What's the green appliance choice? Repair or buy new?
On Monday, I posted about how we got our old washing machine repaired, and about how we plan to keep going that route as long as possible, since the washer is sturdy and should be repairable for a good long time.
So then in the comments section, we started talking about the fact that older washers do use more water than new ones, and that made me sort of stop and wonder if I'm really doing the right thing by fixing our old one.
(Obviously on the economic front, repairing is a win because our whole water bill for the entire household for an entire year is less than $250. So even if a new washer cut our household's water bill in half*, it would take FOREVER to pay for a new washer!)
*This is a generous estimate because the new machines are supposed to use 10-50% less water, and I am positive our washer usage does not make up even half of our water bill.
I did some poking around on the interwebs and found a distressing number of articles that suggested we green up our lives by replacing all of our appliances.
(!!!)
If our washer was unrepairable, then I'd definitely buy an energy efficient model, but it just doesn't make sense to me to get rid of a perfectly good washing machine and buy a newly manufactured one in order to cut back on water usage.
For one thing, the production of a new washing machine is going to require a heck of a lot of water and energy, and the same goes for the shipping of said machine.
And then I realized something that's the kicker for me. The new machines aren't built to last. So if I get rid of my workhorse washer, I'm looking at having to get a new washer every 8-11 years or so (Consumer Reports recommends replacing rather than repairing after 8 years).
I'm no subject matter expert, but given the energy and water usage required to build a machine and the trash production caused by throwing away our worn machines*, I just cannot believe that it would be more environmentally friendly to replace my washer with something that will frequently wear out.
*I read that the steel is usually recycled, but even recycling uses water.
Plus, since I wash pretty much everything in cold water, my wash loads don't put any extra electric load on my hot water heater...the only energy used is what's required to spin and agitate the clothes. Around 90% of the cost of a load of laundry comes from heating the water to use in the machine, so since I'm washing in cold water, the fact that my washer uses more water is not that big of a deal energy wise.
And though this has nothing to do with the environment, our repairman said that our washer works way better than most of the new machines out there.
I guess I'm just worried that I could pay a lot of money for a new "green" washer which might not save much water (10%, the low end of the estimate is pretty insignificant!), probably won't work as well, will wear out more quickly, and will be more likely to have repair issues.
At this point (feel free to convince me otherwise!), I still think that I want to keep repairing my washer as long as repair parts are still available. It makes good monetary sense, it makes good cleaning sense, and I still think it makes environmental sense as well, especially since I wash in cold water.
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As I said, I'm not at all an expert, so I'd love to hear what you think. Would you keep repairing my washer or would you opt for a new one?
Personally, I feel that the resources used to manufacture a new appliance outweigh the difference in water efficiency, energy use etc. Plus I really doubt that 100% of an old machine can be recycled, so I would always repair rather than replace when I can afford to. How many years of saving a little bit of electricity does it take before you've accounted for the energy and materials used in manufacture and shipping? Will the new machine even still be working by then?
I suggest you fix the old one. I regret getting rid of mine. I bought a new more efficient washer and it doesn't clean nearly as well and it takes forever to get through a load! I have been searching for a used one and will sell my newer model.
Wow! We are in the same boat! I hate my newer machine! It does a lousy job cleaning clothes. Whatever gains it is making in being a water saver it loses in electricity because the cycles take forever! We are in the process of looking for an older, quality washer.
We have had the same experience when we replaced our 11 year old washer, two years ago. The new one is much less sturdy, harder on our clothes and does not clean as well.
I can concur with this...our newer washer puts holes in our clothes...constantly. VERY ANNOYING. There are no rough edges or anything inside it, I checked. And checked again. And then kicked it. I miss our washer and dryer we inherited in our first house...25 years old if a day and it was great. We have had our current set for ten years and repaired it sooo many times, but still the holes and now it needs repairing again. . We should have moved our old set from the first house to this one...but who would think that made sense? Not us. :/
I'm inclined to agree with you. I work for a green and natural interior designer and one aspect of being green is buying things that don't need to be replaced often, if at all. It's a similar principle as not using plastic plates and cups (on a much smaller scale.) No, you're not wasting water washing them, but the trash output is much worse than if you are using real plates and cups. (I know that's not 100% the same, but similar principle.) In fact, my mom just replaced her very old washer (15+ years) with a Speed Queen. It's not high efficiency, but it is made to last.
Hi Kristen!
I started washing our clothes in cold water but one lady told me it's not a good idea on winter time? Do you do this all year round? or do you use warm/cold water instead?
I do use it all year round except for really, really dirty loads, and it seems to work fine for me. Maybe in a really cold climate it wouldn't work as well?
Did she offer a reason why it's not a good idea in the winter? It's not possible to judge the advice without knowing the logic. On it's face, it sounds like an old wives' tale.
@WilliamB-She didn't give any reason why, she just told me, it's not gonna help on winter. Maybe it's an old wives' tale,lol.
I've heard that unless your washer has a "tap cold" setting, it actually heats the cold water to a certain point because if the water isn't above a certain temperature it can't properly dissolve powdered detergent. (It may be only on newer models.) So, the only thing I can think of that would make any sense at all out of her statement is:
Either she's concerned that the detergent won't dissolve properly and therefore it won't clean well. (You could alleviate this concern by using liquid detergent.)
Or she's concerned that the "cold" setting will actually require significant heating in the winter to bring it up to wherever the machine's "cold" setting is, so you wouldn't see much energy savings.
That's all I can think of!
I bought a new very efficient washer from lowes when it was on sale. or clearance. It was $500, regularly $995. It is a front loader, and very gentle on my clothes.Its claimed energy consumption was $12 a year! It uses VERY little water. The old machine was needing repairs more often, and when the the motor went, and the motor cost $250, I went for the new machine.( I had replaced the brushes twice, and got 4 more years out of it) I recdently saw more new front loaders on clearance for $600. I can usually get someone to take off another 10% of any clearance item by just asking.
