In defense of little treats
In the last Tightwad Gazette post, I covered an article called "Wealth, Poverty, and Frugality".
As part of the article, Amy shared a letter from someone who said that she occasionally buys some junk food because,
"I found it I try to be too thrifty or too cheap, my kids have a 'poor' mentality...in other words, thinking of themselves as being poor instead of thrifty. So I do make allowances once in a while for 'comfort food.'"
Amy's response was:
"Grr! In her view, she has to give her kids the occasional Twinkie, like the other kids have, instead of an inexpensive alternative, or they'll have low self-esteem."
I was a little surprised to read Amy's black and white take on this, and I'm not sure I agree with her. I don't know...maybe she's focusing more on the mentality part of things, but I just didn't think an occasional junk food purchase was a behavior that needed calling out.
For a lot of people, having a little space in the budget for a treat or indulgence actually helps them stick with their budget better.
For instance, even though I'm naturally very comfortable being frugal, I would start to have a bad attitude if I felt like I had to stick 100% of the time to a perfectly frugal lifestyle.
It reminds me of this truism: "What you do every day matters more than what you do once in a while."
If you send your kid to school with Twinkies and other individually packaged junk foods every day, that's one thing.
If you buy a Twinkie here and there, that's quite another.
If you get a coffee out once a month, that's one thing.
If you buy lattes every day, that's another.
If you buy a (as in one) summer dress, no big deal.
If you buy a new dress every week, ok, that might be a little much.
I'm not an all-or-nothing girl
As I've talked about before in relation to nutrition, I really, really dislike food rules.
If I give myself "permission" to eat whatever I want, whenever I want, I will generally make healthy choices that fuel my body well, with little treats thrown in. This makes me feel good mentally and physically.
But if I tried to do something strict like a Whole 30, I would want nothing more than to eat a dozen donuts.
It's the same way with money. I generally make healthy financial choices, but I also will throw in a little frivolous, not-absolutely-necessary spending here and there. This feels good to me.
But if I had a strict rule against any financial indulgences or any spending beyond what is necessary, I would feel a greater desire to spend money frivolously!
I like feeling that my good decisions are a free choice, rather than feeling enslaved to some set of rules. And in my case, the freedom is not a slippery slope to overindulgence.
Not everyone is like this, though...
As Gretchen Rubin has famously pointed out with her abstainer vs. moderator framework, some people make way better choices when they have strict rules to follow.
For them, one coffee out leads to 30 coffees out.
One Twinkie leads to a Twinkie-a-day habit.
But if they just decide, "I'm not doing that at all anymore.", they are able to stick with it.
So for a person like that, I can totally see how a "no junk food buying" rule might actually be helpful.
One way isn't better
I'm not saying Amy should choose to run her life like the letter-writer did. I just think that there's room for acknowledging that different strokes work for different folks.
As someone who falls into the moderator camp, not the abstainer camp, it boggles my mind to think that abstaining would actually be easier for some people.
But I trust that this is actually, factually true, and I think if you want to be successful at frugal living, you have to figure out what works best for you, and then roll with it.
Which is why I'm never gonna give up my occasional little treats, either budgetary or dietary. 😉
I agree, and try to live that way with both money and food. For food, I like the No S diet (which is basically no: snacks, sweets or seconds, except for days that start with an S, or Special occasions). For me, this is the right balance. Generally on track Monday-Friday without having to decide on everything I eat, as there is some structure & "rules". However, plenty of room built in for splurges on the weekends & special occasions. This is the plan that feels the most natural to me, and requires the least amount of mental energy.
@Hawaii Planner, this is really interesting and easy to remember. I will take this “under advisement”. It will take a little planning, such as being sure to eat enough lunch to sustain me until dinner. It has been a victory for me to only snack on cheese, nuts, or vegetables, but maybe your No S method is the next step. Thank you for the idea.
@Hawaii Planner, I love this take! im gunna mull it over for me. Thanks for sharing!!
I think Amy was calling out the letter writer because of the way the buying of the treat was positioned- to keep her children from feeling poor per society's standards. Not as simply a treat, per se.
For that I think Amy was correct in challenging the mom to think a bit harder about why she felt societal pressure to conform, but perhaps she could have been a bit less harsh in her response, lol.
I don't understand how "junk" can be a "treat". Too me this is a contradiction.
And I think anybody who ties self esteem to a brand or any"thing" is actually poor....
For me, a Twinkie is not my definition of a treat. I'd rather buy a latte. But a Twinkie is the indulgence of choice for some!
@Lea,
It's an individual thing. I love Doritos - taco flavor or nacho cheese flavor preferred - but I canNOT be moderate with them if they're in my house. So every once in awhile, I buy myself one of those individual sized bags. Yes, it's a treat. To someone else, their treat might be an order of fast food French fries, or a Twinkie, or something else. A Twinkie isn't my thing, but it might be someone else's.
