help that would address their issues, instead of always begging for bandaids. Hugs!
My guiding principle is No one can take advantage of you without your permission! So grow a backbone and put out the hand to silence the requests and good luck and God bless you!!!
Sending so much love to this reader! I also have a parent who is extremely irresponsible with money, and it is so distressing and difficult to deal with. Reader, you have done nothing wrong. You have helped multiple times and given multiple extremely reasonable alternatives to your parents. It is extremely unfair of them to keep putting you in this position. I highly encourage you to keep setting and maintaining boundaries for your own mental health!
You are not a hateful, selfish person. It is your parents choice to act this way, not yours.
I would caution you to see if you live in a filial state
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/filial-responsibility-laws-by-state
A number of states have this law on the books. PA enforces it the most but given the state of the economy, I would not be surprised if more states stepped up enforcement.
If you do live in a filial state, please be ready.
This reminds me of a conversation I overheard while working. Three of my coworkers were discussing a friend that they had advised to pay her bills, set some money aside for emergencies and then if there was some leftover she could get her hair and nails done. Their friend was adamant that she was going to do the opposite. Her hair and nails came first before anything. Every one of them said they were thru feeling sorry for her that she had her priorities in the wrong place and nothing was going to change with her and she wasn't going to sleep on their sofas the next time she got evicted. I recently watched a Dave Ramsey show that addressed the issue you have with your parents. He advised the caller to love their parents but not to keep bailing them out. He even went on to say that the Bible doesn't expect you to bail them out. I'm sorry that your parents are this way but they don't sound appreciative at all for the assistance they have ever received and just look at you as a bottomless bank. Live your life knowing their decisions are theirs and theirs alone, not your responsibility.
Dear Reader: Yes, you are doing the right things. You just are.
What do they do all day? Shop? Socialize? Play online? They sound very bored, and purposeless. Is there some volunteer work or something they could do to feel important?
Cell phone numbers might or might not transfer to a new plan-- I looked that up and there are a lot of twists to the policies and companies. Your parents might have been correct, or misinformed, or lying as a convenience for themselves.
You didn't mention grandchildren and perhaps there are none. If there are, that puts another burden on you, because these people are quite likely to make up stories to tell the grandchildren about their poverty, your cruelty, whatever. If so, explain to your children that some adults make bad choices, w Ahich have nothing to do with the children, and that helping is not always doing what careless people want.
Wishing you and your sister and your families well-- Good for you for working together! Are there senior social services in your area that could provide help either for what is happening now or what you expect in the future?
You probably love your parents but they are manipulating you and abusing your relationship. Tough love, or they’ll pull y’all down into bankruptcy with them.
I agree with others here - you aheb to put YOUR (and your families) oxygen mask on first. You should not be draining your accounts to get them out of a bind when they refuse all offers of help to get their financial house in order. They keep coming back to you and Sister/Aunt - because they know you will bail them out again. They have proven they are not financially responsible with their continuing behavior.
I know its hard - but you are NOT a bad person. YOU (and your Sister/Aunt) are the responsible ones in this scenario.
Ask yourself this, if the shoe was on the other foot - and you were the one about to be evicted, power cut off, etc -- would they help? Probably not as they do not have the means.
The fact that they keep twisting it around to make you (the helpers they run to) look like the "bad guy"..... when you try to put stipulations on helping -- shows me they need serious counseling, not only the financial kind!
This story hit too close to home. Unfortunately, I've been in a similar situation. It isn't easy, but you have to have boundaries in order to protect yourself and not enable irresponsible behavior. Rescuing someone who is dumping money into a lifestyle that is unsustainable is delaying the natural consequences of their actions. They have to learn to live within their means and stop expecting everyone else to pay their bills for them, and that's not going to happen until they have to live with the consequences of their actions. I think you did the best thing.
They have to cut the parents off. Everyone needs to take care of their own financial affairs. If the parents can't handle it, so be it. Natural consequences - sort of like raising small children. If they touch something hour and get burned, they learned not to do that again.
