An update on the financially irresponsible parents situation
I emailed the reader who had sent in the plea for feedback about her very hard situation with her parents and their finances because I wondered if she'd like to send in an anonymous response to all of your feedback.
Here's what she sent in as an update:
First of all, we have stuck to our “no.”
I’ve only heard from my parents once since then, via text that seemed to be sent solely for the purpose of causing guilt and eliciting sympathy/help; I did not respond. My sister hasn’t heard from them at all since then. That’s a little different from their normal approach of reaching out to her more than me, but we’re still ignoring it.
My sister generally talks to them on the phone a little more than I do, but hasn’t seen them in over three years. Due to their religious beliefs, they are extremely opposed to same sex marriage. They were very unpleasant when my sister told them about her relationship. At the time, my husband and I made it very clear to them that if they wanted to continue to have a relationship with any of us, they needed to keep their opinions to themselves. My sister and her wife chose not to tell them when they got married. As you can imagine, that complicates things even more. That is something that I am prepared to go full No Contact over. My husband and I decided early on that the four of us are a package deal; if they refuse to accept/acknowledge my S-I-L (or choose to cut off contact with my sister), we’re out of their lives too.
In response to the many comments suggesting therapy, I do see a therapist, and that has been hugely helpful. My health insurance changed at the beginning of the year, and my co-pay tripled, so I reduced the frequency of my visits for a while. We’ve since reworked the budget so that I’m on a more regular schedule, which is definitely helping with this.
One thing my therapist has really helped me with is realizing that there are different kinds of abuse. I’ve spent my entire adult life working in/around the court/criminal justice system, so when I think “abuse,” I tend to leap straight to truly heinous, nearly unspeakable things. My therapist actually read me definitions of abuse, and that has helped. Sitting with the knowledge that there have definitely been types of abuse has helped a lot with letting go of the idea that I owe my parents something for having and raising me.
(Note from Kristen: YES. I used to think abuse was limited to overt behaviors, but I now know that there are much more subtle forms, and those are also very damaging.)
I have also realized that I will be grieving my parents twice. Once (now, while they’re still living), for the fact that while they may have done their best (I’m choosing to believe they did, and honestly, at this point, I’m not sure it even matters), they have never really been the parents that I (or my sister) needed. It will always be a difficult relationship, and not giving them what they want will create more distance.
Sometimes we have to choose the lesser evil, and a more distant relationship with them (not allowing them to drag us down with them) is definitely the lesser evil. And there will be more (and different) grief when they pass away.
In response to the comments about monitoring my credit, I have monitored my credit for years. Readers my age and older may remember how easy it used to be to open a checking account. My parents opened and overdrew checking accounts at multiple banks in my name and my sister’s when we were kids, so we both started adulthood with terrible credit scores and spent years cleaning that up.
We both have credit monitoring through one of our credit cards. We have also placed a hold (I’m not positive that’s the right term) on our credit, so that any new line of credit requires an in-person signature and ID. I also get my own credit report once a year.
As far as the calls from debt collectors where I’ve been listed as a contact, I don’t answer them. I’ve stopped trying to pass on messages to my parents or asking the companies not to call. I just block the number and move on. It would be a pain to change my cell phone number, and I’m not going to let them make me do that. My sister and I both live in a different state now, so it’s fairly easy to screen those calls since they’re from the area code where my parents live.
As for being contacted by the church, my sister and I both left it when we were adults. It can definitely be described as a cult, and the belief system (that the end of the world is coming any day and planning for the future demonstrates a lack of faith) is at least a part of the reason why my parents didn’t save for retirement. I truly do not care what those people think of me, and I doubt they could say anything worse than some of the terrible things my so-called friends told me when I left. And, once again, it’s fairly easy to screen those phone calls since they’re likely to be from the area code where my parents live.
Sometimes physical distance is a huge blessing!
One thing a few people brought up in the comments that I had absolutely not thought about was funeral expenses. I don’t know why that hadn’t occurred to me, and I appreciate the reminder. The four of us now have a plan for what we are willing to do, and we will set aside money for it. I’m grateful that we were able to make the plan now rather than in the moment when emotions are likely to be high.
I have a background as a paralegal, so I have some familiarity (mainly enough to know it isn’t something I want to spend the time and mental energy on!) with the probate system in their state. I’ve spoken with my sister about it, and we’ve agreed to hire an attorney to handle the estate, which will largely involve dealing with debt collectors. Based on some of the comments, we’ve decided that we need to have that in place before it’s needed. Once again, it’s better to make those decisions before emotions are high.
One common theme in the comments was that we’re of an age where we need to be planning our own retirement, feathering our own nest, putting on our own oxygen masks, etc. A few comments brought up that bailing them out was hurting us financially and that possibly allowing them to move in would be very stressful for my sister and S-I-L.
That point has really been driven home, and it feels like we dodged a bullet when they didn’t like our offers. My sister had a pretty big health scare shortly after all of this (fortunately, she is 100% okay now), but she realized how stressful dealing with our parents living there would have been while dealing with that. My husband and I had a large/expensive plumbing emergency at our house two weeks ago, and it would have been much more difficult to handle if we had stretched ourselves so thin by bailing them out again.
