How to balance ethics and frugality
Every Monday, I answer a few of the questions that my readers send me. If you have a question you'd like me to answer in a future Q&A post, just leave me a comment here or email me (thefrugalgirl [at] gmail [dot] com) and put Q&A in the subject line. I look forward to hearing from you!
Good Monday morning, dear readers!
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Normally I answer a few questions in a Q&A post, but my answer to this one became so long, I only had room for one question this week.
I have a question that I just can't seem to answer satisfactorily for myself, no matter how much I think about it. Here it goes: Frugality and morality often seem at odds when I make purchases.
No doubt, food produced by people who are paid poorly and with chemicals that harm our soil and water are cheaper, but the way that this food is created doesn't align with my desire to treat people and the earth with respect.
The same goes with, say, clothes, that are mass produced in factories that don't prioritize the safety of their workers and aren't meant to last for years to come.
But, it's hard for me to part with hard-earned dollars, and making the choice to buy food and clothing sourced responsibly is definitely more expensive, and less convenient. It also means I have fewer dollars to put elsewhere.
I'm wondering if you and your readers struggle similarly and, if so, how do you make decisions that you're comfortable with?
Abigail
This is a little tough, isn't it? I'm pretty sure all of us have been there!
Here are some ways I deal with this conundrum.
1. I buy/consume less overall so that I have more money to spend on what I do buy and consume.
I don't own a lot of clothes, which means that I can afford to spend a little bit more to get quality items. For instance, Mr. FG and I both own American Giant hoodies, which are crazy durable and are made in the U.S. by a company who fairly pays their workers.
They're pricey, but they should last us for a long time, and we both chose neutral colors, which means we each really only need one hoodie.
I also don't own very much jewelry, which means that I've been able to afford to buy some well-made, fair-trade pieces from Novica.
(I just realized in the photo above, I'm wearing American Giant and Novica!)
You can't exactly apply this to food without starving yourself, but if you are doing less shopping overall, your other budget categories should shrink a bit, which could give you more room in your food budget.
2. I buy used.
Second-hand goods are an epic solution to this problem. When you buy them, you make use of something someone else didn't want, you are not creating demand for products made in sweatshops, AND you save money.
Win, win, win.
3. I ask, "Could this be an heirloom?"
I wrote a whole post about this, but basically here's the idea: before you buy something, ask yourself if it will have a long life (after you're done with it, could someone else use it?)
If the answer is no, then don't buy it.
Heirloom quality items do tend to cost more (unless you snag them used), but if you slowly switch over to buying them, you'll soon see a net savings because you will not have to keep replacing things that break.
And applying tip #1 helps here, because if you buy fewer items, you can afford to get the heirloom stuff.
4. I eschew most disposables.
Disposable items most certainly do not pass the heirloom test, and opting for reusables instead should eventually free up some room in your budget.
Bonus: life with non-disposables is a little more luxurious!
5. I make a lot of things from scratch.
Organic yogurt is pretty expensive, but if you buy a gallon of organic milk and use it to make yogurt, your quarts of yogurt will cost about the same as conventional yogurt.
If you opt to buy local or organic ingredients rather than ready-to-eat foods, you can often save money while still buying ethically.
6. I settle for less than perfection.
I buy local chicken breasts and a local quarter of beef. I choose the organic items that are available at Aldi. I visit farm stands in the summer and fall for local produce. I signed up for a local produce delivery box this summer. I buy organic wheat from a local co-op and grind it to make flour, and I make applesauce from local apples.
But on the other hand, we still eat some conventionally-raised meats, plenty of our food is not organic, and I still buy some unnecessary food items (such as M&Ms!).
I probably will never reach ethical shopping perfection, but I make more ethical choices now than I did 10 years ago, so that's progress. And you know I am all about not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. 😉
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How do YOU find a good balance between frugality and ethical shopping? Share your wisdom with Abigail, please!
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P.S. When I was writing this post, I remembered that I have a referral link from American Giant that gives you 15% off your first purchase. That'll net you almost $14 off the purchase of a heavyweight hoodie, which is what we own.
