Meet a Reader | WilliamB
WilliamB is one of the most faithful commenters here and thus, was one of the top-most-requested readers for this feature.
But WilliamB is also one of the most private internet people I know.
So, I sent an email request along with full permission to be as private as desired, and yay! I got an email last week with the interview answers.
No pictures came in the email (not everyone in the world is as obsessed with taking pictures as me, apparently), so I'm just going to sprinkle some of my own throughout in order to break up the text.
Here's WilliamB:
1. Tell us a little about yourself
I shall take the bull by the horns and say upfront that I keep most of my personal information to myself. There’s a lot I just don’t want out in the Interwebs.
This is very much like how I interact with good friends – we spend so much time talking about things outside us (our friends, recipes, economics, history, books, politics, etc.) that we rarely talk about ourselves or our jobs.
I’m a city dweller, have a white-collar office job, own my home, have a dog and a car, and a family I’m close to.
I was a bit burned out on cooking before the pandemic and it's only gotten worse since. There are days when slicing a melon seems like too much work for dinner.
2. How long have you been reading The Frugal Girl?
I don’t remember, maybe 12 years? There are archives available so I’ve read every post.
3. How did you get interested in saving money?
A good question for which I don’t have a good answer. It’s not necessity, exactly.
I was brought up in a comfortable middle-class environment and my parents never talked about finances, neither during the lean years nor the fat ones.
But while there have always been things I spent money on, I didn’t throw it away.
I made a relative fortune - $40 - at a casino during a family trip when I was 12: every time an adult gave me $10 or so (I was guiding my blind grandfather, who liked playing the slots sometimes) I stuck it straight into my pocket.
Even when I was broke, I wasn’t poor. I may not have had available cash but I always had an education, the training to be a good employee, and a family to fall back on (whether I wanted them or not sometimes ;-> ).
4. What's the "why" behind your money-saving efforts?
Another good question for which I don’t have a good answer.
Part of it is an exercise in discipline. Another part is that I’m just not a flashy person; I’m the sort who would be the millionaire next door rather than the financial hollow drum. I like knowing that I have money set aside for needs and wants.
For example, this year my house has needed a lot of work, including a new roof, and because of good luck and good planning, I can get some of my wants done also.
The only picture I had of a roof!
One doesn’t always have good luck and good planning can help when the luck runs out.
For example, the roof needed replacing just a year after the chimney needed a lot of work, and I was finally able to find someone to install venting bathroom fans.
That I found someone after years of searching is great, that it was in the same year that I replaced the roof isn’t so great.
5. What's your best frugal win?
Does being born to parents who value education and who know how to deal with the working world count? Because that gave me a huge boost in the life sweepstakes.
Aside from that, I’m most proud of a time when I found an outcome that made all three parties better off.
Both I and my co-worker/friend traveled to the same city for work, for separate conferences, and booked into separate hotels. My friend’s hotel was overbooked and there was no room at the inn.
Usually, the hotel pays for the guest to stay in a different hotel.
But my friend’s hotel was trying to weasel out of that, instead suggesting increasingly impossible solutions culminating in one that was actually fraudulent.
So I stepped in.
I told the hotel that this was going to be the deal: my friend would take care of finding a place to stay (with me, we’d been planning to make a night of it anyway), the hotel would not bill our employer for that night’s stay, and the hotel would give my friend a night’s stay at any of the chain’s hotels in the US.
It was a win-win-win.
The hotel didn’t have to pay a rival chain for my friend’s room. Our employer didn’t have to pay for that night’s hotel room.
And my friend didn’t have to pay for the hotel when we took another trip later that year.
6. What's a dumb money mistake you've made?
I can think of two suits I never wore. I got suckered into them and, in the end, donated them with tags still attached.
7. What's one thing you splurge on?
I feel like I have a lot of them but my top two are food and travel.
There’s been plenty of opportunities to splurge on food during the pandemic and I mourn the loss of travel.
I haven’t been to a new state or out of the country in over 2 years and it’s looking like it’ll be another 8 months before I get the opportunity.
8. What's one thing you aren't remotely tempted to splurge on?
Fancy personal care.
Extravagant haircuts, manicures; whatever it is that people get, I probably don’t get it. Even my father gets more manicures than I do.
