WilliamB sent me this as a prompt for a discussion here:
At what level of income or wealth do you think it’s inappropriate to try to save money? For example, if someone is rich and is at a craft fair, do you think it’s inappropriate for the wealthy person to bargain hard on the price?
I’m gonna give a rambly, off-the-cuff answer and then open it up for discussion!
For me personally, a lot of this would depend on whether I’m dealing with a corporation or a small business.
Or a for-profit business vs. a non-profit.
Even if I was quite wealthy, I wouldn’t feel at all bad taking advantage of grocery store sales, buying loss leaders, buying things on clearance, haggling over the price at a car dealership, and so on.
However, I would not feel comfortable haggling at a craft fair or a charity-run thrift store; I think I’d have more of a, “This is some mindful spending in support of a person/cause I can stand behind.” attitude.
I’m sitting here thinking about why I feel this way, and I guess it’s because if I were at a craft fair as a wealthy person, I’d feel fairly certain the person selling their wares had less money than I do.
So that would make it feel rude to bargain down.
But if I’m at a grocery store, I know the grocery corporation has a lot more money than I do! It feels less like I’m hurting them by buying loss leaders and such.
Bargaining aside…
To go off on a little tangent, the other day I was thinking about how at this point in my life, even though I am not independently wealthy, it is true that I do not absolutely have to do all the frugal things I do.
In other words, I could buy lunch at the hospital cafeteria and I’d still be able to pay my rent.
(This is in contrast to the time when I was going through my divorce and paying lawyer bills and trying to set up a new household…at that point, I was skating pretty close to being broke several times!)
Despite my current not-broke situation, I still prefer to live a life of lower consumption.
That’s because it’s a responsible thing to do and it also gives me more ability to be generous to others. If I see a need, I have enough wiggle room to easily help out, and that’s partially due to my low-consumption lifestyle.
So, that’s why I choose to:
- only own two sets of scrubs for work
- buy my Altras on eBay
- continue to get things from my Buy Nothing group
- faithfully pack my meals for school and work
- cook most of my meals at home
- repair/mend things whenever possible
There are lots of ways to save money and lower consumption without being stingy and selfish, and without taking advantage of others, and I think I will continue those sorts of practices no matter how much money I make!
To bring it back around to WilliamB’s question, I look at paying full craft fair prices as sort of a way to be generous. Could I get a similar item cheaper at a store? Probably!
a cell, designed and knitted by Sonia
But at the craft fair, the money is mostly going straight to the maker. So paying the higher price feels like a generous and kind thing to do.
Cindy Brick
Monday 2nd of December 2024
I've done craft fairs before...and you're right. The maker is trying to establish a price that the buyer jumps at. There's not usually a lot of room to bargain.
I don't have a problem bargaining on FB Marketplace, though. And I'm sure some people are selling on there because they HAVE to. If I think the price is more than fair, I'll offer slightly under the seller's price. At that point, it's just a game. But I have paid full price before, too.
Cindy Brick
Monday 2nd of December 2024
P.S. I don't need to be as careful as I did years ago. But I'll still look for the best prices and use discounts and bargaining until I stop breathing. It's a Hollander's natural course! Then you call your children up (it used to be my mom) and brag about your bargains. Then they cry that they're "poor and needy" and need some of the money you saved. Have been doing this for decades!
WilliamB
Monday 2nd of December 2024
Before reading anyone else's comments, I'm going to give my answer.
I assess my answer along two axes: 1) Is the benefit from a finite or infinite pool and 2) How big/corporate/indie is the provider; 3) With a strong dash of not being taken advantage of.
1) How Big is the Benefit Pool? If it's a regularly-offered discount, I'll take it every time. However, if there's only so many to go around, then I'll usually not take it. So I'll take a store's standard discount, but I don't take care-giver support funds from my county because I can manage without it while there are others for whom it makes all the difference.
2) How Big is the Provider? I'll take a Home Depot discount every time, and negotiate for a better deal. An independent artist at a local Christmas Market? Probably not.
3) Am I Being Taken Advantage of? There are purchases for which negotiating is the norm, even in the US. Houses and cars are top of the list, but also others such as major appliances and mattresses. There other circumstances as well, particularly when traveling in the Third World. For example, when I was in Vietnam, locals paid $.50 for a loaf of bread. The seller tried to charge me U.S. $3, I negotiated to $1.50. But when I tried to pay with a $5, she wouldn't give me change. Note: I was able to retrieve my $5 and give her exact change - but she wasn't going to give me change no matter what.
Liz B.