My older sister did this to my parents - hitting them up for money over and over again - no job, although perfectly able to work. She and her husband worked the California assistance system to the max - they were on welfare and Social Security Disability and got handouts from their church. They never took responsibility for their spending habits (oh, we HAVE to have this). Before our parents passed, my dad had set up a special needs trust structures like an old-fashioned spendthrift trust. She received just enough monthly to not kick her off the disability. And she STILL couldn't make it. My oldest sister was the trustee and had to explain over and over why she couldn't send more money each month.
They are too old to learn, and not to old to be let fail. The children can feel SORRY for them, but they can't allow their parents to lay guilt on them for CHOICES the parents have made.
Tough love.
I'm so sorry for what your family is dealing with. Like other readers, I'd like to bring up boundaries. While your situation seems much more dire than mine, I am financially caring for my mother. My father died when I was a young adult and while he had provided for her future, my mother spent all the money left to her and decided to retire early almost a decade ago. So while she is still young, she isn't financially prepared for retirement. I tried to be helpful but my attempts were perceived as me trying to control her. So for many years, I didn't talk about finances with her at all; meanwhile she was continuing to spend out what little she did have.
Three years ago, my neighbor passed away and had asked his estate to sell his house to my husband and me. Its a beautiful home but was in terrible disrepair. We made the difficult decision to buy it, renovate and move my mother in. The whole situation was quite upsetting. She had incredible expectations and was very demanding. Because I wanted to be the good daughter, I did my best to meet her needs. As a result, I felt drained and taken advantage of and quite miserable. Meanwhile, her health started to deteriorate and the added strain of trying to meet her health needs really put me over the edge. My brother lives across the country and initially there was some conflict. I have the ability to buy a second home but that doesn't mean I should spend all my time and money caring for my mother. I do have a busy career and three busy children with my own home, marriage and pets to care for.
Last year I started working on my boundaries with my therapist. I couldn't name my boundaries but I learned that when I felt resentful, it was almost always because I did have a boundary deep inside me that had been crossed. Once I felt any resentment, it was the catalyst to explore why I felt resentful. It has helped me identify what my true boundaries are. Things aren't perfect, but as I identified these boundaries, I started talking to my brother and my mother about them. My therapist also provided support in hearing me out and confirming the boundaries I wanted were appropriate. One comment regularly thrown back at me anytime I set a boundary is that I'm being selfish. My therapist helps me confirm I'm not being selfish because I truly don't want to be. But I do want to do things that genuinely help the people I love and I need to remind myself that it isn't my responsibility to take care of everyone.
Sorry this was a long response. My point is these situations have lots of emotion and feelings. If you can learn to identify and name these and work with someone outside your family, you can find a way to deal with it. Further, as a result of all of this, my resentment has gone down and I've been able to repair many aspects of my relationship with my mother. She's a big part of my children's lives now and I know that wouldn't be the case if I hadn't done the work on myself to address this situation.
Rachel, I found this very insightful and helpful. The point of resentment being an internal unrecognized boundary. I will think about this. Thank you!
Well said. You did the work and you and your family are better for it.
Two more little things regarding the PARENTS behavior:
Don't reward bad behavior. And my son says (along with his middle-aged gamer friends), "You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes."
Let them win the stupid prizes.
Just speculating here after reading all the excellent and unanimously supportive comments: Is there some sort of brain/math disorder where people are completely unable to discern between needs and wants, between financial dependence and independence, between income and outgo, between what is “owed" to them and earning one’s way??
Or is it that some people lack scruples and believe that manipulation is a legitimate method of acquiring necessities and desires?
Such incomprehensibly exploitive behavior defies all logic, and yet it is fairly common in many people’s lives.
I have, no, HAD a friend who only calls me when she needs something; I’ve learned to not answer her number (which often changes because she doesn’t pay her bills, of course.) She doesn’t ask for money, but I did take her a bag of groceries once.
CCA Jana, in response to your first question:
IMHO, yes there is. It is called SELFISHNESS
I have a friend who is extremely good at math, but the numbers have no meaning for her. Like, she doesn't feel or recognize when something is expensive vs something being a good price value. It's the oddest thing. However, she can absolutely differentiate between needs and wants, and only buys things the needs. She lives well within her means and if she needs to make a big(er) purchase, asks a friend or partner whether the asked price is reasonable.
So yes, those "math-blindnesses" do exist, but they don't lead to unreasonable behaviour and entitlement.
