Help Maggie with a housing question!
Hi Kristen!
I love your blog that I started reading maybe a year ago! I've been pondering a question so much lately and thought maybe you have an opinion on this.
My partner and I live in a very expensive city that we love and where we work. Currently, we have a very affordable rent (because we live in a very small apartment that is not in a hip area, but it's still good).
When our first child will be a bit older, however, I believe it'll be very hard to stay here.
I am now constantly debating what is more important:
a) low(ish) rent
b) location, some kind of proximity to work
c) more space
I would love your input on this because I find your approach to these questions so inspiring.
Keep up the great blogging work!
Maggie
This is a question that would be easier to answer with more data.
(How long is your commute? How big is the difference in rent? What space concerns do you have?)
But given what you shared, I'll do my best!
In favor of lower rent
Since you live in a super expensive area, I'm assuming that a high rent payment would squeeze your budget pretty tightly. If that's true, then I would be inclined to try to stay where you are as long as possible.
If you can keep your rent as a smallish portion of your budget, then you can have so much more freedom in other areas. Without a huge rent payment, you could:
- travel more
- buy better groceries/get some takeout
- pay off debt
- save for the short-term and long-term future
In short, if you manage to keep housing costs low, everything else in your financial life will probably feel easier and less stressful.
In favor of location
Moving near work seems like it could possibly be a win in the stress department, but probably not the money department.
However, if you moved to a place near your work and you could ditch (or almost ditch) your commutes, could you get rid of a car? That would help to offset the increased rent costs.
If you didn't have such a long commute, would you have more time and energy to do things like cooking at home?
If you lived in a cool part of the city, would there be enough free things to do to make up for your tighter vacation/entertainment budget? (since the rent would be using up a lot of your money)
In favor of space
If your current lack of space is driving you nuts, then I definitely would not consider a move into a hipper part of town.
What you'd be able to afford there would certainly not be bigger than your current apartment!
I think I remember that you are pregnant with your first baby, and I can definitely understand wanting some more space. We lived in a one-bedroom basement apartment when we first became parents, and it was a bit of a challenge. I was really thankful when we moved into a townhouse with multiple bedrooms!
That said, there are creative ways to work around a lack of space, and you can usually get by with much less kid/baby stuff than you'd think.
Also, I think home space can be more or less important depending on how much time you spend there.
If you are homebodies or you work from home, maybe more space should be a priority.
But if you are always out and about, then maybe more home space doesn't need to matter so much.
(Since I've always worked from home and since our kids have always been homeschooled, space mattered to me more than it might to someone else!)
You have to decide what's most important to YOU
Given the limited information that I have, I personally would be inclined to stick it out in the low-rent situation as long as possible, and in that time, try to maximize the rent savings by paying off debt and saving for the future.
That way, you'll be in good financial shape when more space becomes a necessity.
BUT.
I think this is a question that should be decided based on your priorities and your particular lifestyle. You and your partner are the ones who know what you value most!
Readers, what are your thoughts on Maggie's situation?
P.S. Mr. FG and I lived in a $425/month basement apartment for the first 2.5 years of our marriage. It was not ideal (what basement apartment is ideal??), but on our small salaries, we were able to pay off every bit of debt, pay for some medical bills, and save up for a down-payment on a house, largely because our housing costs were so low. So, my advice to Maggie is probably colored by my own experience!
Hi! Long time reader first comment!
I think alot of time people think more space will be easier and it certainly is at times. Also consider the more you own the more can break, and the more time you will spend cleaning and maintaining. If your not a fan of cleaning and repairing that may be something to take into consideration.
I might also consider the amount of time you like spend outdoors vs inside and the weather you typically have to allow you to do so? Am i over thinking this? We have moved alot, so I think of odd things like this.
I would stay with the small space/low rent for now. If you go for the bigger space and higher rent you are going to want to impulsively buy more things to fill up that extra space and things for the baby. In the smaller space you think twice before making a purchase because of the limited space.
I would wait until sometime after the baby arrives to decide. That gives you a chance to see how your current apartment in works (or doesn't) with the new addition vs. trying to make such a big decision based on "What if." Personally, I would definitely want the cheaper rent while adjusting to the costs of a child/paying off hospital bills. (Caveat: Childless by choice, but I've watched friends go through this very decision.)
Re: work location, is remote work a possibility for either of you, especially coming off last year when it was the norm? Kristen's suggestion about offsetting costs by possibly ditching a car if the move does happen is a good one.