Tuesday 3rd of December 2024
@WilliamB, I really like your thought process.
Kristina
Monday 2nd of December 2024
Great topic. But let's not confuse too many issues. In the third world where I grew up, haggling is still a social thing with an expectation that both parties will be happy in the end with the agreed upon price. No hard feelings. If the seller reaches his or her limit and won't go lower, or the buyer doesn't want to pay the price in discussion, the buyer moves on or the seller ends the conversation. In the marketplace, shoppers who are notoriously stingy, mean, or hard nosed are recognized, and sometimes find themselves unable to shop at certain stalls. The seller knows they are mean, cheap, and rude, and won't deal with them. Ideally, there is a friendly back and forth. The transaction ends with both parties happy.
We cannot always know a shopper's wealth; many people do not display their incomes on their backs (or in their handbags). So a shopper who pushes to haggle may or may not be seeking unfair advantage; it is up to the seller to draw the line, or to negotiate a new price. No seller is required to sell for a price below the cost of making an item, but he or she might want to, so as not to take it home, or for any other reason. I love arts and crafts fairs and they are often fund raisers for good causes, so I assume the prices marked include a donation to the cause. It might be in the form of a booth rental, or some other contribution.
Most of us who participate here are interested in a frugal life, as Kristen does such a good job of discussing and thinking about. Does it mean we are to push every fluid situation to the very bottom to make our dollars sing high C? No. The question posed here sounds to me like what to think of an evidently wealthy shopper who does. Seems rude, and unfair to crafts makers, but the seller is free to disengage. I had a close friend who was a master weaver and textile artist, and I assisted her at a special juried fair one year. It was ignorance that prompted some shoppers to try to reduce her prices. They did not know the difference between fine yarns and cheesy ones, or between excellent weaving and finishing, and poor. The shoppers who did know were happy to pay for outstanding work, and enjoy them for many years. The ones who thought they could do this work at home had another think coming; I hope they did try and discover that it is much harder than they thought.
I recommend the way of my childhood market. If it makes you happy, and you can agree on a price, pay it, and enjoy your purchase. If you cannot agree, look elsewhere, and try not to second guess or make assumptions about either buyer or seller. There is a lot of stuff at crafts fairs that is badly made, so I am not swayed by romantic views of "hand made." If I really like something that will perfectly serve my purpose for it, and I can afford it, I will buy it and be happy, and hope the seller is happy too. End of transaction. I also recommend my friend's strategy for pricing some things that she put many hours into. She used lovely silk and linen yarns to make marvelously colored shawls, scarves, and other items. If she kind of wanted to keep something she would price it very high, which she figured would require the buyer to love it as much as she did. She was pleased with this strategy but made a lot of unexpected money when a happy shopper bought ALL of her favorites! A win-win conclusion, don't you think?
Book Club Elaine
Tuesday 3rd of December 2024
@Kristina, yes, the win-win conclusion was indeed very happy.
Brenda W.
Monday 2nd of December 2024
I love Sonia's knitted cell. Does she have a pattern for it?
Madeline
Monday 2nd of December 2024
I’m retired and spent a lifetime of being frugal as we went to school,paid off loans, and then got good jobs and made decent income.But old habits die hard.I have never been an extravagant person and I found I still did not want to miss out on bargains or fair pricing, even after I had a good job and some extra. I also enjoy the thill of the hunt at consignment stores, and the idea of recycling not adding to land fills. And, I try NOT to cultivate higher priced tastes!!
Even though I can “afford”brand new Brooks sneakers, I can always find them almost new or actually new, for less than half price on ebay.Why wouldn’t I?? Due to foot issues I have to wear really good shoes and Vionics and Brooks cost a fortune! So I get them on ebay.
A friend (now just an acquaintance) called me some ugly names during the time I complained about high gas prices we were in Arizona a few years back.She said. due to my income, I should also be driving a prius, not a “suburban mom SUV!!!!” (We drive off road often and into mountainous areas in the North of Arizona and elsewhere. Even people with “enough” do not want to be gouged!!!!
Like youI would pay full price to any artisan that had an item I wanted to own.I value individuality, uniqueness, and the personal touch and energy that an artisan puts into their work.THAT’S spending money in a good way in my book.
In retirement, y frugal ways are again serving us well as we contemplate needing to live off retirement income for many yers ahead (hopefully..).. it ‘s easy to plan meals,eat at home, and save our funds for trips we really want to take, or for a few indulgences like a massage once in a while.
I think frugality is a mind set.It doesn’t dry up !!