In addition to Kristen's points, I recommend thinking in terms of lifetime cost, aka "quality is frugal, over time." See SF author Terry Pratchett's quote about the boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/72745-the-reason-that-the-rich-were-so-rich-vimes-reasoned.
The short version is, rich people can buy $50 boots that last 10 years. Poor people, who can't get $50 together at one time, buy $10 boots that last one year. Over 10 years rich people spend $50, poor people spend $100.
So if you can get that $50 all at once, buy quality boots.
Last I looked, good quality boots cost $400 and above. I don't know any poor person who could ever afford that. You can get good quality boots from Payless Shoe Stores for $35 to $50, and granted yes, you may have to replace them every two years. (providing you take care of the boots)
Also, I do not know any rich person who would wear $400-$600 quality boots for more than one fashion season. They usually get a new pair every year, so over ten years that would be $4000 to $6000. Whereas the poorer person would have spent $250 (five pairs over two years @$50 per pair).
It's all about cash flow.
Check your math. The poorer person, if they become frugal smart, will win in the end IMHO.
He was speaking in terms of actual work boots -- NOT fashion boots. Work boots do NOT cost even remotely close to the numbers you stated (my husband actually works in an environment where they are required to buy top quality work boots). Those boots do not come from Payless. They come from an actual shoe store that specializes in boots -- all kinds of boots. In terms of fashion, the 'rich' can afford to spend that amount of cash on items because they have saved and made smarter decisions in other areas of their lives. What you see on TV in terms of 'the rich' isn't the reality of most people who would be classified in that context. MANY of them are regular folk who would, indeed, wear work boots for more than one season. Celebrities on athletes on TV may change their style from season to season, but in the real world where people actually have to work, they don't. Especially not men. So, it's not a matter of 'checking the math' but rather of checking the attitude. Just because someone CAN spend hundreds of dollars on shoes doesn't mean they WILL. But a poorer person or even a moderate person, can choose to spend wiser and end up more financially sound by making similar smart decisions that got that 'rich' person rich. More than likely, that rich person wasn't always rich and go there through sound choices.
A well-put reply. Often times "rich" and "poor" are stereotypes thrown upon us by the entertainment or for-profit industries. The people who are rich in funds to me are all smart, intelligent folks who use their money wisely. They don't spend anywhere close to the previously stated $400 for boots.
This was a lesson that I had to learn at a very young age.... even with limited funds, it was better to save my money and buy a better quality item, than to buy something cheaper immediately. Payless, to me, will never be considered "great" or "superior" quality. It's cheap. And it solves the need immediately. But those shoes aren't likely to last 10 years (unless your Payless offers different quality than mine :/).
When my father died, after being widowed years before, my siblings and I were stupefied by how much money he left behind. This was a very wealthy man who wore his shoes until they developed holes and then found a shoe maker to bring them back to life for a few more years. His car was old, but immaculately cared for so lasted far longer than one would expect. He had two suits, the same color, and when not at work he wore shirts and pants from Goodwill. YOu are operating with very sad stereotypes about the wealthy---my dad hung around with other immigrants who saved and fixed and did without, amassing large fortunes without showing off any outward signs of wealth. I think the only thing my father splurged on was chocolate, fine European chocolate that he ordered from England. (Although I think he hid that splurge from most people because he felt it was not very masculine to crave chocolate every evening!)
Your father was not too different from The Millionaire Next Door profiled in the book a few decades ago. When they started researching they had high end snacks and drinks on hand for the interviews, but soon found the millionaires typically bought their suits at JC Penney and did not drive fancy cars or consume other fancy things. Because of how they spent they had real wealth, but not always high income.
alicia - relax, it's an illustrative example rather than a literal one. If you click though, you'll see I'm just quoting the author's work of fiction. (Also, you must know different rich people than I do, but that's a whole 'nother conversation.)
This is definitely something I struggle with. Not only do I want to support local companies and good labor practices, I also want to spend at companies who share my values (no chick fil a for me). I just feel like it's so hard to know and be aware of everything AND balance the budget.