I think you and your sister should get new phone numbers.
Options could be to block the parents' numbers, use a call screening option, or just not answer rather than the huge hassle of changing their numbers.
Sending you all of the virtual hugs! This is such a painful situation to be in and you are handling it as graciously and wisely as you possibly could. I agree with the commentariat -- hold your entirely reasonable boundaries to avoid enabling your parents further -- but wanted to add one more perspective. I was raised by a mother with a personality disorder and your parents' behavior and approach is very familiar to me. Growing up, I was taught that her mistakes were my responsibility and that not fixing them meant I was a bad, selfish daughter. It took years of therapy and work to unravel that message, but doing so improved my own mental health and stress level immeasurably. I would gently suggest that you might consider visiting a therapist who is skilled with boundaries, maybe even including your husband and SIL in group sessions. In case you need to hear this (even from an internet stranger, haha), you are a good daughter and your parents' decisions are not your responsibility. Your responsibility is your family with your husband and taking care of yourself and your relationship so that you can live your fullest, most joyful life. You've got this.
Dear Reader, I am sending you a well deserved hug. Your lost childhood. Your toxic adult - parent relationship, for having a wonderful sibling and you both have supportive spouses. I would've advised #2, however it would be a trial period with a hard end date. At this point, change your number, email and mailing address (post office box), be vigilant in checking your credit status. I had to do this with a family member. She is a second cousin! Fool me once....
I have briefly mentioned here before that our financial situation abruptly changed, coinciding with my husband’s dementia diagnosis. We too, are now living on SS. I have radically adjusted our lifestyle and I mention it only to say that it IS possible, it IS doable, no one did it for me and I take full responsibility for it. It will not happen with your parents as it’s their lifetime pattern. Expect nothing to change even with your best of intentions. All of you have gone above and beyond and now it is your time to extricate yourselves from this repetitive cycle of bail outs. Don’t let them further hijack these precious middle years of yours. Rest well in that you’ve given from your hearts and now you must listen to your heads.
I think you need to cut them off financially and mean it. After you told them it was the last time you could give them money, they came back to you with eviction and cell phone demands. You offered to pay for X if they did Y. Your stipulations were reasonable, but you had already said we can’t give you any more money, and then you offered more money. They think you will keep helping out because you do, and will continue to manipulate and guilt trip you. Let them suffer the consequences. I know that’s easier said than done when it’s someone you love, but you can’t keep setting yourself on fire to keep them warm.
I am so sorry you have experienced this nightmare for years. Although every one of us who has a deeply troubled parent(s) hopes they will somehow, some day change, the fact is that sometimes our prayers aren’t answered the way we hope, at least not in this lifetime.
Some parents aren’t capable of loving their children. It has absolutely nothing to do with the child. Continuing to give them money won’t change one thing.
I’m so sorry.
I have nothing to add to the conversation that hasn't already been said. Excellent advice throughout. Just want to be another voice to say that I'm sorry this is what you have to go through and encourage you to stay strong!
I have a very good friend that had something similar happen. Your Dad and Stepmother had over the years had home (RV) and cars repossessed among other bills that went unpaid. She was very scared at one point that they would be completely homeless and offered to buy a house near her for them. She would pay all bills for the first 2 years so they could get back on their feet. She also paid off one of his credit cards. Her dad arrived in a Uhaul with any possessions they wanted to keep having lost not one but both of his cars to repossession. They had been living in a state 7 hours away from us. With his pension and social security and some help from her they finished funishing the home, and got him a beater truck in fair condition but paid out right. He agree to not buy a new car until the 2 years were up.
This is how it started. About 6 months in they bought his wife a used car with payments. He also started complaining about the beater and he convinced her he was on his feet and that his past due bills were paid off so they bought the new truck. A year in they bought a RV. Some things came up and she continued paying these bills past 2 years. She also further remodeld their house to fit their needs. Around 3 years they became really secretive and avoided her. Some arguments happens and names were called. At this time they got help from their church to put a down payment on a house. They let her know a week before moving that they were moving. At this point she went to see the house and saw a few things that needed fixed and they asked if she could help with that. Not being an electrician she called her really handyman and he came over and fixed the things she listed and a few more things her dad asked him to fix. She has never been reimbursed. At another time they put in a ramp and her dad didn't like the construction of it.
