Do you have money dysmorphia?
Reader Reese posted this Yahoo article in the Frugal Girl Facebook group yesterday, and I thought it would be fun to discuss here.
(Thanks, Reese!)
Money dysmorphia refers to the experience of having a "distorted perception of your financial situation that doesn't match reality."
Unlike body dysmorphia, money dysmorphia is not actually diagnosable. But it could be an interesting label for the way some of us think about our money.
Basically, it's a mismatch between how you feel and what is actually, factually true.
You might feel like you have lots of money ("woohoo, let's buy everything!") when you actually do not have a lot of money.
Or (and this might be true for more of us here!), you might have plenty of money but feel like you do not have nearly enough.
The article didn't touch on this, but what occurred to me is that money dysmorphia could be a very understandable response to a period of life where you truly haven't had enough money.
If you've been scrimping and pinching just to survive for a long time and then you finally reach a place of more financial stability, it could be hard for your brain to adjust to the new reality.
It must be a little like the way people feel when they lose a significant amount of weight; they find themselves still thinking they are in their bigger bodies, even though they are not.
My almost-broke period of life
I thought of the recent years of my life...as you know, I left my marriage, moved into a rental house, and spent several years being not too far from broke.
My divorce took two years, during which time I paid painful sums of money to my divorce lawyer. Also, during this time I was not getting alimony (obviously that happens after a divorce!) or child support (Zoe turned 18 shortly after the divorce was finalized, so she was a minor during the whole process).
A single income + a high rental market + endless lawyer bills is not a recipe for wealth, let me tellllll you. 😉
I was doing my best to be frugal, of course; as you know, I furnished my new house largely with items from the Treasure House and from my Buy Nothing groups, I applied for scholarships to cover my school bills, and I did all my usual frugal things like cooking at home.
But still...it was financially tight there for a while. I actually did run out of money and I had to open some 0% interest rate credit cards toward the end of my divorce process, just to cover the legal fees until the divorce finalized.
Anyway, the divorce finalization was just over a year ago, and I must say, it is a delightful experience to not be almost-broke anymore. It is wild how much more money you have when you are not paying a lawyer. Ha.
Most of the time, I think my brain does recognize the reality that I am in a better financial place. But I will also admit that there are times when I find myself spending an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out a way to save something like $10 on a purchase.
And then I have to remind myself: it's ok. Ten dollars isn't a make-or-break thing. Sometimes the right choice is to just throw money at a problem, and I now have enough wiggle room to do that.
Maybe I need a fun budget
Reading this article made me think: perhaps I need a little monthly fun budget, just to remind my brain that I am not actually broke.
I haven't really budgeted at all since my divorce; it's just me, myself, and I running my finances and it's not like I need guardrails to keep my spending in check. Ha.
But budgets can be helpful reminders to not just save money, but also to spend it. For very frugal people like me, the process of setting aside money with the express purpose of using it for something fun is really helpful.
Otherwise, we can just be in save, save, save mode and then we miss out on some of the joyful things and experiences that money can buy.
Soooooo, maybe I'll give myself a little monthly sum of money and assign myself to job of spending it on something that is just fun.
Maybe $50/month? Is that too little, do you think? I don't even know!
What about you? Do you have money dysmorphia (either type!)?
And you can also give me opinions about how much I should budget for some fun spending. 🙂
I think the concept of “money dysmorphia” is complex, and has to do with how and in what era you were raised, in addition to the circumstances find yourself in as an adult.
My family was lower middle class, decidedly blue collar, a segment of the population that seems to have disappeared in the US. We had less than most of my peers. Yet I never felt deprived or envious. I was raised by parents who lived through the depression. My father was scarred by the experience, my mother was not. My mother (whose beliefs have far more influence on me than my father’s) always said our house is small, our car is old, but we aren’t in debt. And she believed in buying fewer things of higher quality. She didn't seem worried, so I wasn't either.
As an adult I remember becoming aware of the news, and being suddenly concerned by the oil crisis, and all the other things that would seemingly impact our ability to find food or get to work to earn money. Things I had somehow been blissfully unaware of as a child
As a retiree, I have to do two things that are seeming opposites – go into “spend” mode after a lifetime of “save” mode, i.e., spending down the money I saved for just this time of life. At the same time, I have to do everything I can to make sure that what I saved will last my lifetime – which could be 20 more years or 20 more days.
As I write this, I realize I didn’t address your concept of “fun” money. I don’t have a lot of hobbies or interests that require that sort of budget. My current fun money budget goes to meeting friends for lunch at local restaurants (which is an expense, for sure) in order to keep those important relationships alive. I think you have to know your priorities (which you seem to have a good handle on) and spend your money according to those priorities.
@Bell, your "As a retiree..." paragraph captures my current financial balancing act/dilemma perfectly. And I'll bet that a lot of other Commentariat members who are retired or about to be would agree.
@Bell, the budget for keeping social connections alive is definitely money well spent, so I am sure I will do the same!
@Bell, I am in the same boat. We have more than adequate money to last us. After a lifetime of scrimping and saving, it’s almost hard to spend. I still don’t waste money day to day but we decided travel is where we will spend money. It really depends on your priorities. The number of our days is unknown so we use our money on what brings us joy ( experiences) and not on things.
@Bell, your mom was very wise and balanced about money and possessions. When I think about my situation, particularly when someone gets a new car or a remodeled house, I think, "our house is paid for, our cars run, all of our needs and most of our wants are met".
"Fewer things of higher quality" is the approach that keeps my life manageably simple and satisfying.
@A. Marie, Yes! This!
@Bell, dysmorphia of any type is complex.
@Selena, so true!
I don't have an opinion on how much money is right for fun money, but I am impressed you have kept a white sweater in wearable condition for 14 years now. I can't keep anything white presentable for longer than a few wearings, typically.
As for the financial dysmorphia . . . I see my husband doing this more than I do. He has this strange thing where he doesn't worry about money at all when we don't have any. It's when we start to have extra that he gets all weird about spending it. Maybe he feels like he should be doing something "better" and more responsible with it? I don't know. I don't really understand it, but it's been a consistent pattern in our lives.
@kristin @ going country, I've given up buying any all-white garments whatever. They always end up looking like a Jackson Pollock drop cloth within 3 months. 🙂
@kristin @ going country,
The only all-white things I ever buy are white t shirts to wear with skirts for work. I canNOT be trusted to wear a white dress, pants, shorts, skirts....and OxyClean is my bff, since I manage to slop stuff no matter what colors I wear. 🙂
@A. Marie, I only buy white bath and hand towels. I was them weekly in bleach and Tide. The only reason for this is because when I buy colored towels they always ended up different colors at some point and drove me crazy!
@A. Marie, This, too. I've stopped buying white shirts.
I definitely feel penny pinchey even when I don't have to. Its ironic to me that even with losing a spouse and being massively worried for my future, I am in the best financial position of my life. My mother was the same way, even when she was in a more secure position. Sometimes I get bogged down in the minutiae when I'm grocery shopping - do I pick the store brand or branch out to the gourmet version...its silly, but it comes from years of trying to juggle all of the monies each month. I briefly tried to budget for food, then thought "why am I depriving myself of what I need to buy?". I take a more rational and reasonable approach to spending, well within my means. And I try to keep minimalism and frugality in mind.
@Gina from The Cannary Family, I'm with you on those minor decisions. I'm trying not to spend the same amount of effort on each decision and instead spent a lot of effort on big decisions and only a little effort of small ones. Still a work in progress.