Keep the old workhorse! I myself have an older washer and have been thinking about replacing it so I did a lot of research...countless testimonials of the new machines not getting things clean, mold, mildew problems. Apparently with the newer machine a load takes 2x as much time. You have a pretty big household, who needs that kind of grief? New is not always better.
I'm so glad you repair and fix up the old one when it causes you grief. Ours quit draining one time and we had to call someone out to look at it because we didn't know what the problem was. Turns out it was one of my daughter's socks caught in the pump (and my sweet husband watched him fix it so we can do it ourselves next time!) Our repair guy told us we should hold on to our washer as long as we could because it was one of the last ones that was actually built to last. He rarely sees ones like ours anymore because everyone keeps upgrading to newer washers. We've had ours for a long time and plan to keep it around for a long time!
I appreciate all the energy and time you burned to provide this information to us Kristen. I really do!
I'd stick with the old washer. I thought I would do the environmental thing when I purchased my new washer and bought a low water usage top loader. I hated it! Most of the time I used it at the highest water level in order to get the clothes clean. When we were hit by lightening the computer in the washer was fried so we replaced it with a basic model washer. I am much happier and I think I use less water because I can use the low water levels on small loads.
I think I'm most surprised that your water bill is so low! Between water and waste, we easily pay $60+ every month...and that's with a HE front loading machine (and doing 2-3 loads/week).
I love the idea of keeping the old machine. I really dislike our front loader that got great ratings. I feel like our clothes are never really clean enough, so I end up having to use more hot water to really get things clean.
My water bill went down 85% when I replaced my washer. And instead of 4-5 loads a week I can do one to two. I do not miss the laundromat visits to wash all the big blankets and comforters either. We also have a good recycling program up here that took the old one to resell so I didn't feel too guilty. I think it depends on the reliability of the washer and the rates you're paying.
Wow! What low water bills you have! That blows me away. We almost never get a bill less than $100 for a single month! In the summer, we usually pay $200 or so. We live in AZ. No, we do not have grass. 🙂 We have efficient drip irrigation for what we do water. I have spoken with the city and they say our water usage is not excessive at all. Water is just expensive here, which makes sense. Keep you top loader. Front loaders like I have simply do not get the clothes clean.
Kristen,
Any laundry tips on how you get your clothes clean with cold water? Do you presoak, use laundry baking soda, etc?
I have active twin boys and it seems like every new piece of clothing gets permanently stained despite trying my best to soak and pretreat stains. I also avoid putting some clothes in the dryer in hopes that the stains won't set.
I'm not Kristen--hope you don't mind me jumping in--but I have toddler "twiblings" (16 months apart!) and even warm water doesn't always get out those food and dirt stains. I find that a good soak in a bowl of hot water and OxyClean will knock out most of it even if I forgot and already "set" the stain in the dryer.
If I were in your shoes, I'd keep it too!
Oh, how depressing! Replace every 8-11 years...our washer and dryer are both almost 8 y.o. We have had no problems with the dryer, but the front-loading washer has needed repair, but not for anything broken. The really fast spinning has caused small things (socks, cloth napkin, barrette left in a pocket and $1.12 in change) to get spun out of the drum and into other parts of the machine and clog various pipes. This meant that 1) it wouldn't drain properly, and 2) another time water could not flow from the drawer where the detergent goes into the drum with the clothes. We paid a repairman $80 for the first time, and the second time, my husband took it apart and cleared the clog (cloth napkin), because he had watched the repairman the first time. The machine cleans well, and I primarily use cold water. I hope it lasts more than a couple more years, though. We are thinking that if we sell our current home we would let these go with it, and get simpler models that are less prone to mishap.
I will convince you to keep your old machine until it can't be repaired anymore. A couple of years, we ran into the same thing. Old 25 year old washer just died and the parts were going to be so expensive, we we bought a kind of new machine. No agitator.
Its a good washer, don't get me wrong, BUT......when its time to wash sheets, every......single.........time it gets out of balance. Even though I place the sheets in there they way they recommend. Since there is no agitator, all the sheets roll up in a large ball. When I hear that sound, I run to the machine (and just stopping a new machine today is not as easy as opening the lid) go through the process of stopping it, rearrange and hope that works. Sometimes I have to do it a couple of times to get through a cycle.
Since there is just the 2 of us in the home, we don't have a lot of jeans. But I have heard from others that if you put in a few jeans, the same thing happens.
My machine is a top loader and I thing the front loader machines there wouldn't be that problem.
Sorry about all the misspelling. Spell ck gets me every time. 🙂
I have a similar machine - LG brand top loader HE machine with no agitator, and it also has "issues" with sheets. I wouldn't say that I've completely solved the problem, but I have made it less severe. Here's what I do.
First, I avoid putting sheets in the same load with heavier stuff like towels or jeans. The sheets take up space but are very light, so if you put them in with things that are heavy the load will get unbalanced EVERY time.
Second, I make sure to put the sheets in so each one is sort of crumpled up against the side of the washer, as opposed to just tossing them in or letting them go across from one side to the other. If I don't do this, then the whole load of laundry ends up wadded up inside the sheet in one giant ball and it gets out of balance rather quickly.
This hasn't completely solved the problem, but it's made it much, MUCH better.
The other thing I've considered trying is to get some of those net-like laundry bags and put one sheet inside each one. That way the sheet would be contained and couldn't serve as a "wrapper" that the rest of the load can get caught inside of. I haven't found any that are big enough to accommodate a king-sized sheet though.
Yours in sheet sympathy,
Cat
Have you tried buying two of the largest you can find. Ones that open straight across the top. Sew the edges together at least halfway around (as much as you can, while allowing you to add and remove sheets.) To close use sturdy safety pins.
