Meet a Reader | Laura Vanderkam
I'm sure that a lot of you are already familiar with Laura! She's an author and podcaster, and her writing has appeared in places like the New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal.
I always feel quite honored that Laura likes reading my blog, since she is an actual published author (she's written multiple books!), and I was delighted when she wanted to participate in the Meet a Reader series.
Like CeCe the psychologist, Laura comes from a high-earning household, but she's still got frugality in her bones. 😉
1. Tell us a little about yourself
Hi Frugal Girl readers! I’m Laura.
I live outside Philadelphia with my husband and five kids. I write and speak about time management, mostly. I host the every-weekday-morning Before Breakfast podcast and co-host the Best of Both Worlds podcast with my friend Sarah Hart-Unger.
I also like to run and play the piano, and I sing in my church choir.
I blog a few times a week at LauraVanderkam.com about my adventures managing life.
2. How long have you been reading The Frugal Girl?
While I write about time management now, I made a brief foray into personal finance about a decade ago when I wrote a book called All the Money in the World.
I began reading The Frugal Girl in an effort to understand the personal finance space. She was definitely one of the most cheerful and normal voices I found, which is why she is one of the few voices I kept reading.
I’ve loved waking up to her blog posts almost every weekday for the past ten years.
3. How did you get interested in saving money?
Like a lot of FG readers, I seem to have a frugal gene. According to extended family lore, when I was little, someone asked me what “expensive” means. I said, “It costs a lot of money.” They asked me what “cheap” means. I said, “We can buy it!”
I know my parents had to be careful with money for many years, as did their parents before them, though they were all just thrifty too. I never knew that normal Whitman’s Sampler boxes contained chocolate because we kept my crayons in an old one.
I didn’t know that people colored on plain white sheets of paper; I always colored on scrap paper from my dad’s work. To this day I write my grocery lists on old envelopes — that’s what my mom did because you can re-use paper that would have landed in the trash and you can keep your coupons in the envelope! (Not that there are many paper coupons anymore, but that’s a different story.)
My frugality came in handy during my first year after college when I had a year-long internship in Washington DC. I didn’t earn much in my base paycheck, but I was fine living with three roommates (life was always a party!) and taking the bus because I didn’t own a car. I shopped sales at the grocery store and brought my lunch to work. I got books from the library and took advantage of the city’s free museums.
Between my frugality and my freelancing on the side, I was able to build up enough money to finance my move to New York the next year without a job lined up.
All that said, I’d like to note the last sentence there — my freelancing on the side was really the critical part.
While frugality is great, I came to realize that you can only cut so much. The fastest way to wealth is to keep your base expenses relatively low, and then earn a lot and invest the difference.
I was fortunate to marry a man who also feels this way and so that has been our household financial philosophy. We drive our cars for a long time. We spend less on housing than we can theoretically afford. We also have jobs we really love and we keep working to grow our earnings.
4. What's the "why" behind your money-saving efforts?
To me, having money in the bank is freedom. I don’t have to keep a gig I don’t like or associate with people I don’t want to associate with.
Money in the bank also represents security. I have always felt this way. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I didn’t have a financial cushion. I worked during summers in high school and year-round in college so I had some savings when I began my adult life.
It was very important to me to never absolutely need the next paycheck. I know there is privilege in that, but it’s also my natural pessimism. I often think about what can go wrong, and it strikes me that a lot could go wrong in a paycheck-to-paycheck scenario. I aim to live below my means, and then save and invest the difference.
Since my husband and I have both been working, living below our means, and then investing the difference for many years now, we live a comfortable life, which I am incredibly grateful for.
I like not needing to fret over little things, like paying the fee when one of my kids lost the charging cord for their school-issued laptop. I mean yes, it annoys me, because I find spending money almost physically painful, but at least it doesn’t need to be a big deal!
5. What's your best frugal win?
On a dollar basis, it was probably moving from New York City to suburban Pennsylvania in 2011. There are a great many things to love about New York City, but it is not a low-cost place to raise a family.
We chose a really good school district, so we’ve been able to send our kids to the local public schools. There are lots of benefits to that — not just avoiding tuition, but not having to fill out applications, plus we can use the school buses! With five kids, all that adds up.
6. What's a dumb money mistake you've made?
Because I am naturally frugal, my tendency is to undervalue my time (probably a lot to unpack there about why I wound up writing about time management.…). I recently needed a signed camp form from the pediatrician’s office and they charged $20 for a quick turnaround and $10 for a 5-7 business day turnaround.
I immediately thought, well, I can wait, and I’ll just try to run back here right after we get back from vacation and before his camp and…then I realized that was a lot of logistics for $10.