9. If $1000 was dropped into your lap today, what would you do with it?
Give some, save some. If you want me to spend a financial gift, you’d better give me a gift certificate.
10. Share a frugal tip with other Frugal Girl readers
FG has shared so many with us that it’s hard to think of one she hasn’t already covered.
Ah, OK, got it: negotiate. There are two basic steps to negotiation: the first is enlarging the pie, the second is getting a larger piece of it. I’m much better at the first than the second. My hotel experience above, is a great example of enlarging the pie.
Enlarging the pie usually involves either reallocating resources so they end up with those who value them the most (such as swapping baseball cards) or asking for something that is more valuable to you than to them (such as getting a comp’ed dessert when there’s been a problem with your meal – the dessert is more valuable to you than the cost is to the restaurant).
Ask if they can cut you a deal, or if there’s a discount (AAA? student? Rotary Club?) you could take advantage of.
Look for something you want that is cheaper for them to give you; for example, if the plasterers mess up doing your wall, ask them to paint the rest of the room as well. It may only cost them $100 in extra labor but you’d have to pay someone else $200 to do it.
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Hi WilliamB! I don't really have any questions, but I did want to note that you are a fantastic writer. Also, solidarity on the kitchen burn-out. I can't actually stay out of the kitchen, but I'm sure not trying out anything new or complicated that makes me spend any more time in it lately.
@kristin @ going country,
Yes, I second the fantastic writer comment!
Thanks for sharing WilliamB! I find your approach to negotiation and problem resolution very helpful. If there is any comfort in numbers, I am also tired of cooking!
Thank you William B for sharing.
Your negotiation advice is really useful, enlarging the pie is a great analogy and as someone who still likes to cook even after 3 lockdowns this image will stick with me !!
@Joanne in the U.K., agreed, the enlarge the pie idea was great. I always find negotiating really awkward but this idea is a good one!
Agreed -- "Enlarge the pie" -- what a great instant visual!
Hello, WilliamB. One of my sons is also very private about online things; that's why rarely (if ever) will anybody see an entire family photo online. I actually think it's smarter than my approach.
I am also tired of cooking (though I do love it). It's coming up with ideas that's the problem usually. But now, I'm tired of it because our AC is out and it is hot; I'm hoping by Thursday I can be thankful that our AC has been repaired.
@Jody S., I am sharing your broken air conditioning struggle! This must have been the weekend for that to happen. Think cool thoughts!
WilliamB, I enjoyed hearing from you. I, too, am hesitant to give out much personal information online. I think my teens have appreciated not having their lives documented on social media. Sometimes I miss out on social information that would have been nice to have, but mostly I feel like I have avoided a lot of unnecessary drama.
@Jody S., good luck. I hope the weather is a bit cooler for you while you wait.
Enlarging the pie is such a great way to approach negotiation rather than “winners” or “losers”. Really enjoyed this thoughtful post and your approach to frugality. I think your personality really came across.
Nice to meet you!
Thanks for sharing, WilliamB! I hadn't thought about negotiating in the terms you have, and it was really helpful to read.
I feel you on kitchen burn-out. Simplifying meals helped for a while, but here I am again wishing I didn't have to cook. This too shall pass...eventually, right?
@Kaitlin, Hopefully we do what we have to do. I'm wondering if fancy cooking was something I liked for a long time but that that time has now passed. The utter disinclination, however, will pass. I'm absolutely certain that the pandemic has a lot to do with it.
Hi WilliamB, it is good to read from you! I fully understand your reluctance to share too much personal information. I really like that we do get a sense of your personality in the answers that you've provided!
Kristin, your add-on photos were great! Lol
Good to hear from WilliamB!
I enjoyed the interview. I hear you on cooking burnout but it helps that we're not fussy eaters.
I love your tip about negotiating and the great reminder that the pie can be grown.
I think the Best Frugal Win nod to your parents is appreciated less often than it should be. My parents had similar traits and it has made life much easier for me and my siblings.
@K D, So true about the Best Frugal Win - excellent reminder to check my privilege, as the kids say.
@priskill, Checking one's privilege is such a useful concept. It's great to see many subtle ideas getting names and a lot of press. Makes it much easier to address and deal with.
