A quote for spendthrifts and savers alike
Do not value money for any more nor any less than its worth; it is a good servant but a bad master.
~Alexandre Dumas fils, Camille, 1852
Why for both spenders and savers?
Because while it's obviously possible to be enslaved by the pursuit of spending, I think it's also quite possible to be enslaved by the pursuit of saving.
What do you think? And what do you think being enslaved by saving looks like?
While I have heard of people being obsessed with saving I have not encountered any in my personal life. Most of my friends tend to be pretty balanced with saving and spending although most of them are engineers like me and make pretty good money.
I don't know if anyone else is having this problem with the new Blog Her ads that have been showing up on your blog lately, but I thought I would comment. I don't mind the normal ads, but the new ones have been showing up in the upper left hand corner and blocking some of the text and pictures in your posts and I don't like having my Frugal Girl content covered up by ads about Crystal Light.
Goodness...they're showing up on the left side of the page? I'm trying to figure out why in the world that would be, since I only have them installed in the right sidebars.
Can you send me a screenshot of what's happening so that I can troubleshoot it? The ads are supposed to be firmly planted in the right sidebars, and definitely NOT over the content.
It isn't showing up now, of course. If I see another one I will send you a screen shot though.
there was a Blogher ad covering part of your photo and todays blog title. I don't know how to do a screen shot and when I clicked to post this comment, the ad disappeared.
You should have a button on your keyboard that says something like "prtscn". If you do, press that, and it should take a screen shot. Many apologies for the intrusive ad, and thanks for the help in getting rid of it!
When I think of someone obsessed with saving, I think of the pre-dream Scrooge. Hoarding money to no purpose, no plans for a future, no family he wants to leave a sum to, saving above any means he may require in his lifetime, and reluctant to help anyone else with his wealth. Fortunately for Scrooge, he has the series of dreams which allow him to see himself and his life more clearly.
There are a lot of people who think that if they just had more money they'd be happy. Well, the truth is, if you haven't found happiness yet, more money won't do the trick.
Actually, studies show that money status does indeed correlate with happiness levels - but only to a certain point. People are happier when they go from poverty to having their basic needs met and when they some discretionary income "wiggle room" for some luxury like a vacation, etc. But after that level, more money does NOT buy more happiness. A wealthy person isn't de facto happier than a middle class one. (That being said, there are some wealthy people who appreciate their blessings and are generous - like the founder of Habitat for Humanity. His money has brought so much to so many - how could he not get great joy from that 🙂 )
I guess my husband and I are the odd ones, then. For the first several years of our marriage we lived below the poverty line. Yet still we found tremendous joy, satisfaction and happiness with our life. As our income rose over the years, our happiness didn't increase, as it was always present at a high level. Money bought us more comforts, but not more happiness. But like I said, maybe my husband and I are the odd ones.
I don't think you would be considered odd at all - statistics can't predict what will happen for any one person, but rather probabilities of a group of people.
I bet there are tons of people blessed to find joy even in poverty - a lot has to do with innate temperament, role models, etc.
Also, when you were first married, were you just out of school with loans and/or starting your careers or family? That's a hugely different situation than a person in a situation where there is no financial potential. I was very happy with little money in my early 20s - I was being paid cr-p but was starting my dream career.
That's just the thing, where is a person finding their source of happiness? For you, when you were paid little, you were starting your dream career.
In my husband's and my first years together, we were in school, earned degrees, had a baby, my husband found a job at a very low wage, he was laid off, we were unemployed for a year, we moved from one major city to another, and still my husband was out of work for months. But we were still happy and thankful. Why? Because we knew we were in God's care. As believers, both my husband and I have always found our true sense of joy and happiness in our faith and our thankfulness. Life isn't always comfortable, but we don't equate comfort with happiness.
Perhaps a person's ability to be happy at any income level comes from their upbringing. Both my husband and I were raised by parents who always found happiness in life despite obstacles. This really served my husband and I well, when at age 19 he was in a terrible motorcycle accident, leaving him disabled for life. He wasn't expected to survive. My husband has an outstanding attitude. He gets up every day and cheerfully heads out the door to work, on crutches, all the while grateful for the opportunity to continue his life and have a family. Our marriage has inspired me to find gratitude, which breeds happiness in me, in every corner of my life.
