A moral conundrum | reselling after a fix-up
Back when Freecycle was a thing, they had a policy saying that you are not supposed to resell an item you pick up from Freecycle. And Buy Nothing groups have the same rule in place, mainly to keep people from joining the groups merely to get inventory for selling.
The point of Buy Nothing is to keep stuff local and out of the landfill, and Freecycle had the same purpose.
This makes clear sense to me, and when I suspect someone in my group is just snapping things up willy-nilly for reselling, I skip on by them and I give my items to someone else.
I am wondering, though: is there any moral wiggle room when you've received a free item and then rehabbed it, thus adding value?
Here's what triggered my thinking:
Someone wants to buy my quilt
You know that white-and-blue quilt with matching shams that I got from my Buy Nothing group, with the stains and the tear?
I mended the rip (very imperfectly!), using some scrap fabric.
And I addressed the stains with lots of Oxi-Clean soaks, multiple trips through the washing machine, and some sun-bleaching.
The set looks pretty darn good now, and it serves nicely for the summer season, when my down duvet is way too heavy.
Anyway, someone saw my quilt online and sent me a message asking if I would sell it. At first, I was weighing whether or not I wanted to part with it, but then I remembered I got it from my Buy Nothing group, which means selling it is probably against the rules.
Ok, but what if you invested time/money?
If you pick something up and then immediately resell it, that's clearly an issue.
But I am wondering if that changes once you've invested labor or materials into fixing an item up. No one would have wanted to buy the quilt and shams in the as-is condition I received them. They are only sale-able because I invested in them (mainly time!
I also thought about that dirty, spattered bookcase I got, with the shelf partially melted away.
I bought legs for it, turned it upside down to hide the messed-up shelf, cleaned it, and sanded, primed, and painted it. It is nothing like what I originally picked up.
In this case, it would be fine to resell it, because it was just a Facebook Marketplace freebie, but it is a good example of how you can add a lot of value to something that was junk to the original owner.
Or, remember that old tallboy Freecycle dresser that was one of my first painting projects? I always wondered if it would be ok to sell it after all the labor I put into it (and I also bought new hardware for it).
That's a theoretical exercise, though, because I left it behind at my old house, and I have no idea what has happened to it since.
(And honestly, I do not care, because I don't want anything from that bedroom!)
ANYWAY.
Another thought:
Does motivation matter? Or elapsed time?
If you're trawling Buy Nothing groups looking for inventory, then you know what you're doing. And you're looking for a quick flip.
But if you get an item, fix it up, own it for five years, and then sell it, is that any different? Are you still bound to the Buy Nothing rules, even if your initial motivation wasn't reselling?
I might be overthinking this
I have theories about why this might be the case, but I am a person who is very conscious about following the rules and doing the right thing, and this means I spend perhaps more-than-average amounts of energy considering moral conundrums. Ha.
It's possible that it would be just fine for me to sell my quilt, and honestly, if I'd chosen to do that, no one would be the wiser (until now. Ha.)
But ultimately, I think I want to keep my quilt because I like it. 😉
(Full disclosure: I did consider whether or not that was selfish of me, because the person wanting to buy my quilt had a specific attachment to this exact quilt, while I just like it because I generally like quilts with white backgrounds. So I sort of wondered if I ought to be kind and send her my quilt because it means more to her than it does to me. THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING ABOUT THE OVERTHINKING.)
I don't have an answer for you, but if it makes you feel better, I'm one of those over-thinkers, too.
Welcome to the club! 😉
Overthinking reminds me of this quote from Angela on My So-Called Life, who is worried about her own overthinking: '"What I was thinking, as like a New Year's resolution, is to
stop getting so caught up in my own thoughts, 'cause I'm
like way too introspective...I think...but what if not thinking turns me into this shallow person? I better rethink this becoming less introspective
thing."
I can relate 😉
Ha!! That's me an my daughter!! 😉
I'm also an overthinker!
I think that the spirit of the rule should be followed, and to me it's about preventing people from running their business off of Freecycle and BNGs, when the goals are about helping people and the environment. But I also believe that once you owned and used something, it's yours to do with as you please. Don't take, flip, then sell. But if you took it, rehabbed it, used it, but don't need it anymore, I think it's fine to sell and doesn't violate the spirit of the rule.
This is what I believe too. Let's say the bookshelf was in one of your daughter's rooms and they moved out. A few years later, you decide you want to make a craft room and that bookshelf is not what you see for that room. I see no reason, after rehab and a few years of use, that it can't be resold. You got your use out of it and I see no reason to resell it so someone else can use it. What about the time and supplies you used to rehab it? Doesn't that count too?
This is pretty much exactly my thoughts. If you purchased it with an intent to use it in your own space and did so, it doesn't matter if you decided later on to not use it anymore. Things come and go. However, if your intent is solely to rehab and sell, that's against the spirit of the rules.
I agree with Maureen and Emily on this. You have to remind yourself that your time and materials have value, too...
Go ahead and sell the quilt! Just make the price reasonable.
I completely agree. I think if you put the work into it and use it, you can do whatever you want with it once you're done. No rule applies at that point, in my opinion!
I am an Overthinkers Club Chairperson! HaHA!!