@Liz B., I call it a guilty pleasure. When I work the elections, I have an 8 pack of cheese/peanut butter crackers. I don't eat them any other time of the year. I may consume half the 8 pack during a primary or general election and the rest after that. Yes I've shared some - better half makes sure the judges at his other polling places have enough to eat. If I packed the entire 8 pack, I'd likely eat them all in one day (read: not good).
I'm new here, so late to commenting but this seems really judgmental and kind of the opposite of Kristen's attitude. Fine, you don't like junk food. But are you honestly telling us you can't even understand how anyone can? I don't drink alcohol, but I don't walk around in disbelief that lots of people like to. Kristen can't wrap her mind around abstinence, but understands that it works for lots of people.
Of course junk food can be a treat. Many people's attitude is "it tastes good, but its not good for me, so i'll save it for an every-now-and-then indulgence." Is that not....kind of the definition of a treat? Something special and not part of the regular routine?
Also, neither your comment nor Amy's actually responds to what the original person said. She didn't say her kids' self-esteem was tied to getting treats, she said that never getting them felt like deprivation and as if their frugal lifestyle was a necessity and not a choice.
I am a ‘moderator’ who used to be married to an ‘abstainer.’ Until I listened to Gretchen’s podcast on this topic we had some silly arguments because of our mindsets. Once I understood he was an ‘abstainer’ and I was able to explain how my ‘moderator’ mind works we had a good laugh, specifically over ice cream. If ice cream was in the house he had to eat it where I was content knowing it was in the house and I could eat it if I wanted it. I am now married to a ‘moderator’ but my son is an ‘abstainer’ and understanding his mindset has been helpful navigating his teenage years.
I treat myself to Starbucks every Tuesday. It’s close to my office and has become a tradition with a couple of coworkers. We can go any time, Starbucks exists everywhere, but I will usually hold off until Tuesday because it feels special.
@Geneva, Wow you just described my marriage exactly! It helps me wrap my head around some things, like why I have to hide the peanut butter jar so I can have my one dollop every morning and not find it empty halfway through the week.
I like a treat now and again. It makes it more fun not to have it every day. I don't tell myself I can't have it daily - I acknowledge that I don't WANT it daily. It keeps me accountable to my health and my budget. Telling myself I can't have it makes for negative feelings. And treats should be a fun thing to add into life.
I am not an abstainer - sometimes I fail with moderation, but it's 1000x better for my health and, in general, I'm much happier and more likely to make wise decisions financially, emotionally (and in terms of food, nutritionally).
In terms of overall spending, I’m moderate.
Food is much more complicated for me. If I restrict too much, I eventually break and end up eating on the opposite end of the spectrum. However, if I allow myself “treats”, I also end up craving them often and eating unhealthy food regularly. Both ways, I tend to get into the perfection trap of questioning myself about what’s the healthiest/best/whatever.
I’d love to naturally be in the healthy moderate category!
@JenRR, me too. Complete abstinence causes rebellion but some things in moderation descend into not being able to find the “off” switch. Then it all gets complicated with the ever-moving, always-changing definition of “healthy”. For example, we were raised that fruit is a healthy snack; now I’ve learned that it belongs in the category of sweets. WHAT?? Can’t I get a gold star for eating an orange instead of a cookie? Sigh.
@JenRR,, you are not alone! Thanks for sharing because it helps me feel less alone in my complicated mindset on food!
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, right?? I say good job for eating the orange. For sure! It’s got fiber and other good stuff that a cookie does not. Well done on choosing the orange 🙂
@Central Calif. Artist Jana,
I'm curious to know who advised you that fruit is in the "sweets" category? I would never tell any of my patients that.
And the definition of "healthy" when it comes to food hasn't changed that much. The Mediterranean diet has been known as one of the healthiest eating patterns for many years, even during the "no fat '90s". Yes, various doctors, influencers, diet book authors, etc., will have you believe wheat/fat/carbs/etc. is the enemy, or a gluten free diet cures all ills, as two examples, when these examples are not true (folks with celiac disease do need to omit gluten. this is known.). What grabs the latest headline (or magazine cover, etc) is not always something that is based in actual science.....or, it's based on one study of a small group of people with an outcome that does not apply to the general population.
(steps down off of Registered Dietitian soapbox)
@Liz B., agreed. I cannot agree that fruit is a sweet in the same way that candy is (which was implied by that statement). Natural sugars, fiber, bulk, actual chewing, vitamins - so many good things in them there fruits that candy doesn't have. Sheesh.
She got stuck on the word treat. She liked to communicate differently with her children with the positives of their situation. Creativity, control of oneself, not keeping up with the Jones.