I'd also take a second look around your current neighborhood and see what outdoor spaces, businesses, or entertainment is available (hopefully, given varying restrictions) that you didn't know about before. Maybe you'll discover a hidden gem, plus you'll already know where to go when you need a break! You'll have to decide what's a reasonable distance for you to travel if nothing's immediately nearby. My daily hiking spot is a ten minute drive from our house ($525 a month, all bills paid except electric and internet, amazing landlord), but I'd be willing to drive much farther to keep this sweet deal going. But that's me, and as Kristen said, only you can really know what works for you! Good luck!
Proximity to work is very important if your child is going to be in day care. I used to commute 2 hours each way to NYC for work, which wasn't ideal when my children were born (but the job/money was too good to give up).
And what about schools? How are the schools in each area you're considering?
Space is possibly the least important, I think. I've lived in 4000 sf houses and 650 sf apartments and while lots of space is great, it isn't as important as people think. I grew up in a tiny 3 bedroom/1 bath house with 6 very tall people in it. There wasn't even enough room for everyone to sit on a sofa in the living room. But it was all I ever knew so it was no big deal and anyway, we were a happy family.
@Rose, I had to laugh about the 6 people and one sofa. I am also from a family of 6 but we had 2 sofas. Mum was stretched out on one and Dad on the other. We children sat on the floor with our backs propped up against the couches/sofas .
Thanks for featuring my question, so exciting! I appreciate everyone's input and thought maybe I should answer some of the questions and give some more info:
How long is your commute?
Mine 80 minutes daily, my partner can currently work entirely from home (but needs space for that obviously), but before that was possible, his commute was 120-150 minutes (and we don't know for sure if he will have to commute again at some point).
I can and mostly commute by bike which is important exercise time for me and 80 minutes is kind of my limit that I am willing to bike on a daily basis. I could work remotely some days but the apartment is too small for two desks so whenever I've tried, it's been quite a hassle.
How big is the difference in rent?
From what I've seen on the housing market, we would definitely double our rent if we moved to a place that could more comfortably accomodate our (future) needs. I should add that we are almost debt-free (some student loans that will be paid off within 5 years).
Maybe I also have an unrealistic or too frugal idea of how little or how much of a budget should be consumed by rent?
I am cautious not to always budget with our current jobs and situation because one doesn't know if job situations change or whether we always can work full-time etc. Would be interesting to hear what you guys think how much of a budget should go to rent.
Homebodies/being out and about
We chose this apartment because we thought we would be out and about a lot. Then CoVid hit. So it's hard to know/remember what life was like...With a child, I am also thinking we'll be at home a little more.
Schools
Rose is making a good point. Some day care centers we'd like are already out of the question because they'd be too far away. Time is an issue here since in order to get into day care, you have to have moved there before (and not a week before ;-)).
current neighborhood, outdoor spaces, businesses, or entertainment
Another good point I forgot to mention. We have a lot of stuff around here which is definitely a plus of this area. It's not the only part of the city that offers a lot, of course, but it's something we value and would be a reason not to move except to an area that offers a similar infrastructure of shops, entertainment, parks etc.
@Maggie,
Hi Maggie,
I think it is great that you are planning ahead and asking others to help by giving their opinions and sharing their stories. I am retired so I am not in the same life stage as you and your partner but I can answer your question about how much to spend on rent or mortgage. If you want to have enough discretionary income to live comfortably and not worry about food and entertainment I would highly recommend that you keep your rent/mortgage payment to no more than 25% of your gross income. This will not give you enough to travel extensively but you will most likely not do that in the next several years. You can push it to 30% if moving and eliminating another large expense. And I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who has commented that you honestly do not need a lot of space.
Congratulations and best wishes,
Shelly
@Maggie, babies are wonderful. Congratulations! Babies definitely do not need a lot so if I were you I'd stay where you are for as long as possible. Being debt free is a wonderful thing. It will help you be able to borrow later if/when you wish to buy a house or move to an apartment with a larger monthly rent. Also, is there a chance that you may either switch to part time work or leave your job to stay at home with your child? If so, staying in your current home makes so much sense. It may not be possible for your husband to work from home and have a toddler afoot so this may not be an option anyway. As long as you aren't needing to move to get access to a daycare that you want, you really do have the luxury of time. Good luck. Parenthood is an experience like no other. 🙂
Hi, Maggie,
I'll start with saying that I lived, from birth to mid-teen, in an above-a-garage apartment with two bedrooms, one bathroom, living room and kitchen. Our washer and dryer were in the garage downstairs. We were a family of two parents and three kids living there, so I understand lack of space, and I empathize.