Overthinkers of the world, unite! 🙂
Same! Sometimes it's really frustrating because "I NEED TO ANALYZE ALL THE DATA BEFORE I DECIDE BECAUSE WHAT IF I'M WRONG?!" I'm working on it, and being ok with not having the answers.
I don't have a clear answer either, but I don't think you should feel bad about wanting to keep the quilt - it's yours and you love it.
As for rules in general, I tend to question them a little more (I mean, not everything which is legal is necessarily right and vice versa), but in general I think about whom it affects. I don't like it when people resell things which are intended for people from low income backgrounds or for people to find in general (like from little free libraries). I also think about where the money is going (not for you specifically, I mean in general). Having said that, if you've spent a lot of time and effort fixing something which no one is likely to want, I think there's more argument for reselling it.
...I also did not mean to use the words 'in general' so much haha!
I think the original intent matters- you should only take things you want yourself. If you don’t do anything to it and then don’t want it, it’s nice to offer it free again, following the original owner’s intent. If you rehab it, use it for a while, then I feel you’re free to resell it (recouping something for your time and money invested).
That said, free cycle is a “gift”. I’ve always hated gifts with strings attached. My husband’s family gives gifts or hand me downs like this. They feel they still control the item (and by extension the receiver) once they give it to them.
Once I sold something that my dad had passed on to us. I apologized to him, and he asked why I was apologizing and said that once he gave it to me, I was free to do whatever I wanted and that it wasn’t his anymore, so he didn’t care. It felt so freeing, and I try to look at gifts or hand me downs that I give like this, too. It gives me as the giver more peace as well.
But I get the overthinking lol!
When my stepdad died and my mom had to move to assisted living, his entire family swooped in and reclaimed all the gifts they had given them over the years. I never heard of such a thing and I didn't want the junk anyway, but it seemed greedy and ridiculous to me.
I had a sister-in-law who would actually say out loud when gifting the parents that she wanted it back when they died.
I have never heard of such a thing! Why give a gift if you only stake a claim to it later down the road?
Often when cleaning out a deceased person’s home, the person who gave the deceased an item is asked if they want it back before it is given to someone else, sold, donated, etc. It can make sorting items easier. Of course, there is more than one way to sort items.
I am also an "over thinker" but these are my "over thoughts" on this subject: first, you should absolutely NOT feel bad about keeping the quilt. You worked hard to be able to enjoy it, and you should do that. For me, this comes down to motives/your heart posture. If you were trying to sell the quilt for an exorbitant amount of money and/or if you were violating the "rules" (which may or may not apply here) on a regular basis and selling items that you had received for free, then I think you'd be right to question. Although, IF you were doing either of those things, your moral turpitude would be apparent, and you wouldn't even consider the moral question of such an exchange.
However, in this one instance, if you wanted to sell the quilt because the person had a sentimental attachment to it and OFFERED to buy it (they initiated, not you), I think that would be fine. In the end, if you really didn't care about the quilt and realized it was important to said potential buyer, you could just GIVE the quilt to him/ her. No potential rules violations or moral conundrums there!
I agree with the "level of intent" line of thought. If you snatched something up for free b/c you knew you could sell it and of course profit then that goes against the purpose of the group. You have taken (said specific items mentioned) and taken strides to improve the item through cleaning and repair. You and used these items and found value in them. If you choose to sell them at some point - as their value has increased through YOUR efforts- I don't believe you are blatantly breaking rules. ( I also weigh the fact that you also pass along items on the buy nothing pages so you are an active participant and not using the items to your overall financial gain) if that makes any sense
I'm all for reselling a free item provided you've done work on it to make it more useful/functional. I don't think a quick paint job would count ( just pass it on as a blessing to others) , but stripping, massive refurbishing, new hardware, major effort count as an investment to value. (Goodness, some of those shelves and tables you've fixed up seemed beyond hope! The time, the sweat you put into it!)
Again, once a gift is given, it's your to do with as you will. Unless you were specifically asked to return it to the giver once your use end ( then its a loan and not a gift) , I think you can sell or give away as you wish.
Also why would someone's interest in the quilt override your pleasure and use of it?
( I think you're being overly scrupulous.)
You're allowed to have nice things.
I guess because this PARTICULAR make/model (ha) of quilt is what she wants, whereas I could be quite happy with any quilt from the "mainly white with a few flowers on it" genre.
It does seem a little odd to me that someone saw your quilt online and asked you to sell it to them. Perhaps there's a bigger story here that makes it understandable and you don't feel you can share it on the blog. Maybe it would be appropriate for this person to purchase you a new quilt as a replacement, giving you an opportunity to choose something you would like.
I suggest you ask her to get you a similar one to swop with you. You dont want the money, you want a white quilt with flowers on. Find one you want online and send her the link and tell her if she buys you that you'll give her yours.
This is a great idea--I think it solves the moral quandries quite nicely. But--if you don't want to do that--you are justified in keeping your quilt.
And it’s wonderful that you care, however, it’s not your responsibility to part with an item you use and enjoy, just because they asked and they want it. I have no moral issue with you selling it as you have invested in the quilt and obviously use it. My concern would be you changing/giving something you wanted and invested in for someone else’s want/desire/comfort (as long as you asked). 😉I would not randomly share this opinion on any ol’ blog.