That could work... Or course, if I'm gonna make something I might as well just go to a fabric store and buy some sturdy nylon net fabric and start from scratch - that way it could be any size I want. Maybe a drawstring would work to hold it closed? I'm sorta afraid what would happen if the safety pin came un-done... envisioning a rogue pin wreaking havoc with the hoses or something.
Actually... you just gave me an idea. I wonder if stuffing each sheet into a pillow case would work. Not sure if they'd get agitated enough to get clean that way... maybe an extra large pillow case for the king sized sheets. Hmm... I see some experiments in my future! Thanks for the idea!
When we move I plan on leaving or selling my washer and dryer and buying a combination washer/dryer. I usually line dry my clothes and so it doesn't make sense for me to have a completely separate dryer for the occasional times I use it, although I do use it occasionally so I don't want to go completely without. A duo machine makes perfect sense to me.
Kierstin,
I have a one machine washer/dryer combo from LG. It is a large size model. I love it. I rarely dry my clothes as we have a walk out attic that I hang dry clothes in year round. However, when I do use the dryer feature I have been very happy. I can throw a load of laundry into the washer/dryer and come home to dry laundry when I get home.
I used to have a Haier washer/dryer and the washer part worked fine but to dry effectively I had to stop the machine between the wash and dry cycles to pull all the wet clothes off of the drum, shake it out, and toss it back in. If I let it wash and dry without shaking the clothes out between cycles, the clothes would dry against the drum and be really wrinkled and cruchy. Does that happen with yours, Lisa?
Your reasoning makes sense to me. I think that so often, the key is USING LESS rather than getting something new, whether that's with appliances, cars (I have a 99 Accord--a brand-new Fit would use less gas, sure, but we drive few than 5K miles per year) or personal care/household items.
I am certain repairing is the right thing environmentally too. We just finished with a front loader washer that was energy efficient; it was here when we moved in 5 years ago. The front rubber boot was starting to look moldy already, and we tried our best to take care of it. But I hated the washer, compared to my OLD one in our old house. Maybe it saves water (and we don't pay for cold water usage here in our part of Canada), but I don't see how - for cold water washes -it doesn't use more energy. Instead of 40 minutes, this thing took 1 hr and 40 minutes for a regular load. Seems to me, that is a lot more electricity usage. When the boot started leaking, we bought the cheapest most basic washing machine on sale (from Sears) and also got the 5 year extended warranty to go with it. Very happy so far with it (4 months so far); and don't miss any of the fancy features of the old one at all.
Yes Debbie I agree with you and would say the same to you Kristen. I have three washing machines (long story) and I much prefer the older models to my HE machine for all the same reasons Debbie and others have stated. Water is not an issue because we have a bored well and although I know environmentally it isn't good to waste water the HE model has failed miserably in almost every other respect. Also, anyone who does go with an HE machine make sure it is in a dry place (not a basement) and FOLLOW the instructions carefully for cleaning.
I'm very happy with my 4 yo front loading HE washer. It does a great job, even with homemade laundry detergent, and hasn't had a single problem. I don't know why they get a bit mucky in the door seal but wiping after use and keeping the door open when not in use (neither very difficult to do), has done the trick for me.
The regular wash is 45 min and I really like how well it spins the water out of the clothes = less energy used by the dryer.
Just as it is with so many things they don't make 'em like they used to. I've had both a new front loader and old top loader and I would take the old a thousand times over.
I have the washing machine that was in my house when I bought it 27 years ago. I've had it repaired three times during that time and at one point the repairman told me the washer was in great condition, would last for quite a while longer and was definitely worth fixing because a new machine would not last as long. I think the repairman told me the washer was a 1976 model, which means I and the previous owner have gotten almost 40 years out of it!
On another issue, I also wash just about all my clothes in cold water. Occasionally I will wash a load of whites in hot water, but only occasionally. I haven't noticed any change in how clean the clothes look since I started using cold. And I live in the northern US, so the colder weather hasn't seemed to affect the outcome.
Our front loader is almost five years old now. We have a well, so no water bill. Still, the fact that this washer uses considerably less water than our old top loader does mean that our water pump runs less, so there is some savings there for us. Fixing our last washer wasn't an option for us. It was a lemon--we had nothing but problems with it for the few years that we owned it.
There are a lot of factors to consider when trying to figure out whether to repair or replace. It's not a one-size-fits-all decision. I think the key is to do your homework. You knew that your washer was one worth fixing because you checked it out. Had we done that with our very first washer, we might have ended up repairing instead of replacing. Instead, because we found ourselves suddenly without a washer unexpectedly, we ran to our Sears store and tried to replace our washer with the most similar model we could find. We didn't do our homework, and ended up paying the price. We learned our lesson and researched a lot of washing machines before buying the one we have now. Knowing what you pay for water and how much of that is from your washing machine enables you to find out what kind of a savings a new washing machine will bring you. For some people, that is a huge factor. Knowledge is power--power to make the best choice for your situation.
Keep the washer till the repairs get expensive.
However, you missed one source of savings with a new washer. New efficient washers are much better at spinning out the water from the clean clothes. This means less time and energy in the dryer. And using the dryer is easily the most energy-intensive part of doing laundry.
Good point.
I would definitely just keep fixing the old washer, because the new appliances are JUNK! We are very frugal and were able to pay off our home about 5-6 years ago and paid cash for a new kitchen remodel. So I recommend just fixing old, well made appliances until they totally die. And save your money for really fun things.