Right??? It really helps me to understand and APPLY the concept 😉
Thanks for sharing WilliamB! You've mentioned negotiation before and I appreciate hearing details about it since it's not a strength of mine. Your example above reminds me to take a step back and put myself in the other person's shoes, to think about what might be a less painful solution to them that's also useful for us.
And I too am feeling a bit weary of cooking! (But hungry now for pie...)
WilliamB - I really enjoyed today's write up (you are a gifted writer) & liked the perspective on expanding the pie. On reflection, so many of my favorite frugal moments are when everyone benefited (selling a used item to someone who is thrilled with the item & you are thrilled to get rid of it & keep it out of a landfill, or what have you.)
That’s an interesting way to think about negotiating, thanks! It makes me realize I’ve never thought much or read about the art of negotiation before. And the part about your parents - absolutely! It’s like winning the lotto. I did nothing to deserve it but it made every bit of difference to my experience in the world.
That was great. Thanks for playing Bill! 🙂
WilliamB,
Your comments are always among the few that I read on FG posts. Thanks for responding to these questions!
The phrase "training to be a good employee" sticks with me.
That I got at least in part from my parents, from their attitude toward chores, and from a few comments my Dad made when I was younger. He was in charge of hiring many seasonal high school students and commented about the ones who were good workers. Those people, if their assignment was done, would pick up a broom and start sweeping or otherwise make themselves useful while still on the clock. I used that advice at my first high school job, and I was the one who was hired back.
I have been reading FG since 2008 or so, but I almost never comment. (It's a combination of being an introvert and perpetually about a month behind on reading posts!) I somehow noticed this post right away today, recognized your name immediately and was excited to read more about you. Thanks for all your thoughtful comments over the years, you are an important part of what makes this a great community.
Very nice photo combinations Kristen. Also, thanks for playing William B.
"Sometimes slicing up a melon seems too much work." Amen, brother, amen.
William, I just love "Does being born to parents who value education and who know how to deal with the working world count?" My parents valued education but they didn't know a thing about how the professional world works so I always, always felt at a disadvantage there. My parents would often insist that I should do X or Y in a professional milieu, and we'd fight when I said no, that's not how it works.
This came up again recently, as I and my son didn't know he was supposed to be doing internships for years on Wall Street to get a job there upon graduation. Not knowing how the deal works and not knowing enough to ask is killer. I cried very hard with frustration, feeling like I failed my son.
@Rose, I'm sorry you/your son have that frustrating experience! I've had moments where I felt like "Wait, did I miss the memo" - so I can sympathize with that sinking feeling..
@Rose, My dear husband was challenged in this way also. Fortunately he had a mentor. His parents were kind, generous and valued education. However, they didn’t understand the other social rules of work such as how to dress, how to behave or how to get ahead.
For example, after our first son was born, we were perpetually tired. (Being s new parent is hard!) We were discussing this in front of my MIL , and she ask my husband, “Why don’t you just put your head down on your desk and take a little cat nap if you need it?” Sadly, she meant it.
@Rose, You did not fail your son. That's a hard thing to live through and a hard thing to learn. Pretty much every group, deliberately or otherwise, has ways to keep insiders in and outsiders out. It's a human thing and usually hard to crack. There's a line in Lois McMaster Bujold's "Mirror Dance", wherein an outsider observes that all the intricate names for each little part of every kind of edged weapon was "... an absolutely fractal knowledge-base, the kind created by, and in turn creating, a closed in-group..."
I don't wish to take away from the pain and challenge, but even so, blaming yourself for this is blaming yourself for not knowing everything.
@WilliamB,
The line "an absolutely fractal knowledge-base" is wonderful. Thanks for sharing.
Also I do blame myself for not knowing everything. I'm friends with Wall Street billionaires (I live in the Hamptons)--I should have asked them the process. Tearing up just typing this. I'd so hoped for my children that they wouldn't have to struggle the way I did.
Well, my son did get his job, though it's not a very good one, and he'll apply to grad school. He's brilliant, with perfect SAT scores, so he'll blow them out of the water.
@Rose, It's stinks that that's how we live and learn, and that's how we live and learn. So quit blaming yourself, you hear?!