As someone who is a rule follower, I think that if you get an item, fix it up, own it for five years, and then sell it, it's totally fine. You've certainly met the spirit of the law. I think it's fair to argue that it's not even exactly the same item (based on what you put into it.) You took it to use it, then you actually did use it, and that's exactly what the rule makers want.
Do you think you'll take on more rehab projects once nursing school is over? You really are good at making things beautiful.
Another random thought that seems tangentially relevant. If I receive something on Buy Nothing and give it to a friend knowing that they would enjoy it, I wouldn't expect that friend (or other future owners of the item) to also be bound by the BN rules.
I also agree that fixing up the quilt and waiting several years highlights that your original motivation was to keep and use the item (spirit of the law vs letter of the law...). Taken one step further, if you get free paints and canvases on BN, then paint a beautiful picture, must you never sell the picture?
[Looking up the official BN rules online...]
"Reselling: There is no rule against the reselling of Buy Nothing Project gifts outside of the app, but reselling must be done in ways that build trust. You simply need to share your intent to resell a gift when you request it. Givers are always free to give as they choose, and the disclosure of reselling respects each participant’s right to make informed and mindful choices about their giving. Many people are happy to give gifts that will be sold elsewhere to support organizations they respect, to help neighbors make a living by reselling, or to provide materials for artists and craftspeople who reuse gifted materials in their work. It is the responsibility of people who resell gifts to openly and clearly explain this when they ask for gifts they’d like to resell."
I think you're fine if you want to sell it to the inquiring party. Maybe you could consider their offer if it covers the cost of buying a comparable item? But perhaps you love your quilt and want to keep it anyway!? Endless fodder for overthinking minds! 🙂
Another random thought that seems tangentially relevant. If I receive something on Buy Nothing and give it to a friend knowing that they would enjoy it, I wouldn't expect that friend (or other future owners of the item) to also be bound by the BN rules.
I also agree that fixing up the quilt and waiting several years highlights that your original motivation was to keep and use the item (spirit of the law vs letter of the law...). Taken one step further, if you get free paints and canvases on BN, then paint a beautiful picture, must you never sell the picture?
[Looking up the official BN rules online...]
"Reselling: There is no rule against the reselling of Buy Nothing Project gifts outside of the app, but reselling must be done in ways that build trust. You simply need to share your intent to resell a gift when you request it. Givers are always free to give as they choose, and the disclosure of reselling respects each participant’s right to make informed and mindful choices about their giving. Many people are happy to give gifts that will be sold elsewhere to support organizations they respect, to help neighbors make a living by reselling, or to provide materials for artists and craftspeople who reuse gifted materials in their work. It is the responsibility of people who resell gifts to openly and clearly explain this when they ask for gifts they’d like to resell."
I think you're fine if you want to sell it to the inquiring party. You could consider their offer if it covers the cost of buying a comparable item? But perhaps you love your quilt and want to keep it anyway!? Endless fodder for overthinking minds! 🙂
Oh, interesting! I had never looked up the official rules before.
If it's an honest question of needs changing over time, I would either just pass the item on for free or charge just enough to account for any time and materials invested. I grant I'm biased because I've benefited from this very situation via my beloved car. The person that sold it to me only wanted $1000 to account for fixing the AC and tinting the windows, as he had inherited the car in the first place. It's not that the seller didn't care about the car--on the contrary, he wanted someone that would appreciate and take care of it.
I honestly don't know how I feel about flipping sometimes. There's certainly enough "stuff" out there, and I'm glad it can provide an income stream for some while keeping useful items in circulation. That said, I'm certainly guilty of being beaten to an item at a thrift store by an obvious flipper and being passingly perturbed because I was looking for said item to actually use in our home.
I am/have been members of both groups and know the rule. But if you rehab an item, then I think you can sell it. You put work into it. Slightly different but I have sold items I curb/trash picked or even got from a garage sale free pile. I have no problem doing that. I am saving things from the landfill.
Generally when I post something on Freecycle I just want to be rid of it without involving landfill - if someone can sell it on I don’t mind. But when it’s something like a spare fan, during a heatwave, I would want it to go to someone who’ll really appreciate it, ideally someone who would struggle to afford it. I rarely just give it to the first person to “pounce” - I’m sure there are people who automatically claim everything and then consider later if they want it or can be bothered to collect it! (No-shows are v frustrating.) But if you upcycle / restore something that was in poor order, then I see no issue in selling it - you’ve invested time, effort and often some money.
Perhaps there will come a time when you are less attached to the quilt, or find another you like better, and you can send the other person the quilt then. Or perhaps not!
I think the spirit of the rule is that you don't just quick flip it, even if you put time and effort into it. If you've fixed, used it for a couple of years, decide you no longer need it, then it would be okay to sell it.
First of all, I do not think it is selfish that you keep a quilt that you enjoy having in your house.
The question about flipping reminded me of a small house with lovely garden and orchard that a friend of mine sold to a young family that did not have much wiggle room. She let them have the house for a below market price, thinking it would be their home. Only to find that within two years they sold it again at a huge profit. The then owners took down the house entirely and constructed a new building, demolishing a 150 yr orchard and alotment.
She said it was a good lesson never to let anyone have anything you loved for cheap.
[So I was relieved and happy to read that one of your blogreaders had been able to purchase their house cheaply and did make it their home].