I believe there is room in agriculture for all producers, yet I am concerned that society is placing a premium on organic and simultaneously conveying that conventional production is less ethical. Almost all producers place a high value on stewardship because it is only by taking care of the land, water, air, animals and people that we ourselves can survive. I'm part of a new group, Ask the Farmers, that's on Facebook and at askthefarmers.com. Anyone who struggles with understanding how food is being produced, or with deciding how to buy food, is welcome to ask even the most pointed questions.
Based on my direct experience, as well as indirect info, it would seem that there are multiple definitions of taking care of the land.
Yes, which is why I say there is space in agriculture for all niches. I simply don't want people to feel bad eating conventionally-produced food because they are concerned about ethical production. Almost all producers are producing in an ethical way. Placing an emphasis on small producers, local producers, organic production methods, etc., is certainly a personal decision. But if that's out of one's price range, ethical and moral production is a near-certainty in any U.S. food, so there's no need to feel like it's a violation of belief to purchase foods that are conventionally produced.
Great post FG! I honestly believe that frugality and morality go hand in hand. Getting away from the disposable and going for long-term quality is life-changing. Regarding food, there was a great WSJ article recently about Whole Foods prices and how they get a bad rap but are actually comparable to other grocers. Since Whole Foods is the only grocery store in my neighborhood, I can buy the food on sale knowing that it is often a good deal and (mostly) ethically sourced.
I grew up in a Christian home and it bothered me that my dad would lie about our ages to get child discounts, like at amusement parks, and cheat on his taxes. Does being frugal trump telling the truth?
Um, no. Totally not down with that.
Being dishonest is just the most wrong way you can go, to save some money.
Don't follow your dad's example. That's the kind of thing that gives us all a bad rap.
That's a really difficult question and I like your answers, Kristen (esp #2, 5, & 6). Of course, people may have different standards of morality and ethics where what might be unacceptable for one may not be for another. Another thing my husband and I have had to think about is where our responsibility ends. Should we feel responsible to the nth degree (for every pre- and post- production decision and result no matter how far back or in the future it goes), or just for maybe the first few layers of degrees of influence that we have, or just for what we consciously know about? We're still thinking through this one!
Thank you for this! I think about this stuff all the time. I'm all for organic, fair trade, workers rights, local businesses, etc. However, I will still, every once and a while, shop at Wal-Mart because the prices are so darn low. I think it's everyone's responsibility to shop wisely, frugally, and with ethics and morals, taking into account your family's needs and the community as a whole's needs.
And you helped us look at that issue FG! Thanks!
Also, I believe one must speak up for things they believe in. If you are (as an example) uncomfortable about poor working conditions or low minimum wage, then I urge you to email the companies that do this and ask them to make positive changes. Or contact your Representatives and let them know how you feel and what you'd like them to do.
Thanks so much for this post! It's something we really struggle with as well. We definitely buy a lot of used things but I always feel bad when I have to go for some new things, like tights, socks, and underwear, and usually end up at Old Navy for them :(. However, I have a passion for antiques so all of my furniture and linens and cooking utensils are "used" lol.
I would also suggest to look into local grocers, not overlooking the Hispanic or Asians owned-specialty store. They usually have "ethnic" ingredients and spices at a much cheaper cost, as well as severely discounted produce, and you get to help out a locally owned business.
And even in your big box grocery store, ask if they have local products. Our local Krogers in season has local apples, corn, poultry, and beer. Plus, there are lots of products that have been pointed out to me that are made where I live. I feel a little better knowing that even if I'm not helping out a farmer directly, I'm supporting jobs in my area.
The local Walmarts around here offered a lot of local produce this year. They had big signs, saying "Arkansas peaches" etc. As much as I don't like Walmart, I do shop there for some of my necessities.
That's great! As much as I don't like Walmart either, I'm not going to denigrate them for doing good things, such as carrying local produce or organics.