Question to consider: How much disposable income do you have now, that you might no longer have with a child (daycare fees, etc.)? If you use outside childcare, the hours of the childcare center might help dictate how much commuting time is workable. Is your current commute reasonable? I used to have to use a private babysitter every Friday to get my kids from daycare, and pay her in addition to the weekly daycare fee, because my place of employment was open late every Friday at that time. A lower housing cost can help keep the new expenses from breaking your budget, but the commute to work could be a factor.
I agree with Kristen and her advice, knowing as much as we know about your situation. Stay awhile longer at your current home, if you can make that work, and take some time to see what you really need.
I have a five year old and live in an extremely high cost of living city myself, so went through these type of decisions myself fairly recently. I agree with the person who said to wait until the baby is born before deciding, because that will help you see how your lifestyle will change. With that being said, I’d (somewhat) prioritize low rent to help save money for future goals. (We did this and bought a house when our daughter was a toddler.) Commute time is going to be more important than you’ll expect though, especially as your child gets older. You’ll be looking at either more time commuting for them, or more time in daycare for them if you have a longer commute, and you may not love either decision. And shorter evenings make dinner /bedtime more challenging. Having your partner working from home will help with logistics because your partner can hopefully pick up your child and start dinner while you’re commuting, but it really stinks when you get home at six and need to put your toddler to bed at 7:30. A longer commute in the morning also makes getting your child ready for school more challenging. Plenty of people make it work and it’s fine, but I will almost always prioritize time over money when I can just because of what it means for my stress levels! I do love how you’re combining your commute with exercise though - I’d really love to do that and would be willing to spend slightly more time commuting for it. Space is definitely the least important to me - extra space just gets filled up with more toys and mess anyway. ;-). Like anything else with finances, it’s all about figuring out your priorities, and yours may look different than mine. (I’ve had friends move long distances for more space!) I’d wait until the baby is born though so you can make a more informed decision.
I think Kristen’s advice is great. I would emphasize that being realistic rather than aspirational is super important and sometimes challenging when you are looking forward to a baby. Think about what your relationship and your personalities are like right now and go in that direction.
If this place feels small now, it will feel tiny after the baby. If it feels far from work, it will feel like an eternity with the baby. Kids are amazing AND that first year after a little one tends to be a challenging adjustment. Also, be thinking about childcare (if you’re utilizing it-I have always been a working mom) because that will impact your commute, etc. after the baby comes.
I think it’s awesome that you’re continuing to rent through this time period. If you plan to buy eventually, I think waiting until your kid(s) are a bit older gives you flexibility. If parenting (and marriage) requires anything, it requires flexibility. Give yourself grace to make mistakes and change your mind. Regardless of where you choose, leases expire and you can then make a different choice with your new life experience in mind.
Congratulations to you on your new baby!
When we bought our house together, we chose the one that allowed DH to walk to work. It was an expense we never regretted. It cost lots more than other options, but the house is an appreciating asset. Car expenses are, well, expenses. It also gave us more time together as a family because of the lack of commute, which is priceless.
I feel that the one thing that trumps all of that is quality of the school district. Once you have a child in school making friends, you don't want to be caught in a school district you don't want to be in--I've seen a lot of people make that mistake thinking that's "years away" and then they're in a mad scramble trying to figure out what to do.
This is a good point - kindergarten will come faster than you expect! You’re renting though, so I wouldn’t worry about this for a few years unless you’re looking to buy something. And when you are, consider options though as your child starts to get to get older - private schools, charter schools, or any school choice options that your city allows. If you pay less money for a great house and have a shorter commute, then private school might financially make sense. If you’re less worried about space, then a condo in a great school district might make sense. And if you’re renting, then you don’t need to worry about it at all yet. Housing in a good school district comes at a serious premium where I live, but there are different configurations that can work.
And seriously, if you’re likely to be renting for a few years, then this isn’t something you need to worry about yet. Focus on daycare options for now.
@Katie, I was touring high schools before my son was pregnant--and my real estate agent thought I was nuts! My husband wanted to buy in a school district that would have been fine for elementary and middle school, but not high school. I convinced him to buy in the more preferable high school district and 5-minutes later my son is a college senior and we were very pleased with where we live. I've known a lot of people who didn't take that into consideration and were all of a sudden looking for a new home in the school district we want, and in fact we've had people knock on door hoping we would sell in order to get into the school district we're in.
@ks, Oh my gosh "before I was pregnant with my son"...
And if you don't plan to ever buy anything - that's okay too. But I agree with considering your school options where you currently live vs. where you might live in the future.