In scanning the comments, it looks like I'm the outlier here, but I would say that time and/or fixing something up doesn't change the rules about not selling it. (For what it's worth, I'm a total rule follower; my job is literally about rules.)
Saying that rehabbing or investing time/money in an item negates having received it for free (and agreeing to the associated rules by taking it) feels like a technicality. And kind of a weak one to be honest. One could argue that running something through the washing machine is an investment of time and money (electricity, laundry, detergent, etc), or simply wiping something off is an investment of time and money if you used a rag and/or cleaner you purchased, thus allowing it to be sold under the time/investment theory. That just seems like violating, at the very least, the spirit of receiving something for free under the condition of not selling it.
I understand the idea that a gift shouldn't necessarily come with strings attached, but it seems to be understood that there are conditions in accepting an item via Buy Nothing, and if you don't want strings, it's probably better to pass on Buy Nothing in the first place.
Can you tell that I also tend to overthink things? In continuing the overthinking, I don't think it was unkind of you not to give away your quilt. You're not obligated to part with something just because it might mean more to someone else.
I think there is a very clear distinction between wiping something down or washing it and spending time and money on dramatically improving it, especially if - this is important - the item has then gone on to be used and enjoyed and was not acquired to sell at all. Anything acquired is with the intention to make it nice and use it.
Of course, there are clear conditions in joining an organised group, and rightly so, but I do think that passage of time and clear, obvious upgrading AND the obvious genuine intention / use of the item oneself means that the rules have been followed.
I agree! Passage of time seems to be the greater weight here. Most people's needs/tastes change over time, and it would be unreasonable to expect anyone who gets a free item from a group to hang on to it indefinitely, or only have the ability to regift it later after having improved it (like the furniture Kristin rehabs). I think the spirit of the "law" is to not grab up items from groups with the sole intent of reselling, but if 2, 3, 5 years down the road, it no longer serves a purpose for you, selling it should be an option. The reality is, most people who are gifted an item that no longer suits them, tend to regift, especially if they've simply just used it for a time rather than rehabbed, mended, refinished, or in some other way, improved it.
I think in this specific situation, you'd be fine to sell the quilt since someone approached you and you aren't doing it as a habit. But I think if you're constantly taking free items with the intent of investing time/money to resell them, that kind of defeats the purpose of the Buy Nothing groups! (obviously you wouldn't do that, but I could see it becoming a problem in those groups!)
I might not be the right person to ask, because if I’m getting rid of something, I sincerely do not care what someone does with it. If I give you my old table, I don’t care if you use it to serve dinner or if you use it to put dinner on your own table that you like better.
This goes for new stuff that I could have sold myself as well as old stuff that took labor on your part to sell. It’s actually a lot of work to sell anything. That’s why I didn’t sell this hypothetical item! I gave it away because it was easier. The value in giving stuff away for me is in getting it out of my house and hopefully keeping it out of a landfill for a little while longer.
I get how this could create an issue with resellers taking over the Buy Nothing Group, so it makes sense that they have this policy.
I also know that there are people who REALLY care about WHOLE LOT that if someone takes their castoffs, they cherish said castoffs forever and ever and only pass them down after lovingly vetting the next caretaker of the item.
Since you agreed to this policy, you’ve given your word and it is now a very clear moral issue. Don’t go back on your word.
I think she has fulfilled the spirit of the contract and agreement though. She has taken stuff she personally wants to use and has greatly improved many things, and not taken anything she doesn't personally want to use. I think the statute of limitations has expired, especially on the upcycled stuff.
@Tarynkay, YES! I am 100% with you on not caring what someone does with something once I give it to them. When I'm getting rid of something, I just want it GONE, as quickly and easily as possible.
That being said, there are people who do care, and if that's made clear before taking possession of said item, then it's only right to honor that since you agreed to it.
My opinion only, but I think the motivation behind picking up a free item matters. You picked it up in good faith to use it. You have done just that. You didn't pick it up to sell it or flip it. No one would expect you to keep the quilt forever because it was from the Buy Nothing and they have a rule. The expectation is that you needed a quilt and would personally use it, and you have fulfilled those obligations.
Also, it's your quilt...of course you can say no and keep your quilt.
You are asking interesting questions. Perhaps the administrator's for both groups (Buy Nothing etc.) could provide an interesting perspective. I hope if you do that, you will then share here.
I think that if you have invested time (which has a dollar value - even very unskilled workers command a basic wage) and / or money, that there is zero problem with fairly and equitably making a little bit from the transaction. I come from a place where there is massive, grinding poverty and things that even very frugal people in the US or Europe would consider 100% trash are fought over. Apart from the fact that this is heart breaking and awful, it has taught me through various charitable stuff that if someone can make a few bucks selling something on, good. Good for them. It puts food on the table, it puts electricity in the meter. If you have worked on something and upgraded it or even just had it for a while and a genuine offer is made, I think you have zero moral problem to face.
I like buy nothing groups and think the whole concept is a wonderful one, but once I've donated my whatever-it-may-be, I cease to care what happens next. If I thought someone was being opportunistic, I might choose another recipient as you are doing, but once it's gone, it's gone. My mother in law refuses point blank to donate the cupboards full of really good quality men's clothes from my late father in law. Why? ''Oh THEY'LL JUST SELL THEM!!'' So? So what? Someone who can make use will have them ultimately, and someone else will have food and be able to pay debt and for a dentist visit. She considers herself devoutly Christian, but it seems a funny attitude to me.