I need to give more thought to what I buy and where I buy it. I would prefer American-made, organic, local- and being in Houston seems like local would be easy to do - it's not at least not with my crazy work schedule. the local rawfully organic has huge shares you're required to buy - tried splitting with friends once but it was a bit difficult to get everyone together and the one who suggested doing it hasn't done it except for getting her own stuff..I could probably learn to do my own yogurt (and probably should since I feel I should be eating it more often and the organic greek is pricier than regular yogurt).
can anyone recommend more clothing/shoes options? the link to the hoodies apparently don't outfit fatter than xl and I like 2x or even 3x sometimes. 🙁 bummer because I'm at the point where I want to order some good quality t-shirts, jacket or hoodie, maybe even some good jean all at once and be done with it. I hate shopping for clothes.
Susanna,
My husband is a big and tall guy. We have had good luck with Cabela's and Lands End. They have great quality at reasonable prices. Hope it helps. 🙂
thank you!
I don't believe Land's End items are made in America any more.
I lived in Houston for a year, and agree that their CSAs (or the ones I found, at least) were pretty crummy. Expensive and not much produce! But the farmer's market at Rice was amazing. There were many stands that used organic methods of farming, but weren't certified organic, and they were very affordable. I could buy grassfed beef for $4/lb (in 2013), a week's worth of veg for about $15, and pastured eggs for $4/dozen.
I've heard there's one in the Rice area but haven't tried it yet- will have to do that! I liked rawfully organic just very limited timesand such large shares. disappointing that such a large city isn't loaded with good farmer's markets the coop I looked into was also very expensive and half shares weren't half price- maybe 10 dollars off the full share price
Try Duluth Trading Company. Based in Belleville, WI, it caries extended sizes and long tail t shirts and firehose pants that are super durable. Some is made here in the US but not all. My husband is one of their web dezigners and they are an amazing supportive company to work for, esp for families like mine with differently abled kids.
thanks! I forgot about the - didn't know they had women's clothing- my mom used to order my brother shirts from there I think -the ones with the long tail that stayed tucked in when you bend over
I agree with Kristen on just about everything! One thing I would add is to consider "price per wear" or use. If you buy a more expensive, basic/classic hoodie that you will wear several times a week for several years, the cost per wear is actually pretty minimal compared with a cheaper, trendier one that might not last as long or get as much wear.
Funny, I was just thinking of the "heirloom" thing this weekend. My late mother-in-law loved to spend money, but only on things she would really keep. She bought a set of double-walled, heavy stainless steel cookware -- three sizes of sauce pans, two sizes of skillets, two sizes of dutch ovens, a double boiler insert, egg poacher insert, and special dome lid to fit both the largest skillet and largest dutch oven, in addition to the regular lids for all pans -- in 1962 and paid $218 dollars for the set. That was a pile of money in 1962. She kept the receipt, and I read it myself. BUT -- I am now using those same pans, so it really was a great buy on her part, since she used them daily until my husband inherited them when she died in 1985. I still can't believe none of my husband's older sisters wanted the pans. Two years ago, we replaced all of the handles, which were starting to crack; the handles were available online, much to my joy. One pan has a tiny dent on an edge, and that's all that is wrong with them. I love them and they have been all I needed, except for a cast-iron skillet, for almost 30 years now. I was looking at the pans this weekend and thought about how one of my kids or grandkids will hopefully someday use them -- the pans still look and work great, after 52 years of daily use. Now that is an heirloom.
I agree about balancing values and frugality, though. I tend to put values first whenever I can, which includes local farms and gardeners, buying used, and buying cruelty-free. I prefer humane working conditions, fair wages, no animal testing and humane animal care, and try to buy with that in mind. I find it hardest to be sure of that when buying shoes and clothes, though, which is one reason why I buy mostly used in that area.
JD - in 2013 dollars that's $1657. Which comes out at just under $32/year. Your MIL sounds like my kind of cook!
Very cool that you have the receipt, it's a nice bit of history.
M & Ms as unnecessary? I beg to differ.
