On sneaking candy into the movies (+ general thoughts about honesty)
The thoughts I'm going to share today have been sort of percolating in my brain for some time, but after reading the comments on one of The NonConsumer Advocate's recent posts, I was inspired to actually get the thoughts down into a post.
Those of us who are trying to save money frequently encounter the temptation to do unscrupulous things. Sneaking candy into a movie is but one in a sea of temptations...fudging on taxes, sneaking in an expired coupon, using a coupon for a product it's not meant to be used on, downloading free music illegally, copying CDs or DVDs without buying them, or lying about a kid's age to get a discounted price, to name a few.
I'm no stranger to these temptations, certainly...frugality is in my very bones, and I have to be careful not to let frugality trump other things that are more important, like honesty.
The way I deal with this temptation is most definitely tied to my faith, so my apologies to those of you for whom this won't be helpful.
For me, these temptations come down to a matter of whether or not I trust God.
Do I think He's going to provide for my needs?
(If I don't, I'm tempted to use my own means to provide.)
Do I trust that the way He's told me to live is the best way?
(If I trust that God is wise and loving, then I can be sure that when He tells me to be honest, it's for my own good.)
Honesty is not a way that I earn God's favor (because of Jesus, God couldn't possibly love me more than He already does), and that's a good thing, because I don't find that to be particularly motivating. And even if I did, trying to be honest for that reason would be exhausting and stressful.
Realizing that God's directions about honesty are for my good is very freeing...I know that I ultimately will be better off doing what He's told me to do, even if I'm not actually better off financially.
Seeing my temptations to dishonesty in this new light was quite a revelation to me a number of years ago. I guess I hadn't quite seen them for what they were before...not just a temptation to sneak candy into a movie, but a temptation to not trust God.
When I see it for what it is, it suddenly seems so dumb. How could I possibly expect God to bless what I'm doing when it's the opposite of what He's told me to do? And how silly to think that I can bless myself more by disobeying God than by obeying Him and enjoying the blessings that come along with that.
So, because I know God loves me and wants what is best for me, I try, by His grace, to live honestly.
That's why I don't sneak food into movie theaters (incidentally, if you have to use the word "sneak" in front of an activity, you might want to think twice about what you're doing.)
It's why I report my self-employment income on my taxes, even though it would be nigh onto impossible for me to get caught if I didn't.
It's why I follow the rules for proper coupon use, even if the cashier/machine wouldn't catch me doing otherwise.
It's why I don't copy CDs or DVDs or share digital downloads with people outside of my household (This IS illegal, even if you're not copying it to sell it. Copying material for your own use is wrong if that material was purchased by someone else for their own use.)
It's why I let stores know when they undercharge me or give me too much change (of course, I also let them know if they overcharge me!)
One other thing that motivates me to live honestly is love for other people. A lot of temptations to be dishonest appeal to our selfishness, and so if I love other people more than myself, those temptations will become less, well, tempting!
If I love other people, I will not take a sale away from a musician/author/artist by copying their work instead of buying it.
If I love other people, I will let the cashier know when they give me too much change, so that their register doesn't come up short.
If I love other people, I will not do things that hurt their company, like using coupons in a manner not intended, sneaking in food instead of buying it, or taking more of a loss-leader sale item than they specify.
So! Those are the two main factors that influence my thinking about honesty vs. frugality (my trust in God and my love for other people).
Honestly (hee), in the face of these two factors, I haven't come across a justification for dishonesty that really holds any water.
What do YOU think? How do you handle the temptation to be dishonest in order to save money?
(edit: I forgot to mention that where I live, movie theaters prohibit bringing outside food and drink. If your movie theater doesn't prohibit it, then by all means, stuff your pockets with candy! 😉 )
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Today's 365 post: So, yes, some wax got on the cake.
Joshua's 365 post: More Birthday Spoils
For me it is not a matter of religion but the example I want to show to my children. I cannot expect them to tell me the truth if I have shown them that dishonesty is acceptable or excusable.
If a cashier gives me too much change then I welcome it as a great opportunity to show my kids that doing the honest thing is the right thing. I explain the whole thing to them and at first they used to say 'but we could just have kept that money and used it ourselves' however, explaining that there may be consequences for the cashier soon had them realising that our actions affect other people and they HATE the thought of anyone getting into trouble!
My line to myself is, "Is it worth mortgaging my soul [or honor] for this?" I'm rarely tempted to do something I consider wrong for financial gain but when it does happen, the answer is always no.
I have a very, very good friend who I love dearly but who is the most unethical person we know when it comes to various little "scams" for saving a few dollars. So now our rule of thumb, when trying to figure out if something is ethical or not, is to ask ourselves WWSD? (What would she do?) and then NOT do that.
But, while I think I generally avoid "sneaking" or scamming to save money, I'm not particularly vigilant about things like making sure I didn't get too much (or too little) change or that everything in my cart got rung up. I kind of just trust that the person ringing me up is getting everything, and neither over- nor under-charging me, and that if they do either, in the end it will balance out, since I never check the individual items on my receipt.
See, I'm sort of vigilant about my receipts, and so I figure that if I'm vigilant about getting overcharged, I should also be vigilant about being undercharged. Otherwise, it won't balance out the way it does with you.