Rant over!
You take such care with your projects, being fairly compensated is completely reasonable.
I'd love to know how your MIL responds if you ask her "what does it matter if they resell?"
Just chiming in to gently say that grief affects a lot of decisions. I’m a widow, and of course don’t know your mother-in-law, but maybe that’s playing a role in her decision to keep her husband's clothes, at least for now?
I really hope my comment isn’t offensive. I just hate grief and the way it affects my kids, my husband’s family, and me.
Caro,
In your m-i-l's situation, why can't she donate his clothes to a men's mission or the Salvation Army or similar Christian charities? SA could either give the clothes directly to the needy OR sell them in its thrift stores (charity shops) with the proceeds benefitting it's mission work. Homeless people, disaster survivors and folks living in poverty often need clothing! I'm sure Jesus would rather see the garments put to good use helping others than to have the items just gathering dust!
My other misgivings about Freecycle and BN is that they keep the charity thrift stores from receiving sellable merch that could help support their good causes.
As someone who gave away thousands of dollars worth of items to my But Nothing group, I can honestly say I don’t mind if someone sells the items if that’s how they put food on the table for their family.
Owning for 6 months = completely off the hook though! Sell it!! Improved it? Sell it!
In cases such as this, I think it is OK to sell the item.
You got the item and used it within the letter and the spirit of the rules. You added a great deal of value, owned and used it for a long time, and are thinking of selling it because circumstances changed.
BTW, freecycle is still a thing. I use it all the time.
Having thought further, I refine my answer.
I think if one gets something from BN, uses it as intended, then much later circumstances change, it's ok to resell rather than give away. Even if one hasn't added value by fixing or upgrading it.
This is on an unrelated note, but whenever I see BN I get the BN cookie advert song in my head, and it's been on a loop since reading this post!
Gosh, I wonder if the one in my area is still going! I thought it had gone defunct. I should search it up.
There's an interesting article on Buy Nothing here:
https://www.wired.com/story/the-battle-for-buy-nothing/
1) If you don’t want to sell the quilt, please don’t feel guilty about it. You should keep it and continue to enjoy it.
2) If you do decide to sell it, you can think of the money as payment for the labor and any supplies you put into repairing it and making it usable, not as payment for the quilt itself.
3) Another consideration - you use the quilt. If you give it away or sell it, you will need a replacement. You could give the quilt to the potential buyer, find something to replace it, and just request enough money from the buyer to purchase the new item. That way you are technically giving the quilt but allowing the buyer to purchase something for you to replace it.
This is the perfect answer. I wish there was an up vote button.
IMO, the intent of the BN rule is to prevent someone from gathering items with the explicit intent to resell. If you fix up the item, own it for some period of time & then decide to part with it, I see no problem in selling it. I'd also add that my BN group occasionally has posters who will say that they are comfortable with people picking up for resale (this is after they have posted several times to the main group with no takers), as it saves them time & effort from having to deal with the item, and keeps things out of the landfill. This has happened multiple times in my neighborhood when someone is cleaning out their parents house, for example, and they have many, many items to give away. I've also seen posters responding to posts that have gotten no traction, and after a few weeks chiming in to say, "I can take this if no one else wants/needs this. I would be trying to resell it, if you are comfortable with that." Again, they are being upfront, allowing the person to determine if they want to give it away to a reseller, and ensuring that someone else who could have used it had ample time to request it.
I try not to let perfect be the enemy of good when keeping things out of the landfill. As long as people are transparent and adhering to the general principle of the rules, I'm fine with it.
Yes, that's sort of the situation with this quilt; it had sat, unwanted, on the group for a while so I was like oh, what the heck, I'll pick it up and fix it.
In my area, both Goodwill and Salvation Army will come pick up large items or multiple items. If that's the case in your town, it might be easier just to call and ask the charity to send their truck around.
A lot of items post COVID get tossed in our area (or, so the news has reported locally). Because of that, I think you find a lot of people actively pursuing other methods of giving things away (when possible) on a 1:1 level. For anything leftover, most people do make donations to Goodwill & hope for the best.
So many items that get donated to stores like Goodwill also end up in landfills. See what becomes of everything not sold in the Goodwill outlets. Thrift stores will also toss things at donation if its not something they think they can sell.
This! I'm an admin of a buy nothing group in my area.
If you are taking the item for personal use, use it for months and decide you no longer want it, you can totally resell it without it being an issue. If you took the item just to sell it then it's violating those rules if the gifter didn't know your intentions.
If you have to ask the question…you already know the answer.
Unless you happen to be a person who is unnecessarily hard on themselves, and some of your scrupulous moral instincts do deserve to be questioned! (it's me. ha.)
You’re just still working on the ability to say “no”. A difficult but necessary skill especially for those of us who are soft hearted.
Since this person specifically wants this quilt perhaps the stars will align and you’ll come across a replacement. If she likes it now for sentimental reasons she will still like it in the future. Just hold onto her information.
You did *not* get any items with the intent of reselling. And after a period of time, reselling is not an issue IMHO. Does this mean you/your heirs could not sell an item at a garage/estate sale because of downsizing/death?