@ks, it’s so great that you developed such a strong plan for your family so early on! I think we’re looking at this from different stages in parenthood, which is always so helpful, and I think your point about long term planning is important. I just think it’s really easy to forget how overwhelming new parenthood is and how expensive homes in good school districts are in expensive cities today, especially as home and childcare costs have gone up a lot in the last twenty years compared to wages in a lot of places. When I was pregnant, I was worried about things like figuring out childcare, nursing and working full time, or how I was going to do my job while severely sleep deprived - if someone had suggested I figure out high school options, I would have panicked and cried. 😉 I think it’s easy to forget how overwhelming this stage is, so I just wanted to remind her to think about the future but also take things one step at a time. Anyway, this is just my two cents, and everyone is going to have a different level of planning that they need or are comfortable with. If she’s renting and isn’t imminently considering buying a home though, future moves at this point aren’t a big deal as far as a baby / toddler / preschooler are concerned. Even once she is looking to buy, it’s good to explore other options besides local public schools in case something else will be a better fit for their family financially and educationally.
Congratulations on the new baby!
@Wendy, such a great point! For many reasons, renting can be by far the better choice for many people. I shouldn’t assume eventual home purchase - I’m just in that stage where I just bought a house, so I’ve spent a ton of time thinking about my family’s priorities here. It’s so easy to inadvertently inject my own experience and perspective, when different people are obviously going to have different priorities - buying a home absolutely isn’t the best choice for everyone. 🙂 Just remember the key things - take things one step at a time, focus on your priorities for your family, and don’t worry too much about what others are doing. We’re all just making the best decisions that we can with the resources that we have. That looks different for everyone.
@Katie, All good points--I guess I should add that we opted for a smaller, older, and cheaper home in order to be in the school district. I feel so badly when people are panicked right before HS when they wish at that point that they lived somewhere else.
I'm not a parent; however, if I had school aged children a good school district would be a HUGE consideration for housing choice. Typically areas with good school districts cost more to live in. Personally, location is more important to me than space. I can make do with less stuff and space; however, I LOATHE a long commute to work (more than 15 minutes lol) and LOVE to be able to walk to the store and entertainment places. Of course you need to be able to afford the cost regardless; however, with all things being equal, I would sacrifice space for location but this a VERY personal decision as the Hubster would rather have more space than a good location lol Good luck with your baby and your choice-keep us posted : )
In writing to reinforce Kristen's comment that babies do not need as much "stuff" as you might think, (or might receive as gifts).
You will work out your own parenting style, of course. But do consciously consider whether the tiny baby ever needs to wear clothing other than onesies and sleepers, if stuffed animals are really important, if a stroller can serve as a baby seat inside the house, if changing the baby on a towel or blanket works without the fuss of a changing table, and so forth.
Where do your work colleagues live? Best wishes for a healthy pregnancy and delivery!
Hi Maggie,
Congrats on the baby. They grow up so fast. My kids are almost 13 and ten. A girl and a boy. We live in the rent stabilized apt I had as a single gal in NYC. 750 sq ft. Now hubby, kids and I are still in this apt. We all have our sections. The kids use one dining table as a desk. And our old dining table lives in a corner of the living room and doubles as a desk. Hubby works in Philly. He wants to be closer to work. The rest of us don't.
During the pandemic hubby worked from home on a desk on his lap on the couch. Sounds crazy but it worked. We also spent a year at his parent's 4 bedroom two and a half bath house. Never thought we would spend a year there but we all missed our home.
Our apt complex has several water playgrounds, basketball playgrounds, an outside free adult gym "playground" and many other amenities. As long as there is love I don't think space is that important. It is nice but not necessary. Oh and did I mention we don't have air conditioning? Only ceiling fans. When I first moved in air was not an option. When rewiring became an option I couldn't afford it.
For me personally, not spending a ton on rent is very freeing and makes me happy to donate to people less fortunate than I am.
Hi, Maggie! Congrats on becoming parents, how exciting!
I've lived in a wide variety of homes, from a 600-sqft 2-BR 1-BA apartment with my parents, sister, brother (he was born 9 months before we moved), a cat, and a dog, to a 3,000+ sqft house with a huge yard.
To Kristen's really good advice, I would add this:
1. How much time do you spend cleaning, and are you willing to increase that time commensurate with your space?
When my husband and I lived in a 900-sqft 2-BR apartment with our 2 kids, I could deep-clean the entire apartment in less than 4 hours. There just wasn't that much there to clean. A nightly 15-minute pick-up cleaned the entire floor of the apartment, and tidied the living room and both bedrooms. Cleaning the entire kitchen took all of 20 minutes (30 if I also wiped down all the cabinets).