@Gina from The Cannary Family, most of us eat our meals at home (we do go out at least once a week, the cook wants a night off - 99% of the time we eat a local restaurant). In my area, if you're lucky, a shrimp cocktail (6 shrimp) is at least $12 - probably more these days, De Jonghe $16 appetizer, dinner $29, shrimp scampi $32 - you get my drift. A bag of cooked, de-veined, peeled shrimp from the butcher shop costs $18 (likely a few dollars more since we just killed the bag). We had three meals of pasta with shrimp plus a couple of appetizers. We enjoy shrimp, we can afford it. We enjoy steak and salmon (red meat me, better half salmon). What better half spends at the butcher shop is less than one restaurant meal of one of the two. There are usually mark down steaks at a couple of pretty decent grocery stores, freeze or use. It doesn't take much.
Don't feel guilty spending money on food you enjoy at home.
I can't speak your "fun money" dilemma, only you can determine that. At the moment I am focusing on donating to causes that need extra help.
It is challenging to spend decades saving and know that soon, in retirement, you will be spending those savings. We have mastered the first part and hopefully will master the second.
I am sure I have some money dysmorphia but I try to remember that we have enough and if I can spend money in a way that benefits others (like eating in a local restaurant or buying in a local store that sells items not made in a factory) that it is good to spend money. If every one was frugal the economy would collapse (though I do think there is too much consumption in the US overall).
@K D, I agree about supporting the small, independent businesses!
@K D, I have often contemplated how overconsumption seems to be required to keep the economy rolling, and what would happen if even half the population were as frugal as my husband and I.
@Central Calif. Artist Jana,
So true! And the many financial institutes who are paid a merchant fee every time you swipe a card for payment! Fed Ex and UPS who deliver all the stuff we buy. It's interesting to think about!
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, I think the percentage of we frugalites is higher than we think. The sad part is those forced to shop at Wally (and maybe even because they work there) can't resist the crap items. That piece of China made crap makes them feel good. Tough to make them realize better to save that $2.
I read an interesting book along these lines this weekend called American Bulk by Emily Mester. The author writes about her grandmother, who grew up during the Depression, is frugal to a fault and is a hoarder. Her father hated the amount of frugality he had growing up with her, and so worked as much as he could so he could earn the maximum amount of money....but also became a hoarder. Instead of throwing things away, he buys, buys and buys anything that looks good to him. The author talks about how she has inherited both tendencies, and how the US encourages reckless spending but also a hoarder mentality.
I try not to spend money on things I don't 'need', and generally am good with that, but I need a fun budget. It's not possessions which I spend money on, but experiences. I want to spend money on going out, such as going on vacation and seeing friends, and also for entertainment. It's definitely a balance - I don't want to save money just for the sake of saving money, but I also need to save money for events in the future.
@Sophie in Denmark, It seems like those generation issues are not unusual. I’ve heard of many people who grew up in poverty or had extremely stringent parents who ended up going extreme in the other direction as adults. I also agree with the current US mindset. So many of us have way too much stuff and are short on money.
@JenRR, my mother grew up middle class socially but cash-poor. The biggest effect that had was her view of bargain hunting. For her, buying something used was a sign of poverty and something to hide.
I, on the other hand, grew up shielded from that. My father was just utterly convinced that the company he founded would be a success (he was right) that he would spend the money. They didn't spend money left and right stupidly, but they did spend it. (Most notably on family travel, to my great delight.) So for me, buying used is a sign of cleverness and something to share.
@WilliamB, brilliantly stated: "buying used is a sign of cleverness and something to share". That attitude is much more common than it was in my childhood; people love to tell of the bargains they have discovered or the way they salvaged an item. (Of course, it may just be the circles in which I travel—in my little poor county and here on the Frugal Girl blog.)
Haha, it is true that we have a little bubble here where this kind of thing is always appreciated and celebrated.
But I do also think it is true that buying used/thrifting/repurposing has gotten so much more socially acceptable than it was in my childhood. And obviously, I think that's a positive development!
@WilliamB, my parents bought a lot of things second-hand when I was growing up. It's become much bigger now but I don't see as many charity shops where I live. Open markets are very popular though, where people have stalls to sell things from their homes.
@Sophie in Denmark, thanks for the book recommendation! I'm now in the hold queue at the library. The book description sounds fascinating: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/205478800-american-bulk
@MB in MN, awesome! I hope you enjoy it 🙂 There was lots to think about.
@Sophie in Denmark, I see fewer charity shops here on the US Eastern Seaboard. I went to a Habitat for Humanity Re-Store over the weekend hoping to find an end table. In a large showroom full of hundreds of items, I saw only two dressers and one dining set that looked worth taking home. The upholstered and leather furniture was dirty, ripped, broken. And prices started at $60 - no bargains for very low quality items. I am wondering if it's because people are selling things online themselves instead of donating to charity.
Interesting and infinitely complex topic.
The first six years of my life, my mother and I lived in my Uncle's house (he was serving in the Armed Forces at the time and was in Europe) with my maternal grandparents. (My father was in the military stationed in the Middle East for all of that period and beyond.)
My parents divorced and we moved to our own apartment. There were most definitely financial struggles as my mother alone supported us on a hospitality worker's salary. At one point, we couldn't afford to live on our own and lived, briefly, thankfully, with an aunt and her kids. As a single, divorced mom in the 1950s, my mother faced a lot of judgment. Although we were, in retrospect, downright poor, living paycheck to paycheck, I was unaware. Lucky for me and other kids, there were no designer clothes, no cell phones, no tablets, no computers and other expensive stuff that we "had" to have to enjoy our daily life.
My takeaway years later from all of that: Get an education. Get a job and support yourself. Which I did, with varying degrees of financial comfort. I say varying because I chose a field in which salaries were low and was an independent contractor before people even knew what that was.
I've been what I termed "flush" (when enough was saved between gigs to pay current and a few months down the road bills) and then, when I was truly scrimping (waiting for companies to cut checks that were due weeks/months earlier), thankful I had a modest pantry (although that is not what I called it at the time) and part-time jobs in retail.
I don't know what you would call living in what was pretty much not knowing how I'd be financially from one month to the next unless I had a long-term contract gig, but I do know that I've never felt financially secure. Even now, in my 70s when I am, thankfully, still working part time and need to as no one could live in the largest US city (or pretty much anywhere but a rural area) on social security. No pensions. Savings pretty much used up for healthcare and major illnesses.
I don't know if there is a term for that feeling of always unsure of what's happening next because you are dependent on the government (SS, Medicare, etc.) and on the health of the individual who has hired me to work for the last 25+ years.
This describes more of us of any age than you might imagine. It's sort of what I've always referred to as "mini-feast, major famine" where, over the years, there was enough to "invest" in establishing a serious pantry; classic clothes that have lasted decades (I've got a winter coat that looks like new. I paid $60 for it at Burlington in 2005. And it's not the oldest piece of still-wearable clothing I have. Classics last. I "splurged" over the years on accessories such as scarves and a few necklaces and earrings.
I was fortunate to travel for business at times when I could not afford to go far on my own $$. (I no longer am able, nor afford to, travel due to health.) And though I now spend more on food (more food waste due to health problems) than I would like, my biggest expenses remain business-related (NYT and WSJ subscriptions and electronics needed for work and related items), health insurance (!) and rent and utilities (don't drive; can only take some public transportation and expensive car service when I cannot go the distance (again, health issues) via bus.
I never feel as if I really "know" how much I have, and for how long, so can't relate to dysmorphia about finances. It's just: Here's what I have today. I don't know how long that can/will last or what I'll need as time goes on if I'm around.
I'm interested in hearing how other single, totally responsible for all their expenses, individuals in their sixties, seventies and beyond feel about finances. Talking here about folks with "real folks" income. We're not talking anything above $50,000.
Seriously curious about how folks are making ends meet.
Frugal living at this stage of life is absolute necessity. Not an option.
Making the most of every $ spent, especially when everything you know is essential, keeps going up.