If you wish to part with the quilt, do so. It sounds like the free market is self-policing re: your comment of skipping a person who replies to an item you've posted.
Given the economy, I would not be surprised if you see an uptick of interest on items.
I don’t know if there is really a right or wrong answer to this. You just have to feel comfortable with your decision. If you really like the quilt you should keep it. If you want to give it to this person, maybe just ask a minimal price that covers your time and effort and shipping, if it needed to be shipped. Then it shouldn’t seem a violation of the buy nothing group rule. I’m a rule follower too and would struggle with this.
Btw I think I’m in your Buy nothing group and I have no problems with whatever you decide- keep or sell. 😊
To me, it would be OK to sell, because it is not exactly the same item you got for free. You received a quilt with a frayed edge and stained pillow shams. The quilt you have now has a repaired edge and no stain. Not the same. But you shouldn't sell this one because you like it. And if you sold it, you would have the aggravating job of finding a replacement
I see the gray area- but OK to sell! You breathed new life into the item, loved and used it, and now perhaps someone else has more of a need for it. I understand the over thinking but in this case you are not snapping inventory to make a profit.
I love the idea of sending the quilt to someone who has an attachment to it, if you can find a new one for you!
If you got a thing, fixed the thing, and used the thing, it is yours to do with as you wish. The end.
(I wouldn’t sell the quilt because I think it is beautiful and would want to keep it!)
Have you thought about passing it on free to this next person? Since you mentioned they have a specific attachment to this quilt?
Except...then I don't have a quilt. Ha.
Maybe they can find you one, and you guys trade. Tovar is, if you're really set on giving it away. Me, I wouldn't. Just because some stranger wants something of mine more than I do, doesn't mean I have to give it up.
I haven’t read all of the comments here, but I agree with what seems to the emerging consensus: intent matters! If you take an item from freecycle with the intent of reselling it, that’s in violation of the spirit of the group. If you take something because you plan to use it yourself, fix it up, own it for a while, and then resell it, then that’s something different. You’ve substantially improved the items you’re describing through your efforts, and you deserve some repayment for your time and effort. I’m a compulsive rule follower and an overthinker, but I genuinely wouldn’t give this a second thought.
I also just want to say that I saw a shout out to your blog in the comments section of a very different sort of blog that I also read. Someone asked how people can afford $300 dresses and European vacations, which led to a discussion about what it means to keep up with the Joneses when the Joneses are the internet. Someone basically said “this site is fun fantasy content, but here are some other sites you should read too” and gave a shout out to the Frugal Girl, with a specific mention of the comments section. It made me happy to see your site mentioned there, and it also made me appreciate your content so much. I sometimes like reading about $300 dresses and how to pack for European vacations, but I come back here and over and over again for my daily reminder of how to be content with less. You’re the best!
Awww, well, thank you to whomever gave the shoutout!
Kudos for thinking about the ethics of reselling a Freecycle item.
Ideally, I’d probably follow the rules and not resell the quilt, as the rules don’t have a qualifier that you can resell an item if you have made considerable improvements to it.
If I instead gave it away, I’d ask the recipient to also not resell it, but to give it away if they no longer need it.
I’m giving you official permission to sell anything you want to sell and keep anything you want to keep. Don’t waste your considerable brain power agonizing over whether you are a good person. You are.
Also, regarding the quilt, if you didn’t have a blog and post occasional intimate glimpses into your life, this potential buyer would have no idea you owned a quilt with sentimental value to them. Think of how weird it would be if you, for example, threw a party and a guest of a guest wanted to buy your bedspread after tossing their coat on it. You could simply reply, “I’m sorry. It’s not for sale.” And then maybe later you might ask the guest who brought them what their deal was because it’s a strange thing to do. What I’m saying is you may be confusing a feeling of guilt with the discomfort of having been asked something borderline inappropriate. I don’t know all the details of your past, but I suspect that this may be an issue for you in particular. You are allowed to say no, and furthermore, there are some things that you should not be asked in the first place. In those instances, the guilt should be felt by the asker and not by you, but this is probably easier said than done for you.
Ahhaha, yes, saying no to what someone else wants....that muscle is pretty flabby. 😉
So think of this as a low-risk way to exercise that muscle. 😉
That is pretty good insight into our friend and a great way of explaining it!
Just my opinion:
Give the quilt away
The bookcase: That's a lot of work you put into it. Think it's ok to sell but don't go too high with price. Perhaps factor in cost of supplies at the least and maybe your labor time.
I am in awe of you, Kirsten. Look at the beautiful home you cobbled together that gave your beaten soul comfort. I think it so cool that you did it with thoughtfulness, can do attitude and shared your journey.
Keep the quilt, it is cheerful and peaceful. It truly makes your bedroom look like a sanctuary.
Just because someone covets something that you rehabbed off of BN, does not mean you have to give it up.
Thank you! I do love my bedroom so much, and I think I love it extra because it was cobbled together while my life was sort of in shambles. 🙂
I'm so glad you decided to keep the quilt set. It is so you and so summer perfect. I am always delighted when you post a picture of your summer bed.
As far as any moral questions about whether it is okay to sell something that you got off of a website that disallows reselling, I think if the intent is just to resell then don't shop from neighborhood free boards. On the other hand, if you take something with the intentions of using it for yourself that is the purpose of a free board. If circumstances change and you no longer want or need the item then you should be able to sell it or give it away, whichever you choose.