For me when we were at our poorest I would give my children one thing they could pick out at the grocery store. It always have a list and they got to actually pick one thing out. It could be cereal or a snack item. My son loved it when I told him to pick a frozen meat item. Chicken nuggets were very popular. My daughter loved cereal and picked accordingly.
In general I feel like if we didn't act poor, we weren't poor. And trust me we were getting the gas and electric shut off poor.
@Amy cheapohmom, what a great practice! I don't have kids, but this post really made me wonder about the approach to this particular issue when people are raising children vs when they just are moderating themselves. I remember when my nephews were little this was a trick to get them to do things...generally if you gave them a choice they would pick from the choices you gave them.
@Marissa, also called having skin in the game. The kids had some control/say so - nothing wrong with that.
I used to encourage re-use of school supplies (excluding gym shoes). Kids got a percentage of what we didn't have to spend. As they got older, they didn't need a brand new box of crayons. Pens, pencils, rulers, erasers were not in short supply. Teaching your kid(s) the value of a dollar is good. When they start earning their own money via employment, understanding that spending x equaled working y hours (factoring in taxes). Was the cost of x worth y hours of work?
Suffice it to say kiddos and the parental unit had zero debt when they graduated from college. All of us had money in the bank. Kiddos quickly realized post-graduation how fortunate this was.
@Selena, My kids went to a school that had mandatory school supply lists and in second grade my daughter came home upset because they gave supplies back to her but they were all broken and she had 3 red crayons. We sat down at the kitchen table and talked about how important it is to take care of your things and that she had no control over this, and how can we go ahead and use these items. I am still using a single subject notebook that had pages left in it from 8th grade.
I agree with occasional meal/treat out, as it makes it seem more special when only doing it occasionally, rather than eating out (or getting coffee out) all the time. And I follow this policy. I also agree in indulging in a treat, whether at home or out, once in a while - I try to save my treats for weekends!
In finances, little indulgences definitely help me to stick to the long-range plan. For instance, my husband and I rarely go out to dinner, but will buy something "special" to make at home. Having tasty and good quality food makes us feel as if we are not denying ourselves and keeps our food budget in control. We also do go out occasionally, usually using a gift card. I usually end up wishing we had just bought something to make at home!
@Cheryl 90, to me that is the perfect answer & makes total sense. 🙂 For me, I use that gift card (which was a gift) with discounts/offers, which seem to be mostly in same timeline.
@Cheryl 90, One of the reasons I learned to cook was because I missed dining out for certain kinds of foods because it just wasn't in the budget. As a result, I can find ways to create food that "hits the spot" (a phrase I use when I eat something and it just is SOOOOOO good) as needed.
I learned the hard way that I cannot focus on what I can't or should not eat, but on what I can. Doing that, I don't feel deprived or that I'm missing out. Pork as in barbecued ribs is something I crave but absolutely NOT good for my health. So instead of focusing on the hard "no" to them, I have found recipes for fish and chicken that are equally as delicious. You can redirect your efforts food wise and still be satisfied.
One last point: Over the years, we've been told to eat X, Y, and Z. I've tried and the bottom line is that there are some foods, no matter how healthy, that I will not eat (Looking at you kale.) Fortunately there are other options. Once you know that a food is not for you, no matter how healthy, don't waste money or time trying to convince yourself otherwise. Find what works and eat that.
@Irena, so agree. My body needs red meat, it is genetic. Kale is on my ick list too - not sure I could drown it in enough salad dressing! My body is also okay with poultry and pork (some fish/seafood is fine). I could eat hamburgers almost every night and be fine. I know I should not but what you eat in with those burgers is important (or what you eat on them).
I am the same as you, Kristen! I feel extremely miserable and restricted with an all or nothing approach and, for me, it isn't healthy. I like to go with the 80/20 rule!
I'm a person that both likes rules, but also likes the freedom to be intuitive sometime. For example, one of my personal habits is I try not to get fast food unless we are traveling. It's healthier for me, and something that makes travel special. Like, I just love a Taco Bell bean and cheese burrito, but if I had that 2x a month it wouldn't feel as special. Or, I can make whatever pastry/cake/baked good at home and buy the ingredients to do so, but I can't buy the store-bought version. This slows me down with the baked goods, also it's often cheaper to make myself, and healthier. I can thrift whatever cute little item I want if it's a gift for someone else, but if it's for me, it has to be on my list (which is usually only replacements of things that no longer fit or broke beyond repair). I always look second-hand for non-consumable goods before buying new. I think some people would find these "rules" itchy, but I thrive with structure. And I can be flexible with myself, because I made this all up! Last week I got Taco Bell because I had a cold and it sounded good. last month I thrifted a little cat artwork to decorate my porch garden, just because, and yesterday I got the ice cream cookie sandwiches at Trader Joe's just to try them. Maybe it sounds like I break my "rules" frequently, but to me they are habits that when followed the majority of the time, mean that I am choosing the frugal, healthy, sustainable option. And then the few times a month I break the rule, I'm doing so intentionally, and to have a little fun 😛
@Andrea G / Midwest Andrea, still noodling on this. I think for me, I need a "why" for each of my habits/rules, otherwise they feel like pointless abnegation. For example, if I remember why I want to shop secondhand (to reduce the amount of waste in the world, to minimize my possessions, to reduce the impact on my budget), it's easier to migrate from big box stores to eBay or thrift shops.