Lili, your husband's story is inspirational. CatMan has a similar one. He was in a serious hiking/climbing accident 25 years ago that left him with permanent disabilities and a chronic pain condition. I know there are days that he still mourns the loss of the life that he had - rock climbing, cave exploring, hiking, skiing and the like, but it also opened up a whole new life of music and other pursuits. In fact, I don't think he and I would have ever met if he hadn't been slowed down by his injuries.
He deals with so much, yet complains so little. I think those kind of situations really put life into perspective and help us all to realize how very lucky we are for all that we have been given.
Lili - statistically you are the odd ones but it's a pity that's true. The world could use more positive outlooks.
Yep, money is a tool. When used well, it can make anything you want to do more efficient -- just as a tool does in other contexts.
I'd say being a slave to saving would be refusing to use money to make things in your life happier or easier, even though you've put away money for retirement and bought the necessary insurance. After your basic needs are taken care of, money is there to be used. It took me a long time to get my head around the idea of spending (investing!) money in my business -- I figured I could do it myself. But you only have so much time. And while I thought I'd do things myself, they often got done badly -- or didn't get done.
Jenessa and Kristen, for me, the Crystal Light is in the upper right tab and doesn't cover text, but if I scroll over it, it enlarges to cover some text. Hope that helps?
I have a conflicted relationship to money and happiness. Early in our marriage we were certainly happy despite very modest earnings. But I remember imagining what it would be like to earn more and how much easier (not necessarily happier) life would be. Now, we earn many times more what I imagined, but our lives are much more complicated and there are so many places where money drains despite all best efforts. I keep thinking there is some magic number that would be just right for our family, but of course I know it's elusive. I do believe, however, that although money doesn't buy happiness, it enables it up to a point by removing worry. Now, I'm glad we no longer have to worry about basic needs, but do worry about other things like college for our kids and retirement. Also, all of our family live across the country or overseas, and it is a huge drain on our finances to visit them, even every couple of years. I feel caught in a financial catch-22, I feel terrible if I don't visit family and enable my kids to get to know their grandparents and cousins, but also terrible for spending the money when it could be used to pay down debt or put to savings. In that situation, I try to value family over being overly frugal.
Anyway, thank you Kristen for your inspiring writing! (Saying this as a non-Christian, non-homeschooler 🙂
Maybe you could use the internet to help with cross-country family get-togethers: plan to watch a movie at the same time, then Skype to talk about it. Or create a blog or picture album that you share. And then there are letters: you could create cross-country puzzles or scavenger hunts together. 🙂
My sib used a similar program to read to his kids, when he traveled. He'd turn the camera to the book he was reading - the kids would hear his voice and see the book.
Cool ideas, thanks! My older son does do some online games with his cousin, where they can also chat or talk on Skype at the same time. Especially great for my son as he can practice his second language.
We have a similar situation with all our grandparents to our children. They all live a a plane ride away - at least a 3 hour plane ride and up to six. I have taken the tactic that as long as they are able bodied they come to us as much as possible. Unfortunately, one is no longer able to travel and we go see her once a year. It is doubly hard because we stay in a hotel because her place is not big enough for guests. I just feel strongly it is easier for one or two to travel to us than for us to travel as a group of four. We have also arrange a meet up at a ranch for everyone this year, so it is vacation/family time for us. I think what makes it difficult also is that you feel like you are spending money to go to the same places over and over again. I love seeing them, but it does eat up money and time resources. I know this doesn't present solutions, but just know other people are in your situation too. And I have found as others have mentioned that the grandparents do really appreciate skype, facetime, phone calls and letter!
I sometimes think my father tends to take frugality to extremes that are neither necessary nor helpful. We live in Denver, where it gets REALLY hot in the summertime. My dad & stepmom have a 2 story house, and it's like an oven on the second floor in the summertime. I keep trying to convince them to get air conditioning so they would be a bit more comfortable, but they refuse - saying that it's too expensive... which is totally crazy, because in the same breath my dad will tell me how he's got "so much" money coming in the door from retirement distributions and social security that he can't possibly spend it all. (it's probably not a huge amount, but he is the king of frugal.)
I guess in his mind air conditioning is one of those "wasteful" things that only rich people would indulge in. I seriously wonder how they're able to sleep at night because they also refuse to open the windows (they're nailed shut) because they're so convinced that someone will break in and rob them.