Grad school is a great way to get another bite at the apple. Grad schools are known to be places where people make dramatic career changes. Even better, they often have placement offices and companies that interview on campus or via the placement office. Many placement offices offer other support to the students, such as sessions in how to interview, mock interviews, training sessions, video taping, and so on. These sessions often cover some of the unspoken rules as well: for example, why not to read a newspaper while waiting for an interview (messy, noisy, and time consuming to put away when your name is called) and how to dress for which kind of interviews. The placement office may be able to help him craft the right story - smarts and knowledge aren't always enough, having a good pitch helps, too.
Another thing that the placement office can help with is how to research a company, either before asking for the interview or before the interview itself. It's hard to emphasize this enough: show interest in the company by researching it before talking to them. If he knows who's going to be doing the interview, research them as well. I once was trying to get a job that was going to be a stretch. One thing I did was create a binder of information about the company (it was privately held so there wasn't that much) that I brought with me to the interview. My father joking suggested I label it "Company Research #6" to make it look like I had a lot of info.
If your son feels he's having to learn all this, then I encourage him to take advantage of all the service that the placement office offers. Also to find mentors in his professors. If he's still interested in Wall Street, then one way is to take finance or quant classes; then go to office hours and askg questions about the subject *and* about the jobs one can get with that subject; then ask if the prof might be willing to help him get interviews.
Not necessarily job interviews, either. Does he know about informational interviews? They're not for jobs, they're for learning about the company, or the field, or the area. They're easier to get because the student is asking for information only, and who doesn't like being asked for their opinion? Placement offices and profs can help him make the connection to ask for the informational interview, but don't discount the possibilities of cold-calling (well, cold-writing, I guess). Many companies like go-getters who make the effort and put in the work, even if they don't come from the "right" background.
Placement offices can often help find fellow grads who are in the field or at that company, whom your can ask for informational interviews.
That's probably enough for now.
@WilliamB,
Thanks, William! Yes, he got his job by putting on his Brooks Brothers suit and knocking on doors on Wall Street!
And I've been teaching him things such as doing research on the companies that interest him. How to craft an email and a resume, and so on. He probably should have made better use of his university (Baruch) career help, but, well, the pandemic meant everything was virtual and online and he was home with me, and so on. I did suggest an internship last summer (he graduated in May this year) but all the offices were closed, so. He'll get there. He is smart, motivated, handsome, personable and funny.
@Rose, He probably still can make use of his university career help. Most of them help grads of all ages and grad dates.
Nice to meet you WilliamB! I appreciate your advice on negotiation. I also appreciate your thoughtful comments to so many posts!
I enjoyed reading this post.
I really appreciate your understanding of the privilege your parents afforded you by their values of education and work ethics and behavior. I have so many colleagues and friends who didn’t receive this and I, too, am so grateful for it.
Thanks for sharing, WilliamB! I enjoyed your post as much as I enjoy your comments to Kristen's posts and others' comments. I, too, fly under the radar - especially on the Internet - and joke that I'm in the witness protection program.
William B I always enjoy your contribution to the comment section. In a world of woman its good to get a male point of view.
@Linda, So about that... one of the things I keep to myself is my gender. I've never revealed what it is; WilliamB is a family name (with the B name spelled out) for men and women both (middle names are so flexible). I agree with you about the benefits of many points of view, though.
Thanks for sharing, WilliamB! I loved this quote: "Even when I was broke, I wasn’t poor. I may not have had available cash but I always had an education, the training to be a good employee, and a family to fall back on (whether I wanted them or not sometimes ;-> )." Excellent point about valuable resources.
Hello, WilliamB!
This glimpse into your life was a thoroughly enjoyable read. Phrases and ideas, too many to choose just one, are food for thought.
Ok, I will, anyway: it had never occurred to me why climbing to a top spot in my career was such a battle when it seemed far more effortless for others. Their entire upbringing had prepared them. Many thanks for that insight.
So glad you responded to Kristen's questionnaire in this fun series. I’ve always looked for and enjoyed your comments in this great blog.
@Erika JS, I'm glad I could help a little, and congratulations on your achievements! We should be judged, not by where we are, but by how far we've gotten from where we started.