Buy maybe this is more difficult with children, I don't know about that yet! Maybe it's easier to have hard-and-fast, "abstainer" rules as a family, rather than attempt to explain why sometimes we get bougie ice cream sandwiches and sometimes not...
@Andrea G / Midwest Andrea, thank you for a new word: “abnegation".
@Andrea G / Midwest Andrea, I like rules too, I think it's because my mom was very strict. I enjoy making my own rules now, but, I also regularly break them (especially the food related ones.) No kids here, so I can't speak to that either, but I know my husband is constantly perplexed by my plethora of self-imposed rules. 😉
@Andrea G / Midwest Andrea, I like the rules, as for me it makes life seem a little more interesting and different parts of life special. I also like having "abstainment periods", like when I notice I'm eating too much sugar or going to the convenience store too much I will put a ban on it for myself for awhile. Inevitably when the ban is over I have gotten over the withdrawal period and generally do less of whatever I was banned from. The ban has to be long enough, though!
I need little treats because I will "nothing" fast and it turns into just being downright mean and it doesn't allow me to enjoy the fruits of my labor. I got into the "poor" mindset when I had credit card debt, but I didn't shake it for years once I got out of it. I have gotten so much better at saying, I do deserve a treat! That said, after having gotten eye glasses, had major car work done, restocked my pantry and bought quality writing gear, I think my next few months will look frugal.
Thought you might want to know about these: )
National Nurses Week 2025 Discounts & Freebies
Be sure to call your location ahead of time, because sometimes these offers vary by location.
Applebee’s — Select locations will be giving teachers either a FREE appetizer with purchase.
Chicken Salad Chick — On May 9th, you can get Buy One Get One Free On Large Quick Chicks.
Chipotle — Through May 12th, Chipotle will open up submissions for healthcare professionals to get FREE food! At the end of National Nurses week, 100,000 nurses who entered the promotion will be selected to receive a FREE burrito e-card!
HTeaO — Buy One, Get One Free deal on all cups of tea from May 5th to May 9th!
McAlister’s Deli — Healthcare workers can get a FREE 32 oz tea offer through May 12th when you show a valid medical ID at participating locations.
Scooter’s Coffee — Nurses and healthcare workers can get a free medium drink on Tuesday, May 6th.
Smoothie King — Healthcare workers can get 20% off their order when they show their valid working ID in-store.
Sonny’s BBQ — Healthcare workers can get a free Pork Big Deal from May 5th-7th.
The Parking Spot — Nurses can get a 25% discount for any reservation made in May for travel through the end of 2025now about these:
@Rose D, someone did a lot of research! Who knew there was such a week??
@Central Calif. Artist Jana,
Nurses Week? or the specials? It is also Teachers week. It goes along with upcoming Mother's Day. The week after that is Nursing Home Week. The current meme for Nurses Week is: " You owe me a gift if you have ever asked me" 1) to look at this. 2) What do you think this is? 3) Is it contagious? 4) Am I in labor?5) Do I need stitches? 6) Should I call my Dr? 7) Can I take acetaminophen or ibuprofen for it? 8) Do you think it's broken? 9) What is this rash? 10) Do I need to go to ER?
Oooh, I will definitely take advantage of these next year when I am a registered nurse! Although, hmm, some of these look like they just apply to healthcare workers, and I do qualify for that.
@Rose D,
I really like that some of these are open to any health care worker. Don't get me wrong - nurses deserve alllllll the specials and discounts, but it's nice to be recognized for the health care role I play.
We need a Dietician's Week!
I think Amy was a little rough on the reader, but I, too, get a little aggravated at the idea that no name-brand junk food equals poor. It doesn't. It means (to me) that the adults are choosing to spend their money wisely, and Twinkies don't fall onto their list of things to buy. I gave my kids zero Twinkies and related junk foods, but they had some homemade treats in their lunches that they loved. I don't object to giving kids an occasional treat, but not a junk food treat. One of the better-off kids at school would bring slices of pie that her family's housekeeper had made (!), and she and my daughter would trade homemade treats with each other. Neither girl brought junk food in their lunches. On the contrary, some of my daughter's school mates who were not well off by any means often brought individual chips or cookies packs in their lunches.