It really drove home the point that it’s just not a good idea to let them pull into a situation where something like that becomes potentially devastating.
Calling ourselves estranged or going full No Contact feels a bit extreme to me, but that doesn’t mean constant contact/availability either. Over the years, we’ve seen and talked to them less and less. At this point, my husband and I see them about once every year to year and a half when we visit and take them to dinner.
Other than that, I have very little contact with them. Going forward, it will likely be even less contact since I will be ignoring the calls/texts asking for things.
I have no doubt they will come to us again, desperately asking for money, and I know it will be hard to say no. I think that will always be hard. But I feel better about being able to say no, and not being a terrible person for it.
The comments comparing their behavior to an addict’s were helpful. If they had a substance abuse addiction, there wouldn’t be much guilt in not enabling that. Their addictions are drama, irresponsible behavior, and reckless spending, and they refuse to work on themselves.
I want to thank Kristen and everyone else who took the time to comment and to offer support and advice. Sometimes just hearing from a neutral party that you’re making the right choice is incredibly helpful. Thank you.
And for everyone who is dealing with, or has dealt with, something similar, I’m sorry. I know it really sucks, and it’s hard. Hopefully, some of these comments help you as much as they have helped me.
_________
Anonymous, thank you for sharing your story with us, and thank you for these updates too! I'm glad you and your sister are finding some peace with your decisions, and I'm so glad you have a therapist to help you walk through this very difficult relationship. I'm so impressed that you guys are holding to your boundaries, even though it's hard. I am cheering you on!
I am glad we have been able to provide support and some useful tips. I wish you and your sister and your families a wonderful future. Take care!
It's good to have this update - thanks to the writer for writing it, and to Kristen for reaching out. I'm glad the comments were helpful. I have an estranged relationship with my dad and sister, and it's been incredibly tough. Mine aren't financial reasons but I was nodding along a lot to what the writer was saying about her parents. (My dad broke off contact because he (incorrectly) thought I went behind his back and invited my mother to my civil partnership and not him. A few years later, my partner and I got into an argument over coffee about immigration with my sister's boyfriend (who was saying some pretty far-right things), during which my partner said he was talking bollocks (not ideal, but to be fair, he was!). My sister then decided to ban my partner from ever seeing them or their (about to be born) baby... Funnily enough, I wasn't ok with my partner being excluded so I said if that's what she wanted, I'd exclude myself too. Sigh.) Although I wouldn't wish this heartache on anyone, there is comfort in knowing I'm not the only one! Sending love to her and anyone else in a similar situation.
Thank you for sharing! You and your sister are remarkable people, and it sounds like your spouses are too. So glad you are able to support each other in healthy boundaries and healing. Sending you all continued best wishes.
Thank you Anonymous and Kristen for sharing. This is such an important and very difficult topic. I am sorry you have had to deal with this but happy that you have achieved clarity that will serve you and those you love going forward.
It takes a lot of strength to set appropriate limits like this. Well done.
Dear Anonymous, You Four are the very definition of bravery. You will likely never know how many others you’ve helped by telling your story in Kristen’s blog. Super cheering you on!
I'm back from taking time off for JASNA BFF's visit. But what I want to say today is "Brava/Bravo!" for Anonymous, her husband, her sister, and her SIL. You've all done a ton of hard stuff, and Anonymous has described it here clearly and level-headedly. Admiration and kudos!
I'll be back tomorrow with a "Thankful FFT" about the visit.
Thank you for returning to update us. It's such a sad situation. I commend you for standing unequivocally with your sibling; it's both good and right, and also very loving. I think you're spot on about grieving your parents twice.
Like you, I work in a field where I regularly see a wide range of behaviour that ranges from "not ideal" to "violently abusive" and everything in between. A common refrain is that "people are doing their best with what they have." Often that's true. But sometimes, it's more complicated than that, and people can waste a lot of time fretting over (or litigating) whether or not the behaviour they saw really was the result of someone trying their hardest to be their "best." Sometimes it's more helpful to simply acknowledge that someone did what they did, it was very painful to those around them, and that they did not change even when those around them asked them to. All we can do is move forward with that knowledge and grieve it. I wish you really well.
Meira Bear,
Thank you for that last part in particular (I agree with all that you said, to be clear). When I read the book Toxic Parents, they very clearly mention that saying "my parent(s) did the best they could" is basically giving those parents a pass on their behavior. I had said that to myself for years, and reading this was an eye opener. In my situation, my parents were NOT the parents I or my three sisters needed, and I've come to the opinion that they should not have been parents at all. My DH and I always encourage each other that we are breaking the cycle with the way we are raising our DS. (DH does not need to break any cycles, but he supports me in doing so).
Thank you for sharing--that's so sad and hard, and also so awesome how you and your husband are choosing differently.
Your share couldn't have come at a better time for me. My family life was filled with alcoholism and mental health issues. Those are easy to identify as "chaos." What you are describing is insidious and devastating. My parents were always transperant and responsible in terms of finances. Although my mother is not well off due to years of drinking ( she got sober at 79 and it has been the greatest gift in my life), she has taken the advice Hubby and I have given. She remains self supporting for today at 91. My siblings are variously damaged from my upbringing and we do not mingle as a group. I have individual relationships with each.