I am also guilty of chronically underinvesting in my business.
As one example of many: My current laptop no longer supports updates for some of the software I use frequently, and when I mentioned that to my husband, he was like, “uh, doesn’t this mean that’s the end of the line? Aren’t you going to go buy a new one?” I think he meant that day. That was several months ago now and I only just finally bought a laptop this week!
7. What's one thing you splurge on?
We spend a lot on childcare, but I don’t consider that a “splurge.” It is an investment in our earning capacity and marital happiness.
What I would call a splurge: we’ve started taking really nice trips as a family.
To be sure, we often use my husband’s frequent flyer miles and hotel points, so I guess we’re still being frugal in that way! But I want my kids to see a lot of the world. I took our oldest three kids to Paris over spring break this year. We recently got back from a trip to St. John in the US Virgin Islands.
While traveling, I tend to feel a little more relaxed about spending, or at least I’m a little more aware of the value of time. When we went to Paris Disneyland, for instance, they had a system where you could buy a pass to skip the line for some rides.
We’re talking nine euros (about equivalent to $9 right now) to skip an hour-long wait, so 36 euros for the four of us.
Is not standing in line in the rain for an hour of my vacation worth 36 euros? Yes, yes it is. My kids were thrilled that I was willing to pay to skip the line because it was so out of character for me. I’m hoping I can get them to keep thinking that spending 36 euros is a reason to celebrate.
8. What frugal tips have you tried and abandoned?
I used to really try to shop sales, but then I realized I was often buying things just because they were on sale. Something might be 80 percent off, but if you don’t need it (or really want it), you’re not saving money. I found I was accumulating lots of cheap clothes in my closet.
Now I try to ask if I would pay full price for something. If I would, great! Then a discount is saving me money. If not, it isn’t.
I also no longer meal plan. We have theme nights (breakfast for dinner on Wednesdays, make-your-own-pizza on Fridays), we’ve experimented with various meal kits or pre-made meals from Costco, and then we usually do some grilled protein on the weekend plus fruits and veggies. Plus a lot of leftovers.
It’s fine. Nobody has starved.
9. What is something you wish more people knew?
Keeping your base expenses low is really the big win when it comes to frugality.
I know that a lot of frugal literature tends to cover small savings, like you get with buying generic cereal, or by line-drying clothes, and those are all fine, but you’re not going to become wealthy by line-drying your clothes.
If you spend 20 percent of your household income on housing and transportation vs. 40 percent, you will be able to save and invest a lot more — even if you buy name-brand cereal every week.
Obviously, you want to live somewhere safe and drive something reliable, so it may not be possible to get this percentage very low, but any frugal victories in these categories will pay off again and again for years.
I’m also on a personal mission to help women realize that they might be able to make a lot of money. I am always surprised when frugality literature doesn’t question the decision to be a one-income family.
Yes, we can be good home economists, managing expenses, and I know that traditional jobs can be challenging with little kids, but there are lots of ways to work.
Figure out what you do well, build up your skills, market yourself to people who will pay top dollar, build up a good reputation, and you can have a great and flexible life.
I’d note that it’s also important to have earning capacity if you need it someday! No one knows what life will bring.
(Kristen popping in here: Ahahahahaha, yes. I am a serious case in point.)
10. Which is your favorite type of post at the Frugal Girl and why?
I was obsessed with the first Boxcar Children book growing up. I loved how they outfitted their boxcar with finds that they’d foraged and repurposed.
So now that Kristen is outfitting her new home with items from the abandoned house and her neighborhood Buy Nothing group, I’m as excited as I was when I read about those children’s adventures. She’s even foraging for berries too! It really can’t get any more perfect.
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Laura, I loved the Boxcar Children too, especially that very first book when they did all the boxcar outfitting. So maybe I am living out my own childhood dreams in a way. 😉
And I like your point about helping women think about making money. Frugality has helped me keep more of the money I earn, but frugality alone would not have been sufficient to keep me afloat, or to give me my current independence. A combo of making money + keeping a lot of that money is what helps you make real progress!
Readers, the floor is yours.
P.S. Laura has a new book coming out in October, titled Tranquility by Tuesday. You can read more about it here.
Hello Laura, I enjoyed reading your post. I have always thought that keeping my everyday expenses low has helped us the most. I’m always careful about adding subscriptions to our household. These small, sometimes forgotten amounts really add up. We pay yearly for what we can, that way if, and when we have a short month we know we can get through it. This worked for us when a life changing event happened. The first thought was not about money.
I loved the Box Car Children, too, for the same reason. I have fond memories of my second-grade teacher reading a chapter to us every day after recess. I never thought about the correlation between Kristen outfitting her new house and the book, but it's true and I am enjoying how resource Kristen is being.