FYI: You know that BIG increase in SS we got a year or two ago? Big joke. It was eaten up immediately by increase in all 3 of my Medicare health insurance policies. And for something like $1,000 more that it represented in a year, I lost a special reduction in my rent for people my age with set income. As a result, I now pay $200 more a month (and it goes up every year or two), than before. That SS increase? It cost me about $400 in lost reductions elsewhere. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that situation.
So, I don't know from month to month if outgo can be matched by "income."
Will I be able to keep working? Will the company I work for still exist (and at my age, there are no work from home jobs even comparable in pay, if I could even get one) ?
How much will insurance continue to rise each year (In the last 10 years, it's seen almost $100 a year for all 3 policies in increases. Who knows what it will be when the current administration destroys SS and Medicare and other healthcare options in this country.
So, what do we call that state of financial being ? Hmmmm
I was also thinking that this is probably a very complex issue, and that various past traumas could contribute to it. I think of the stories of previously starving children who are scared to go to sleep without food in their hands; their brains cannot comprehend that food scarcity is in the past. And I wonder if sometimes financial fears are a little like that.
@Irena, Next month I turn 70, and will still be working; I don't plan to make any major changes, but I may reduce some of my working hours. I substitute teach and have a retail job, cashiering in the evenings, weekends and school holidays. I have 2 pensions not counting SS. My house is all paid for, mostly due to an inheritance and a 15 year mortgage, and I would have been in great shape except that I totaled a paid-for car. Had to buy a used car and still making payments. This made me have to delay some needed repairs to my house and also forced me to replace a dead refrigerator with one from Salvation Army. Raised by a granny who went through the Great Depression, I think I'm frugal, but maybe not. I've never budgeted except in my head. I buy secondhand for just about everything except groceries and underwear, unless something is especially inexpensive at a "real" store (ie, one which is not a thrift store). I don't have cable/streaming/satellite TV and it's been years since I saw a movie in a theater. I said no to offers of satellite radio. My entertainment budget last year was that I allowed myself to go to a restaurant once a month with the church ladies, but since I got stood up for their Xmas party and was treated rudely afterward, I've decided to drop that activity. (I usually got stuck at the end of the table with people I didn't care that much about being with, anyway, and most of them carried on conversations excluding me.) I need to figure out some other socialization activity, one that is inexpensive or free. I'm replacing the flooring damaged by the bad roommate and will be redecorating those rooms (the front room and her former bedroom, which once again will become my office.) I am not sure whether I'm well off or heading for a crash. Much will depend if the government cuts Social Security/Medicare; if they do, I'm in big trouble. Ditto, if I have any major health problems. (I had cancer but it didn't cost very much out of pocket thanks to Medicare Advantage and the cancer is all gone now.) My house needs some repairs, including a new roof, which won't be cheap. But...if I sold this house, I wouldn't be able to get affordable housing now that prices have skyrocketed. Luckily, the property taxes have gone down and they now let me pay in quarters . I will start getting another monthly check disbursement this year, so on paper I will be well off. But the buying power of those dollars has shrunk, so I might need to really pinch pennies.
@Kristen,
There is definitely trauma/unease from past experiences, especially as a vulnerable child. And, interestingly, people as adults are often unaware of how this has affected them. It's not as if you are even conscious. Affects how people spend, save, give gifts (or do no), approach buying food.
Perhaps not a topic that one might be comfortable putting out there on The Frugal Girl, but definitely real.
Also, how the type of work you do, job stability (or not) and how that has perhaps changed (and motivated) how you approach spending as you just detailed from your life situation with divorce, which, as you probably know, has left many, many women in debt for years afterwards, as well as sometimes close to starving in extreme situations during the proceedings and afterwards.
So many factors impact how we spend, earn, save.
I think the more we all understood, the better our choices.
Certainly no financial education while growing up in a formal setting, which should be mandatory starting in grade school and continuing through high school, especially as it affects choice of college and jobs/careers down the line (and, who you marry if at all. Meaning understanding how marriage makes you liable for others' debts for example. Something a lot of people still don't know or understand until they find themselves being threatened with wage impounding.)
@Fru-gal Lisa, Thanks for sharing this.
I am sorry to hear how you were treated by your church group. Seriously, if those folks don't have basic good manners...and can genuinely care and interact, geez.
It's unclear whether you would like to work or have to work. In any case, I hope you are OK and I applaud your willingness to work, and also that you have some options. Sounds like you are busy with not much time for yourself until you cut back teaching hours.
I hope you can find some local activity (low or no cost, book club?) where you can meet and get to know people. It is not easy to do no matter where you live. I stopped meeting a lot of folks once I started working from home.
Luckily, I met some folks on line with similar interests and though Zoom is certainly NOT the same as being with someone in person, it has really helped me stay in contact and expand my world beyond these four walls (I have limits due to health problems in terms of getting out and what it costs to do anything beyond going to the park, which is nearby, thankfully.)
I could not afford the upkeep on a house even if the mortgage was paid and taxes were low, given that I live in a major city. I'm lucky I can be in this apartment and hope it doesn't increase in rent to the point where it is unaffordable. I, too, could not afford to move anywhere else because I don't drive, so don't own a car, and must rely on public transport.
I'm lucky I can work from home because healthwise, cannot do real physical work (standing in a store? can't do it) anymore, let alone get around easily or affordably. The current work is an outgrowth of working with the same owner in multiple jobs over the last five decades (yes, that long!). But he, too, is uncertain of how long he can work, although given what he does, I'm sure he'd be happy to go on the job!
@Irena, whether intentional or environmental (family, others in town), I had the mindset I could support myself. I would not have had kids if I could not support them myself - single income. Both my kids graduated college with money in the bank and have supported themselves ever since. So sorry justice "scalito", neither will contribute to the domestic supply of babies (preferably white).
@Kristen, not just children re: food scarcity in the past. My friend's husband worked in a factory (when the US had them mind you) with a gentleman who survived the Holocaust. The gentleman had food (non-perishable obviously) in various spots in the plant. I understand why but I still find it so sad.
Maybe a nice post would be ideas on how to spend $50 (and spend it all) in fun ways. I can’t think of anything other than eating out. I have to pay for 5 people though.
If it were just for me, I guess browsing a bookstore and taking home a new book could count as fun. And it helps keep a local store open.
My husband also said his mind is blank for $50 fun. I guess we have expensive taste. He said ice cream shop after biking with our little one.
State park pass is more than $50. Parking at the beach is $45 for the day.
@April, here are some other ideas off the top of my head:
- Buying that coffee out or soda at a restaurant (free refills are great).
- A hobby tool or consumable; as a knitter, for me that would be some beautiful yarn for a scarf or the idiot-cord maker to encourage me to experiment with a technique I usually avoid.
- A subscription.
- A class; for example, the Smithsonian Association has hundred of zoom lectures to choose from, you don't need to be in their area.
- A personal service, such as massage or manicure (there's a man's version, too).
- Hiring a local kid to rake leaves or shovel snow.
That last made me think of another way to find something. Ask yourself what you hate to do, then hire someone to do it.
@WilliamB, great ideas! But what is "the idiot-cord maker"? A tool for knitting i-cord edges?
@WilliamB, soda is such a treat in a restaurant. i have always looved soda. the dentiist says my daughter can no longer drink soda. i stopped in support of her, it is so hard. but on the plus side i am not always thirssty like i was before. i drink tap water now. before was pepsi zero,
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, it is. It's made of 3 machine knitting hooks linked together. It's different than (from?) a knitting spool. Laura Neklin has some good, high quality videos on YouTube about how to use and ideas.
@April,
Roller skating! I love the roller rink, and it’s pretty cheap where I live.
Bowling- I don’t actually love bowling itself, but I like hanging out with people while we bowl.
Go to one of those cafes where they have board games, play a game and eat some snacks.
A cat cafe! We have one here. It’s so weird, but you just go and drink tea and hang out with cats. There is apparently an owl cafe in Tokyo, and I would definitely do that if we had one here.