If I have one thing to add from my experience is that I can not make any decision based on expectations of future behavior. Chaos by definition is unpredictable. I am triggered by anything my family does. The best I can do is set boundaries and then be willing to suffer the after-burn of discomfort which always comes no matter what I choose to do. Even if it is the right answer for me. You only have one sibling. I must communicate and tell the truth to five who are varying degrees of explosive.
Excellent example: This weekend I was supposed to drive an older sister to my dad to meet a younger brother and sister to clean out Dad's house who is now in a home. Another brother called my sister to get "transparency on estate deals." Three of the four involve have had either physical or legal threats with each other. I have decided to not go this weekend. I will go down the following weekend with myself and hubby to pick up what I need to pick up. Two of the three are now using their passive agressive tones with me because "I am the one with mental health issues." Despite the fact that both of them have chaotic relationships with their children. Let them think what they want. My nuclear family runs on acceptance, peace and loyalty. I have a duty to my husband and boy to remain as healthy as possible.
Mary Ann,
Kudos to you for remaining healthy for your DH and DS. Sounds like you, too, have really gone through the wringer with all this. But you're doing as well as can be expected under such trying circumstances!
We all have two families: the first one comes without our asking, and we get to shape the second one into what we want it to be. You have done remarkably well in life espite your first family and have shaped your second one beautifully. Your comments are always full of truth and wisdom—thank you!
Jana, and the same could be said for your comments! As with most conflicts there are many layers, it’s not just cut and dried and the consideration this commentariat gives to nuance is something I really appreciate! I am reminded so often with the glimpses into people’s lives here that I need to give grace because I know not what people are carrying. Happy for anonymous and Mary Ann that they have found the source of strength for their boundaries in those that truly love them!
Mary Ann,
You are doing a great job, holding those boundaries, letting those passive aggressive comments bounce off, and maintaining a healthy environment for your husband and son/boy. Thank you for sharing your story, and I agree - I always look for your and Jana's comments!
Thank you, Kristen, for this unexpected update. I am sending the four of you big hugs and rounds of cheer.
Sending you a virtual hug!
You have made the best decision for you and your sister's mental health and financial security.
Wow, Anonymous, you are so very strong! Blessings on you and all whom you love.
Thank you so much for this update! I'm so sorry this has been so hard, but so glad that you are finding more clarity and healing through it. It's also so good to hear that you and your sister remain on the same page - your families make a good team. ❤️
My position would probably be "I will not let them starve," but they seem to figure out how to eat.
So good to hear back on this one! FoO are tricky when there are these patterns in play, though it does make me laugh (bitterly!) to think of A/ being hateful about a relationship or a person's sexual orientation but B/ wanting money from the person you have been hateful to. I mean... that's some nerve!
But very good to have a basic idea in place of what you will do re funerals and suchlike. As you say, it will be much, much less stressful than otherwise. Of course you will grieve your folks, there must be some precious memories and things that you share with them, so well done for taking a measured stance on going lower contact than opting for complete estrangement. The lines of communication can be kept open and there may be some stuff you can connect over and laugh about and that will be good for you and for them.
I am again so grateful for my parents.
THIS. IS. INCREDIBLE.
That real parents would act this way??? I don't blame your people for "disowning" these people one bit.
The one thing I would add: that it might be a good idea if they published some sort of financial notice: "We are not responsible for so-and-so's debts." I've heard of doing this to cement things, and keep the bill collectors from contacting you. Don't know if it's done nowadays as much as it used to be, though...
Yesssssss love those boundaries queen!!
Thank you for the update! It gave me something to think about regarding my own situation and I found that very helpful.
I am married with three kids (two in college), and I’ve never successfully had a budget. I drive most of our financial decisions, so prioritized paying off debt (including our mortgage) years ago. We’ve always been fortunate enough to live below our income, so have just never felt I need to track my grocery money. Every time I’ve told myself I was going to build and track expenses, I’ve just made myself miserable and fallen off the budget wagon. This works for us. It sounds like your non-system system is working for you. Why insert more rigidity? Having savings accounts for fun things like the holidays or vacations is a pain-free way to give a little structure without the rigidity of a budget.
Anonymous,
I applaud your courage and am sad you four have had to go through all this mess. My suggestion is to have your parents' church/cult take care of them, including the funeral. If your parents did not plan ahead, then see if the county will bury them in a pauper's grave or cremate them. Or make arrangements to donate their bodies to science. You have done more than your fair share of paying for their expenses. Enough is enough, and you should not feel guilty at all for saying "no more."
Thanks for the update. Difficult choices.
Flowers are wonderful!
Thanks for the update. I am glad you are getting some relief from all that pain and stress. Good luck to you and your sis, s-i-l and your hubby. I am sorry for all that you have been through.
Glad you and your sister are doing well and you're learning more about other forms of abuse. I also agree that you made the right move by saying 'no.' Sometimes helping others is a wonderful thing, but other times it opens the door to problems, especially if those you help choose not to find a way to help themselves moving forward.