We have always lived below our means with a smaller house than we theoretically could afford, and now as we're entering retirement we have the funds we need. A good place to be.
@Live and Learn-Toss and Turn, I too love the book The Box Car Children. My fourth grade teacher would read one chapter right before school let out. This was a looong time ago. I do not remember much about elementary school but I sure remember that. When I had my children I went to the library and asked if they knew of the book she said there is a whole series.
Also my favorite post of Kristen's was the post about saving treasures from the abandoned house, the one about the paper weights. Now I am wondering about the correlation of this.
Thank you Laura for your post. There is a lot of good information there.
I love the first book of the Boxcar Children so much for the very same reason! I think Kristen should poll to see what percentage of her readers feel the same way! I’d be willing to bet the findings would be significant. Ha.
@Sheryl, Another Boxcar Children fan here! Kristen might have to organize a reread!
@Ronni, it would be so much fun to all reread the book together! My kids were just not as into it. They don’t know what they are missing…
It’s wonderful to meet you. I agree that money in the bank brings feelings of peace and a sense of security. A quiet mind certainly makes it easier to concentrate on things that really matter. I can’t wait to read your blog.
@Bee, I also agree about money in the bank. I always think when told that this is not a good option for funds. For me it gives me peace of mind and access to those funds in a timely manner. Along those same lines I use cash, which has come in handy when card machines are not working. Only a few places won't take cash and then I either don't shop there or use my credit card. This has worked well for me.
@cc, I also use cash, I personally am trying to keep the practice alive. I like it for so many reasons 1) I like to SEE the money actually going out. If I use a card it is too easy to think it is free and add on purchases. 2) If there is no rewards program they can not track you and I love not being tracked.
I get a sick feeling in my stomach when I hear they want to go to digital currency.
Also totally off topic but every time I misspell a word it is always the vowel.
@Bee, I agree. We have some investments but we keep quite a bit in the bank because I feel better no matter what the experts say about how little interest you make. I felt the same way about paying off our mortgage--the peace of mind was worth it, no matter what the experts say.
@Bee, Saving and investing are not the same things. Saving is for money you can't lose. Investing is for money you might lose. Banks are a solid place to save, and people have different comfort levels about how much they want to keep there.
Hi Laura! I laughed at your kids' excitement about those 36 euros. One of my most-repeated mantras for parenting is that low expectations are key. If they don't expect much (materially, that is), then the small things will make them so happy. My children's genuine excitement about a visit to Cold Stone Creamery when we were on vacation is a case in point. They spent the entire time exclaiming about how cool it was, and how fun, and how delicious. And they thanked me again and again.
Laura, I really enjoyed your interview and my first thought was that it should be given out to high school kids. It's basic and life changing and certainly not taught widespread in schools.
Also, thanks for mentioning women needing to think about an income. I am 53, was always a SAHM while my dh worked a 6 figure job. We were comfortable for years and then he had a stroke 5 years ago. He was approved for disability, but it's nowhere near his previous income. I can't work a 9 - 5 job as he is a fall risk, so it's been rather difficult to make ends meet, although I do a few delivery gigs like Instacart and Spark, with him in the car. 😉 Let me be a cautionary tale for any mama - find something you love or are good at and work on making money from it. You NEVER know what life holds.
@Jennifer, Good luck in your new careers--caregiver and career seeker. Sometimes the surprises life holds are difficult to handle; you seem to be rising to the challenge. Perseverance will show you the way.
Love meeting you Laura! But now I want to read that book "Laura's Little Book of Life Hacks" and it is not on Amazon. I love to read these kinds of books. Know anywhere I can find it? I recently moved and I have not signed up for a library card yet -- altho I don't think this library is big enough to have all kinds of books!
@Maureen, I found it on her blog. She offers it free if you sign up for emails. Here is the link: https://lauravanderkam.com/life-hacks/
@Cheryl, THANKS!!!!!
@Cheryl, Thanks so much. I just downloaded it.
It's nice that your success and wealth and privilege has brought you the freedom to avoid lines and speed up signing camp forms, but I'm sad to read you also use it so you don't have to "associate with people I don’t want to associate with." (I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but that comment really pushed my buttons.)
@Bobi, I took that to mean that Laura wouldn't, for example, have to stay at a job with unethical people. I had a summer job at a place where crude jokes and sexual comments were common and I was glad I hadn't accepted a full-time job there just out of school. It would have been hard to leave without much of a job history in that case.