At this point, with my positive "old washer" experiences and negative "new washer" experiences...a totally dead old washer would have to rusted out so that it cannot hold water any longer. 😉
One thing to consider - getting water to your house is a very energy intensive process. In fact, water usage is one of - if not the most - energy intensive processes there is. Pumping it out of the ground, treating it, pumping it around the city etc, is suprisingly energy intensive. So your actual water consumption isn't the only environment-related thing to consider. Does that mean you should replace? I'm not an expert on the topic or the infrastructure in your area to say for sure :).
But, overall, I think you're making the right decision, as this is an age old question - which activity is best for the environment over the entire, full lifecycle of the process? - that even experts aren't always on the same page about. It's a tough one, but at the end of the day, we all have to keep doing what we can, consume less (whatever that looks like for you), and not let perfect be the enemy of good. 🙂
Hmm. That's a tough one. Recently my 17 year old Maytag washer died, and we bought a new high-efficiency top-loader. At its age, I figured it wouldn't last all that much longer and the repairs can be pretty pricey (last summer a fuse in our drier went and it cost about $150 to fix).
It probably would have been more environmentally sound to fix my old one, but financially I wasn't sure it was worth it. Also, the new machine has a much larger capacity so I am doing fewer loads of laundry, and I'm using less detergent. Also, my clothes are coming out WAY WAY cleaner now...I think the old one was doing a crummy job.
My frugal/environmental tip though - if one goes, just replace that one and keep the other until it dies. It might look prettier to have a matching set, but it seems wasteful to throw away a working machine, and it's definitely not the frugal choice.
I think the answer is: it depends. In some cases it truly does make the most sense for the planet and the pocketbook to buy new, since there are appliances which can vastly improve energy usage as well as carbon footprint and performance.
For example, we inherited a 1970's packet AC and Heater with our house ten years ago, and, while we use it sparingly, it is an energy HOG. It is loud and eats propane like a monster. A new system has the potential to save us $200 a month in the winter, AND is smaller, quieter and uses energy more efficiently. We have already rebuilt the 70's unit twice now and are seriously thinking of upgrading.
Another example, also something we inherited with our house: an antiquated freezer and 40 year old refrigerator. I did the math and figured out it WOULD be energy efficient to replace the old with the new. Plus, Edison picked up the old appliances for free AND gave us a rebate check for $200. On top of that the new refrigerator was FREE since I used Home Depot gift cards that I had saved up from frequent flyer miles and AMX points.
Meanwhile, like you, we are still limping along with our vintage Kitchen Aid washer/dryer set, which we try to use as economically as possible: full loads, cold water washes and line drying when possible. In fact I think we may have the same model of washer as you do!
Kristin, my own experience (almost 30 years running a household which included four boys) compels me to agree with the repair-til-it-can't-be-repaired-anymore strategy. At least with a washer! We were "fortunate" to buy a lemon as our first washer, which lasted less than three years, and that with frequent repairs (thank goodness for warranties). Our next model has been the picture of health. Buy proven quality. If you have a quality machine, DO NOT REPLACE IT UNTIL YOU MUST! Appliances are workhorses, not fashion accessories 🙂
When we recently replaced our fridge (after 17+ years!), even the salesperson remarked, "Don't expect a new model to last that long..." I don't, but I will do all I can in the way of maintenance to stretch its longevity.
My 22 year old Kenmore died in 1994. I chose not to replace it but joyfully do laundry for two adults by hand. I sold the mostly unused dryer practically the next day because it was hardly used. I line dry using clothes lines, clothes pins and a plastic storage bucket that are over 50 years old and inherited from Grandma. Whites are hung in direct sun light and darks are hung inside-out in the shade. During the winter in this frozen tundra I use racks in the house because we're running the furnace anyway. I continue to trash-pick and repair racks when I find them and have quite a collection. There is no "back-breaking" work because I use two 3-gallon white deli buckets picked out of my neighbor's trash pile and fit perfectly in my deep double-bowled kitchen sink. I have no wrist or hand pain ever from wringing items out manually. I use a measured 1/2 tsp. of homemade detergent weekly with about 4 gallons total of cold water which is then recycled to flush the toilet. I do not need to iron anything because I give everything a good shake before hanging. I do admit to making 4 trips a year (every calendar quarter) to a lovely small business laundromat owned by the same family for at least two generations that is not open on Sunday so it feels good to have my $$ going to them. I do bring the items home to line or rack dry which saves a lot of $$ as most of the cost of the laundromat is using the dryers. My one big triple load of whites cost me $3 per visit. To weird me, this is an almost a spiritual experience and gives me time to focus on simplicity.
Comfortably living below the poverty level off this wasteful culture.
Kudos for hand washing!!! I did laundry by hand for nearly 6 months after my 1964 Kenmore finally gave up the ghost. For the most part I enjoyed it. I bought an agitator/plunger thing and it really worked well, and if you do small loads as things get dirty it's really not a big deal.
The problem, as I'm sure you know, was bedding. When you have lots of cats, you're inevitably gonna end up having to wash the bedding more than in a pet-free household, because... well... I'll spare you details, but they can have "issues" on both ends, especially when they're either really young or really old. After washing a king-sized comforter in the bathtub a few times and trying to get it even wrung out enough to put in the dryer... Oy! I tried the laundr-o-mat, but... well... cats don't always have good timing with their accidents, plus... last time I brought all the bedding in, I went through nearly $40 in quarters! Holy Moly!
Finally I caved and bought a super giant capacity top loading HE washer. It does a great job with the bedding and I feel rather spoiled. But it takes FOREVER to dirty enough stuff to fill a load, so I generally only do about one load per month, especially since I don't have any cats with "issues" at the moment. Of course, favorite items get washed by hand as they get dirty. Anyhow, I consider the washing machine a nice luxury to have, but it's absolutely a luxury, not a necessity in my book. I'm hoping that by using it sparingly I can make it last... OK, maybe not 40 years like the old Kenmore did, but hopefully at least 15-20.