I'm an abstainer. You know that diet advice that tells you to just savor one delicious, gourmet chocolate to satisfy your craving? Yeah, if I put even one in my mouth, I will eat the whole container in the next 30 minutes. I have to follow the "I'm just not eating that," philosophy. If I allow myself one treat, I will soon follow that with more. That's just how I'm built. I envy people who can keep, for instance, chocolate or cookies in the house. That's a no-no for me.
@JD, The whole name-brand thing is funny when applied to this discussion, because if I remember correctly, somewhere in her books Amy suggests switching store brands for name brands surreptitiously so your family thinks they're eating real Cheerios when you've replaced what's in the box with a cheaper version.
@JD, Another abstainer! I'm exactly the same... If I eat one, I will eat them until I feel sick or they are gone. I did that this weekend and am still suffering. This is the first time in my life that over eating junk caused a GERD episode (going on two days now).
@JD,
Let me add that the way I see this issue, the issue I assumed Amy was addressing, was that if this reader's child doesn't get a *name-brand* treat, the child will feel poor, deprived. I don't see that the woman was saying that she was denying her child all treats. I assumed that the child was getting store brand or homemade, and the kid felt embarrassed by that when the other kids were indulging in the name-brand stuff.
You know, similar to wearing off-brand tennis shoes when the other kids are "all" (it's never all, but the kids think it is) wearing Nike.
@JD, I hear you about the "just can't eat one" that is why ice cream is NEVER in my house anymore. It is the one thing that if I start to eat a pint, I will eat the entire thing in one sitting. So, hard no to any kind of ice cream, sorbet, gelato, etc.
Everything else in the treat category, I can moderate.
For me: thin mint cookies. NO SELF CONTROL.
@Bobi, The good news these days is that you can get foods that are similar if not identical (in ingredients) from various places like Trader Joes, Wegman's, Aldi's etc. In fact, it's known that certain foods are copycats of certain brands (and there are now cookbooks with recipes to dupe your favorite restaurant items).
That said, whether food or clothing, there are a few brands that deliver superior quality in terms of how made, how long they last and the cost per wearing value (someone told me this years ago Figure out how many times in a month, year, you'd wear something then divide that into the actual cost to see what it really cost you to own and wear something. We now do this equivalent with foods with the cost per ounce info.)
I'm fond of what I call investment pieces: Coats, jackets, pants. I've got a winter coat that I bought for $59 in 2005 and it is still in great shape and in style. That is quality construction. It was a designer brand marked down because of some minor (but you could not see) flaw.
I've also scored some great thrift shop bargains including a designer classic raincoat for $20, STILL WEARING IT TODAY!
If I want new, I get a new scarf or earrings. Just don't have the need at this stage of life for new clothing.
What are those unusual colored round M&M-type things in the Panera cookie?
My opinion of Amy and her methods is that much was common sense, many things were (and still are) helpful, and her approach was harsh at times. She had a one-size-fits-all mentality, but for folks who didn’t (or don’t) like her style, reading her material remains optional.
Back in the ‘90s, a friend of mine said she saw Amy on TV once and was appalled and disgusted by how she dressed—that friend was more interested in elegance and style than just being “cheap” as she viewed frugality, in spite of loving a good bargain herself.
Oh, they are like M&Ms, except with natural food coloring. So, that's why the colors are muted.
Today is my birthday and I'm following Kristen's example and am enjoying freebie birthday treats. I did not purchase anything additional at my "free stops", but plan on going back to all of the locations in the near future to support their businesses. My decision to do that was made because we are traveling for a few days to get my son moved into his new apartment, and I don't want anything to go to waste.
With that in mind .... I'm fine with occasional treats, and take a moderate approach. I think it helps to remember why I have chosen a frugal lifestyle. I try to save money in most areas to be able to afford long-range goals (college costs for my kids, retirement, travel), with a little bit of fun thrown in here and there.
Happy birthday month to you!!
(aka Little Treat Month)
@Kris,
Sending birtbday wishes!
I agree that Amy may have come down a little too hard on that particular letter-writer. But, taking this in the context of the **complete** Tightwad Gazette, I remember another article in which Amy, to keep the kids distracted during a shopping trip while Jim went to pick up a Christmas gift for one of the kids in privacy, sprung for a round of junior-size ice cream cones. The kids apparently enjoyed these immensely--and all the more because they didn't regularly get treats on trips to town. If memory serves, I think this was Amy's article on "creative deprivation."
Yes! I thought of that story as I was writing this post; it almost seemed at odds with her reaction to this reader.
Amy D. was a visionary in so many ways, but I do not/did not agree with her on most of her food choices or her attitude about food. Even 30+ years ago, I thought her meals were carb heavy and protein light. Also making "fake" maple syrup from corn syrup was probably not the best nutritional choice. But times have changed, perhaps her choices and her palette have changed too.