A class of some kind- cooking or painting or dancing or something where you do things with other people, preferably in person
A concert or theatrical production.
Go to a museum in a larger city and sit in the cafe feeling sophisticated
Go to an art fair or craft show or gallery walk
A note for introverts who think these things sound fun but wonder where you find all these willing companions: join some kind of a group- whatever, Bible study, book club, mah jong, pickle ball, doesn’t matter- and start inviting people. Most people actually are introverts and love being invited and especially love having someone else plan things.
@Tarynkay,
Thanks for your list. I did end up googling ideas!
We like mini golf. We rarely go to the movies, but it could be fun on a rare occasion. I do like roller skating. I also like the idea of buying a board game and hosting others for a game night. I’m down for a cooking class as well.
We’ve just been in a mode where all the fun was expensive (travel, skiing), and my mind blanked on what could be done with $50. We’ve also entered a season where NO and WAIT needs to reign. So even $50 has a use in the budget that doesn’t include fun. However, The best use of the $50 would be gas, parking, and something free from the library pass. It’s very, very expensive where I am.
I don't think I have money dysmorphia, but I do have some anxiety towards not having enough money to retire comfortably if something was to happen to my husband. Together, financially, we are all good for retirement, but alone I'm not sure how I would fare. Pretty sure this comes from my own mother, who was a single mother all my life and didn't have a high paying job for the longest time, did not put money aside for retirement and does not have a pension, so at 72 she is still working part-time (which means, for her, 30 hours a week, down from 80 hours a week!) and will finally be able to retire completely this summer after selling her house and moving to a rental. So, yeah, it's always on the back of my mind that I could (and don't want to) end up the same. But this would actually not be my reality, even if something was to happen to my husband, because we have good savings, I would get part of is pension and I will get a pension of my own when I retire. Not a full one, but enough to live on if I stay frugal.
@Isa, Savings are great but the reality is that many folks work hard in jobs that don't allow for savings, contributions to 401Ks and the like over the years. High paying jobs are not always available even to those qualified, or able to be kept given the pace of businesses closing, with lost pensions and healthcare (promised while working. Witnessed this multiple times while under contract at Fortune 50 companies. OMG) (Even folks with advanced degrees and education are finding it hard to find jobs that pay enough for them to live alone, as many choose and are doing or have no choice but to do.) It costs more to live even very simply these days.
And even if you save, if you have a house that you own and over the years it needs a lot of work...and/or you have health problems/ongoing disease, boom, savings gone in a few months and debt incurred till you die. This has happened to folks who never, ever thought it could happen to them, but illness strikes and you can find yourself spending with little to no choice to just stay alive.
You can plan, you can scrimp and save, but there really is no guarantee. I won't even mention what it's like for many married women who find out, too late, that there spouse messed up moneywise: No insurance, second and third mortgages, upaid taxes, gambling debts, etc.
Life is often luck of the draw and the time. Imagine what people will be going through these next few years if you're NOT a millionaire getting tax cuts, while your % of taxes goes up the less you earn!
I'm mostly an underbuyer so I set myself line items so that I don't like like I don't have any money. I also made some rules for myself to spend out (paying for outsource of housework, house maintenance, etc.).
$50 sounds like it is too little for fun 🙂 Make some recurring eating out dates with friends, get a book subscription, take in some experiences with your kids, etc.
I think that a good way to think about a fun budget is to gauge the cost of 1-2 fun things that you know are in your budget and make that approximately the fun budget. Like, if a nice meal out and a frivolous purchase (or sports tickets or whatever fun looks like to you) totals 50, then that's a great start.
We spent years saving for our retirement, but now that we are both retired I am anxious about spending those savings! After all, we'll never be able to replenish those savings again. And a bigger worry for me is how I (or my husband for that matter) would cope on a single pension.
I'm a saver, once money goes into savings it is so hard to spend it. So I had to open an additional savings account and name it Spending. The purpose was to save for vacations etc.,. However, it was still hard to spend it. So I had to change the name to Short Term Savings Only To Be Used On Fun Stuff!
I've had only mixed results in spending it so it's fair to say I'm a work in progress
@jess, My husband teases me that once money goes into savings, I loathe pulling it out. So I have many "named" savings accounts including home repairs, car fund, taxes, and travel fund. Makes it easier for me to be willing to spend that money when I know if I have specifically set it aside for that purpose.
@Beverly, that is exactly what I do! That way I don’t feel guilty for spending the money set aside for that specific purpose.
Interesting question. I'm a little dubious about the label itself and also find the idea worth thinking about.
Personally I don't think I have my view of my financial situation is unrealistic although I do spend less than my income allows. That there are things I spend plenty on (at least by my definition) is the basis for my conclusion.
I have occasionally given myself a mandatory fun budget. For example, when I went to the King Arthur Baking store, otherwise I'd resist buying a cool tool (such as a bread rising bucket) or neat mix (dog treats). It worked for me.
For you, it might help to think about what you'd spend it on. Do you want a thing, an experience, a consumable? Visualizing buying it and using it might help make it happen.
Another way to visualize it is to think what you would do if you had $10 million (the question used to be $1MM but a million isn't what it used to be). Now that I mention it, I'd love to hear the Commentariat's answers - maybe another post?
I'd also be a little concerned that the money might stay in the bank instead of being spent each month so I've been thinking about to counter that impulse. Here's my idea: if you don't spend the money each month or specifically be saving for a bigger thing, give it to a charity you don't like. Up to you of course, these are just ideas to play with.
Neat question Renee, thanks for asking it.
I was also thinking I might not spend the money...sooooo, maybe I should do a post each month telling you guys what I did with my $50!
@WilliamB, why give to a charity you don't like? I'm not following your line of thinking there. Wait—is it to force yourself to do something fun or frivolous?
@Kristen, please do!! This is weird, but I love reading through your archives of how you spent your Christmas money. (I know, I'm a stalker.) But your recommendation of a Danish dough whisk was life changing for me, I put mine on Christmas list and have used it so much.
@Kristen, will you have a separate travel budget line? I recommend that. I have a vacation line and an "entertainment" line - but my entertainment includes my hobbies, so it's really a yarn line 🙂
@Kristen, What a great idea.
@Kristen, that would be great i would love to c that. when i get money i don't expect i invest it. i have my very own mutual fund.
@Kristen, Ooh yes. I’d love to hear of interesting ways to spend a little fun money from you, first and foremost, and from Frugal Girl Nation, as well. Even this post has me thinking along different lines than my usual, which is treating family members and friends to restaurants or lovely gifts (for occasions). Kinda boring.
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, the idea is to make the alternative unpleasant to you, as a disincentive. If the money just reverted to savings, that would not be a disincentive to Kristen, she might see that as a benefit. Ditto if it were a charity she liked.
Reporting back to us is a great idea - very in keeping with Kristen's ethos and incentive structure.
@Kristen,
I love that idea! It could be like five frugal things, only five fun things (or even just one fun thing) instead
For your fun money amount, my idea would be to think how much it would cost for you and a friend or child(ren) to go out to eat and see a movie, or whatever else is your idea of fun, and put that amount aside as fun money for the month for a while, then see if it's too much or not enough. You've taken a weekend away and you've made a trip to Hawaii- would you want to budget that into your fun money account on a monthly basis?
With my current schedule, I don't need a fun account, because the few things I have time to do are free or so low-cost, I don't have to set anything aside. I will have a fun account once I retire however, so I don't go overboard when I have more time to indulge myself.