Thank you for keeping your washer out of a landfill. And for not having to replace with a new one in 10 years. There are no perfect energy efficiency choices. We do the best we can.
I agree with all that you wrote. Although it is not a bad idea to be conservative you actually are with you money in this particular case. I would not stress too much about what others say. We can each have our position and be right, all at the same time, for various reasons! P.S. I also own the same machine & have spent very little money over the years on repairs and am told that it is way better than anything new out there. P.P.S I think my machine is older than yours!
When I was in Iraq the first time I washed my uniforms but putting them in a large shallow bucket, adding water and detergent, them marched in place all over them for 20-25 minutes barefoot listening to my iPod. Then I hung them up to dry. This worked surprisingly well. As a civilian washing more laundry I might wear clean wet weather boots so as not to damage my feet.
Ha, good idea! I did a similar thing while studying in West Africa. Let's just get rid of all the silly machines.
Oh, goodness. I can't imagine doing this for a six person household! I mean, it's a noble thing, but I'd NEVER be caught up on laundry.
I think, in that situation, you have the ~kids~ tromp all over the laundry.
True...but the mess and the filling of buckets and such for six people's worth of laundry just does not appeal to me.
(The No Impact Man kept a lot of the changes he made in that year, but the washer is something he went back to joyfully after a year of tromping his family's clothes in the bathtub. And there were only three people in his household!)
I agree with you, as long as your washing machine is repairable and still works well, it is more cost effective and environmentally sound to keep using it. The water savings are negligible and do not balance out all the other stuff ( energy and water usage required to build a machine and the trash production caused by throwing away our worn machines). BTW I love your blog - I have been living frugally for years, at times by necessity, at times because its who I am and what I enjoy doing.
I think you are spot on. It works good, last longer, and the water savings (like you said) is minimal. Personally I think some people switch the old work horse appliances because they aren't as "pretty" but not me!
Great Blog!
I'm holding onto my washer as long as possible - dryer too if I can. I don't want to mess with fussy wear-out-quick controls (mine has turn dials and very simple to figure out) and I don't want to re-wash loads or deal with that smell around the seal I keep seeing posts about. the dryer I would consider though I do kinda like having the matched set.
I also wish I hadnt' had to replace the toilet- would like all new but the water pressure isn't great where I live and the water efficient ones often take 2 flushes just for tp..how is that saving water?! I cut back water usage in other areas - I don't water all the time like some do in my townhomes, I don't wash my car every week like one neighbor did til they moved (he'd wash 3 vehicles weekly most of the year). I do water if I plant stuff but not excessively.
I have to look at my saving money as well as conservation - I'm not willing to fork out thousands of dollars for another machine - it's just me washing my own stuff - if I did 100 loads a week then maybe I'd re-think things but for the amount of washing I do it's not worth it financially to me.
We purchased our Maytag washer and dryer about 7 years ago and simply love them. We have the benefits of larger load capacity, less use of detergent, less water and less dry time because the newer washer are designed to remove as much as water as possible (some of the machine sound like jets taking off, lol). I do love the fact I can put my over sized CA King comforter in the machine without worrying about trashing the machine, that was the guild line I used when we where looking for a new set.
Of course it is just the two of us that use our machine and we take very good care of them by following manufacturer's guild lines. The only thing that posses any issue for my Honey is that her clothes tend to twist up due to her size. I don't seem to have that issue. As far as dry time, I know that when I wash my comforters I usually take them out every so ofter to unroll them otherwise, like most dryers, you wind up with a wet center. Oh, I forgot to also add that on the dryer we have a sensor that read moisture. Once the sensor reads no moisture it turns itself off even it you have set it on a timed dry. I love this feature because I really don't like damaging my clothes due to excessive heat.
Until it starts needing repair every few months and the bill is hundreds of dollars, keep the old washer! When my old when gave out a few years ago it was going to be expensive to fix so I bought a new high efficiency machine. I have not noticed any decrease in my water or electric bill. 🙁 And you know who wants you to buy new appliances for the environment's sake....companies that sell appliances!
In our case, it was a no-brainer, because our dryer caught fire and ruined both. Teenager catching up on laundry without emptying the lint screen? Hmmm...At least he didn't burn the house down.
Due to the poor performance reports for front loaders, we opted for an energy efficient top loader. They can handle bigger loads and are supposedly more reliable. We put it to frequent use and are very pleased so far...Yes, it may use less water, but I suspect the electricity consumption is roughly the same as your older model, because the cycles are longer.
OTOH, when we bought our new house, there were very few refrigerator options that would fit into the existing cabinetry. We learned counter-depth costs more, holds less and the reviews are generally bad. We chose a model w/ no outside water or ice dispenser. We are planning to take good care of it and get ten years use out of it. With youtube and internet parts suppliers, DH can fix anything. Here's the kicker: the best price we could find was $2600. If it lasts ten years, that's $260 per year! Unbelievable, and that figure does not include any repairs that might be needed along the way.
Therefore, I am 100% in favor of your decision to keep your washer and repair as feasible. Ditto for your fridge.
I've never heard of anyone repairing a refrigerator before, but apparently there are times when it is possible. That's a nice thing to know. The price of a decent refrigerator nowadays is jaw-dropping.
We repaired the old one in our first house once. It was so worth it. At the time the repairman told me to never buy any appliance with bells and whistles because that is the stuff that breaks first....ice in the door, computerized settings, fridges that talk to you, super sensitive dryers...all stuff he repairs constantly. That fridge was old and had a small leak...he fixed it in less than an hour and I think it cost $100? It was several years ago. We never had to replace that fridge and when we moved and renovated a kitchen I died a thousand deaths at the cost of a new fridge...which, of course, had no ice in the door or computerized anything. Great fridge.
Oh my goodness! Thank goodness you guys didn't get hurt.
Replacing would seem to be the wise option in such a case. Ha.