In our 1800-sqft townhouse, if I wanted to do a deep-clean, I had to set aside at least a whole day. 15 minutes tided our living room, dining area, and lower level. Kids had to spend an additional 15 minutes tidying each of their bedrooms. Cleaning the kitchen was 30+ minutes every night. So basically - double the house = double the cleaning time.
We now live in a 3,200-sqft single family home (finished basement included in that calculation). We spend 1-2 full weekends a month cleaning and doing yard work, not to mention the extra time during the week to tidy or trim the grass, weed garden beds, etc. My husband spends about an hour every day cleaning the kitchen. Again - nearly doubled our living space = nearly doubling the time we spend caring for it.
I miss being able to just go for a 3+ hour bike ride every Sunday morning, to know that I won't need to spend that time doing yard or house work.
@EngineerMom,
Have you considered farming the work out? I always had a cleaning lady when my kids were growing up and we never owned a lawn mower. (Still don't--I have a service.) An hour a day cleaning the kitchen? That sounds like a whole lot to me.
@Rose, on the outdoor work - we bought the house because we wanted to work in the yard. One of my (many) hobbies is gardening! My husband mows the grass - I don't do grass. I actually enjoy the yard work, so it's not something I'd want to farm out right now. I like that I know exactly what goes on in and on my soil.
As for the rest of the house... it's something we're considering, but until we get everything organized with enough storage space for everything to have a home, even hiring someone to clean wouldn't solve the underlying problems related to stuff on the floor/counter! My family had a housecleaner who came every other week when I was in middle school, so I know that before someone else can clean the house, the people that live here need to tidy it first.
And the kitchen cleaning thing - we both alternate working from home (and pack a lunch even when we're working onsite), we have 2 kids who eat all 3 meals at home, and I love to cook and bake. So we typically run the dishwasher twice a day, plus accumulate handwash-only items throughout the day. Keeping the kitchen picked up and clean is an all-day thing - 5 minutes before/after breakfast, 10 minutes before/after lunch, 10 minutes before making dinner, 20-30 minutes after dinner is pretty typical, and adds up to about an hour. It's a shared chore (kids empty the dishwasher twice a day, husband typically does all the handwashing in the evening, etc.), but it's still an hour.
I calculated it out one time because I was trying to figure out how to make my life work better, so I was looking at how much time I spend doing daily things (because of some health issues, my body requires 2+ hours of heavy exercise on a near-daily basis, and I was trying to see if I needed to shift from full-time to part-time work to help accommodate that).
@Rose, This house was definitely a compromise for our family. I love the location, my husband loves how much interior space we have (and yes, he cleans, too, so this isn't a case of "he gets the benefits while I get the work), I love having control over my outdoor space again, we have some awesome neighbors, but we have more space to take care of (so my frequent biking had to give way to more gardening), the home is older so it's just... more lived in, and the previous 3 owners were sort of OK on maintenance, but not great, so we're having to repair or replace things that should have lasted longer if they'd been properly cared for.
We knew exactly what we were getting into, and I don't regret our decision to move at all - it was literally a lifesaver to be in this house and across the street from friends during the last school year.
But I do still miss some aspects of living in a smaller space, and given the opportunity when the kids are grown, it wouldn't take much convincing to move me into a 2-BR condo in downtown Chicago, or half a duplex in St. Paul, MN, or a tiny house on a farm in WI!
2. Maintenance costs. While this isn't as big of a deal on renting, it does still apply to the furniture and insurance.
With an increased home size comes other increases in costs - furniture, increased rental insurance, increased heating/cooling costs, etc.
Kids are incredibly adaptable, so this really comes down to you and your partner. As a child, I don't remember that 600-sqft apartment as being small. I remember that I loved piling on the couch with my family to watch a movie, or walking to the playground in our neighborhood. I loved cozying up to my dad while we cooked together in the tiny kitchen, or having big brunch gatherings in the shared back yard of the apartment building.
Also, I found that adequate storage helps a TON in terms of making space not feel small. I think the tiny house trend has been taking off not only because of the independence it allows, but because people are just sick of homes that feel like a big empty box.
Our 1800-sqft townhouse had more storage space than our 3,000-sqft single family home, because I got to design some of the space (we built the townhouse), and I had spent 3 years putting in as much built-in storage as possible. Our current home has a lot of square footage, but it's going to take years to get it to the same amount of storage as our townhouse had!
I would try to minimize possessions and clutter. I would try to stay exactly where you are for first year of baby life. Social media makes you think you need many things got a baby but you really do not.
I would then carefully plan for larger space. Can you work remotely from cheaper area?