@Bobi, I meant not having to stay in a situation that was unethical, or working with people who were bullying - that sort of thing. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
@Bobi, I worked 35 years at a job in a great company but my boss was nasty and cruel. So I related very well to her statement.
@Bobi, or hard work. Not everything is privilege.
Hi Laura,
I really enjoyed your thoughts, I am a FT working mum (at a UK University which I think is easier than in the US because of our maternity and parental leave entitlement). But it’s a really hard slough keeping all the balls in the air and I do sometimes doubt my choice to keep up my very demanding career.
I am super motivated to work (and be frugal) as my SAH grandmother was unexpectedly widowed in her late 40’s (3 teens all at home). My mum and her siblings had a very hard time (not only losing their father but also their family home and many possessions). Life can be very unexpectedly awful sometimes and it’s nice to be prepared and have some resilience in your plans.
What a treat! My two favorite internet women on one page!
“Keeping your base expenses low is really the big win when it comes to frugality.”
So true. Big rocks first.
I love what Laura says here about moms earning money. My life is also proof that economic dependence is “the feminine mistake”.
Loved getting a little glimpse into your life, Laura! Thanks for sharing. We have a similar philosophy here, and it's helped us retain a lot more flexibility than many of our peers in the VHCOL bay area.
Laura, this is SO great! I've read all of your books and am looking forward to your new one. I totally agree with your approach to keeping base expenses low. I also live below my means house-wise, and both of our cars are 10 years old. And a big YES to women having economic independence!
Okay, I never read The Boxcar Children! Where was I? It must have not been in our small town's library, because I read about everything in their children's section.
It's nice to meet you Laura! I agree with keeping your basic expenses low and living within (under) your means. I can make a huge salary, but if I spend it all - and we almost all know people who have done that or are doing that - that big salary isn't going to help me one bit.
Thanks for agreeing to meet!
I really liked your book “168 Hours: You have more time than you think,” so it was such a nice surprise to see you here! I particularly like your argument about “core competencies” - it has helped me think through worthwhile expenses, both in terms of time and money. (I felt like your book helped me realize that as a full time working mom with a six year old, elaborate dinners every night probably aren’t the best use of my time right now.) It’s nice to see you here!
FYI, The Box-Car Children is available as a free e-book download from Project Gutenberg.
https://gutenberg.org/ebooks/42796
@Jenzer, thanks!
@Jenzer, I just got it from my library through the Libby app
Thanks for sharing so much of your life! My only real quibble (if you want to call it that) is trying to spend only 20% of your income for housing and transportation. Totally impossible to achieve (without a huge safety cushion), especially in this age of escalating housing, vehicle and fuel costs. I was a stay-at-home wife and mom while we lived overseas for many years, and then BOOM a surprise divorce. Now I am collecting social security and a small pension -- last winter I had to buy a "new" used car before I had saved quite enough, and I was absolutely staggered by what has happened to the market for used cars. My fixed income hasn't kept pace with those costs!
@Jean,
I know several women who were SAHMs, and had a very difficult time finding employment once their kids were old enough to not need child care. One friend in particular found a job at a state university reasonably close to her home once her kids were old enough, after being told her skills acquired in college (20+ years ago at the time - she didn't work for several years before having kids) were not sufficient. She is now going through a surprise divorce - fortunately, their house is paid for, her current job is full time and pays more than that first back-to-work job (still at the same university), plus her kids get half-off tuition at the university where she works. She is now re-examining her retirement plans, etc. You are so right - life can throw curve balls with no warning.
I've never read The Boxcar children! I went from picture books, basically, to adult books (well, I mean Jane Eyre, Pride & Prejudice, stuff like that). So I've also never read any Laura Ingalls Wilder.
Time management is a great thing to write about, Laura. I've heard of you before and now I definitely need to check out your books. I am fairly bad at it. I mean, I know, I think, the principles, but I never seem to follow them in daily life. Maybe it's self discipline I need more of....
Also, I like that you emphasize women's working. You really really REALLY never know what's coming. Everyone including me thought we'd be the last couple to get divorced, sigh. Is it that women don't have enough self-esteem to try to compete in the job market? Or we don't invest enough in ourselves? Or we don't want to work? (Let's face it, a lot of people, men and women alike, don't want to work; it's just that it's easier for women to avoid a job.) Or trad women's jobs don't pay enough? or all of the above and now I'm making myself depressed? Ha.
also I'm glad to hear you're taking nice vacations with your children. I took mine to Europe numerous times and also to (gag) Disney often, and those are some of the best memories I have. Travel is so good for kids.
My sister married a "frugal" man (read: actually just cheap) and 12 years after buying a house, she still has a kitchen floor with the vinyl worn off so you see the backing, and her daughter is 13 and they've never been on a family vacation. You have to enjoy life and make happy memories, too.