I am firmly on the side of “it’s OK” to resell these items because 1) you didn’t ask for them with the intention of reselling them, 2) you put a lot of work into them, and 3) you’re still keeping them out of a landfill.
Someone claiming to have a sentimental attachment to something is not a good reason to let them have it. That sounds like a guilt trip to me. I'd say it's fine to sell something after some time has passed, but in this case I would not sell just because someone wants to buy it.
PS I just looked and there are many very similar quilts on eBay for less than $100, if the person is really interested. Your quilt is very pretty but it's certainly not rare.
Look for a new or new to you, quilt. Once acquired, give the existing quilt away. Yes, you invested a bit of time, used it 5+ years, as my Mom would say, "It owes you nothing."
I suppose many could think it’s a gray area. But listen time is money these days especially. OxiClean even the cheap stuff adds up. A lot of us have to pay for the water and sewer used when we clean things. About the only thing free besides the original item is the sunshine you used to help get rid of the stains. You did put a lot of time and you did invest some money in all of the items to make them look beautiful again, so I say go ahead when you’re ready to part with them, it’s OK to sell them
Kristen, dear, you seem to have inherited a Presbyterian conscience. So have I. (My father was originally Methodist and my mother was originally Presbyterian, but they decided to join an Episcopal church after they married. Nevertheless, my moral infrastructure is definitely Calvinist.) That said, by the imaginary powers vested in me, I give you full and free permission to do what you like with all of these things. 😀
I maaaaaay have spent my whole life in a Presbyterian church. 😉
I saw a quote online recently saying that Catholics think suffering is a virtue and Protestants think pleasure is a sin. Perhaps a little simplistic, but it rings true to me....my father's side of the family were constantly converting back and forth between Presbyterian and Catholic and disowning each other for it! Which does not seem very godly to me 😉
Aw, love, it definitely shows. As one Presby to another, there's nothing wrong with a small thing that makes you happy.
Lol! Love it. 🙂
So here's another thought: I know some people at thrift stores dislike it when resellers come into the store and buy a bunch of stuff. I've thought about it a lot, and I think I've come to the conclusion that I'm okay with it. Sure, I don't want them grabbing up all the things I might want/need, BUT there is so much secondhand stuff out there that we need that middle man to find a good home for it. Otherwise, the stuff often gets tossed. The reseller is an important part of the secondhand system which puts useful things in the hands of needful/wantful people. (Through history many folks have eked out livings by turning one person's trash into another's treasure.)
So I guess I'm opposed to the "don't resell it" rule because resellers aren't crooks; they are providing a service.
My take on this (and I haven't read all of the comments yet): I think there's a very fine difference between selling something you acquired on Freecycle/Buy Nothing *because someone asked to buy it from you*, versus acquiring things from Freecycle/Buy Nothing/similar groups that prohibit reselling that you then turn around and list to sell on Marketplace, eBay, Poshmark, etc. (Not talking about roadside free piles, garage sale leftovers that people give away, etc). My local Buy Nothing group specifically states no reselling *unless* the giver is okay with that, and the receiver makes it clear they will be reselling the item. (Some members state in their posts that they really don't care if you resell what they're giving away). If someone is caught listing an item for sale that they were gifted via our Buy Nothing without the giver being notified, they are thrown out of the group. This has actually happened. I sometimes ask for things that no one else asks for, and let them know I'll be donating the item to {xyz organization} or bringing to a local blessing box (if it's non perishable food) - the giver can then decide if they agree with that.
With your quilt - you fixed it , and it looks lovely on your bed. You should not feel guilty about keeping it! But also, in this situation, in my mind, you would not be breaking the rules if you decided to sell it to the person who asked.
Also an over-thinker. You did put time and effort into making it useable and "desirable" again. If you sold it, you could donate the money to a charity that you support.
Interestingly enough, we sold a easy chair that might have come into our house from Freecycle. I thought we bought it from a rummage sale but my daughter disagreed. Either way it sold for a small amount of money ($10?) and we kind of freaked after it sold. Her first and then me because that wasn't the intention if it was a FC chair. In the end we donated the money. But seriously we had the chair for over 5 years. I would not knowingly sell a piece that I got from FC or Buy Nothing. I would pass it on, even if I remodelled it. But for me it is a Karma thing. I agreed and that is that.
I think selling something you've upcycled is fine. I think upcycling is something buy nothing groups should be fine with.
Though tbh I dont actually mind if someone sells on stuff they got from me on freecycle/buy nothing. I prefer to give to someone who will use, but not bothered too much if someone is making money. So maybe other freecyclers would agree with me.
I am a rule follower and a Buy Nothing advocate. However, since someone approached you and asked to buy your quilt that you have used for some time already, I don't believe you'd be breaking any rules. Sleep well!
I don't think you can apply moral principles to this type of thing. Its a thing - an un-living thing. You own it. If you did not wish to continue owning it, for any reason you could very well sell it for whatever price you thought was fair for your invested time and energy. People making rules about things that belong to me, that I acquired fair and square? No. Selling it to someone still achieves the same end goal - its out of the landfill and being useful to someone.
I'm glad you didn't sell the quilt because it's beautiful and you deserve beautiful things. Frugal is one thing--selling things that bring you pleasure when you don't really need the money is another thing entirely.