I have that same friend! It makes me so uncomfortable when she does those things, it confirms in my heart that it's not for me. I am as honest as I can be, and try to explain to her my reasoning behind supporting local business, paying appropriate taxes, licencing my dog, etc. It all adds up, and in the end, I know my balance will be in my favor 🙂
Mixed feelings about this. I am an honest person as far as I'm concerned. Like you, I have resisted pressure to cheat on my taxes. I download music but if I truly like the artist, I will purchase the cd.
The whole topic gets very sticky. I purchase CDs and DVDs used - does that take away from the artists? It's not illegal to purchase these.
I admit I sneak snacks into the theatre for several reasons. The portion of snacks they offer are large and instead of stuffing my face with an entire bag of popcorn/nachos, I may only eat a small bag of chips instead. Plus, the food is often stale. I may bring a reusale bottle of wate instead of a $2.50 bottle purchased there. The mark up is heinous.
I consider myself an honest and just person as a whole. Everyone can look at one another and find something they do is cheap or stealing to an extent. You mentioned yourself that downloading is wrong but still do it for your family.
Oh, that's because as far as I know, it's legal to share music within a household (for instance, Mr. FG and I have copied music from our CDs onto our MP3 players). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that, though. If it's illegal, I definitely will change my ways.
It's not illegal to buy used books, CDs, and DVDs, so I have no issue with doing that. I mean, I think it's lovely to support an artist, so I have no argument with buying new in order to do that, but I also don't think it's wrong to buy used.
Per copyright law you are allowed to copy them under Fair Use. What is NOT okay is to copy it to your CDs to your MP3 player or make a backup CD and then sell the originals. I know quite a few people who have done that and when I remind them it's illegal they usually swear at me. :-/
It would be illegal to give the CDs away too, right? As far as I know, it's not just illegal to sell them. If that were the case, then downloading services wouldn't be illegal as long as they were free. But since free downloading services are illegal, I'm thinking it's illegal to share music even if if you're not charging.
It's legal to share music within a household, and it's legal to move media from one medium to another (within a household), but it's illegal to make huplicate copies for outside-of-household use.
Unfortunately, the music & movie industries are trying to convince users that it is not legal to move media from one medium to another (such as from TV to disc, or DVD to computer), so they can sell us several copies of something we already own. Grrr.
WilliamB,
who does take my own snacks into movies
Kristen, It's not illegal to give away (as a gift) or sell (as in a garage sale) a CD that you purchased. The artist gets his/her royalty from the first purchase. After that, *you* own the CD and the artist won't get any more money from it. However, you cannot make copies of it and give or sell them to others, just so that they don't spend their own money because they're too cheap. That's where cheating the artist would come in, because the others are not purchasing the music legally.
I do take my water bottle into the movie theater. I also take it into church because I have a chronic cough and that water bottle goes everywhere with me.
When I had my one-and-only retail job, I remember an older woman buying a book and giving me a $10 bill. There were actually 2 stuck together, so I just gave her the extra one back with her change. She was surprised that I was honest. Sad, isn't it?
Oh yes! I meant it's illegal to give it away when you keep the music. For instance, if I copy music onto my MP3 player, it wouldn't be legal for me to then sell the CD and also keep the music on my MP3 player.
Depends where you live, some areas are stricter than others. In Canada, they are cracking down and individuals who own, let's say, 20,000 on their computers have it seized as they believe there is reason to "traffick" the music (similar frame of reference to possession of narcotics).
Touchy subject. As what Battra states below, you have the right to copy songs, however it's illegal to copy to a portable and personal device. To me, it's should be wrong either way - what difference does it make? I can buy a CD, copy it to my computer, and then cannot transfer to my mp3 player?
If we are using the logic of not taking from the artists that create the art without paying, then buying used is wrong as well. The artist does not profit when you purchase a CD from a garage sale or a second hand store, despite money changing hands. The same could apply to someone who purchased a CD, uploads it, and then individuals download it for a minor feee or no fee at all. An artist profitted once at the beginning of this transaction, and subsequently loses it as it transfers from hand to hand.
I had a friend that was a manager at a movie theater once, and she said that very little money is made off of move sale tickets, and most of their profits are from their food sales. That made me really look at the food as how the employees were getting paid.
As a business major I look at it and say why not lower the price and sell twice as much?
I always this way as well - you'd sell more popcorn and drinks if you didn't charge as much and probably make up the difference and not have to worry about "policing" any policy because of your outrageous prices.
Yes, clever!! I do cop to sneaking the occasional Tootsie pop in with me --now i am questioning this.
I actually know the answer to this question! It's a classic business school case, because it covers something that was unknown at the time and changed many food industries.
The answer is, people don't go back to buy more.
This observation was made in the 1950s/60s, by a consultant to a movie theater owner. The owner's strategy was, as Battra92 proposed, that customers could buy another soda/popcorn/candy bar. The consultant accurately pointed out that people just didn't do that - they would buy only one of an item. The case didn't get into why; maybe we would have if it were an organizational behavior class rather than a marketing class. The theater then ran some experiments with serving size and price, and discovered that customers would buy a large item - even one twice as large as a small - but wouldn't get more.
So now movie theaters, fast food restaurants, and so on, have super-sizes.