I suppose that deprivation can build character and encourage self- discipline. However, as a mother of 3, I also believe that I had an obligation to allow my children to enjoy life and to teach them to make good choices. Thus, I did not automatically say yes to everything.
There have been times of my life when money was extremely tight. These were times that I did not have many choices. However, when that was the case, I used the situation as a teaching opportunity. Together we often came up with a work around. Flexibility of thought, s good attitude, and creative problem solving also an important skills to teach a child. Much more important that drawing a line in the sand.
All this being said, I fall clearly in the moderation camp. Although I rarely bought junk food, we often enjoyed meals with friends and family complete with dessert. Going out for ice cream with teammates after a baseball game was something that I always allowed. On occasion, I even put a special treat in my children's lunches. All this, and they still turned out to be good human beings.
However, I do recognize that there are some people who are unable to moderate their consumption and their spending. The reason can be physiological or psychological. Thus, I try very hard not to judge another's choices.
I'm a big fan of little treats as part of an overall sustainable frugal lifestyle.
That said, there are times where short-term denial of something to fuel a larger goal can be very rewarding. For example, IMO, treating yourself to ice cream once a week is absolutely fine if you are covering your expenses and putting money into savings. However, if you decide to forego the weekly ice cream for six weeks in order to buy a sweater you've been admiring--maybe one you wouldn't buy otherwise--that can be a great tradeoff.
Similarly, if you're someone who cooks all the time, I think it's fine to order take-in for a week after having surgery instead of cooking in advance.
In sum, all things in moderation, including moderation.
@Claudia, moderation of moderation. I like that!
@Claudia, That was a favorite saying of my father-in-law's! He used to claim it was the "family motto." 😉
In general, I think treats in moderation can be helpful - and fun, too. As one specific example, when my husband and I travel to Arizona for part of the winter, we buy Fritos and Cheetos for the car ride to and from. We don't buy them at any other time. That trip is also the only time we eat in the car.
I think people do whatever they want within their means. I think kids are like prisoners though so should have an allowance to do whatever they want at least a little.
And if I can have a donut and someone else can’t even afford a piece of bread nothing really matters, it’s all stupid.
I had the same thought about the kids; what if you as a parent are an abstainer but your child is a moderator? It seems kind to take that into consideration, assuming means allow it.
There are some things I budget for that aren't specifically necessary. I drink diet sodas regularly. I *gasp* buy books and movies and don't get them all from the library and yes, sometimes I buy my kid something nice or take her somewhere fun.
When I was hand to mouth poor, yes I had to make a lot of serious sacrifices. Right now I'm not poor any more and I'm doing alright. Buying cheap and obsessing over every penny is just making money an idol. Maybe the author likes the idea of being buried with a big sack of money but I worked for a man who practically worshipped money and never let himself enjoy it. He died young and boy did his widow have fun spending it.
I really appreciate your perspective on this! When you talked about it in relation to food awhile back, it really struck a chord with me. I don’t know why I felt it had to be all or nothing with food, well it was my mom actually…
Your perspective on focusing on getting MORE of what you do need rather than LESS of what you don’t, has been so so so helpful to my mindset. If I focus on getting more protein and fiber in my diet I do much better. Rather than focusing on consuming less sugar and carbs. I still eat sugar and carbs but I don’t feel so paralyzed, defeated or frustrated when I slip up(big or small). I start again the next day. It’s been huge for me. It’s a slowly-but-surely kind of mentality, consistency. I feel much healthier in mind and body.
I’m grateful you shared your perspective, because my mom is definitely an abstainer and I am not, I’m a moderator! I didn’t grow up recognizing that there could be another way to look at food and diet. Thanks!!!! 🙂
Ohhh, yes, that is a big key for me: focusing on adding good stuff to my plate, rather than removing things.
I absolutely positively agree with you, Kristin!!!
Amy does seem to have had an "all or nothing" approach. Again, you have to remember that during this time, she and her husband were saving for a farm they couldn't have otherwise afforded. So -- it would be easy, particularly if you had four kids, to focus on this.
I am a big fan of "temporarily" cutting back on things, in order to afford other things. I can go without something for a month or two without too much suffering. (!!!) But all too often, I find I never really needed that item, to begin with. (Like paying for cable or streaming... there are a ton of free channels you can easily access.)
BUT we will sometimes set a goal -- and when that goal is reached, then we're "----". Usually it's having lunch at Calvillo's a terrific Mexican buffet 30 min. drive away. Or we just met another goal -- paying off our house loan -- and have paid for a European trip with dear friends. Yes, we could have put it on the credit card before this -- but we were determined not to. Was it easy? No. Did we travel much, until the house was paid off? Nope. Is it worth it now?
Absolutely.