As for things you've fixed up and owned for more than a few months, they now belong to you and I don't see anything wrong with selling them when you no longer want or need them. You clearly did not buy them for the purpose of profit. That's what they are trying to stop.
I think what you've said about giving the quilt to the person who wanted to buy it would be the right thing to do IF YOU WANT TO. Personally, I love that quilt and it looks perfect in your bedroom. I wouldn't give it up.
I don't believe selling things you get from Freecycle, Buy Nothing or Little Free Libraries is being honest no matter how much work or money you put into the item(s). Giving things away is one thing but selling items received goes against the established principles.
It's ridiculous posts like this one that feel so authentic and relatable, like we are chatting over coffee. That's why I've been reading all these many years.
Hahaha, this made me giggle. It feels that way to me as well...like, oh, I have a little issue I need to discuss with my friends. 😉 So then I write a post.
I think the point of the rule is to keep people from getting things for free, fixing them up, and immediately flipping them. They’re using the group as an income generator basically. This is definitely not the same thing at all! I think if you get something and use it for years - that is the point of the group. Also, you aren’t out there actively trying to sell the items you got from the group, someone approached you about it and offered money. I also don’t think it’s selfish to want to keep it. It’s beautiful and the fact that you like it is reason enough to want to keep your own belongings. I’m sure this isn’t the only one like it out in the world. They can stalk eBay or Etsy, etc for another one! I don’t even think this is a gray area, I think it’s completely fine!
Every time I see your quilt I think what a great find! The quilting pattern on it is called "Double Wedding Ring" if you didn't already know.
My two cents:
It's fine to resell an item that you added value to, through fixing, rehabbing, etc.
It's not ok to troll these sites specifically for items to use to turn a profit as a consistent source of income.
For example, that linen set - you originally picked that up for your own use, fixed it and removed the stains, then used it. If your life changed in a way that keeping it no longer made sense, you could sell it, guilt free, or donate it if you don't need the money.
On the other side, folks who are going through the site to pick up free stuff to fix up and immediately sell, with no real intention to use it for themselves... I personally don't think that's right, because it's not really in the spirit of the site.
Agreed on all counts!
believe it or not, as a child i had nothing but hand me down furniture. from my grandmothers. so i am a new furniture girl. i did not receive yesterday's post or today's in my email. i think you are a very moiral, honest person and your heart will tell you what is right. also where did the dog come from? did not know you had a dog.
i am feeling unloved at he moment. our apt is an oven so our synagogue hosted a shiva (part of the seven days of mourning) and only four people showed up. Ah well.
Wait, a dog? Where do you see a dog?
Ohhh, oh, in that first dresser picture. That's the original picture someone had posted on Freecycle when they offered the dresser! 🙂
that is too funny.
That quilt is gorgeous-- My personal opinion is this:
1) IF you got the free item in good faith, rehabbed it AND used it for a period of time (keeping it out of the landfill and doing what you promised to do) I would say it is OK morally to sell it. But--
2) Ideally, of course, the Free Manifesto would be to give it away again after you are done using it to keep up the cycle of karma. However--
3) IF you got the free item in good faith, rehabbed it AND immediately sold it then that is NOT OK.
My two cents
I think the rules don't apply in your situation. You always improve the item, saving them from becoming garbage.
I once sold a beautiful gift my grandma gave me for very cheap to someone looking for this item specifically. I thought a while on it, but the item was collecting dust and not being utilized in my home. It might as well be put to use in someone else's.
I've been overthinking a conversation I had earlier today, wish I had said this not that etc etc
I think since you got something free you should pay it forward and give it freely to someone else.
What I would do. 😊
I am an Overthinker also. Here’s mine on your situation: If this person is important enough to you that you care about their attachment to the quilt that you spent much time and effort on, you would gift it to them and you would have no moral conundrum. Being equally attached, they might gift you with a replacement that would then be equally heartfelt to you.
I think the difference is that you didn’t buy it for the purpose of reselling. I see nothing wrong with selling something you have fixed up and/or used for the intended purposes (aka personal use).
I think it’s a little bold for someone to ask to buy an item of yours that isn’t for sale, regardless of it having sentimental value.
If you upgraded/ rehabbed a free item, I think it’s perfectly fine to sell it
I think it would be fine to sell because it’s not the same item you picked up from Freecycle. It’s changed.
Regarding the overthinking, have you ever encountered the Four Tendencies framework, by Gretchen Rubin? There’s a free quiz, and lots of interesting reading. If you didn’t come out as an Upholder, I would be astonished. You will find that specific type of overthinking well documented there - the kind where you analyze the exact nature of the rules to make sure you’re following the spirit and letter of the law to the best of your abilities. ❤️
I would say if you got it, fixed it up, and enjoyed using it until it no longer served you anymore there's no problem with reselling. My guess is the motivation is to keep people who are out to make a profit from taking something from someone who needs it but may not be able to afford it otherwise.
Give it to them. At most sell it to them for a ridiculously low amount (like $5 to cover the cost of the materials used to repair).
If fixing something to be "saleable", you really just created inventory from a FREE item. At MOST, sell it only for what the items to fix it up were (ie: knobs for a dresser, etc.). Do NOT charge for your time. That would be bad karma IMO.