I love all of TFG ideas and suggestions!
"However, if you moved to a place near your work and you could ditch (or almost ditch) your commutes, could you get rid of a car? That would help to offset the increased rent costs."
This is the best reason to go for location. Remember that location could mean "close to public transit" rather than "walking distance." Also I recommend you remember that lots of space is a newish concept and many of us grew up with less of it than is expected now. Finally remember that rent can increase, sometimes by a lot. If you push the upper end of your budget now you may find yourself in an unfortunate position later. Future you may thank current you for leaving wiggle room now.
I'm definitely in favor of a shorter commute. I know lots of people have very long commutes and they make it work, but I HATED it. I spent about the first six years of my working life with an hour plus commute each way, and it was rough. It wasn't quite as bad when I was single, though it was still an absolute pain whenever I had a doctor's appointment, had to take a pet to the vet, etc. Then there's the wear and tear on the car, plus gas, tires, and oil changes. When gas prices make a huge, sudden jump, it can really derail your budget. A gas shortage can become hugely stressful when you know that even filling up isn't going to get you to and from work for more than a couple of days.
After I met and married my husband, the commute was even worse. It was harder drive with more weather issues, but it also really cut into our time as a couple. He worked a rotating shift at the time, so that definitely made it worse. There were times when we literally wouldn't see each other for a week at a time because one of us had always left for work before the other person got home. Again, some people are fine with it, but we weren't happy not seeing each other for about half of the month.
There's also the time factor. When I found a job closer to home, I felt like I suddenly had an extra two hours every week day. For me, that's huge for things like cooking dinner at home, keeping the house cleaner (and, for me, a clean/organized house always seems to save money), and in general just being happier.
She asked about what is important as her child gets older. I've lived in a variety of locations, and worked in a variety of schools. I say look at the school district, if you plan to send your child to a public school. Decide what kind of school fits into your priorities for your child, look at the school's national report card, and talk to neighbors. This will be your child's main peer experience and educational experience for years. To me, that is more important than many other things.
@MommaL,
Not disagreeing but just adding that often, children have needs/interests you couldn't have anticipated before they were born.
Frankly, if I could do it all over again, I'd homeschool. Not because homeschooling is better, but because it would have suited my kids much better than traditional schooling. But I didn't know that then.
@Rose, Same here. Our son is all grown up now and doing great but school was a challenge at times..the “good” school district we loved in did not suit his needs,talents and interests.Homeschooling would have been awesome and if I had it to do over,I would definitely go that route. You can’t forsee your child’s entire future..I say just do the best thing for the whole family, year by year, and everyone will thrive.. you can’t make major moves dependent on a school or one element./In fact, my friend who DID move to a home in a “better” district for her girls had to overspend on the house and that lead to so much strife and sadness in her married life I can’t begin to tell you. They eventually had to sell. Our culture needs to emphasize and appreciate normal, affordable family activities, reasonable goals, and stop the “hollywood”lifestyle shows and all those reno shows.Most people can be really happy with an “average” life!
Congrats on the new baby Maggie!
My husband and I went through the same issue. We decided to move from our 2bd/2ba townhome in a high cost, high traffic area in favor of a single family home of 2000 sqft on an acre of land in a suburb of our city. Schools are far better, we have a large backyard where our son can play. Daycare costs are significantly lower here and we enjoy the slower pace of family life rather than the noise of traffic. We had so outgrown the townhome that it seemed that all closets, shelves and the attic seem to explode the day that we moved. We purged frequently while we lived there - about once a quarter, and even though we donated a great deal of items, we still felt that the space was not sufficient. The home we chose is not that much larger than the townhome but we have a garage, a yard with space to garden, and a playroom/office which is very useful for the stage our family is in.
With regard to the commute my husband works locally and I have been able to work flexible hours. Even though the commute is further mileage-wise, I travel in off-peak hours making the time less. Of course on the heels of the pandemic I will be working from home 90% of the time so this is a non-issue for us now.
I would encourage you to think carefully about what will best work for your family. This is a decision that my husband and I made after careful discussions over about a two-year time frame and for us it has been a great blessing.
I wish you all the best!
This is a bit tangential, but all the mentions of moving to a "good" district makes me sad. Everyone wants their kids in "good" schools. And by defining educational opportunities as "good", that inherently means there are districts that are "bad." There are a whole lot of kids in this country, who are disproportionately brown and Black, without the parental resources to consider moving somewhere with "good schools," and therefore are receiving "bad" educations. This means systemic inequality is being furthered by the very systems mythologized to lift folks out of poverty cycles.