Smaller treats can also keep you going -- like a Twinkie, I guess. Or a favorite book I just found marked down on Ebay, with free shipping -- I paid $12.45 for a $40 book. OR a dark chocolate bar. Thrifty Mom in Boise argues for giving yourself a small allowance for this sort of thing -- even $10 a month "to blow" can really help, while you're saving to pay off larger debts.
If you get a high-end coffee machine, and order imported coffee beans from Amazon's Warehouse Deals, you can still have wonderful coffee without enriching some company. We do that, too.
The important thing is the money, of course -- but it's also your attitude about it. Life is too short to waste or skimp.
One word, frugal or not: Moderation
I find that the minute I forbid myself to eat any food, for example, I start craving it like crazy. However, if I say, OK, (depending on my own health situation and how unhealthy an occassional snack may be), maybe once a week or once or twice a month, I can abstain without feeling DEPRIVED.
I think it's the same if you use the lens of poverty versus wealth (and boy, do those definitions vary. I know folks who make extremely good money and they do not feel wealthy given their lifestyle expenditure choices).
I agree with what you've written which is, again, moderation. Never extremes one way or the other, frugal or spendthrift.
I like saving money as much as I can and then allocating a portion of savings from a treat or an otherwise discretionary spend. As you've said in the past, you can't always be frugal or save as much on some things we need (not want) but you compensate for that by saving elsewhere.
I have a sugar craving problem with one particular snack. I found that if I banish it from the home, I end up eating more of something else that I should not. So, I keep a few of it around and I find when I do that, it is actually easier to say no because, I realize I have an option.
All of us like options. And choices. And when you have more of each I find I do much better in opting for savings and/or healthier choices.
Lastly, I do think it is easy for children especially to feel deprived (and poor, especially given the times when even those at the poverty level are sporting designer clothes, shoes, jewelry and the like even if in debt to do so, often by well-meaning parents who don't want to see their kids segregated and judged by what they don't have.) and I think we should not ignore that, within reason.
Kids today are far more harsh and nasty and mean about what other kids wear or how they look. It's easy for the sons and daughters of frugal millionaire or well off parents to sport second hand clothes that are clearly not of the season or trends. (Same with rich adults. I know plenty of super rich folks who dress down, live in modest homes, drive inexpensive cars to the point that you have no idea how rich they are. It's the old money way that I was raised around as a child.)
But way too many parents overspend in an attempt to not have their kids singled out. And I get that, but what are we teaching our children when we go into debt and live beyond our means to impress others or "fit in."
For that reason, I'm a huge believer in uniforms and wish that was the case with public as well as parochial and private schools today.
I'm laughing because last week at the grocery store I passed by the place where the Twinkies are and helped myself to my treat of choice, a pack of vanilla zingers. It's something that I hadn't had since I was a kid, and it caught my eye and I wanted it. Basically it's a Twinkie with frosting. It tasted like cardboard, but it was oddly satisfying.
I'm a huge fan of knowing oneself and of everyone doing what works for them, but I'm Team Moderator.
Lol about it tasting like cardboard. When I was in kindergarten, a kid at my table always brought a Twinkie for snack time and I was terribly jealous. But as an adult, Twinkies are not my indulgence of choice.
@Kristen, That reminds me how when I went to university I treated myself to a soft drink we were only allowed on vacation or for birthdays as kids. It tasted TERRIBLE as an adult!
My kids are growing up in a much more affluent household than I did growing up so I actively try to instill more sense of 'poor' in them, haha. I remember going to the grocery store with my mom and not being allowed to buy treats because we couldn't afford it and I feel like that gave me an appreciation of the value of money and also impulse control. So despite being able to afford more now, I often tell them that such and such is too expensive and is meant for special occasions.
IIRC, Amy Daczyczn had one article titled something like "Creative Depravation," and she said that if you give kids toys and treats all the time, or frequently, they won't think those items are anything special. But if you reserve the Twinkies, or whatever, only for special times -- ie, once in a blue moon -- then the kids will think it's super duper great.
Maybe the same is true of adults: if we limit our treats, we will appreciate them more.
I am an abstainer. If it is in the house, I will eat it. If I don't immediately transfer extra money into a savings account, I will be tempted to spend it. If I buy one pair of pants that fit well, I have to fight going back to buy every single color in that style. I think it comes from a childhood where we had very poor times and then very rich times---you never knew when my father would make a nutty financial deal and we'd be poor again. Sometimes they worked but when they did not, it could be grim for a time. My supreme proof of being an abstainer was when I had a really obscure medical issue and ws too medically fragile for surgery, so the prescribed cure was to not eat for three months. I was given this mix called Vivonex to put in water and drink instead of eating; the drink is manufactured by Nestle and had been invented to go to space with the astronauts and give them nutrients but not have them poop because the absorption was so early in the digestive process that there was nothing to form poop (a very elementary explanation of a much more complex process). While it is no longer used for space travel, it still is used for folks who have some sort of injury or condition that means they cannot eat. My doctor was sure I would not make 90 days but after day 3 of not eating, I grew indifferent to food and food smells. I lasted 89 days. Day 90 was Thanksgiving and that was just a bridge too far, as they say. Once I was able to eat real food again, the disinclination to make really good choices evaporated, too. So, we cannot have junk food of any kind in the house. (p.s., the hoped for cure did not work, I still had to have surgery when I got stronger.)