There's a secondary issue: not all costs scale perfectly. Selling one 20 oz soda costs the theater owner less than selling two 10 oz sodas (labor is the same, one cup vs two, amount of ice) and is twice as fast, thus improving thru-put.
I learned the same thing in a mass communications class. What I took away from that was that if it was a theater I loved, I'd buy something there to support the theater (like, a special, old, renovated theater, or at a dollar movie theater) so it'd be more likely to stay in business! Otherwise, I'd try to have a snack before I came--maybe a special snack at a fast food restaurant or something so I'd feel less deprived--or to share one among many friends! (also less likely to overeat that way)
Very well said!
I agree with all the ethics re honesty. Luckily, here in Australia you can take what you want to eat into the cinema, which is just as well since the cinemas are daylight robbery re their sweeties and drinks. I could never pay $ 12 for a small popcorn and small drink just because it was in a Lightning McQueen box.
I don't think God should have anything to do with it. We shouldn't do these things because it's wrong and stealing. What God would think about it is beside the point. Although I do admit to bringing a mini bag of m&ms to my daughter's first movie. I rationalized it since she's 3 $ I wanted to make it fun. I shouldn't have though. We did buy the popcorn though.
For me, God has everything to do with it. My basis for figuring out what's right and wrong in life comes from what the Bible says. I'm not saying everyone functions that way, but for me, what God thinks about stuff is more than just relevant...it's the backbone for my thinking and living.
Not trying to be controversial or anything, but how do you determine what is good or bad, right or wrong, without God? I've never understood how people who don't use God's laws/rules as a basis, figure out what is right or wrong.
Whoa - how to determine what is and is not moral is not an easy question, with or without adding a god to the discussion. Personally I don't find "God said" to be less complicated than "Grandma taught me" or "society says." Also, there are many ethical tradtions that exist independent of god(s), such as ethical humanism and confucianism. I hope you'll forgive, though, my not going into further detail. Doing so would *really* take over poor FG's blog.
Rebecca, as one of Kristen's secular readers I will tell you I have no problem distinguishing right from wrong without "God's rules/laws as a basis." There are plenty of other rules and laws out there to offer guidance, and I generally adhere to the Golden Rule with a large dash of kindness, compassion, and generally decency thrown in for good measure. I do what I think is right not based upon the Bible but out of an innate sense of integrity. I'm teaching my children (ages 7 and 9) the same principles and it seems to be working pretty well so far (with no religious upbringing whatsoever they have what appears to be a strong moral compass and sense of honesty). Hope that helps respectfully shed some light on a different viewpoint!
Lynne, I adore you. This x1000: "I do what I think is right now based upon the Bible but out of an innate sense of integrity."
As a life-long and committed atheist, I can tell you that the fact that we are all each other has is what keeps me honest and stops me from doing things that are wrong. In other words, this planet and, most importantly, the people on are all we get. Just this one chance. You are all I've got and I'm all you've got, so it is of paramount importance that we treat each other well. There is no cosmic forgiveness or supernatural do-overs in the sky, just our actions and their consequences. It is for this same reason that I feel compelled live an environmentally conscious life. We've just got this one world, you see. There is no metaphysical superpower to save us from any mess we create. Just our actions and their consequences.
We also strive to be honest in all our dealings. I am also vigilant about checking my receipts and ensuring that I am not being overcharged, but I admit that I do not fight as hard to get them to correct an undercharge, as I would to correct an overcharge. (Receiving too much change is another story. I ALWAYS return that.) I point out an undercharge and state what I believed the price to be, but more often than not, the cashier simply says, "It must be on sale."
As for sneaking food into the theater. I do not do it, but I also do not buy food or drinks at the theater either. If I have young kids with me, ones that will not make it through an entire movie without a snack, I will give them one of the healthy snacks I carry in my bag anyway, such as crackers or a granola bar, but these items are not available for purchase at the theater and neither are any other healthy options. However, we have figured out the best way to avoid the whole snacks in theater dilemma, and stay frugal, is to go to the drive-in theater. The one we go to allows you to bring your own food, but they also sell a variety of food, including healthy options, at a reasonable price, too. Plus, we get 2 first-run movies for less than the price of 1 in a regular theater and the littlest ones are free.
A drive-in? Do they still exist? Where I live all the drive-ins went out of business years ago.
The theater experience doesn't impress me. There are few movies out that even slightly interest me and I can happily wait for them to come out on DVD and check them out from the library and see them for free.
its very very frugal that way.
We were just talking about this yesterday because my husband and I went to the movies and were charged - $$$$9.50!!!!! - for 1 small bag of popcorn and 1 medium coke!! When I said to the cashier, "$9.50, you have got to be kidding me!" He said, "Well, you can get the small coke instead for $9.00." One thing for sure, I will NEVER again buy popcorn or any other concessions at a movie!
I didn't realize it was wrong to take one's own snacks into a movie theater. Actually I can get through a movie without snacks or a drink, but I have often seen people buying expensive snacks and thought how foolish not to bring their own. I always thought it was optional whether to buy it or bring it.
I've brought snacks into the movies before--not "sneaking" it, but right in my hand and no one has every said anything about it while taking my ticket.