At this point she told him she was done. Way past when I would have, but she said she felt any of these things were not worth turning her back on him before that. You might still be there, but if you are looking for a change in behavior it will never happen. I hate to say that, but even when the wolf is at the door and they are losing their home, they still want to live the life they want to live. I hope it works out.
This may be painful to read but after reading this account all I can think is- the parents are very manipulative. I think your parents have some sort of mental, emotional ailment or personality disorder- that’s the only way I can make sense of behavior as atrocious as this. I would have walked away long ago. You are not the problem. Hold firm, talk to a therapist and sever ties if needed. It doesn’t sound like they’re living a happy, fulfilled life anyhow so all that giving them more money is doing is perpetuating very bad behavior, toxic relationships and financial strain for you and your sister. Sometimes the best people to help are no longer family. There is help out there for folks who want to change (and for those who don’t.) and for what it’s worth, as someone who has helped with assistance at my church, the church will wise us pretty quickly and stop supporting them. Sending you a big hug.
My blood is boiling on your behalf. I think your final offer was more than generous. Going forward, as Dave Ramsey would say, you have no further responsibility, walk away knowing you have done the right thing, no more chances. So sorry you and your sister are going through this. Equally difficult for your partners, but in a different way……
Completely agree; you, your sister and SIL have been more than generous and gracious and every choice they are making is what THEY want to do. They don't want assistance, they want continuous support and will church jump to secure whatever they can talk folks out of. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I echo everyone else who is commenting about setting firm boundaries - it will be no surprise to them at this point, but perhaps that you are holding firm to your convictions. You are in no way selfish. Some great advice here at FG and I hope it brings you some solace to know you've done more than most folks would. Take care of yourself and your marriage and your retirement.
Nice photos of grasses.
Kristen is of course compassionate, and right. 'JNL is spot on.'
Listen to Dave Ramsey radio show for '...practical advice on life and money.'
Ramsey Solutions https://www.ramseysolutions.com
We have similar family member, it is a mental health issue.
Sad.
Pray.
My mother lived in Denver and we lived in Minneapolis. When she needed financial help, we offered to come help her get everything straightened out. She accepted. But, when we go there she refused help. When I asked why she had us come then, she replied she thought it was the only way to get us to come visit. We never offered help again. You truly cannot help someone who doesn't want help. You can only stop enabling them.
Oh my goodness! Stay off the crazy train! Period. You are NOT helping them by giving money. When you do what's right for you you do what's right for others.
Maybe get counseling to help you keep setting good limits? No more dysfunction.
I don't really have much to add outside of that I too have parents that were always bad with money. It's frustrating when you look at how in hindsight had they changed a few things about their behavior, things could've been a lot easier for all of us. Thankfully they have stopped asking for money.
As someone told me, "Don't go into Home Depot expecting to be able to buy a gallon of milk." Accept that they will be who they are and at this point, save divine intervention probably won't change.
You sound like such nice people, but there is nothing you can do to help people who will not be helped. Face it, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. You have tried to help but the harsh reality is that you have only become codependent enablers, allowing your folks to do it over and over again. Please forgive my harsh words, but it is the truth.
You all cannot help these drowning people without being pulled under yourselves. They are going to end up being homeless because they will not take full responsibility, or any responsibility, for their actions. This sounds heartless, and I am sorry, but all of you are going to have to save yourselves from financially drowning! It is heartbreaking but you must NOT give in to their emotional blackmail. Would you buy heroin for them if they were drug addicts? You cannot give them money or help anymore. I'm sorry. Harden your hearts if you must but don't let them punch your ticket on their guilt trips. They are the ones who are guilty, not you.
Meanwhile, if they tell lies about you in the church congregation, perhaps you need to set the pastor/priest/rabbi straight and say if this is repeated publicly, it is slander and you will be forced to take action. You need to publish in the legal notices that you will not be responsible for debts contracted by anyone other than yourselves. Consult a lawyer for help.
Yes, I know this is eating at you emotionally. Perhaps there is a support group you can attend for tough love for debtors; I have heard of a 12 step type group called Debtors Anonymous and maybe they have an Al Anon type group for the debtors' loved ones. There is a group called Co-Dependents Anonymous and perhaps they can help you feel better. Or phone Dave Ramsey; he will likely tell you the same things I'm saying.