I know my parents never saw themselves as having enough. Through scrimping and good luck, they ended up with some extra cash as they became senior citizens, but they always lived as though they didn't have any. Truth to be told, it wasn't that much, but it was a decent safety cushion for the first time in their lives. They were born in 1918 and 1920, so the Depression was a lived experience for them, as was war rationing. They had been raised poor before the Depression as well. They lived, and hence my siblings and I lived, with a scarcity outlook. DH's parents were born in 1912 and 1913, and they took the opposite attitude after the Depression and the war - his dad was blue collar, but he was good at his job, moved up and made good money, and by golly, they spent it. There would always be more money down the road, was their attitude. You can imagine the difficulties DH and I had in meshing those two mindsets.
I feel like I’ve run the whole spectrum! I grew up in an upper middle class family where money was never an issue and with the mindset that getting a college degree equals having a salary that would provide me that same life as an adult. Unfortunately, I spent my early twenties overspending while thinking I would soon be earning plenty of money to pay off my bills. My late twenties were about readjusting to reality and slowly chipping away at that debt. In my early 30s, recession hit and we spent several years with income fluctuations and the necessity of spending as little as possible. My 40s have been much better financially, with extra income going towards savings and investments, and being able to just buy things when we need or want them, but it has been hard to completely rid myself of that scarcity mindset. I frequently have guilt and anxiety about spending and always worry about something happening where we’ll no longer have enough money. Spending money on myself is still one of the hardest things to do, so I do not have any advice there!
Just to clarify and understand something very straightforward:
Was your ex-husband, Christian and a family man for much of his life, not willingly and with great enthusiasm, not contributing to the support of his minor child?
It's hard to wrap my head around that. It really is. Alimony is of course separate, but your... kid? Who you love? And brought into the world? See also, Christian and trying to do the right thing etc?
I hope that if one of my sons ever goes through a relationship ending where there are children - for ANY REASON - that they will continue to underwrite their minor children at the very minimum to the best of their ability and with willingness and enthusiasm.
If they did not do this, I would have some serious, serious introspection to do as per my parenting and what I had imparted and demonstrated around unconditional love and support and also, boringly, responsibility.
I'll stop now, but I'm muchly annoyed!
@Caro, I wondered the same thing. I know when Mom decided to move out, Dad wouldn't give her money to support me as punishment and a way to try to force her to come back. She was stubborn and we made it, but we were pretty darn poor.
Aww, Beverly, I am so sorry to hear that you lived through this. I can imagine how hurtful this is for a child, and my heart hurts for you. It is very disappointing when a person is both a hurtful spouse and a hurtful parent (though I must say, in my travels through the divorced wife world, these two seem to go together more often than not).
But also, I am cheering for your mom and I am so impressed with her tenacity. I wish I could give her a hug and a high five.
@Caro, I felt very sad too to hear that no child support payments were given to his daughter. I could say much more, but I won't.
To clarify: in the settlement, I did get back child support for 10 months out of the 24 months. But the main point in bringing this up in the post is that for the time before the divorce, I was living close to the edge of being broke (I didn't get any of this money until the divorce was finalized).
And that's why this not-close-to-being-broke phase of life feels both marvelous and surprising, and sometimes I forget that I have the wiggle room I do now.
Yes, you are correct, and I don't think I'm out of my bounds for stating that as fact, since it's public court record.
But also a caveat: I want to be sure the blame doesn't get placed in the wrong place. I want to be careful about what I say, since it is not all my story to tell, but I will say there there was no familial support from his side for this type of choice-making. And sometimes parents can do their best to raise their children to make good choices, but the adult children make poor choices anyway.
But I do for SURE support your efforts to raise sons that will have the integrity to love and support their children. We need good fathers and I hope yours keep to the good path you are encouraging them on. <3
One other thing: despite the circumstances, I made sure that my girl had everything she needed. I would have sacrificed endless things for myself before making her go without.
@Kristen, Mom worked hard to make sure I had everything I needed. As a 7th grader starting a new school, I felt like have 3 pairs of Wrangler jeans wasn't sufficient, but as an adult I can appreciate that it was. She obviously couldn't afford Levis, much to my disappointment.
I think good parents are always willing to sacrifice for their children. Part of our job description, in my opinion. I'm sure your girl had everything she needed.
@Beverly, Sadly this is more common than you might imagine--especially as no one wants to share that kind of information (What? My child doesn't deserve to have $$ to pay for her care? What kind of person does that?) . Even when the spouse being divorced has never demonstrated such an attitude. Divorce brings out a lot of mean, nasty and unconscionable stuff.
My father begrudged my mother the very very small amount he paid (which in no way was even a third of what my mother paid for my expenses) for "child support." He was too busy supporting his new wife and their son! Tough luck for those left behind.
@Beverly, i am so glad you are on the other side now. i am so sorry you went through that.
@Beverly, I am very impressed by your mom. Good for her for sticking to her guns. Wow.
@Kristen, My heart aches for you and your kids.
I had the same question as Caro when I read that your Zoe had no child support during the lawyer phase of divorce. I was so shocked. I’ve never known a parent like that in real life (and I never want to). I think of you as a "friend" and so I feel that I "know" those in your life.
How do some people sleep at night? I am so happy for the wiggle room of your current circumstances and love that you will soon have much more.
Your kids learned a valuable lesson but should never have had to.
@Kristen, there's a very serious line in an otherwise very frivolous movie. In "Clueless," Cher is complaining about having to see her stepbrother:
Cher: you were hardly married to his mother and that was like five years ago.
Dad: you divorce wives, not children.
@WilliamB, one of the many reasons it's such a great movie! I watched Clueless for the billionth time last week. I actually watched it all the time growing up because we had it taped off tv and I would watch it with my mum and sister.
Anyway, sorry for the segue - I totally agree with what everyone else is saying. I won't say everything I want to say about your ex!
@Beverly, I knew a single mom who was lucky (and hardworking) enough to find an affordable rental in a suburban school district. This was many years ago. Anyway, the school had extremely strict dress codes and the only jeans the girls could wear were Gloria Vanderbilt's. Back then, one pair would run you something like $100 or more. Obviously, out of the mom's reach, even if the ex paid child support...which most don't. Not to worry, the mom went and got some brownish-gold colored thread, the same color as on the designer jeans, and stitched them on the regular jeans they had. She just told her daughter to never tuck in her blouses, so that the school personnel could not see that what she was wearing lacked the fancy swan design and Gloria's name on the back pockets.
@Kristen, Your story reminded me of a guy I was friends with. He was in the last week, waiting for his divorce papers to come through so he could sign them. That week his soon to be ex-wife was in a small plane crash in a remote village, and ended up severely injured. He postponed the divorce for two years, until all her surgeries and PT were done, so that she would have health coverage through his gold-standard insurance. Now that is a good man.
Oh my goodness, yes, that IS a good man. I have so much respect for a choice like that.
That's the kind of mid-divorce behavior that could make you question your decision! But when someone behaves even worse than usual during a divorce, that's a nice sign you're on the right track.
@Lindsey, That is a wonderful man, but it furthers my belief in the need for public healthcare. So many women (and anyone in an abusive relationship) can get stuck in an unhealthy marriage if it's tied to health insurance.
@Sophie in Denmark, you are so right! Having health insurance tied to employment has many negative effects.
Thank you for a thought-provoking topic!
I truly have all I need and most of what I want. In the spring i will celebrate the 21st anniversary of my 50th birthday (ha!) and am still happily full time employed, although my income is far from huge. My house is paid for and I really don't know what I would do with myself without a job to get me up and going daily. Probably finish all those projects I never have time for 🙂
@L, meant to add, that is where my "fun money" goes -- creating things.
In my world, $50 is reasonable fun money. Three bucks can buy you a bag of not-awful chocolate. Twelve dollars can buy a multipack of interesting beverage to try. And it turns out that $46 can buy two chairs, a jigsaw puzzle and a lemon zester at a resale shop, plus a couple hours of alone time.
Haha, yes, this was along the lines of what I was thinking; that I could probably do a lot with $50 if I tried!