If someone can afford expensive real estate in an area, the school district, the vast majority of the time, will check all the boxes to be "good." And that's not fair to those unable to afford access to a purportedly equal opportunity public education system.
Everyone is going to make the best choice possible for their kids, with all the resources at their disposal. I don't for a second think that we shouldn't. I just wish more folks were more aware of the narrative serving the inequities. I think an easy thing to do is stop calling schools "good" or "bad" and instead use "well-resourced" and "under-resourced." It's more clear language that typically actually identifies the true problem with "good" or "bad" schools. And talking about it this way can shift the collective consciousness when looking at policy solutions to address the issue.
I highly recommend the podcast, Nice White Parents.
@BeckyB, this is such a great point. I often use “good” as shorthand for “well resourced” when it comes to schools, but you’re absolutely right right that I shouldn’t. Thanks for the reminder that words have power.
@BeckyB, Actually in hour case, better didn't mean white or wealthy--it meant getting to go to HS in the neighborhood, rather than feeding into a consortium where most schools are 30 minutes away. To me, that's better. For others, the consortium is better--because it means their student can pick a HS for their area of interest (arts, science, etc.). But where I am the housing values are holding better--so the investment is a good one.
@BeckyB,
I nearly suggested my usual point below, which is look beyond test scores to judge how "good" a school district is (I guess I will now). My brother raised his kids in one of the "best" school districts on Long Island. Stellar test scores, etc. But the thing about that district is that it's home to the local university, and the professors' kids do very well in school, as do the rest of the upper middle class parents.
I raised my kids in a very diverse environment. We had children of plastic surgeons to homeless children and immigrants straight off the boat. Obviously, our test scores were not going to match those of the professors' kids on average. But I do believe my kids got just as good an education, if not better, than their cousins, and that's based strictly on academics--IB, AP, you name it--not just the soft skills they learned from going to school with a very diverse student population.
Study what programs the school district offers before writing it off in favor of one with higher average test scores.
@Rose,
Thanks for keeping the conversation going! I agree with you on all your points. Considerations should extend beyond typical achievement metrics.
@BeckyB, good point. choosing to stay or move into a disenfranchised area can be a way to be part of the solution by working with the community to improve opportunities for all.
@BeckyB, You are so right. Thank you for raising this point
Depends on the weather. If you can take your baby and toddler to a nice playground in a ten minute walk, you can stay where you are until #2 arrives..
Sq ft is irrelevant. It's how well-designed that space is and how clutter-prone you are that matters.
My husband hates his hour commute, but his work is in a very undesirable location. We live close to dance instead. I drive my daughter there 12 X a week for a total of 24 round trips. Living close to dance is far more important.
Seldom comment but...
I bought a one bedroom apartment almost 10 years ago, v small (710sqf), v central area (walkable to city - never worked in the city, alas, most of my career my work's provided a car to get to sites). I find it's been enough space for me - not enough space for me + a partner (loft style with no real walls or doors, and I'm early to bed/rise). Commute wise - it's varied as work locations have changed a bit but as a central location, I'm always against the traffic.
BUT, it's been great despite me thinking I'd have it for a 'few years' then marry and have a baby - and neither have happened. Now I date a guy with two kids, and it's our city bolthole for nights we don't have kids and eat out/go to shows. When we have the kids, I'm at his. When we move in together, I plan to keep it - both as a backup plan, but also it rents easily.
Whenever my husband and I are looking to make big changes we always sit down with paper and pencil and write a pro/con list to help us with the decisions we have to make. For instance, when we were looking to retire, we were waffling between full time Rv-ing and buying some acreage and homesteading out in the middle of nowhere. We made a long pro/con list on each scenario and it eventually pointed us to Rv-ing full time. I highly, highly recommend doing a list....and I can attest to how much it helps to SEE it on paper rather than just having a running list in your head. And don't be afraid to write down every single possible pro or con no matter how small. Sometimes it's those last few small things you wrote down that helps push you in a certain direction.
My husband and I have been living in an RV for the past 2.5 years with a big dog. If your pro/con list steers you toward staying in a small space, I also suggest that you use you tube as a resource (if you don't already) to help you figure out how to maximize your space. There are so many you tubers who live in small spaces and share their wisdom. Even if you aren't looking to become minimalist, you may find some helpful ideas from you tubers who share minimalist techniques. (We are NOT minimalist but we do live with less than the average American just because our space is limited. Yet I watch a lot of minimalist videos because I find it inspiring to be reminded not to clutter my space too much.) Even if you aren't going to RV full time or move to a European apartment, you could still watch you tubers who are in those situations for ideas about how to make your space work for you.