As to housing: Please don't let your relative take them in. All they will do is freeload off her and mess up her life. This is something I know first hand: I tried to help my BFF from 2nd grade and she became the Roommate from Hell and cost me thousands in damages to my home, ran up the utility bill and never paid what she owed me in rent/reimbursement. I beg you, don't provide them housing!
Sadly, there's not a darn thing you can do except say NO. And pray. You've tried everything else already! It's gut wrenching to watch this happen (it hurts just to read about it!) but it is one of those situations where you cannot save people who refuse to change. I am so sorry.
As far as I am concerned, if they want financial help, their finances are very much your business! They sound extremely irresponsible, irrational, and unrealistic. No is hard to say, but they refuse to admit how wrong they are and, due to their current behavior, they are not your responsibility.
When my MIL was alive I tried to convince her to leave one of my BIL's inheritances in a trust for him to be managed by a trustee, but she refused to treat him "differently". True to my prediction, he became homeless about a year after she died despite a somewhat generous inheritance, and ended up living in his car that became infested with roaches. It was terrible, but all of his siblings and their spouses understood that throwing money at the problem was a hole that was just going to get deeper, and nobody wanted him in their homes around their children forever more. We all felt very guilty for not helping him (well, the women of the family did, the men--his brothers--didn't appear to pay any attention, to be truthful it was all the work of his sisters and sisters-in-law).
He hit rock bottom. We managed to get him some help through a social services program. It was a bumpy ride, but eventually he got the help he needed to apply for Social Security and SSI, Medicaid, and he got supportive and subsidized housing. This process took a few years. He is stable now because he still has a lot of outside support from Social Services, Medicaid, housing, etc. We check in on him, but don't financially contribute. And IMHO, he's better off than he would have been if we had "helped", though the road to get to the place he is now was brutal.
I can imagine it's much harder with your parents, but they have told you over and over again in every way possible that they only want help their way, and you know that does NOT work in the long term. If they don't want to accept what you are willing to do for them, it's on them, not on you.
by giving him money, you would have made the process to him getting stable and in a safe environment much longer and potentially worse. While there are options and marks to hit up, seams to mine, certain types of people will always do that rather than be accountable. The reasons can be addiction, mental illness or a mystery, but it is what it is.
The four of you are collective scapegoats of gaslighting narcissistic parents.
The only way for THEM to change is for YOU to change -- remove yourselves entirely from their lives.
Oh gosh, I am so very sorry that you and your sister and your partners are dealing with this. I totally agree with everything Kristen wrote-your parents have shown you again and again who they are, and at this stage in their lives, I find it very hard to believe that they will change. My first cousin cut off contact with her very toxic mother, and she worked through her guilt with her therapist, and she told me recently that she feels such peace, relief and freedom. You have absolutely done all you can, and now you should go forward and live your lives and let them live theirs.
You may find the memoir The Glass Castle (and its sequel) of interest.
Over the past couple years, we have helped out a friend and a family member with financial issues. In both cases, we paid for one specific thing monthly. (But in both cases, they never asked for more.) In our budget, I call this patronage (because one is the bill for a niblings art class…so we’re patrons of the arts). Because we can afford it and we like giving to people we know. But, say my DH dies and our income halves. Thats the first budget line that goes to $0.
I second the recommendation of The Glass Castle. Reading about other people's child abuse has helped me understand my own. Emotional abuse is real.
You are not terrible, selfish, or hateful. Like everyone, you want to survive and stay alive. This makes you normal! It does not mean you don't love your parents or honor them in any important sense. What you have done is more than enough. YOU ARE ENOUGH!
For many years I was estranged from my parents because I tried to enforce more than reasonable boundaries that they rejected. It was very painful even though I never doubted I made the right choice so I could survive. I thought I had estranged myself from them, but on reflection, it was they who rejected me. It hurts to say that but I now understand that they were each working with very limited tools (each of them was abused by their own parents) and they did not understand or know how to do better.
I'll leave you with this poem, "The Journey," by Mary Oliver.