@Karen., I love your fun ideas! Eating out is not ever on my list, unless it's what I need to do to spend time with friends.
@Karen.,
Jigsaw puzzles are so much fun!
Money dysmorphia is an interesting subject! Having been raised to be frugal and then having to be so throughout my marriage I seem to have an "interesting" relationship with money. Being retired, building a handicap accessible home in AR when our other home is in MO (due to husbands diagnosis) and trying to figure out what to do with investments to keep them from being wiped out in the event he ends up in LTC, is exhausting. I find myself worrying about the small things then spending on large items. Can we afford it, in a word yes, but doesn't keep me from having anxiety at times. Am also trying to be more conscious about giving to individuals and missions I would like to support. Have finally come to the conclusion Life isn't easy.
@Jennifer G,
Yes, it's exhausting, but there are people out there with experience and knowledge who are trustworthy. I'm rooting for you.
@JD, thank you very much. Sometimes when you seek out help, think elder care lawyer, it is not helpful at all, just reinforces the idea that you can work a lifetime and save only to have 1 spouse go through almost everything. I pray a lot and have to let it go.
@Jennifer G,
My lawyer told me about spousal refusal - it may just be a state thing, but may not. She said a spouse can refuse to impoverish her- (or him-) self in order to pay for care for the other spouse. It might be worth asking about if no one has mentioned it. We moved any money with his name on it to either me alone or me and our kids. (DH knew what I was doing and why. )
Prayer does help!
Interesting! I was thinking about the same thing yesterday. I’m frugal because that’s how I’m wired. In my 20s, I was setting goals that are very FIRE-like. I’ve always thought that if I spend like a drunken sailor when times are good, then I’ll feel pretty stupid when times are bad and I have no savings.
BUT. Because I’m frugal most of the time, I can afford to splash out on a nice vacation or a dinner out every once in a while. Also, I can afford to give my kids a full ride through college.
I guess I’m frugal when it matters?
My in-laws have more money than they’ll be able to spend in their lifetime, yet they scrimp and save like they’re in poverty. For example, there were no eggs in their fridge yesterday, because “$5.99 is too expensive!” Ugh. I don’t want to end up like that.
I do think it’s easy to get caught up in frugality and forget to have a little fun every once in a while. With this thought in mind, my husband and I went out to dinner last night, and it was very nice!
@Ann on the farm, Because we may be similar in finances.and mindset to your in laws, I'd like to offer up that your in-laws resistance to high egg prices might be more about perceived value than simply price. I likewise won't pay current high prices because in my brain it feels like I'm being ripped off. And I dislike being taken advantage of, which is how I'm perceiving this latest go round with egg prices. Plus, Trader Joe's has never altered their normal egg pricing thru any of the recent egg events, so that's where I happily buy my eggs. 🙂
@Tamara R, my Trader Joe’s raised their price from $2.99 to $3.49 and has a limit on how many you can buy, so I assume it is a loss leader. Even at $5.99 per dozen, eggs are a nutritional “good deal”.
I hear where you’re coming from, and I’ve definitely changed my behavior around buying eggs, but I still need to have a few in my fridge!
@Ann on the farm, it is weird to me that people will donate thousands of dollars to a charity(s) yet won’t buy an item they need or would get pleasure from because they perceive it is (slightly) too expensive.
I guess we tend to be more on the "spendy" side of things. A friend once told me something that has stayed with me: do you have a problem? do you have money to solve it? Then you don't have a problem. I try to remember not to stress about spending money that we have.
We are fortunate enough to have good jobs and are financially secure. Our house and cars are paid off, we have savings and significant retirement savings. I still worry about the money lasting through retirement. The unknowns of how long the money will have to last and how much things like health insurance cost keep me up at night. So, I think it may be hard for us to spend money in retirement.
@Beverly, it's a sting viewpoint. I sometimes divide my problems into ones money can solve and ones money can't.
I have learned "cleaning house frequently" in all my relationships, allows me freedom from factless drama, keeping a clean financial life keeps my free from financial insecurity.
I was single in a LCLA making a very reasonable teacher's salary but I had credit card debt, a student loan and owed my Dad 10,000 that he lent me to buy a modest house. One day, I had a parent conference for one of my students. Both of her parents worked at Taco Bell. They had another child as well. I went home to my new boyfriend who was busy saving his family farm. I told him: You need to teach me about money. Why do I have debt if that family can raise two kids on minimum wage.
He took a spiral notebook and penciled out a budget, giving me priorities to pay off . Within a little more than a year I was debt free. That boyfriend became my husband two years later. He told me he never would have married me if I hadn't taken the "pill" he prescribed. Financial responsibility was too important a characteristic for him.
Now 61, I haven't had credit card debt since then. I have a 403B and a nice pension. Although I plan to not draw from the 403B for 10 years, I did take enough to take a dream expedition boat to Antartica. We are younger enough and healthy enough to do it now.
@Mary Ann, I had a boyfriend in my 20s who was the son of immigrants, and the dad had died young, yet his mom owned multiple houses that she rented out, and she managed this on a cafeteria lady salary! It was impressive.
@Mary Ann, What is LCLA?
@Fru-gal Lisa, Low Cost of Living Area. There is not many in California, but I am in one ( relatively, speaking.)
Boy do I relate to this! I came out of a divorce 20 years ago with credit card debt that I wasn’t responsible for running up but was responsible for paying off. Those were lean times. I have a hard time splurging now too. My current, wonderful husband recently left a toxic job for one that pays less and I had to stop myself from freaking out thinking we will lose the house, how will we pay the bills, etc. When the reality is more like we will be skipping a vacation this year, cancelling Netflix, and putting less toward savings. I also work full time, we will be fine, but it’s hard to get out of that mindset.
How much fun money you give yourself depends greatly on your budget and circumstances. If $50 sounds good to you, start there.
I feel like I have a reasonable sense of how much money we have. We do have some big unknowns (cost of college, whether I will get another reasonably high paying job, etc), & we would like to do a big remodel. I'd say we're in a place of pretty big flux, given we're about to have two kids in college for 3-4 years.
But, in terms of understanding our cash flow management & overall financial picture, I feel well informed.
For me, my goal is to spend aligned with our values. I do often want to find the best deals, but at a reasonable time commitment. I also enjoy finding travel benefits & hacks, so spend more time on that then, say, grocery shopping. We also have healthy eating goals that largely trump saving $1 or $2 here & there. Not to say we don't pay attention, just that our primary goal is health. We are also at a phase where we spend a lot of money entertaining & hosting DS17's friends. That's going to end this summer when they all go away to college, and we are totally comfortable hosting & inviting his friends to go on trips with us, etc, as we know the window for this is very short. So, what our budget in this category is now is not what we expect it to be in the longer term.
Everyone is just one possible disaster away from financial ruin. And it’s happening to more and more people. And the used to be dependable insurance and even public recovery assistance is becoming “sketchier” every day. I’m very amazed at how kind and giving the everyday neighbor and citizen is to those in need. But at the increased frequency of catastrophe there may come a time when people don’t have excess funds to give away.
And I’m paying more for gas since last week, what’s up with that.
And goodwill always wants you to round up your change and give it to them? Isn’t it enough that every item is given to you tax free and you receive government grants to help pay workers who some get below minimum wage.
So if someone hangs onto money I don’t think it’s dysmorphia I think it’s smart.
@Tiana, right? I worry that a disaster will happen and people will be looking wistfully at the expensive wallpaper they imported from France, or the Christian Louboutin shoes in their closet, and wishing they could hop into a Time Machine and make better spending choices!
@Ann on the farm, I do think the other extreme is unhealthy; ie, not spending money on anything fun or 'unnecessary' and going through life with a scarcity mindset.
@Sophie in Denmark, oh, I agree! I tend to splurge on things like food and experiences. (I am having halibut for dinner tonight!) I just think there are some material items that might irk me if I fall on hard times!