I don't bring in food and drinks for us (adults) when we go to the theatre. Generally, we don't eat or drink during a movie. During "Cars 2" we took our son and gave him the whole theatre experience, so we bought him a kiddie pack. However, much to my dismay, they wouldn't replace his "soda" option with a water one. We didn't care if it were from a tap, but they refused. They told us we had to buy a bottle of water as well. (We don't let our 2 year old drink sodas.) And they didn't have any other alternative. So, in the theatre we let him have his juicy juice box that I keep in my purse, and I drank the soda. (I keep a baggie of goldfish crackers and a juice box for outings.)
Not touching the overall issues you brought up, here's a crumb of food for thought for you: The last time I went to a movie theater (AMC, about a month ago), I was carrying a Jack in the Box large drink, intending to throw it away the first time someone looked at it askance or asked me about it. Thing is, no one did! I even went to the concession stand for popcorn, and the cashier had to have seen the non-AMC cup I placed on the counter, but he didn't bat an eyelash. So, apparently, at least at *that* AMC theater, it doesn't require sneaking!
If you see my previous post, I don't think movie theatres really care what you eat.
Once when the kiddos were little and I had a care seat in the cart, at the register something slipped under the carseat and I didn't see it at the check out. I got the baby and the other four kids out to the car and realized I hadn't paid for the item that was under the car seat. I brought ALL of the kids back into the store, stood in line with the same check out girl. When it was my turn I explained what happened, apologized for the error and asked her to ring it up so I could pay for it. I swear, the cashier went into shock. It was one of the best things I ever did to teach my children how to "own" your mistakes and that honestly was always best. To this day, my grown children comment about that incident. It's so important to be the right example for our children.
I've done that before when my kids were little and I had a carseat in the cart. It's SO frustrating to get everyone out to the car only to realize you didn't pay for something.
Oh, I did the same thing only my unpaid item was a shelving unit that I pointed out on the bottom of the cart but they still didn't charge me for it. I had to pick up my son from preschool so after that I went back to the store to pay for the shelf. They were so shocked that I would come back and point it out them that they gave me 50% off. It was sooooo worth it to have a clear conscience. (If I had kept it for free I never would have been able to step in the store again for the guilt I would feel). I want to be honest because God says to but I also think how angry I would be if someone tried to stiff one of my kids when they were working retail as teens.
I had a similar experience with soda in the bottom of my cart. The store wasn't quite sure how to handle it; in the end they rang up more, I paid for it, and didn't take it with me.
It's not illegal and, in my opinion, not immoral to take snacks into a movie theater. They aren't losing revenue as I wouldn't pay $4 for a box of candy or $6 for a bag of popcorn.
Most times I just go without and then if I'm really hungry, I'll eat something later on. Movies are already way too expensive. If it was an indie theater or an historic one that isn't owned by Regal or AMC and was charging a fair price for popcorn, I'd buy it.
I do know people who, despite making salaries double my fiancee and I combined will never buy a CD, DVD or piece of software. They are perhaps the cheapest and least generous people I know. I hope to never become like that.
Whether I would buy a snack or not is beside the point for me. The fact is that if I want to frequent a business, I ought to either abide by their rules or just not frequent that business.
I realize you're not exactly saying this, but I have never understood the logic that says, "This price is way too high, so I'll just take it without paying for it." (I've heard this presented multiple times regarding CD and illegal downloads). If I think a price is too high, I won't buy the item in question, but I don't think unreasonably high prices justify dishonest behavior.
That said, I completely agree that it's not exactly impossible to watch a movie without eating. I can go more than 2 hours without eating. =P
Have to agree with this -- can't rationalize that something is too high -- either you can afford it or not.
I believe I read a study somewhere that said the more money people make, many time, the less generous they are to others. It makes sense, since people who make less money, many times, have to rely on others more often for things. The more money ones makes, the less they have to rely on others.
I think we read the same studies. It went on to demonstrate that the more money one makes the more likely one is to think one's riches are the result of one's hard work, and to discount the effect of luck, or a head start such as good schooling, or a societal advantage (height, gender, race, etc.). What goes with this is the belief that all someone else needs to do is work hard to succeed, therefore anyone who has not succeeded is not working hard enough.
Yes. It's hard to see privilege when you have it. I have a post in the works about that, actually. Well, it's actually just in my head, but it has to be there before it makes it to my blog!
I think I've read this study too, lots of complicated motivations behind what we do. I can't remember if it showed correlation or causality or how high the number was. If you've never seen the RSA video, "The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us" I'd recommend it as being something everyone might find interesting.
My daughter's friend worked in a theater when they were in high school, and he told us the manager's attitude was that while they would like you to buy the theater's over-priced food, they were still glad you had bought a ticket, so brought-in food was ignored. I think that depends on the individual theater's policy. Of course, a TRULY frugalista doesn't even GO to the theater, so it's moot! We can't really afford the ticket prices here in our town -- usually $12-$18 a ticket!
The other stuff is a matter of honesty and good citizenship -- frugality is great, but ONLY if it does not cheat someone else. NO dollars saved is worth hurting a business or individual, ever.
Wow! You sure openned up a can of worms with this one, but I totally agree with every word. It is not something that is easliy agreed upon...I think it just show the state of our hearts.
How can I bring glory to God? Probably not by being sneaky.
Thanks for the post!