For your situation it sounds like you are going the right route. In our case we had a Whirlpool washer and dryer that we bought new from Lowe's four years, that never worked right from the beginning (we think they were returns that they sold to us as new). We finally replaced them this year and there was a noticeable difference in the amount of time my wife now spends doing wash. So in our case we had to replace; if I was in your situation, with good equipment to start with, I would repair. Good luck.
OK, This totally demands for me to speak up. We had an old washer that used water accordingly. I could run the loads through and they were clean and properly rinsed with one cycle. The machine started leaking, and we bought a new "green" model. I'm all up for the environment so I was happy to get this new "green" machine. We purchased the highest consumer rated machine at the time. Once I got this this home and started using it I found that I was not saving water, but wasting time and energy! My clothes were not coming out as clean, and at first started developing a dinginess to them. I later found out that this was because despite the fact that I was using half the suggested amount of HE detergent my clothes were not getting rinsed properly. Also, I was told the new washer would be gentler on our clothes and keep them looking newer longer. NOT SO! the clothes get "cleaned" in these machines from friction with other clothes. HARDLY a "gentler" method. So I have now had said machine for almost 5 years so I have figured some ways to "deal" with this machine. ALL are ways to USE MORE WATER because without it, the clothes don't get clean in this thing! I was trying to SAVE water! OK so here are the tips if you are stuck with a huge pile of junky HE washer. I use cold water washes as well to keep things cheaper, and to be gentler on my clothes because this washer and routine to get them clean is harder on them than an old washer. Depsite the fact that I got the largest machine I could in this line which is large enough to supposedly wash a king sized comforter (HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah right!!), You cannot load these washers with much. If you load any further than 1/2 way up the tub your stuff wont even get wet! Let alone clean! (that's water wastage #1, can't do large loads)OK So first you have to run your clothes thru a rinse cycle, this is NOT optional if clothes are actually dirty. IF you wore it for a few minutes and didn't get gross in it or wear deodorant while wearing said article, or drop anything on it then you could probably get away without using this. There is no soak feature on my particular machine, and I have a large family with 3 small kids so we have a lot of junk to clean off. The rinse cycle gets the clothes wet so they can start to soften up to release the junk. Next I generally select the whites cycle and use cold water as stated before. Since there is a lack of water to really soak in and let the detergent do it's job clothes need the longest "wash" they can get. Same rule applies as above if you're clothes aren't actually dirty you can use the normal cycle. Next I ALWAYS have to use the extra rinse cycle(water wastage #3). Without this my clothes get a build-up. You can tell that you have build-up pretty easily on even dark clothes, and even before you get graying. Fabric softener is not needed if clothes are properly rinsed. They come out fresh and super soft. If they are not rinsed properly, they feel rough and hard. This hardness/crunchiness is the soap hardening on your clothes. Since I already use less detergent than suggested I HAVE to use this extra rinse cycle. Sometimes more than once if I put a few too many clothes in it. Oh, and if you cloth diaper like I do, (this is the absolute worst water wastage) you need to FULLY rinse out ALL your diapers before they even get into this machine, I only use 1/4 of suggested amount of Rockin' green (a specially formulated clean rinsing diaper detergent) then still expect it to be an all day job to rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse, rinse and on and on and on! The gals with the old style washers don't have to hand pre-rinse to the point I do, and they do 1 normal pre-rinse in the machine, then a hot wash with detergent, then 1 normal extra rinse and they are done! I'm POSITIVE than I am using more water with my "green" machine than they are! Just due to how many times I have to run them through cycles to rinse the residue out; unless you are ok with your poor baby getting horrible nasty rashes from caustic detergent residue on his diaper. I know this all sounds pretty terrible and I don't want to be complete negative here though so there is 1 frugal incentive here, its not saving water or your clothes bill from a better wash......You use a TON less soap! 😀
Wow, what you stated makes me wondering what brand machine you choose. I don't have any of those faults on my machine and I have a soak and an extra rinse should I choose to use them. I know when I went to purchase my machine I took my larger comforter with me. I generally deal with a local company who has helped me for years in regards to mine and my clients needs. The sale person did in fact tell me that any of the machine could do my comforter with no issue. However I made sure that there was at least 1/10 of the drum empty because I knew already that cramming it full would accomplish nothing. As I said, I am very please with our choice of machines. It is unfortunate that you have had such a terrible experience with your machine. 🙁
It's a maytag. It was the highest rated we could afford when we bought it, and we are researchers. We don't make purchases without reading everything we can find about the item. I don't think it has anything to do with the brand though. Several of my cloth diapering friends got so fed up with their HE machines they sold them and got old used ones! I would have too, but my husband couldn't see that since we paid so much for this one ( It was about $1000 when we bought it), and he says it works fine for him, but he only washes 2 articles of clothing (literally...no joke)at a time regardless of the machine, and he is a super clean kind of guy so none of the dirtiness I spoke of earlier on his clothes unless he's been doing yard work, or the baby throws food that hits him, so he can use the normal cycle. If anything actually gets dirty he gives it to me cause I'm the laundry queen around here and I get all the tough stains out no matter what my machine wants to do. ;P
Ay, ay, ay....I feel for you. I haven't had any of the horror story experiences others have had with their front loaders. Ours is an Amana, and was one of the top rated washers when we bought it. It has some nice features, such as a quick wash option that cycles in less than 30 minutes. The longest cycle is about an hour and a half, and I use it only on the worst of my laundry. You can definitely save on laundry detergent. The first time I used the "superwash" setting, I forgot to put any detergent in at all. I realized it when I took them out and they had no detergent smell. The clothes were CLEAN. (But I do still use detergent, except when I forget.) We've also not had the odor issues that others complain about, but I do leave the door open when it isn't in use. The thing I miss most is the soak option. My washer doesn't have one, and I truly wish it did.