It all just makes me really sad.
I think if either spending or saving money becomes an obsession, it's time to step away from your purse or wallet and evaluate that which is non to healthy to your personal economy.
We all see the value of not -spending, but if you are, for lack of a better word, a tightwad, you may be doing yourself a disservice by not enjoying what you have, or by letting others do without.
Basically, what I am trying to say is...there needs to be a healthy balance. One or the other with moderation is fine. But when it leads up to obsessing over every penny saved or spent, that's when it can be a serious issue.
Hope that made sense and I'm digging the blog 🙂 Thanks FG!
Lyle
It's definitely possible to be enslaved by saving, I think the difference is that you're not actually saving for anything, just saving for the sake of it. I am on a low income, and having chosen to live alone, my rent is also quite high. Yes I could have shared a house to save more, but living alone is where I need to be at this point in my life.
I'm glad I'm not the only one! I feel like a lot of the "save 75% of my income"-ers have the benefit of a multi-income household, through marriage/partnership or roommates. And that just isn't for me at this point, either! (I'd personally say having personal space gives me a high return on investment.... )
I also have felt like that advice is directed to people who are making a decent wage, too. For all the years that Mr. FG worked a manual labor job, it took a huge effort just to not spend MORE than what we made, and saving 75% would have been impossible.
Kristen, this is so reassuring to hear.
I think the best way not to be enslaved to either saving or spending is to create a realistic budget. And then once you have allocated enough to your designated savings categories (ie. retirement, college, emergency, whatever), spend the rest! As your circumstances change, re-visit your budget to see if it still makes sense. And spending the money doesn't necessarily mean that you have to spend it all on yourself. There is no limit to what you can give to people in need.
I have friends who are enslaved by saving money. They made a plan to pay off debt & save for xx number of years so the wife could quit a job she hated & either get a different job or go back to school to do something else. They made a lot of sacrifices to get it done too.
Now they've met all their savings & time goals, but she still can't/won't quit because they have to keep saving. Seems a little pointless to me.
Yeah, I agree...unless there's a point to the saving, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
I think I do feel enslaved by saving sometimes. I just don't know how much savings is enough. "As much as possible" worked for me when I was single, but now that I am getting married and combining our finances, I have much less money to stash away each month (my fiance is a graduate student) and there are two people's preferences to consider. We are doing fine living on just my salary, but when we have to start paying for his health insurance this summer it will put us uncomfortably close to not being able to put anything away, unless we make other changes. I don't feel like we live extravagantly, so I feel bad asking my fiance to cut down on non-essentials. We also would like to have a child, but it's stressful figuring out where the money will come from. Does anyone know of a forum or something where you can post your budget and get feedback?
Try the Frugalwoods for a case study.
"What do you think being enslaved by saving looks like?"
For me, I think it's when I see people spend three times the amount of time to save a dollar as it would to make one. I mean, saving money can practically BE a full-time job if you go overboard.
I love to save money.. It gives me a sense of security.. but I do try and balance the time it takes to save the money versus just buying what I want/need.
~ darlene 🙂
Ooh, that's a good one. The only time that sort of thing makes sense is when the frugal activity is something you really, really love and would do just for fun. Then I figure the time involved doesn't matter a whole lot.
I agree. Examples for me are baking bread and going to garage sales.
As a young widowed mother , I suffered many obstacles in working and managing our needs. Having had an extremely frugal mother, grandmother ,and great grandmother I appreciate their extreme frugalness. Having lived in orphanages during the war and depression, the grandmother's could bleed turnips. Years ago, I spent part of my life with a man where money was no obstacle. His income allowed me to buy anything at anytime. It is an incredible feeling to live with no restrictions. No worry ever. Given a choice to stay or leave, I left. I also left with nothing but a 100 dollar bill in my hand. I didn't even take my car. Quality of life is necessary and money can't buy that. People often comment on me leaving the man, money, mansion and my new mercedes. I have always known how to be poor. I have a lovely home and car that were frugal purchases but are mine. Paid for and I am at peace. I found all that money to be evil. I tend to hoard food and other needed items but couponing controls the actual money spent. I imagine that is an insecurity issue. We always have what we need.