$50 might be too low but try it for now! One thing my husband and I do in our budget is our unused fun money rolls over month to month like a "savings" category.
I've been a similar situation to your divorce fees, with my dental and medical bills. There were times when I'd have hundreds (or more than a thousand) dollars leaving my account, and I'd sell stuff to lessen the difference between my paycheck and the bills. Or I'd babysit, or housesit, or any other frugal hack we all know and love. But now I'm in the position where I still have the large medical bills (LOL) but I have a spouse to split them with, and my spouse's income is a good income. I don't have to hustle on Facebook marketplace, I don't have to avoid takeout meals, etc.
I still do though, I think mostly because I'm aware that any of these positions could change. We could separate, nobody lives forever, there's definitely more dental and medical bills in the future, no job is 100% secure.
I also enjoy a challenge. I think a lot of us find frugality to be a bit of a game. A lot of us also use frugality as a political and/or moral choice, to fight against the forces of waste and consumerism. My main goal now is to really be aware of the line between challenging myself with frugality and depriving myself. I'm happy to skip a takeout meal that was otherwise unessential, but I don't want to decline a chance to socialize over a meal with a good friend out of fear we don't or won't have enough. That would be a scarcity mindset, in my situation. (And, I'm very grateful to be in the position now where I have the option!)
I think the amount of your fun money really depends on how you plan to use it! Massages, random coffee or donut runs, weekend trips, meals with friends, museum or symphony admissions?
One thing that has really stuck with me from a financial podcast is that there is no happiness ceiling to spending on others (like gifts or donations.) I recently joined a local women's nonprofit group where we pool money and distribute it back to the community. The power of numbers means the donations can be really effective. But, I also still have the "impromptu ice cream run" wiggle room in our budget, because there's nothing more fun than spontaneously deciding to get ice cream 🙂
Sure do !! Strongly underestimate my financial status.
This touches on something I have wondered, but always forget to ask...I wondered if you have a budget. Not so much to keep your spending in check, but more to know what you spend each month on each area. So, maybe not even a budget as much as an end of the month review. My DH and I are more in the review area now than the budget area. I know what our average is so I put that into a budget at the beginning of the month, but it's not hard numbers and we can flex if needed. I do like the review though cause sometimes I realize from it that we've spent way more than I like on eating out or on miscellaneous stuff for the house....shows me my weak points haha.
On the article, my Dh has this. He grew up very poor and went without a lot. Even though he has the money now, spending large sums can make him very uncomfortable. He likes to have a certain amount of disposable cash on hand and worries about what could come up. I've never had that because I didn't share his experiences as a child...I came from a family that didn't have a lot, but we always found a way to be comfortable and figure it out.
We do budget for fun cause if not I would feel like it was too much. We have a dining budget for fun and an entertainment budget for fun (movies or events or whatever). I also have a house budget for the aforementioned miscellaneous house stuff. And with the house renovation I have a budget for that also monthly to know how much we are putting into this house.
this is a very interesting topic. i am not able to keep myself in the style i was accustomed to. my own bedroom, air conditioner, private school from kindergarten through college.
no siblings, no cousins. my folks bought a new car every two years. my dad always telling my mom she spent too much money. when she passed in 1975 my dad brought $1000 worth of clothes back to Saks Fifth Avenue Dept store with the tags still on them. He got a full refund.
fast forward my family of four live in a one bedroom apt in NYC. no air conditioning, no car, gas and electric is included in the rent. the public library four blocks away, every imaginable cuisine in any direction walking distance. my husband adores me and i adore him. i wanted him to retire he wants to work. when i was poor as a church mouse without a pot to piss in to use a few cliches, sorry y'all, instead of putting money in the bank, I put it in the stock market. i don't care what the dow does or what warren buffett says although i admire him a ton. as long as i have more money in the account at the end of the year than i had at the beginning i am happy.
i went to school in macon, ga. so y'all is familiar to me. i would have stayed there after colllege had my mom not passed when i was a junior. but my life turned out a million times better than i thought it would. and i am grateful. i teach my kids about investing, not to buy a car unless they are paying cash. 13 yr old son wants a car and a yacht. 16 year old daughter no car. hubby got the only jewish woman on the planet who didn't care that he had no car. the onlyy debt my kids should have is for a house. and they should have a 15 yr mortgage.
I can't keep a white sweater looking pristine for an hour. I need your secrets!
Yes, this is a thing and I am slowly crawling out of the money dysmorphia hole that was dug for/by me after growing up in a household with limited means and then living below the poverty line for years after university. I have a hard time spending money and/or have a hard time not feeling GUILTY about spending money on anything that isn't absolutely necessary. I've gotten a lot better about this in the last few years, but it's definitely a "thing".
I love the idea of "fun" money. I tend to be avoid specifically budgeting funds as my go-to approach has been to spend as little money as possible. So I think I'd struggle to give myself a limit since I don't tend to "spend out" very often so when I do I'd rather be able to just do it. If I gave myself a budget, I think I'd be less likely to buy something fun ("What if I spend it all now and then can't do a fun thing later in the month.") Another way to look at it might be having funds from a designated destination be your "fun" money. For example: everything you sell on Ebay, those proceeds go toward something fun?
Reminds me of the expression "champagne dreams on a beer budget" for wanting things above your means... and maybe some people have beer on a champagne budget situation lol
I don't really like to spoil myself on really expensive things because in my mind, I don't deserve nice things. Right now I'm at a point where paying $8/mo for Netflix isn't that big of a deal but when it went up, the wife and I considered canceling it (or at the very least putting a pause on it.)
On the flip side, I will happily pay $11 or so for a book that I will most likely read once or twice at best.
So I don't really know.
I'm guessing I'm in the minority here, but I am 100% money dysmorphic to the side of thinking I have more.
When I was fresh out of college I lived alone across the street from work, in a duplex that cost less than 500$/ month, making good money.
I'm now married with 2 children, a mortgage, and a commute. I'm still the sole breadwinner, and the mortgage is roughly 1200$ a month more than that duplex.
While I don't do the extravagant travel I used to, I still think that I am "flush" with cash. I've never had extravagant tastes but I eat out on the regular and will order an appetizer whenever I want to.
@Ginger, sounds perfectly fine to me. hope you enjoy yourself. you deserve it.
This is such an interesting topic. I sometimes think I have money dismorphia looking at my savings and then at my fear of spending. I have budgeted and saved a lot for vacation and when it comes to booking one, it almost physically pains me to spend that money. I wish I could get over that. I just look at my bank account instead of using the money.
@Maggie, counting one’s money can actually be a hobby and/or something that is comforting.
What goes into the fun category is different for each person. I don’t put eating out or getting take-out under the general grocery or food budget but instead in a “gonna-be-totally-wasteful/blowing-my-retirement” category, and I know not everyone feels that way. That’s probably very related to family-of-origin issues!
@OregonGuest, the name of that category speaks to my heart. I'm still working on not getting so worked up after going out to eat, even though it's very much okay at this point in my life.
I noticed that there’s now a Freeze on Release of Health Info From Government Agencies. I was wondering as a nurse is there some kind of protection or insurance for front line workers in major health events? Or do front line workers risk their health and finances?
@Tiana,
It's possible that your state or local public health depts. will still release health info, even if the feds don't; I'm not sure how Trump's order will affect them. However, the internet gives us all free health info, as long as we call up reliable sources such as the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins, or whatever hospital/clinic/medical school is a major one in your area. Your own doctor and/or pharmacist can also clue you in to current trends in health and medicine, and suggest reliable sources of info such as websites or magazines. It's important to get reliable sources and not quack medicine sales sites or publications. I agree that it's a pity the feds are not going to do their job but we can navigate around this roadblock.
@Fru-gal Lisa, I go to fda for food recall info and cdc for latest trending maps when I travel. It was quick, easy, and dependable.