One last suggestion for making a small space work. Think outside the box. A lot! For instance, in an RV we use our shower to hold our dirty clothes hampers. We just pull them out each day when we shower and then squeegee the floor and put them back when we are done. A little inconvenient but it freed up space elsewhere. Maybe use your tub/shower to hold items that you just can't find room for. If you don't entertain much (or at all) then maybe you don't need an official dining room area. Use the dining room as an office/playroom/dog bowls & bed, etc and eat all meals in the kitchen. If you have 2 full bathrooms, use one of the showers as an extra closet by installing a rod to hang all of your extra clothing. In other words, inspect every space and redesign each space to fit YOUR needs, not necessarily following the builder's idea.
Good luck!
I found a very cheap apartment in providence years ago and stayed 10 years. It was near the bus line. I ate breakfast at the same diner every morning...my only luxury. Library near. Thrift store near. Fruit stands and grocery store and laundromat near. I repainted and fixed it up. Made friends with neighbors.
We live in a 700sf apartment that is a few blocks to town where we have the library, restaurants, parks, the train to NYC, all the good stuff. We also can walk about a mile to a huge hiking area. This means that we can share a car, easily meet up with friends, and always have mostly free things to do. Every time we think about moving for more space, we decide not to because we value the local experiences more than the chance to fit more stuff in our space. From a personal point of view it’s the right decision for us, and it’s probably a better option on the frugal side as our entertainment is almost always free local events, we have one less car, and a small space means you really think about purchases before you make them. We also appreciate the diversity of our town, and a have noticed that things are more homogeneous and there is more wealth signaling the further away from here you go.
There are no easy answers to the time- money-space trade-off. I think that you have to consider how you live and have to decide what is most important to you. When my 3 children were small, I insisted that we move into one of the best school districts in the state. Unfortunately, it was also one of the most expensive areas in the area, and this presented challenges. Although we found a smallish house that we could afford, there still were many months when things were super tight — necessities only. When they were teen-agers, I often wanted more space, but we could not really afford a bigger house in my little town. Despite occasional challenges, I have never really regretted this decision, because it was in line with what I valued. We have been in our home 22 years! I still like where I live.
Short and long term planning need to be in play. Keeping rent low and protecting your finances during these unpredictable times is important, in my opinion. Your baby will be little for a while so you have time. More space LATER?
Maybe keep what’s working for you for now,SAVE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, and keep your eyes and ears open for opportunities that may present themselves along the way: Someone moving and needing a quick sale, someone with a perfect rental coming up on market, friends who have space to share or rent, a fixer upper that you find.. who knows?
Short term I’d stay put with a longer term goal of finding more space WITHIN MY BUDGET, and keeping aware of when that comes available.
Right now our housing and rental market is nuts, so staying put in a good situation sounds safest to me.
All just my thoughts.. you have to carefully consider your desires, your emotional temperament, and your financial situation.
We live in NYC and just went through this decision making process (my twins are 2.5 years old). For us the options were to move to NJ/NY suburb or stay in the city which would involve higher rent. We have to move out of our current home bc it was partially subsidized by my job, and I am leaving for another position. What we realized was a lot of the suburbs did offer more space, but were still rather expensive because taxes are high. We would also need another car and entering the city would involve a daily toll plus parking. The commute would also be longer and require a lot of scheduling to avoid rush hour over the bridge. In the end, we decided to pay more for less space but stay in the city and reduce both of our commutes. That way we have more time for our family while also being close enough in case there were any emergencies with the kids. There are also so many public parks and playgrounds in the city and there are always children using them, which is nice. Ultimately, we will rent for two years and then re-evaluate.
I say stay in the low cost renting as long as you comfortably can, put all the extra money aside so you have a down payment for a house, THEN decide between space and location. Hubby and I started in a small 1 room apartment, paid off all our school debts, then I got pregnant. We moved in a townhouse, had baby #1 and #2. After 5 years, and after putting all extra money on the mortgage, we sold the house with 100 000$ to invest in a new one, our "dream house". 5.5 years later, our house is paid off. On very average salaries (maybe even on the low side actually). It can be done, but I believe in starting small and building from there.
My first apartment (post-college) was only $375/month. It was one bedroom/bath, and the rest was literally one large room with a kitchen on one end, couch on one end, and a table in the middle. The carpet was disgusting, the ceilings were low, and it was a little dim. But, I personalized it, it was cheap, it allowed me to get debt free, and I loved it for that. My vote is to stay where you are in the cheaper housing until you are debt free.