I have this difference right close to me. I am a moderator, my brother is an abstainer. We're both pretty close to 100% far ends of the scale.
Where Amy went wrong, I think, was that everyone needs to be an abstainer. It's one thing if you don't have room in the budget, but other than that? Do what works for you and yours.
I'm really glad that attitudes and vocabulary have evolved in the past 30 years. It's ever so easier to discuss a topic when you have a vocab that covers what you want to say. Understanding what "agency" is would have transformed my childhood.
Agreed; it is 100% fine to be an abstainer, but I don't think it's fair to try to make everyone else think that's the superior choice.
And the same goes for moderators.
This is not a choice between right and wrong; they're morally neutral options!
Life can't be lived without little treats.
The hubby and I each get an allowance each week that we can spend on whatever we want. I usually stick to my allowance and sometimes it grows in my wallet. Other times I use it to get deals at Walgreens which are mostly hygiene products that I donate to the food closet in my town.
What I like best about treats is when you buy one get one free, freebies, getting gift cards from my credit card, and using my allowance and not the credit or debit card.
Even when the kids were young and I was being super frugal I would still stop on the way home from school for the kids to get a Slurpee every now and then, especially on hot days, and use my allowance. I still make my birthday cakes from box mixes and don't buy them at a bakery in the supermarket or Costco.
Even packing a picnic with pb&j sandwiches with some homemade cookies was a treat back then.
Life would be boring with out little treats and if you don't do it every day then it is a treat!
I remember that Amy talked about her kids getting a small ice cream cone each on a rare mall shopping trip. She said something like, instead of having to increase the size/ frequency of treats to get the wow factor, she chose to limit the small cones. So, even she indulged on occasion. I related to that more than so e if the more "deep investment frugal" as it seemed realistic with my kids.
Little treats are permissible in my book. I am frugal about them…use apps and specials.
Fun fact: I've had about 1/3 of a Twinkie in my entire life. I went until I was in my early 20's without ever having had one, and when I had the chance to try one--I didn't like it! Ha. I remember when I was in 1st and 2nd grade, there was a girl in my class who got a Twinkie in her lunch box every.single.day. I was jealous. She was sick of Twinkies. LOL (My parents were super into health food, and the lunch I brought was not inciting jealously, I guarantee you.)
IMHO, Amy was at times a frugal nazi. I never got the impression they needed to watch *every* penny. We dine out at least once a week, lately twice a week. The cook needs time off (better half), clean up does too (me). The occasional dine out yields no leftovers but most do. And all work and no play (treat) can make Jill a bit bitchy (me).
My kids quickly learned that an item from the sale rack/shelf would result in a purchase. They both would do their due diligence - a $2 dress that would fit for a few months could be passed down someone else. Yes children should learn how to deal with deprivation/non-instant gratification. But always deprivation and no gratification is not a good life skill.
I have learned that when I start getting grouchy and blue, I need to look at my work/life balance. This is often partly solved by having some kind of treat. The definition of "treat" varies, but I usually find something that isn't part of my daily habits or routine fills the need. For example, going for an unnecessary drive to see new scenery can be helpful when I'm feeling overworked. ( Context--I live very close to my work and frequently drive less than a 3 km radius in a week.)
For food treats, most of the time I am a moderator, but I really need to be an abstained with chips. It is waaay too easy to eat the whole bag!
At about $0.71 and 140 calories each, a Twinkie a day is not really going to derail most people’s budget or diet. I remember reading something one of Amy’s daughters wrote, about wishing her mom would have bought her just one pair of cool jeans in high school. I really identified with that. My parents never bought anything on trend for us and they always managed to make us feel like idiots for asking or even wanting “cool” things. Plus a lot of things lose their appeal once you try them- my kids had never had McDonalds (I just really don’t like McD food) and they were complaining about this recently. So I got them fries. They thought they were gross and we talked about why everyone LOVES McD fries (answer: marketing!) Great life lesson, less than $1, I’m loving it.
Agreed on the Twinkie price, but Amy definitely did laser focus on the prices of individually-wrapped lunch items!
I’m much more in the moderation camp than the abstainer one. It also makes sense to me to evaluate the benefits of each frugal/non-frugal choice. An occasional Twinkie in a school lunch would not destroy my budget, and it might provide comfort to a small child who doesn’t understand my long-term financial plan. Treats add enjoyment to life, even for us frugal people ☺️