One day you finally knew
what you had to do, and began,
though the voices around you
kept shouting
their bad advice—
though the whole house
began to tremble
and you felt the old tug
at your ankles.
"Mend my life!"
each voice cried.
But you didn't stop.
You knew what you had to do,
though the wind pried
with its stiff fingers
at the very foundations,
through their melancholy
was terrible.
It was already late
enough, and a wild night,
and the road full of fallen
branches and stones.
But little by little,
as you left their voices behind,
the stars began to burn
through the sheets of clouds,
and there was a new voice
which you slowly
recognized as your own,
that kept you company
as you strode deeper and deeper
into the world,
determined to do
the only thing you could do—
determined to save
the only life you could save.
When people show you who they are, believe them. Whenever they are rescued, you are aiding and supporting their bad behavior. Help them by letting them solve the problems they have created for themselves.
I have lived with a similar situation with my brother. All his life he had trouble handling money and would come to me for help. Now in our 70's it is still the same. He, like your parent would spend money like crazy, for him it was big TVs, new furniture and mostly buying on credit. A couple of times he got a large sum of money from inheritances and he would blow through that in no time. I tried to invest for him this money and he would cash it out in months.
We left it similar to what you are doing, with the last time I helped I told him never to ask me again as I am now retired and on a fixed income. I could help but using that as a reason so he will not put me though this emotional turmoil I get when he calls which is only when he needs money.
Kristen gave the perfect advice and I as well needed to hear what she said!!
Nothing helpful to add here from me, but just wanted to say I’m sorry for what you are dealing with. It sounds like you are handling a really rotten situation as well as you possibly can. Wishing you all the best as you navigate a tough situation.
Very well thought out and executed plan. My two cents is you did the right thing. It's hard not helping when you love the person. There is a difference between helping and enabling. You are choosing not to enable.
Dear Reader, I'm so sorry that you are being used and mistreated by your own parents. Unless they are a loving presence in your life in other ways, it sounds like it may be time to cut the cord for good. You and your family members are not responsible for your parents' choices. Please protect your finances and your sanity in all of the ways that Kristen and the Commentariat have suggested. Wishing you all the best.
Adding to earlier note to say that if they move in with your sister and SIL, they should expect that they'll be there for life. Very very hard to move anyone out of a house. (Even squatters!)
It's only lather, rinse, repeat if you keep shampooing. Turn off the flow of money but for that it sounds like a therapist will be able to better support you with setting boundaries and not owning guilt for their actions. Such a tough circumstance. Easy for everyone else to say no way but I know it has to be so, so hard.
Everyone is right. Do not give them more money. They have shown you repeatedly how they will behave. They are adults with an income, not minor children requiring your support. I think it's not a good idea for your sister to have them live with her, either; that sounds like a recipe for a lot of conflict in her home. I'm sorry this is happening. I do think the healthiest thing you can do for them is hold to the boundary.
OP/ You have done so, so, so much more than anyone should ever expect from their children in situations that are totally within their control. Obviously, a true catastrophic emergency, a health thing or similar is something no one can predict and of course one would want, in those circumstances, to give as much as possible and likely never count the cost.
This is not that. This is two people who have lived selfishly and thoughtlessly for their whole adult lives for reasons I couldn't begin to guess at. They feel that their financial lives are none of your business but that you should be willing to give random, large amounts of money whenever they feel like it, no questions asked. To my mind, if I am being asked to participate in something, I have an interest in that thing, financial or otherwise. It is my business, at least to an extent. They want the money and no accountability, like you are a living, breathing money tree. Do you get this money by magic? No. You work for it, and need to feather your own nest.
Strongly suggest you do not ever give them any money again under any circumstances at all, not ever. Sounds harsh? Unfortunately, with people like this, love them though you do, they have learnt that by wheedling and tantruming just a littttttttleeee bit longer, they will get what they want! Only by making a clear ''no more money at all, ever" statement and sticking to it with ''no. We've discussed this. No." type statements will this be resolved for you. ''I already gave'' is the slightly snider version.
Do not give them any money at all, ever.
The only thought I would add is emphasizing "Their responce is about THEM, not YOU". Please see that to preserve your well being, you have offered what is likely the only solution that keeps your parents off the street. Should THEY choose to take other action, it is THEIR CHOICE. Collectively the family has gone above and beyond for many years. That time is over.