I love this post because I've thought about this a lot as well. l strive to be honest in all of my dealings and I have actually encountered register people who have been unwilling to let me be honest (there was one time I had to call a manager and force them to add something onto my bill because I wasn't charged for it and she kept saying "don't worry about it"). It is a hassle to be honest sometimes, but I always know that I've done the right thing.
That being said . . when I was on Weight Watchers, I actually called the movie theater and asked them if I could bring in my own popcorn that was measured and low-fat and they told me that I could bring it whatever I wanted - there are actually no rules that say you can't bring anything in from the outside. So at least with that particular theater - I have felt honest about "sneaking" things in bottles of water or candy ever since.
Admire your honesty -- pre-calling the theatre -- that is commendable!
About undercharging: I have brought it to the cashier's attentions many times quietly (or the waitress) only to have them tell me not to worry about it. It turns out that sometimes they really mean it! It may be harder to go back and fix the register or they may be unwilling to notify a supervisor that a mistake has been made, ahem. In that case, I feel I've done my best and my conscience is clear. Is it worth getting the cashier in trouble? Or am I enabling her/him to slide under the radar?? Grrr, these philosophical questions! Very thought provoking!
Honestly, I'm a little perplexed by the "no-bringing-your-own-food-into-movie-theaters" argument. I've never actually seen signs at my local theaters telling patrons not to bring in food, and so I've always brought my own---especially when I was vegan and couldn't eat 99% of the available food. I now sometimes buy a small popcorn or drink, but just as often ask for a cup of water at the counter (they never charge me for it) and eat my own snacks.
I just don't understand how it's stealing from the theater to bring in your own food if you have no intention of buying their food anyway. I don't think anyone's arguing that completely eschewing concession stands is stealing, so I'm genuinely bewildered. And in certain situations, it gets sticky. Yes, we are all generally capable of going a couple hours without eating...but was it wrong of me to bring vegan food into the theater when they had no options for me at the counter? What if I had severe allergies? Or how about when I'm pregnant and nauseated by going even the smallest period of time without eating or drinking? Is it wrong of me to carry in ginger candy to quell my nausea?
As for it being against the rules (depending on the theater), I just can't get behind following rules for the sake of following rules. In almost all cases, I am happy to follow the rules of businesses or else not frequent them---but that's because there's usually an equivalent option I could choose instead. With movie theaters, there ARE no equivalent options for me if I don't like their rules. (Netflix is not the same).
I guess I'd say the option is to attend the theater but not eat anything because it is possible to watch a movie without eating (except in cases where you are sick, as you pointed out). I think cases such as veganism and pregnancy nausea are the exception and not the rule, though. By and large, most people I've talked to say they bring snacks because the ones at the theater are too expensive, not because they have some unusual circumstance (and the former is the type of thing I was addressing in this post.)
I look at it like I do when I go to a baseball game. They don't allow outside food and drink, so I don't bring any (we have no extenuating circumstances or health problems that would require us to bring our own special food). Whether or not I actually buy food there is beside the point...it's their business so they make the rules, you know? Same with amusement parks and any other business that specifies no outside food.
Naturally, if the theater doesn't specify, then it's a moot point and I think you can bring whatever you want! 🙂
Unfortunately I think everyone now and then sneaks something into the movies.
If you want to talk about faith and God, there is a scripture that says, "he who is faithful in (what is) least, is faithful in ( what is ) much.."
Do I think they over charge at movies..YES..does it make it right to sneak it is? Why do we NEED candy etc, at the movies! UIs it what keeps some movie theater open? Yes...
It would be ideal if people didn't steal, (whatever ..music, lying about children's ages etc etc. as mentioned in the above article), including sneaking food into the movies, with OUT thinking they have to answer to God, (not saying we should not believe in God here) but just because it is unethical, and a bad example to our children. Be careful, though, if you are doing it to make a point to your children...do it in EVERYTHING (including taxes etc) not just "some" things...that's makes it hypocritical, and children SEE that.
I can't cheat - on anything - it stresses me too much.
Haven't bought any food at a movie in forever - good heavens, it's only about 2 hours and I don't need to eat that often. I don't download music, I buy CDs or listen to the radio, and I give a donation to the local PB station because I listen to that mostly. Yes, I've gone back to a store when I've accidentally walked out with something - a tube of mascara comes to mind, it lodged in the seat part of the cart. When I buy something at the thrift store and resell it (because I'm done with it not because I bought it to resale) for more than I paid, I take the difference and donate the money back to the thrift store - just did that with a purse I bought for $1 and sold at a yard sale for $3.
I do this because it's the right thing to do - I want to be treated this way and I hope that if I do it others will too - sort of the ripple effect.
Why is it wrong to resell an item for a price that you deem more appropriate? You were honest in paying the requested price when you purchased it. That person maybe could care less about making a profit, perhaps just wanted to declutter. Once you own it, why is it wrong to sell it for a higher price if it's worth it and someone else is willing to purchase it? Seems on the up and up to me...
The thrift store I buy from is sponsored by a Center for Rape and Abuse Emergencies and all profits go to support that extremely important charity. Things I buy at yard sales - if I sell for more, I keep the profit.
Interesting thoughts and made me wonder as well the different practicies in life from that point of view. What I have been trying to do, is to minimize credit card use in average life- except in some occasions and vacations. Too often credit card shopping turns bigger than planned or larger than supposed.