@Rose, I am always trying to make sure I stay on the frugal side of the frugal vs. cheap line…Family vacations are a definite yes. I mean, you could save more and then leave the kids extra money which they would then use to travel…so why not get to go with them? 🙂
@Rose,
Agreed about travel and vacations....growing up, my family almost never went on vacation, for a variety of reasons. My family (husband, son and myself) always take at least one vacation a year (which we save for), even if it's within the same state where we live. Not super luxury vacations, to be sure, but we're making memories with our son, plus seeing and experiencing new places. We have so far avoided going to Disney (I feel the same way as you do, though I have fond memories of going to Disneyland as a kid. My mom worked there for a time in the late 60's/early 70's).
I wonder if women feel pressure to stay home and take care of the kids and the household? More so than men? I don't know. I had a SAHM neighbor tell me once that she "chose to stay home and *take care of her family*" instead of working when they were little. As a working mom, I didn't really appreciate that comment, because not every parent has the option of being a SAHP. There are also a lot of statistics that women typically make less than men do, at the same jobs. I'm sure it's a multi-faceted issue.
@Liz B., Mostly our Disney trips revolved about work meetings. The company paid for our hotel rooms and airfare and we paid for the kids.
Re pressure to do this that and every other thing, I can't really related, to be honest. I've always been independent and contrary and done exactly how I pleased. I'm not a people pleaser so if there was pressure to do anything, I never paid attention to it. Never wanted to stay home full time, ever, it bored me, and I like having a career. Fortunately, my mother did love staying home, so I bought a house near my parents' and paid Mom competitive wages to watch my kids. It worked out great. My mom had a blast with my kids and my parents finally had extra money.
@Liz B.,
Typically women do more unpaid work in and around the house, whether they do or do not hold an outdoor job as well.
I have held paid jobs during our plus 30 year marriage and during two spells of unemployment for my husband, one shorter and one much longer when he was nearing 60, I was grateful that we did not need to worry too much.
My husband and sons do some chores in the house now (I am nearly sixty) but I have had to lower my standards of housekeeping somewhat when they did so 🙂 However it is a good lesson in any situation, to not let perfect be the enemy of good.
@J NL,
Yes! My mom worked full time throughout my childhood, and did all of the housework, cooking and cleaning. Once my sisters and I were old enough, we helped, sometimes grudgingly, lol, and had assigned chores to do as well. My hubby also went through a spell of unemployment, but didn't help much during that time.....he does help now, and his standards are not the same as mine, but I thank him for helping.
Thank you for sharing Laura, it’s so wonderful when two of my favourite bloggers unite! Your comment about women’s earnings reminded me of something a neighbour told me when I was preparing to go back to work after mat leave. I love my career as a librarian and me working outside the home was the right decision for me and our family, but I was struggling with having my child in day care. She reminded me that my education and experience were valuable, and a worthy investment to keep current, particularly as I find the work fulfilling and especially if I hit a financial bump in future (which did indeed come to pass).
Hi Laura! You're so right about base expenses. I tell anyone who will listen "buy the cheapest house you can afford" and I don't think it sinks in too often. People fall into the "but I'll make more money someday!" and "this payment will be nothing in ten years!" Um, not exactly. Also, when I married my husband, I asked "What is our family budget?" and he said "Spend as little as possible." And I've fallen away from that some, but it makes so much sense...
I really enjoy these Meet the Reader posts. I have read many of Laura’s books and have learned so much from her regarding time management. Was thrilled to see her on your blog. It’s great to see someone as successful as she is practicing frugal living. What a great combination…managing money AND time. I do think when people are disciplined in one area it tends to overflow in other parts of our life. I have wanted to comment many times but this is my first. Thanks, Kristen, for this interview with someone I admire, and for your blog. I look forward to it every day.
@Melissa, thank you so much! Wow! I appreciate your reading my books - that means a lot to me.
My mother and her four sisters had very different personal situations and incomes, and it has made me aware even while I was young that women should be able to pull the plow. One sister a spinster, another divorced, a third widowed at a very young age, the other two in long happy marriages but one of them with a husband who was unable to work a full job due to medical constraints. All sisters came from a time and background where girls did not get much of an education and did menial jobs in other people's households until they were married. Only three of the sisters managed to get any education beyond primary school, although they were all smart.
You can imagine I was encouraged to get an education and "better myself" in subsequent jobs. Although in all honesty both my mother and all her sisters would consider household chores still a woman's primary responsibility and had high standard not reasonably compatible with a corporate job.