I guess if they do away with food inspection I’ll just rely on the town crier or for plagues keep an eye out for dead carts to know what’s going on.
I am definitely not qualified to speak on this because I am currently ill-informed. But I am sure that whenever the dust settles from things like this, I'll receive some up to date information from my work/school.
Yes! Set aside fun money. I struggled with money dysmorphia for years, especially after the pandemic. I had a hard time spending on me for anything! Then I started cash envelopes and making it ok to spend on myself. I made envelopes for clothes, household goods, and for things like memberships to the art museum. Then I dug a little deeper in how I could use my money in a positive way for mental health.
I love to write so I gave myself an envelope for writing supplies and for drinks at a coffee house when I wanted to write there. I gave myself an envelope for self care and even one for splurges like a nice handbag or great lotion - special luxuries.
We work so darn hard and at the end of the day if we deprive ourselves of enjoying fun times and little luxuries it makes living life so much harder. Life is hard enough and we should spend money on things that fill our cup.
As to the amounts I save I will list them here: Per monthly paycheck: Clothes $100 (This gets depleted fast when I need new work clothes or walking shoes. Its also the one that I use as wiggle room if its in a healthy state). Memberships: $10 a month, (it accumulated fast during Covid). Writing supplies and coffee $20 (I accumulate here when I take home coffee to the library) Self care $20. Splurge currently has $50. Splurge is what happens when I have accumulated too much in my self care fund (over $100) or in my coffee and writing supplies fund (between $60-$80). When that happens the amount over what I keep in those, goes into splurge. That way I am not actively saving to splurge, but I have a cushion to do it. When I have over $100 in splurge, then I create a Costco envelope to help cushion any bigger buys when things are on sale like my favorite gluten free chicken or turkey bacon. I hope this helps!
@LeAnn, thanks for sharing how your system works. Always useful to have specific ideas to think about.
this is a wonderful discussion. while never giving it a proper diagnostic name I must admit to having wondered about this possibility while reading mine and others comments. Thank you so very much for bringing this to my attention.
As for the fun budget amount, i would think initially being a bit scant to start might have a positive psychological outcome. Imagine finding out that it would be possible to INCREASE your FUN budget amount,
I'm a lawyer (public interest) and I feel like I couldn't afford a lawyer if I needed one. Legal fees are outrageous.
I definitely have money dysmorphia. I grew up with a single mom and brother and we always had to choose between lights or food and spent a particular summer homeless. I've done well, but it's been a constant struggle to get here. I finally make a decent salary and my husband has a great job too. We save and do all the budget things but sometimes, I fall into the money obsession pit. Calculating every dollar, where it goes. Not buying certain foods to save, like stuff that was vital as a kid, but not necessary at all as an adult. I noticed it happens mostly when I'm triggered with things like high stress or family drama. I do catch myself after a lil bit or my husband brings me back if he notices. It's such a weird thing.
Needless to say, I'm an obsessed saver but my husband is more spendy (in a good way), so we even out!
We’re in a great financial place, and sometimes I will really mull over getting a $5 fancy coffee as a treat.
I really struggle with this.
When our daughter was young, all three of us received an allowance to spend or save however we wanted. That was very freeing. I'm not going to talk amounts because that was many, many years ago. (She's 55 now.)
Haha, that is probably similar to my childhood allowance back in the day. It would buy almost nothing now!
I had no idea it had a name! No matter how much I have, there will always be a poor kid inside that's worried about having more month than money.
I think that how much to put aside for "fun spending" depends on what one considers fun. Maybe start a slush fund for a ski trip for next winter.
As I started to read this post, those who've lived through the Great Depression immediately came to mind as you hear story after story after story of how difficult it was for many to get out of the pure survival mindset.
Yay for wiggle room in your budget, and for fun money!
I've been thinking about this recently too. My parents give me money every year for Christmas and my birthday, and I almost never spend it on anything. I'm not much of a shopper and I don't like stuff. But I've been reading more about joy and I've decided that I'm going to actually spend some money on things that make me happy. So I bought a puzzle advent calendar off of ebay (around $20; I'm saving it for Christmas), and have been looking at some other puzzles on eBay. I've also been looking at some fun but totally unnecessary beautiful zippered pouches from Rifle Paper Company ($38).
All that to say, I think giving yourself a budget for fun is a great idea, and it would be great to have a post every now and then detailing how you spent your fun money.
Oh yes, I still have to tell myself I am in a little bit better place, and not saving any small plastic bag to rewash and every box "for in case...". Not rich by any means, but my daughter also got a bursary. I still definitely look at prices and compare but I have to tell myself to relax if I have to get takeout when work is hectic, eg. It gets ingrained so deeply to not waste, specially if you have kids to feed and clothe.
I try to rather spend on experiences now - making memories.
When I was trying to balance frugality, savings, and fun, I gave myself a percentage of my income to spend. It was easier for my brain to understand a portion for savings, some for necessities, a bit to give generously, and some just for fun.
Tomorrow isn't promised and good things in life are worthwhile today. So, if it's 1% of your paycheck, or $50 or some other way to choose, it's worth spending on things that make you happy. Full price symphony tickets. Ice cream. A brand new book by an author you want to support. Take out after a hard shift. Really nice socks. Whatever makes like delightful.
Nothing wrong with mad money. I was at a fundraising auction one time, I had a couple grand in mad money. Well the woman bidding against me was an established physician hence my money wasn't mad enough. She was bound and determined to win (she was a consistent, generous supporter of the organization) which she did. But we had fun as did the auctioneer.
Kudos to you for being able to open credit cards during your getting divorce period. I remember a woman from my town who got divorced (had four minor children). This was before the laws were changed re: credit scores etc. Despite having utilities with her soon-to-be ex-husband, she ended having to put down deposits (her folks helped her out). Sad to say, too many want us to go back to the era where a woman was totally dependent on a male. Not on my watch.
Interesting question. Being poor carries a deep anxiety for a long time; worrying about managing abundance is very different. But if you can cover your basic needs, you are OK. For fun, think of what you enjoy and invest in it—symphony series tickets, follow up on a hobby and improve (garden, furniture construction and design, cooking, needle arts, photography). Buy a museum membership and attend regularly to see new shows, hear curator talks, etc. Or deepen an interest: I LOVE geography and am a good traveler through appreciation of cultural and physical geography. I also enjoy talks and films at art museums, and special exhibits. Life is too short to work all the time, and as an adult you have more agency for recreation. Dance class? Volunteer in a cause important to you? Support music education in public schools? Having fun sometimes gives you a window on your best self, even new ideas for who you want to be tomorrow.
I am going to throw out the question to you - retirement funds. You were married for ten years so you could collect half your ex's SS, full amount if he dies - and so could his current wife OR any other ex's to whom he was married 10 years. Interesting isn't it but I digress.
It may be tough to know what your half would be (but maybe your lawyer had a figure at the time). Good chance you'll get in your 40 quarters but will drawing on your own account be more than 1/2 your ex's?
When it comes to living in poverty/at the poverty level in retirement, women are still the majority. Not saying have no fun, just crunch some numbers and be honest.
I watched two sets of grandparents (males had pensions that were soo offset by their SS it wasn't funny) struggle in retirement - regardless of money management. I started saving for retirement when I turned 18. At age 21, I had a banker tell me I was "too young to worry about retirement". I ignored him.
@Selena, @Kristen - fully understanding you might have received a QDRO of pension/401k/403b
This is EXACTLY what happened with my parents and others who lived through the Great Depression! No matter how much they actually had, they FELT poor. They used to tell us kids that we couldn't afford this or that - even really small things. It was just a knee-jerk reaction.
I used to wonder why it was called the Great Depression - it didn't sound terribly "great" to me. But back in the day, "great" and "grand" simply meant "BIG."