I would love to buy all local, organic, sustainably/ethically/humanely raised food, but it's just not in the budget right now. So I decided to figure out what was the one thing I cared about most with my food, and that's that any meat I buy was humanely raised, from an animal that led a happy life. If it's a tight week budget-wise, I'll skip the organic fruit and the local veggies in favor of conventional food that's shipped in, just so I can get what I call "happy meat." (We also eat a lot of vegetarian meals, so I don't have to worry about buying meat for every meal.) It's a compromise that I can at least feel good about in my soul and in my checking account, because I identified my biggest concern with the ethics of my food, and am putting my money towards that, but still managing to save money elsewhere.
This is a great example of focusing on progression, not perfection. I like that you recognized that even though you can't do 'everything' you can absolutely do 'something.' 🙂
I think you handled this question beautifully, and I agree with all that you said. My hubs and I see things much the same way as you do. I've written about this a bit on my blog with a post called Frugal v. Cheap and another called Grace, Not Perfection. It is my opinion that frugality is to be valued, while being cheap is not always a respectable attribute. I also believe that we need to do the best we can with what we have. We will not attain perfection, but we need to extend grace to ourselves when we try our best. Great question - great answer. Thanks!
Recently I switched to purchasing my electricity through a wind power only electric provider. My rates went up. The change was this summer, and desperately, I was hanging out laundry on the line, switching fans on-and-off through the day for maximum cooling and efficiency, making sure idle computers were off. Still the bill went up...then I realized that maybe I am paying the 'real' price for power and comfort. I figure this sacrifice is important, and I'm trying to learn to accept it.
My own opinion is that we need to let go of the idea that there are any "morally pure" options out there. I'm not saying that purchasing decisions don't have an ethical impact, but in the first place - it's a very small impact, and in the second place - even the most seemingly "good" choices are tainted in one way or another.
Consider the environmental impact of building a hybrid car vs. fixing up an old one. Think about the rare earth elements used for making solar panels - and I heard once that rooftop windmills are unlikely to save more carbon emissions than were released in the process of manufacturing them. And of course there are differing ideas about what is or isn't "ethical" in the first place. It used to be that leather was considered evil because an animal was killed to get it - so synthetic fibers were more "friendly" - but don't tell that to people concerned about chemicals and toxicity.
And don't EVEN get me started on the "ethics" of earning money in this society. We don't tend to agonize over the "morality" of every decision that our employers make like we do over our own consumer choices - yet supporting a corporation by working in their employ has an arguably much bigger ethical impact than what we buy at the grocery store. Ultimately the most important decision we make in terms of this stuff is probably the candidates we choose to vote for - but you'll seldom hear people even willing to broach that topic in mixed company.
I'm not saying we should all just throw up our hands, buy Hummers and fill our homes with cheap plastic stuff made in China. I guess I just think that we'd be better off if we spent a bit more time looking at the totality of our actions and how we choose to lead our lives, rather than falling for the fallacy that we can somehow shop ourselves out of our environmental and ethical dilemmas.
Frugal lifestyles are often environmentally friendly just by the nature of buying less stuff, regardless of where it comes from. In the Great Depression, people were making clothes out of feed sacks and smashing together shards of soap to make a whole "bar," but not because these were environmentally friendly strategies. It was just because they lacked the cash to do anything else. Likewise, you can buy a Prius but if you're also flying 6 people to Europe for vacation (and flying internationally for work relatively frequently) you come out behind the person with the old car that may not get many MPG but they're only driving it to work.
I really appreciate this post. I whole-heartedly agree with settling with less than perfection and buying things that last a long time. Sometimes just taking care of things and making sure maintenance is a priority guarantees we spend less.
Keep up the powerful posts!
I haven't read all the comments yet (I want to just running out of time) so I don't know if anyone mentioned Everlane.com yet. I just heard about it from three different sources (in the course of one week). Shana from TheMomEdit.com said something about them in a pod cast and the other two were bloggers that write about having minimalist/higher quality wardrobes.
The word is that the t-shirts are really nice quality wise, made in the US and affordable ($15). Some of their items are made in USA others are over seas but if you click on "factories" they will show where all of them are and what is made there.
I need some basics because my goodwill and target ones are wearing out.