Love the advice on women making money!!! So key! Always shocked on the risk to not!
laura so nice to meet you. thanks for sharing. we live in a nyc stabilized apt with gas and electriic included. we don't have a car. hubby commuted many years by train to philly. we looked into moving several times but the apts were small and much more than we pay in nyc. hubby moved into my apt and we have two kids and our cockapoo puppy in 750 sq ft. trader joe's and target are one block away.
i started investing with a sharbuilder acccount when i got my first job and an inheritance from my mother. my kids have been to disney world twice. we are hoping to go to universal someday. they love to travel. i hope our library has your books. i look forward to reading all of them and i have signed up for your blog. thanks again.
i absolutely love theme night dinners. i hate meal planning. it just is not my thing. thank you for that tip too.
@Anita Isaac, I am sure NYC can be affordable - if you have a rent stabilized apartment that is key! Ours most definitely was not.
Theme nights are the best. Everyone is happy and no one has to ask what is for dinner.
My father did his daughters a great favor by constantly reinforcing the idea that you need to work in order to be able to support yourself because you never know what will happen, and that getting a skill or an education would result in a higher paying job. His world view was formed by having everything blow up when he got caught in Germany at the start of the Nazi era but he also brought that down to a relationship level. When he saw an article about some terrible thing a man did to his wife or family, he would make the girls sit and listen to him read it and then he would give a short lecture on never letting yourself become dependent on someone else. It never made sense to have this lecture after hearing about some man who put his wife through a woodchipper (one of the actual articles he read us) so I once asked him what could money would have done for a murdered wife. He said "bad men give off signs if you pay attention" and that you should always have enough money to run away from such a man. I told my husband about this habit early in our time together (he says I told him about how many crappy men there were repeatedly, like I was warning him not to be one). The day we married, my husband gave me 8 gold coins in a velvet bag so that I would never worry about having enough money to run away from him. I wish more women had men like my father, although perhaps the wood chipping article was a bit much.
@Lindsey, this is an amazing story I love it so much! Unfortunately my father was someone I wish my mom had run away from and that has certainly influenced me in my views of women and work. It is absolutely hard trying to juggle my job and my kids sometimes (especially during the pandemic), but I am so grateful I can contribute to my family's finances and very secure knowing I can take care of my kids alone if I ever needed to. The first year of parenthood was hard on my marriage and I felt like I was seeing a side to my husband I hadn't before - it was the knowledge that I was choosing to stay that made a difference and the freedom of knowing that I didn't have to put up with unacceptable behaviors. So thank you Laura for bringing this up!
@Lindsey, OK, the wood chipper is cracking me up (and making me think of Fargo).
@Lindsey, Your Dad definitely had the right idea. My Dad has similar views and taught me the importance of making my own money and not relying on a man for anything. I got my strong work ethic from him and my independent spirit. My parents also encouraged me to buy a house when I was in my 20's, which is the best thing I ever did. I am living in the same house now (at age 51). I don't think I would have made the leap to home ownership at such a young age without their encouragement.
@Lindsey, My father also took opportunities to point out to us how women could do anything. He was a civil engineer and when he would meet an engineer who was a woman, a rarity some decades ago, such as at a national conference, he would always mention that to us.
These messages sink in! Though perhaps not as memorably as the wood-chipper guy.
OH MY WORD about the wood chipping article. I would probably have been traumatized if I heard that as a kid!
My parents always told me that I needed to have some way to earn money, but largely with the idea that I could support myself if my husband died. That's obviously not what's happened, but their advice to always have a way to earn money, even if you are a stay-at-home mom, has paid off for me!
@Kristen, I not only remember the article but I remember that the victim worked as a cabin attendant, that she had told a co-worker if she disappeared that the co-worker needed to tell the police to look at her husband. I also remember that the forensic pathologist pieced together more than 3,000 pieces of her flesh to prove it was her. DNA was not used in crime identification until the late 1980s, so he had to do a reconstruction of her. It was called the Wood Chipper Murder and was actually used as an inspiration for the Coen brothers when they made Fargo. I was an adult by then but when I was home and my father gave one of his "murderous men" recitations, I was required to sit in and this happened during one of those visits. I remember my little sister crying and only later sidling up to me and in a whisper asking what a wood chipper was. I never see a wood chipper that I don't remember the story and say a little prayer that the woman did not suffer and that there is a heaven. I don't really believe prayer works but it is my way of someone remembering that she ever lived. Years ago my husband rented a wood chipper to take care of yard brush and I could not make myself go anyplace near it. I can only imagine how it impacted my little sister!
@Lindsey,
Ah, this touches me!