What ever you give them, it will never be enough. And I bet it is not just the money. Your attention, your willingness to jump in any time - that is exhausting.
See, these people LOVE drama. If they don`t have any problem in the world, they will create one, or better two, am I right?
Keep the offer you made, just in case someone says you did "nothing to help them."
And then enjoy the blissful silence, the abundance of energy, the sudden surplus of time for yourself!
I am so sorry for you, but your parents made it very clear: they don`t want to change. You can`t change them against their strong will to keep the boat sinking.
Just do not ever let them move in with you because they finally became homeless.
Put all your strength in protecting your own family, because they will surely drag you down with them without a second thought.
I am so sorry you're having to go through this! As the children of the couple, I'm sad you're having to bail them out of their situation. It is not your responsibility to bail them out. I have started listening to Mel Robbins Let Them podcast and feel this is a scenario where you have to let them do their thing and figure it out each time. period. You gave them reasonable expectations regarding lending money. I'm sorry they continue to try and manipulate you about their own needs. You and your sister are amazing if you grew up this way and became successful independent adults! Kudos to both of you.
What your reader submitted is exactly the scenario I faced with my parent. It is so eerily similar, it’s bizarre.
What I finally came to learn is that they didn’t want to change and had no intention of changing. What they wanted was for us to continue allowing them to live as they’d always lived. They manipulated & used people to get what they wanted. This continued until death.
I’m sad they never saw that there was an easier way to live & I wish they’d been willing to dig into what it was that caused them to want to spend like that, but it was out of my control.
Ultimately, I’m glad it’s over. I wish you well in what is a really difficult situation.
We just went through this with our grown daughter. Paid almost all her past due bills, rent, power ,water. Car registration. She then complained to our other daughter that we paid what bills we wanted to and not the ones she wanted. She has two children. We didn't want them homeless. She was supposed to sit down with us every other week and go over her paychecks and her bills. Nope didn't even do it the first time. She's since had her truck impounded. It took less than two months for her to let it get like that. I told her when we paid her bills it would be the last time if she doesn't do as we suggested. So now it's all on her. I'm disappointed in the fact she acted so ungrateful when talking about it with another family member. I just hope she doesn't try to ask us for financial help again.
This story is EXACTLY our story in reverse. We are the parents and our children have done this over and over to us. They are 45 and 50. We finally went to a therapist to end it once and for all. We brought to a session individually and told them inno uncertain terms we were done. Don't call, don't ask.
We unloaded all our fear of the demise, fear for their safety, fear of what others eould think a in the therapist office. We had an immediate sense of peace and maintained it. They lost housing, they lost cars, they have legal troubles- and guess what?? They always land on their feet and are burning out one "patsy" after another. We don't respond to any text and we don't see them. They resort to all their usual manipulative efforts and WE DO NOT RESOND. We are relived and don't miss them and the enjoy the rest of our family (grandchildren, great grands, our sibs, etc.) and the family loves it, too. Peace and joy and NO DRAMA. We can't recommend this process enough- wish we'd done it 20 yrs ago! We have a trust/will and whatever we leave them will be minus what we've given them. Stipulates if any heir complains or attempts suing anyone they are immediately and forever barred from receiving anything.
I hope you can let others know about this. It will prevent years of anguish.
You cannot change the behavior of others. After helping and offering to help and the behavior doesn't change, then the responsibility to help is removed BY THEM. Do not feel guilty. I had a behavior from my mother that is not acceptable and very hurtful to me. Others accept her behavior, but I removed her from my life completely for my own mental health.
Dear reader, I am so sorry that you have experienced this. It sounds so incredibly frustrating and sad that, despite the help from you and your family, your parents continue to ask for so much.
I think the plan you offered them is more than fair, considering their many years of financial bad behavior.
I think going no contact with them is the best thing. They are like children, if they don’t get what they want from you, they have a fit.
It’s hard being estranged, but perhaps not as hard as dealing with their selfishness and financial irresponsibility.
I am so glad you have a sister to share this crazy situation with. You have done more than enough and made a very generous offer, which they belittled. They need natural consequences, and hopefully you can stay strong so they get them. Good luck to you!