I sneak candy into movies. I'm not ashamed, and I don't mind admitting to it. That said, I have also bought my fair share of movie theater popcorn and candy as well, so I feel that it all balances out.
Yes, I'm a Christian, and yes, I know better, but the high markup just bothers me so much that I guess I feel rebellious and don't want to pay that. Is it any different than using my own tape when I'm going to the post office instead of buying theirs?
That said, I rarely copy friend's CDs and, though I have done it in the past from the library, I no longer download the music or audio book from the library onto my computer. I know it's not right to do this, and I realize that it's illegal, but I also can't help thinking that that artist makes so much more money than me, am I really hurting them? (As I write this I remember that there are many other, smaller people, who aren't benefiting from this sale as well).
I don't know. Do I realize it's unethical? Yeah...but I do it anyway. It's not like I'm sneaking into the theater, I'm at least paying the ticket price.
Things may change when I have kids, but for now, I don't have guilt about sneaking food into the theater.
Kristen, you are right on the mark! I couldn't have said it any better! God leads us to do things because His ways result in the best life possible for us, and He ALWAYS has our best interest at heart! AND, if we have a 'servant's attitude', like he wants us to, like Jesus did when he was here, we will treat others better. I have always liked your blog, now my opinion of you has risen to new heights. Thanks for standing up for the truth and God in the midst of a world that is busily rushing the other way!
Well put, Angela... my thoughts exactly! 😉
To be honest taking your own candy in a movie theatre isnt sneaking. They very unfairly try to impose a ban becasue they dont think they make enough from bums on seats (which they actually do) You are just carrying the stuff in your purse etc the way you might always do. There is not a singlefederal or governmental law against it nor against consuming it.
~ they make enough from bums on seats (which they actually do) ~
I have to question what you base this assumption on. As someone who grew up in the industry, I can tell you that, at least with independent theatres, the money is not made on the box office ticket. Film companies, booking agents and the tax man take a huge chunk of that revenue - off the top. If you're lucky, you keep maybe 50%, and all your expenses come out of that. The profit is very small.
I thought a 50% profit was a pretty good profit?
I also wonder why ppl feel the need to eat during a movie anyway. Cant they have a meal before or after??
I can't lie. It's hilarious when I try.
But I'd rather be bad at lying than good at lying. Right? Right.
Excellent post. You/your blog rocks. What a great spokesperson for living a Godly, ethical life.
Living honestly is an aspect of living within your means. I agree with you all the way through on this, for the same reasons. One of the reasons for living frugally is to avoid temptation to cheat a bit, to extend the credit past what we can afford, or to earn some money under the table. As a friend of mine said about lying to her insurance company to save a couple of hundred dollars, "Is my integrity worth so little?"
I do take my own snacks into the theater because I am diabetic and there are no healthy options for me at the snack counter. As for the rest I do copy music cd's from the library to my ipod. I wouldn't have clue one on now to copy dvd's,use coupons illegally and have never been shorted at the register,forgotten to get something rung up when I check out. When I am overcharged I do ask for a price check on that item and I also write the price down that I saw when I picked up the item.
As far as god and organized religion goes I do not practice the same as probably most of the posters,including Kristen do so I do not comment on how it effects my decisions for my life. I prefer to simply keep somethings to myself.
🙂
I agree with these except for the movie theater one. We go about twice a year and usually don't sneak food in. If I'm hungry I'll buy popcorn. But I am allergic to all the kinds of candy they sale (I'm allergic to chocolate and fruit). Also, I think those prices are dishonest. They are meant to maximize profit and don't reflect a fair cost. I don't feel morally bound to participate in a system that I think is exploitive.
What about sneaking in your water bottle? I do this all the time. I know places say "no food or drink" because they want you to buy theirs. I'm also allergic to soda, so I know I'm not going to buy theirs anyway. I could ask for a cup of water, but that would contribute to waste (plus they are usually really small). What is more ethical there?
I would agree with this comment the most. It's hard to win every way around it. There's an ethical dilemma with each option. To each their own!
One time at a restaurant I told the cashier that my daughter was 7, when she had recently turned 8. The look at my daughter's face taught me that no amount of money is worth teaching my children to lie! I felt horrible and will not do it again. They are watching our every move. Seemingly "little" dishonesty can easily turn into big dishonesty!
My dad did this to me once! I was devastated...I thought he had forgot my birthday.
Oh and BTW, fabulous post! Thank you!
I really appreciate your straight forward, honest thoughts. You are never hoity toity, fake, or arrogant and the world needs more people like you who aren't afraid to get real. Thanks for all the honest and informational blogging!
In our 39 year marriage, I must confess to taking food into the movies, but twice we have had problems with getting too much money back from transactions. First was a bank teller in a drive through who kept sending back $100 too much (in a time when we had two young children, hubby in school and no money) .. We finally had to go in to the bank and talk to the manager. The second time was just a couple of weeks ago when we returned a bunch of laminate flooring to the store. We were told to expect a $1900 refund when we returned maybe $200 worth of flooring. We told them to recheck the records.. After they checked them again and waiting 5 weeks for the refund, we still feel like they gave us too much...but we have no way of proving it so we have taken it...