To me it seems, his gift was the pledge that you would never need them
@Rose,
LOL! I could not remember the name of that movie for the life of me. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing, Laura! Before Breakfast is on my list of favorite podcasts, though I tend to binge them instead of listening to one a day.
Keeping our base expenses low has been huge for us. Our monthly mortgage payment is very, very low and we have no car payment. Both have been key for us over the last 7 years.
I loved the Boxcar Children as a kid and now have the joy of watching my oldest child enjoy them.
Your point about earning potential is interesting for me to ponder. At the moment I have no income, but the time is coming where that will need to change. I know I don't want to go back to 8-5 in the office (though I loved it for the years I did it) but I've been thinking about a couple of part-time options I would enjoy. Thankfully my degree will still be there and I've been involved in a number of volunteer roles to keep some skills from getting too rusty. I don't know what's next but I've got plenty to mull over for the next year!
@Ruth T, Good luck as you figure out your next move! Keeping skills, credentials, and networks current goes a long way toward making it all work. I am sure you will find something amazing.
Laura, you’re the one who introduced me to Kristen’s blog years back. I was also all - in on the outfitting of the boxcar.
@Caroline Rose, oh excellent! So glad I could introduce you to Kristen.
Laura, I also use used envelopes to make my lists and put what coupons and other lists inside. Been doing this probably my whole married life. 🙂
@Ohio Farmwife, I mean, it makes sense, right? 🙂
Thank you for sharing, Laura. I am excited to check out your books! I was obsessed with the Boxcar Children as a kid as well. The first book was my favorite.
Glad to meet you! And thanks for the "big picture" reminder. A lot of people think too small; we all know women especially who confuse saving one cent with investing for a year.
Laura, our choir has the exact same choir robes! Are you a fellow alto? 🙂
I was almost 36 when I got married, so I had to be able to support myself for many years. I love what I do and while I have scaled way down on my work hours since having kids (and helping with elderly parents), I've always felt it was important for me to keep my foot in the door and my professional skills up to par because, as you noted, you never know what's around the corner. It has given me comfort to know that should my husband be unable to work, I have a skill set to fall back on. I am trying to encourage my 16 year old daughter along similar lines. I feel like women who are financially dependent on a man, with no skills to fall back on, are in a much more vulnerable position, and I don't want her to ever feel like she has to stay in a bad relationship to survive. I've always felt like my husband should be reassured by my ability to earn a living--I'm with him because I want to be, not because I need to be. 🙂
Those are similar thoughts to one of your other points--that your ability to earn as well as your ability to save gives you freedom. I have worked on a per diem basis for years while my husband works full time, and wow, the flexibility that gives is amazing! I have needed to be able to be frugal with my household expenses to manage doing that. It has allowed us to take many fun vacations as a family--there's no way we would have been able to coordinate both of our schedules to accommodate that if we were both working full time. It also helped us avoid child care costs (no extended family lived close by when my kids were little, so it was more hassle than it was worth to deal with child care), as one of us could manage to be home with the kids. Of course there are downsides--there always are--but the upsides more than make up for it.
Thanks for sharing with us. Your comments really resonated with me and I suspect that we would be friends IRL if we lived near each other.
@Kris, I am sure we would be friends! I sing second soprano but I probably have an alto voice. I just like singing high notes too!
I've read several of your books! Your new title sounds interesting, I'll have to look for it!
What a charming smile you have, Laura! Does smiling help you warm up your voice for making recordings?
Re: all the comments about women needing future finances, remember that if you are in the U.S., you can get a spousal IRA. Even if you aren't working, money can be put into a retirement account from the working spouse's income. I hadn't heard of them until recently. It isn't just money now that is needed, but money in retirement.
@Heidi Louise, thank you! And yes, good to take advantage of tax-advantages retirement accounts whenever possible!
I can see how time management IS important with five kids!!! And I loved The Boxcar kids too-- your interview brought back a memory of those wonderful books. . .what a great series. . . I also was obsessed with The Borrowers too-- Maybe there was a frugal theme?
@Millicent, I haven’t read the Borrowers - maybe I need to…
Literally my two favorite bloggers! Laura’s work has given me so many insights over the years and it’s great to read her interview here. I really respect how both Kristen and Laura share their experiences and perspectives in respectful, thoughtful ways. I think that leads to a wide and diverse audience who interact positively in the comments. I am grateful to have learned from both of them!
@Kaethe, you are too sweet!
I agree that money in the bank or in investments is very freeing. The best feeling I have is knowing if something were to happen to the car we have the money to get it fixed or get a new one. I drive a 2010 Honda CRV that I bought brand new and only have 63K miles on it as I went through a rough depression an being a recluse.