Hi, WilliamB! As a traveler, do you have any advice on "enlarging the pie" with airlines? We had some early 2020 plane tickets cancelled with Qantas, and they only offered us the option of airline credit good until the end of 2021, which we haven't been able to use (because we're American).
@Katie, You're at the "get a larger piece of the pie" stage. You need to know what the applicable rules are then insist on them. Was this a flight involving a US stop? If so, US laws apply. I seem to remember that airlines are required to issue refunds but have resorted to all sorts of tricks and stubbornness to avoid it. (I almost sympathize with their desire to conserve cash till I remember their billions of dollars in stock buy-backs instead of keeping cash for the bad times.)
If necessary, be publicly noisy about it: in the US, that would include taking your problem to social media, to local news stations that have "support the consumer" segments, getting the regulator involved.
Insisting will likely mean repeating yourself. "No, that offer is not acceptable. Since Quantas cancelled the flight, it owes me these things." Repeat as often as necessary. As part of your arguments, point out that because of the pandemic, you couldn't take advantage of the flight credits even if you wanted to - which you don't.
Hi, WilliamB, I was hoping you would consent to be a "meet the reader" interviewee.
I always enjoy your comments, especially when you talk about things like paying more for happy meat, because I am right with you on that. Your insight on negotiation is so true -- my husband used to be quite good at it, and taught me to do it a little even.
Your solution to the hotel dilemma was brilliant!
Hi, William. Like all the other commenters, I'm very glad to meet you and always appreciate your comments. I particularly value your remarks on negotiation (since that's something I need to get better at).
And thanks also for demonstrating that it's possible to do a "Meet a Reader" post without submitting photographs (I am both camera-shy and photography-impaired). Maybe now someday...
Yes, yes! I'd love to feature you and you totally do not have to share photos. 🙂
@A. Marie, Go for it! I've been bowled over by the positive and supportive responses that everyone gets.
WilliamB Great post. Thank you. I love the hotel story. As always great photos Kristen!!!! When I was single I had take out chinese from the corner restaurant. Now that I am married with children the kitchen is my frenemy. But my family is happy with my meals and that makes me happy.
I definitely feel you on the food cooking burn out. I literally just cut a melon and don’t want to do anything else!! I’ve wasted so much stuff lately because I have good intentions then just no motivation to fulfill them. Luckily we have chickens so they end up with a lot of it so it’s not TRULY waste.
@Barrie Desrochers, I did that more than I like to admit this summer, too. I felt a little like I was reenacting Kristen's early food waste posts. I couldn't even put the waste in the compost pile as the rats discovered my neighborhood this summer.
Good to meet you!
So glad you responded to an interview! I’m intrigued by the “how to deal with the working world” comment. I got a bit of understanding by comments herein by Rose and Bee, but could you expand on that with an example or two? It’s apparently way more than being a good worker and having the right experience. Is it basically making the right connections and schmoozing people?
@Shirley, I was thinking in different terms. How to speak - what to say, how to say it. For example, blue collar workers tend to be direct with each other, often the goal is to make sure management doesn't get involved, and routinely avoid dealing with management. White collar workers tend to be indirect and often work with their bosses to get stuff done, ask advice, etc. A blue collar worker might say "Your work sucks, you need to it this way instead"' a white collar worker (not the supervisor) might say "There's room for improvement" and then ask their mutual boss to give some suggestions.
Another example is how to dress: what to wear, how to keep it in good condition, the importance of good shoes.
A third example is good work habits: the importance of showing up on time every day. Doing personal stuff only on personal time and which personal things shouldn't be done at work at all. Things like that.
I can totally agree with the comment about a financial gift!! If you gave me a $100 bill for my birthday and told me to spend it, I guarantee it will be in my wallet for months before I spend it on anything or anyone. A gift certificate? A different story altogether. I would have so much fun planning it and stretching it with sales, discounts and rebates.
Negotiating is a way of life for us too. It doesn't cost a dime and helps so much. Also, we pay cash for almost everything and it often costs less. We have been using the same mechanic for our paid for cars and I would guess we've saved over $1000 in the last few years alone.
@Jennifer, That's a great example. Discount for cash.