Wow!! Kudos, major kudos to you for sticking with these big money fixes -- that is truly honest and inspiring. Hard to believe that businesses would be so careless, but your response reminds me that most people are honest and forthright -- thanks for that!!!
Great post! You could go far on this one. It is a great way to ponder what example you are to your kids. I feed my kids before the movies, but they still whine because of temptation all around us. Or they say, but Grandma does it. I grew up with smuggling in food. I want to be honest as well, it even goes as far as believing in Santa, or is Jesus real? They have those questions and I do not want to deceive them. These are lifestyle lessons they carry into adulthood. I want to be an honest mom who always went by the rules. I have to catch my husband on a few of these at times.
Oh, Shannonc!
Thank you so much for your comment about Santa Claus! Our children knew that Christmas was bout Christ - that the modern day santa is a "fairy tale". I received hateful comments from other parents when they found out we told our children the truth about the easter bunny, santa claus, etc.. But, the truth is powerful, and our children appreciated it - they never missed out on anything because they knew the truth. It's not easy, but like you, I want to be an honest mom, and nana.
do you believe in santa, is a touchy subject among parents. Including if you celebrate Halloween, or spank your children. It is totally up to you and your husband. All we know is what we grew up with, or copy what seems good from others. I have made our celebrations unique in sharing what and why we believe the way we do. Family is centered around what we celebrate.
Well said, I just can't enjoy something if there is dishonesty attached to it. I'm the one that reminds salespeople if they haven't charged me for something etc. Makes me feels like a pillock sometimes but you have to follow your conscience.
Hi Kristen!
Thank you for such a great post. It's a refreshing statment of faith and truth. If we are God followers we are honest - even to our hurt, (even though in the long run there is no hurt, but peace.)
Thank you for addressing not only honesty, but the ever-growing. heart invasisve attitude of entitlement.
Christian here. I absolutely do not consider bringing in my own water bottle (I don't drink soda) and snacks to be "sneaking". What am I sneaking? The movie theater does not have signs up that prohibit outside food - if they did, I wouldn't bring it in *shrugs* I believe that they give you the option to buy their very overpriced food/drinks, but they don't care if you bring your own in. I dunno. I remember that type of thing back when I was a teenager, but no modern theater seems to have these types of restrictions.
The truly frugal option, of course, would be to rent a DVD and watch the movie in your own home. We very, very rarely go the theater for a movie, because I think it is utterly nuts to spend $50+ to take a family of 5 to see a movie that will be out on DVD (often for $1 at Redbox) within a couple of months.
I see no problem with taking my own snacks to the movies. If the movie theaters didn't sell only junk food, then I might not take my own. I'm not going to buy there stuff anyway, so what's wrong with taking a container of grapes and a re-useable bottle of water. I don't think it is unethical and no employee at a theater has ever asked me about our food or water bottles.
I will take snacks into theaters at times and I always take my water bottle. It has nothing to do with prices though. I just refuse to eat the garbage they sell there. My water is filtered and alkaline and something I can't get out of a bottle they sell and instead of popcorn we may munch on dried fruit. If they want my business then they need to serve healthier foods. I used to be a manager at a theater and we had a no outside food policy UNLESS it was part of a special diet. I am on a special "no junk" diet.
I have a flip side to your (very good) points.
Take your example about a clerk giving me too much change. I had that happen once and tried to explain to the girl why she gave me the wrong amount. I spent a good five minutes going over the math - even writing it out on paper for her - to explain why she made the mistake and gave me too much. She still wasn't getting it and the customers in line after me were getting irrtiated at having to wait. I finally gave up and left with the extra money because, at some point, me trying to be honest turned into her wasting my time and the time of others which isn't fair.
I don't think the issue is as cut and dried as you're post makes it out to be, I"m afraid. But I've enjoyed reading the discussion here - very thought provoking.
Kristen,
I'm late to the discussion (working today) but just wanted to say you have found your moral and ethical compass through your faith and it doesn't let you or your family down. After 40 years (not really, but nearly) of trying to determine my own rules and ethics, I have returned to my childhood faith of Catholicism and find it a great relief to turn to the Bible and its message as a guide I can trust. It makes it so much easier to know how to act when you can see it from what would Jesus ask of us. In the past I would have pretty much mocked someone saying that (sadly) but now, I feel home. We all have free will and can take this journey for ourselves. I, for one, am tired of making my own trail and am happy back on this path.
WOW,,, a blog about honesty and it turned it to a "popcorn " fight lol
i personally am in a "searching" part of my life and i dont know what i believe in ( as far as religion goes) BUT... i do know i was taught by my parents to respect others, follow the rule sand life life to the best of my ability. if goverment says i must fill out my taxes every year , then i do . If i am told at work to do a certain job , i do it.. if something is not mine i do not take it.. simple logic.. i dont really see the gray area .
I disagree that bringing candy into a movie theater is dishonest. The theater is not the government, you pay to get in and if you buy their candy and drinks they charge a very unreasonable price for their products. Personally, I don't eat at the movies, but candy bought outside with your own money is not contraband. They prohibit outside food because they want to make a bigger profit and the food they serve is anything but healthy. I would not equate that with keeping the money when the cashier makes a mistake or trying to use an expired coupon.