What a frustrating situation to have to deal with! It really sounds like you got a bad washer. Been there, done that, just not with my current washer.
I'm with you on repair as long as possible. Our front load washer is one of the originals with very few bells and whistles. We had to get it fixed about 3 years ago. At the time, the repairman said it should continue to work well for a really long time. As it has only a couple of dials (no buttons and computerized selectors) there are fewer parts to fail. No need to upgrade as we would end up with more frequent repairs...saving money is just as important as environmental issues...in my mind.
I totally agree that keeping your current washing machine makes sense. Even though they do use more water, I think they get the clothes cleaner and last much longer than the new machines. And to get a new quality washer is very expensive. You are doing the right thing.
My car - which is almost old enough to legally drive itself - gets lower mileage than newer cars. When I get a new(er) car, I'll get a fuel-efficient model and recycle every last recyclable part of my current car. Until then, I'm going to keep driving Ol' Trusty Car. 😉
I'm not going to create waste (retire a usable car) in order to save energy; I think it's a net loss. I'll simply try to make the best choices when the time comes. It sounds to me like you're of the same mind.
Yes they use less water bc they only fill to the 2/3rds mark so you just do more loads
I wash most of my clothes in warm water wash/cold rinse. Do clothes get clean in cold wash? Are there any circumstances when warm water better?
Mine do! The only time I really need warm water is when I'm washing clothes that have grease stains.
I believe that the Cash For Clunkers program in 2009 was a bust environmentally because the manufacture of the replacement vehicles was much more costly (to the enviroment) that the cost would have been to keep the clunkers on the road. I believe your thinking is very valid. We too have a low water bill, outside of the part that is included with our property tax bill, I believe we pay less than $100/year. I do less laundry than some people because I am not afraid to wear a pair of jeans a couple of days before I wash them, I follow the same practice with items that do not touch the skin directly (sweaters, fleece tops, etc.). My washing machine is almost twenty years old and I hope it works forever, I could care less that it is not the latest and greatest.
I had a Kitchenaid washer similar to yours for 24 years. The bottom rusted out but the motor was still great. It had a metal drum not plastic like the new ones. I wish I still had it. Keep your old washer. You will be very disappointed in the quality of the new ones. Enjoy your blog. Kate
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I think there are many more factors to consider than just being green. Personally I think being green is over rated & many things pushed as green are more socially correct than actually helping anything - except those making the money off of those who want to be green.
You've mentioned some very good reasons to keep your old washer. There's also a human factor that I never see considered. Some people cannot afford new, some people aren't physically able to 'be green' all the time & some don't have access to green choices. We've gone to the extreme in putting every other life form above human life & made those who don't comply feel so guilty as well as pay a much higher price financially.
I know I'm not being detailed in my explanation (I really don't want to rant in my comment as much as this topic irks me). I think the best thing to do is live by our great-grandparents quote from the depression, who were the original 'green' society by the way. 'Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without' So keep fixing your old washer. Don't let anyone guilt you into spending money you don't have or don't want to spend when you can keep things working perfectly well for much less.
Good for you! Stand your ground! I think you are doing the wisest thing.
Living in an apartment complex that provides me with a washer and dryer I tend not to worry but if it was my own, I would be repairing it until it fell apart.
I'm in agreement with you. I've chosen to repeatedly repair my old washer in lieu of purchasing a newer upgraded washer, for the same reasons you have come up with #1, we're unable to repair the older model ourselves vs. the computerized features on the newer models that we would not be able to repair ourselves. #2. The older models last longer. There actually aren't that many parts on a washer that you have to repair. Mainly the gears and the motor so DIY repairs have been very easy especially with the ability to search the internet with the "symptoms", to find the proper fix.
Kristen, I would repair your old washer. We replaced ours several years ago--didn't even ask about getting it repaired--and I have been kicking myself ever since. After washing several loads in the new washer and having them come out still wringing wet, I called the service man because I assumed it was defective. He came and checked it out and said that this is how the new machine is, it does not have the powerful motor that our old one did, so it is not spinning as much water out during the spin cycle. So therefore, the clothes that I put in the dryer are taking more energy to get dry than before. He said the new machines are just not as powerful as the older ones were... Our fridge was nearing what we had heard was its useful life and not wanting to be stuck with a dead fridge, we went ahead and replaced it while it was still in good working order. I have been cursing this new refrigerator for 4 years now! It had to be the same outer dimensions in order to fit the space allotted for it, but the energy-efficiency feature means thicker walls so there is not as much capacity inside. Also, they must assume everyone uses lots of frozen foods these days instead of cooking fresh foods from scratch--the freezer is larger than our old one, taking up space from the refrigerated section. I wish we had kept our old model... Good luck!
Keep the old one!!! you are absolutely right when you say that the new ones are not built to last. Our first washer lasted over 15 years, our second, only 7.
I'm not going to talk you out of keeping your workhorse machines. We've had ours (very similar to yours) for 15 years. We've never paid a dime for any repairs - never needed any. Our daughter and SIL just bought a new home with top of the line, energy efficient appliances that you damn near need to be a computer scientist to operated. What they paid for one washing machine and dryer is (literally) more than we've paid for all of the washers and dryers we've had over the past 33 years. I'm staying with old school and I suggest you do too.
$250 a YEAR for water??! *jealous* Our water bill is $150 a month. And not from excessive usage; it's just expensive. I looked it up for a blog post I did on my homemade laundry detergent (I did a cost breakdown on making it) and we're charged $3.79/ccu (or whatever the water unit is - it's 7.48 gallons). And sewer is even more - that makes up about 2/3 of our bill. Maybe we need to move, lol.