How fun that WilliamB participated! I always enjoy reading his comments! I was hoping for a picture of him though ~ I'll just have to continue picture him looking like Sean Connery. 🙂
The negotiation technique can work wonders! Negotiating (or simply just asking for a discount on a big job) can save hundreds ~ with just a simple question and a smile. Recently, our residential sewer line had to be replaced. It was so expensive so I looked online and found that their website displayed a $100 coupon. I called them and asked if they had any other discounts available and the manager instantly offered me $300 off. I was so thankful I took a chance and asked. I knew I could use the $100 coupon, but I was really hoping for a little extra love, ya know?
Thank you for participating, WilliamB!
@Dawn, You may remember that my motto is "It never hurts to ask." I once got two discounts applied because I figured "What the hell" and asked if both applied.
Really enjoyed reading your thoughtful and honest introduction and your suggestions for negotiating. Your writing is so clear and enjoyable and I am glad to "meet" you!
Thank you WilliamB!
It is really nice to know a little more about you. I admit I always enjoy the thoughtful comments you post.
Vicky M
Thank you for the interview, WilliamB. I enjoyed reading it.
Thanks, everyone, for your warm welcome and kind comments. Thank you, too, Kristen, for the photos. I love the roof pix!
Responses to two of my comments have been strongest: negotiation and professional attitude.
First, negotiation. I learned through a variety of means. My father is a past master at it, superb at both enlarging the pie and getting a larger slice of it. I once saw him beat a Syrian rug merchant at his own game, in his own shop in Damascus, and I'm still not quite sure how he did it. After negotiating a price for some rugs, my mother added one more to the pile. By the time my father was done negotiating for the newly enlarged pile, he'd gotten the additional rug for free.
I also had the opportunity to take a negotiating class in school. It taught me a lot about enlarging the pie, how to recognize when someone's approaching his "no more" spot, the advantage of being able to walk away (look up "BATNA"), the importance of understanding the other party's interests and preferences. Northwestern and Harvard, among others, have schools for it: https://sps.northwestern.edu/professional-development/negotiation/ and https://www.pon.harvard.edu/. I also recommend the book "Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In," by Roger Fisher and William Ury.
The other strong response was about learning about professionalism. Even with my background I had some problems - I think most everyone does. The biggest problem I see is entitlement: the sense that someone should get the good things and not have to do the unpleasant ones. It doesn't have to be personal or even accurate, the perception matters. I had trouble getting a job in Asian business because of the perception among Asian companies that Americans thought there was work that was beneath them. The usual example was that Americans wouldn't help clean the office. Heidi Louise's example of picking up a broom is a fantastic one.
Another big, common problem is thinking you know more than you do, and therefore being closed to input. Look up the Dunning-Kruger Effect if you're not already familiar with it. Related to both this and entitlement is not being able to put up with the unpleasant stuff at work (menial work, dull work, etc.) and not being willing to believe something is necessary even if you don't understand it, or no one has the time or interest to tell you why, or even if it's actually not necessary but that's how the company does things. I've worked a lot with gifted kids and one of the their biggest hazards is not being willing to do what they're told, whether or not they wanted to, whether or not it made sense, even if it seemed stupid.
In the professional world, one thing to be aware of is that often you're hired for your hard skills (such as programming) but promoted for your soft skills (such as leadership, or ability to network, or communication skills). It helps to do extra work but sometimes you have to be careful what work - you don't want perception to lower your standing. Don't frequently volunteer to do work stereotypically associated with your characteristics and that lowers one's status. For example, female professional employees shouldn't always volunteer to bring the coffee to meetings.
A more subtle thing to be aware of is that if you're of uncertain or middle status (work standing, knowledge set, etc), doing or saying something that minimizes you will decrease your status. However, if you're clearly of known high standing, then the minimization often has the opposite effect. For example, if a mid-level employee cleans the break room, that lowers the perception of him; if the boss does it, that shows that she's willing to get in the trenches with the rest of us.
Well, this is a lot longer than my original post. Thanks for listening, all, I hope this helps.
@WilliamB, both/all of your posts here, and on the regular Frugal Girl blog are interesting and helpful! I have a question: what other blogs do you read, both frugality-related, and other stuff?
This is a delight! I love seeing William B in the comments here and it's a delight to learn more about this intensely private person.
WilliamB, it has been a pleasure getting to know you better...
And Kristen, I went right over to the library to put holds on two of the books in that pile.