I was a SAHM and my dh supported me doing that. He also helped so everything wasn't on me. My big dislike was when the kids were in elementary school and moms knew I was at home and always asked me to watch their kids during the summer or school vacations. "You could probably use a bit of money..." I was highly insulted and said if I needed money I would be working. Dh and I were very frugal, much more than the Longaberger baskets and Gymboree parents were. I accepted hand me downs and anything else that was offered. We were lucky because dh (dear husband) had aunts that liked to shop and buy clearance stuff for the kids. I never felt that I had to work. My skills were very limited anyway as I was a clerk typist before I had my son. I stayed home cause we couldn't afford daycare.
Anyway, a frugal life has brought up frugal kids who are grateful that we didn't have to do the whole rush around to day care thing. They both had hearing loss so there were expensive hearing aids that had to be bought. A gift from our church - not asked for - and a contribution from my mother in law helped pay for those. But being frugal really, really helped with the kind of life we wanted to live. I was lucky to go on a couple of business trip with dh and he had a sales meeting at Universal in Florida that me and the kids tagged along to.
It's so nice to be among other frugal people. They GET me. My niece bought an old hunt and gun club and converted it to her home and used lots of found things for it. The shuffle board game became counters. All kinds of good stuff.
@Auntiali, love your story!
I appreciate Laura’s perspective on empowering women to earn incomes — I am the primary breadwinner (with the health insurance benefit) and have been sometimes the sole income-earner in our household, and it’s helped us weather difficult financial times and also have some security while launching new businesses. I think that is often easy to overlook. Really appreciated this post and I love that you have multiple readers who are authors, whether poetry or prose.
I am always inspired by Laura, but I'd push back on her comment on one-income families. It's good to prepare for the unexpected, but it's unfortunate that our society penalizes mothers for caring for their children as if this unpaid labor isn't valuable. Not every woman can or wants to stay home, but for those of us who choose to exit the workforce to be present to our young children, the trade-off of maximizing our earning capacity comes with the recognition of how precious those early years are. It doesn't make you a bad feminist if you don't want to outsource that care. Financial security is necessary, but money is a means to an end and in the happiness equation, meaning is more essential than being a high-earner. Whether you find meaning in your work inside or outside the home (or both!), it doesn't mean that your life is less rich or fulfilling.
@Vanessa,
HUGE AGREE!
I am definitely going to have to read The Boxcar Children! I remember my daughter loving it when she was little, but for some reason I didn't read it myself.
Thanks for sharing! Your "recipe" for becoming financially secure, earning money and investing as much as possible, is a very sensible one, and I'm sure it helps that both you and your husband think the same way.
Nice to meet you! I can’t wait to check out your new book!
Hi Laura, I'm so glad you were featured. I listened to your Ted Talk a few years ago, then couldn't find you. I finally found your blog when Kristen mentioned being on your podcast.
What a great post. My husband and I deal with money in a similar fashion. We had high earnings, drove our cars forever, didn't purchase gadgets or trendy things and saved, saved, saved. Now that we are retired at an early age, we are grateful for this. Also love what you said about women making sure they have an earning capacity. My first husband died suddenly when he was 36, I was 33 and we had three very young children. I didn't know I would have to work but at least I was able to start a strong career due to my education and skills.
Finally, my grandma kept our crayons in a Whitman box too! Made me smile to read that in your post!!
I really agree with your thoughts on frugality. I’ve noticed that resources directed towards women tend to emphasize the small wins- buying generic cereal, line drying clothes, etc. There’s nothing wrong with these things, but even the most dedicated frugal wife cannot clip enough coupons to balance out her husband’s $1000/month truck payment.
Personal finance resources directed towards men tend to emphasize big wins- investment strategies, negotiating larger salaries, etc. I love your encouragement to women to consider making money as well as saving it.
It was lovely to meet you, Laura! Your name sounded very familiar to me, though I'm not sure why. I look forward to reading your books (I have several on hold at my library), reading your blog and listening to your podcast. I am always open to new ideas related to time management!
I am a working mom, more from necessity than choice, though I don't think being a SAHM would have been the right choice for me when my son was younger. I am hopeful that I can scale back my hours, or choose a different part time job, in the next 2-3 years. My current job is soul-sucking due to having a terrible boss. My parents also instilled in my sisters and myself to be self-supporting, which is a good place to be. I know if something unfortunate were to happen, I can support myself and our family if need be (with even more belt-tightening).
Great to meet you and I enjoyed you post! One comment- I would fid a new pediatrician - I live in very high cost of living Boston, and our pediatrician has never, ever charged for signing a camp form (my kids are late teens now)! Goodness, what is the world coming to!