When I was a kid, we had a top-loading dishwasher. It was an old monstrosity that weighed a ton. Eventually, it was replaced, believing that it was more energy efficient and all that - and my mom has regretted that decision ever since. No machine has done as good a job or lasted as long. Similar stories for the microwave and the washing machine...
Nothing is made to last anymore. Sad, but very true.
I agree keep repairing. The only question I have is how long till they won't have the parts for these machines any more? Does the repairman ever remark on this?
Well, I know they didn't stop making my particular model until fairly recently, so hopefully there will continue to be a market for the parts for some time in the future.
We were in the same boat a few months ago! Washer stopped working! So, hubby got on youtube and researched the issue..mind you he is Not a mechanic and doesn't want to be! So, he looked for the part that he thought was the issue...darn thing only cost $5.00! Our washer is pushing 12 years old, so investing a lot of money into it wasn't going to happen..so, I thought for sure I was getting a new washer! Nope! He fixed it..seemed to be an easy fix! And it has been working ever since! Hip Hip Hooray!! $5.00 well spent!
Late to the party, but I'm in the minority in that I would probably get a newer model for a variety of reasons. As someone else mentioned water has to be pumped and that costs money so you have energy savings on two fronts. An older washer uses like 55 gallons per load-I live in a drought area and that's just jaw dropping. Newer washers can use less than 20 gallons per load-and usually with twice as many clothes. You'll also use less detergent (albeit a different kind). And although you, like me, mainly use cold, a newer washer may even "cook it's own juice" and save money in that area. And finally, a newer washer spins much more efficiently. Making drying cheaper by far.
I expect that your TOTAl (not just water usage) energy would go down with a new dryer.
That said, I do appreciate the move to reuse and recycle as long as possible.
I'm a little late here, but we JUST replaced our washing machine this past weekend. It's interesting that you kept yours for monetary reasons, and we replaced ours for monetary reasons. In our area (Boston suburb), it costs $80 simply to have someone come look at the machine - and that does not include additional labor and parts. We had three issues in the past month, the prior two that my husband was able to fix. We decided we were better off spending our money for a new machine that will (hopefully) not have any issues in the near future rather than paying a couple hundred dollars for a temporary repair.
Yes! Fix it as long as you can. Mine was no longer able to be fixed. I was to have saved so much money with my new washer. I haven't seen anything different on my bills. Yes they don't last as long as the old faithfuls either. You are wise!
I agree with you 100% . Besides all you said, I have heard from friends that have the front loaders, that they don't clean nearly as well as the old top loaders like you have. I hang my clothes on racks mostly also. More energy saved. I recently found your blog and read it often.
I agree! Older appliances were definitely built more to last than the new ones these days. We had a fridge for 10 years that worked beautifully, but had to buy a new one when we moved and within the first year, it already had a part that broke and had to be fixed!! Luckily it was still under warranty, but really.... Good for you for fixing up your old washer and using it until it can't be fixed anymore. Many people wouldn't take the effort and would use it as an excuse to buy a newer, shinier model.
I'd hold onto the old one until you just can't repair it anymore. We replaced our 15 year old washer and dryer a few years back and I have had nothing but trouble with the new washer. It's an energy efficient top loader, one that automatically senses the water levels, and the lid locks when you turn it on (which drives me CRAZY cuz sometimes you just need to throw in one more sock!).
Just after the one year warranty expired it started making a terrible grinding noise, which the repairman said was the transmission and wasn't worth fixing. We hit Craigslist and picked up a cheap, older washing machine, and when we were moving the energy efficient machine to swap them out, some parts fell out. Turned out the washer was fine, the factory had undertightened the nut that holds the 2 parts of the agitator together and it had vibrated apart.
The latest saga is that the switch inside the lid lock isn't working, so you have to close the lid repeatedly to get it to finally start. Argh! I am trying to get the husband to move the Craigslist machine back in the house and let me light the energy efficient one on fire!
Our Sear repair man said the same thing, "Keep your century old (okay I exaggerate a bit) washer and repair it as things break, because, #1, the new ones break constantly and the people who have them now complain and wish they never got rid of their old ones--even going so far as looking on ebay for used ones to grab--, t#2 the old ones have parts readily available and cheap compared to parts for new washers" I'll add #3 the environmentally friendly crowd have an agenda to have everyone saving energy, but it's a flawed one, which never takes into account the very facts you laid out here so well. Like me, you and everyone who cares about saving money and saving the planet ought to keep the old ones running for as long as possible--just like they do in 3rd world countries where they do not have a choice--even if it is s good one!
I couldn't read the rest of the post after I got to the part about a year's worth of water is only 250 bucks. I am so jealous and I hope you know how blessed you are.
Ours is $75 in the winter and $150 in the summer. We have no choice but to water our lawn because of the HOA.
definitely repair your washer. I have just replaced my chronic washer (less than 2 years old). I replaced the washer with a speed queen, which has unbelievable warrantees. These new low water use machines are crap!
We just replaced our washer, as it completely stopped working. I forget what parts needed replacing, but the estimate was very large, and required a lot of labor. The appliance repair store owner advised against us repairing it. To me that meant something, because he could have made quite a bit of money off of us in labor charges, and would not profit one penny off our new purchase. And then we found that the part we needed was discontinued. We were really on the fence about repairing it up until that point, and then we decided to just get a new one.
Our he front loader does a great job and is noticeable gentler on our laundry. We can load it way up. I agree that fixing an older appliance is the best call in most cases but wanted to stick up for our newer machine, since so many folks here seem to have had bad experiences. One big difference is that you cannot soak in a front loader, so stinky laundry must be washed on hot, or pre soaked in a bucket.
Our front load washer has a soak cycle, an extra rinse cycle and an extra extract cycle. Maytag thought of everything to include a delay cycle to help save even more on energy cost by allowing us to set our laundry to start when rate are really low, lower then suggested off peak hours (wee hours of the morning).