I got bigger fish to fry... Simple as this, if it's wrong, don't do it... Just as wrong is to rape, cheat on your wife, or murder someone (even for the right reasons). Nevertheless, if becomes a matter of priority, start by stop the raping, then move to the candy stuff...
I do go ahead and let the movies rip me off and get the kids popcorn but I buy the boxes of candy at the drug store for $1. I don't buy myself anything, it already costs about $100 for our family to see one movie only buying the kids pocorn and a small drink, the snacks cost more than the tickets. If the prices were more reasonable they would make more money. I never thought of it as being dishonest, bringing the candy, but I see your point, even though I think they are wrong to charge 5 times more than the drugstore for the same thing, if the door says no outside food or drink I guess I am in the wrong after all. Darn it! That happens too often! LOL Thanks so much for your blog, it is so helpful and fun!
Good post Kristen- as I read it I knew it would be a hot topic.
I made a comment earlier that I don't patronize movie theaters, just because I'm not that into movies, but I feel it's kind of like going out to eat and not tipping. If you can't afford to tip you can't afford to go to a restaurant. If your movie experiance isn't complete w/o snacks and you can't afford consession stand prices then you can't afford to go to the movies, that is if the theater has a no outside food rule. Don't go or don't eat.
I am a retail manager and our company's policy is to terminate anybody with a cash shortage of 20 Dollars or more. You also get fired for 2 shortages of lesser amounts. You are allowed to be up to 5 Dollars short without repercussions. Think about that when You keep any erroneous change!
Great posts. Adorable older photos too. I have to make tough decisions too. When do you go to far? This past week a hard working man left behind $200 worth of groceries. Yes I could have used them and do need them but, they were his. What would Jesus do? I walked right up to him and said he forgot them. He was shocked and thanked me with all his heart. He was tired from a hard days work. I could not cheat him. It was fancy stuff and tempting but, Jesus in my mind said no.
While I would never fudge on my taxes, use an expired coupon, etc., I have been guilty of sneaking in my own snacks to the theater. But after reading this post and the comments, I think I agree with Kristen and will abstain from bringing in snacks from now on. Just because I don't agree with the high prices doesn't mean that I shouldn't obey them.
I would like to make a comment to what a couple people have said about bringing in snacks that were seen by employees but weren't asked to get rid of them. As a person who doesn't like confrontation, if I was a movie employee who saw someone openly bring in snacks, I would be hesitant to say something, just because it's against my nature. And then I would be forced to either confront the person or go against the rules of my employer. By doing this, you're making someone else complicit in your act, whether they want to be or not. If you think your theater will allow outside snacks, just ask. Don't force a teenager to make you obey the rules.
I have sometimes taken candy and even bottles of soda into a theatre to try to save money. The thing is, I seem to buy more than I would at the theatre so I'm not saving money and I don't need more candy. Add to that, it requires a little planning, so all in all it's just easier to buy what I need at the theatre.
I really enjoyed and agreed with the post. Something I've found myself thinking about regarding the general outrage over the candy mark-up is that so many things are marked up when you buy them new (or eat them at a restaurant). Our family loves books, so we have a ton of them--but I almost never pay full-price for them. Most children's books cost between 6 and 25 dollars; I buy them for 79 cents at Goodwill. A lemon-drop at a bar costs between 4 and 8 dollars; you can buy the ingredients for lemon-drops for around $30 and make multiple ones at home. Many (MANY) restaurant meals can be made for way less than half of what we pay for them at the restaurant. I'm not saying it's wrong to pay inflated prices for nice food or a good drink or a book that will be read multiple times--but I AM saying that inflated prices are everywhere. The candy mark-up is obvious because candy is normally only around a dollar.
One of my students works for a locally owned theater. He told the class that on some movies, the theater makes no money because the movie studios demand such a high price for the movie. Many times, the theater makes very little money per ticket. Therefore, the only thing that is keeping the movie theater in business, to pay for all the staff, facility costs and a bit of profit is the concession sales. When you factor in the number of people who do not by concessions, now you know why they are so expensive.
Hi!
I don't want to be rude , but dont you think that acepting free clothes at your church "free garage sale" is dishonest?. I mean you are a two income family, that takes vacations, eats well, and have a nice home; meanwhile you and your family is receiving stuff that was donated for needy families...
You advertise your friend Erin that is selling Tshirts to make money for an adoption, but nonetheless you accept 3 (?) Tshirts as a gift... how come?
Oh, no. The free garage sale our family of churches holds always, always provides plenty for church members and for the people in the surrounding community as well. It's sort of like how Goodwill has SO much stuff, I have no worries about shopping there because there is more than enough for everyone. 🙂
Erin offered to send me the t-shirts, and in return, I gave her free exposure to my readership. It's quite a common thing for bloggers to do...I've given free copies of my ebook to a number of other bloggers so that they can try it out and share it with their readers.
3 t-shirts was all her idea...I thought one would have been more than sufficient. 🙂
I have to say, that while I'm not religious and I've definately brought in food to a theater before, I totally get what you're saying here. If people think the prices are unreasonable at a theater that does not allow for outside food/drink, they could either 1) not eat during a movie or 2) not frequent the theater. If going to the movies is so price inhibitive, don't go. Rent the movie and have a movie date at home instead.
But don't bring in outside food or drink to a private establishment and act like you have some greater justification for doing something that is essentially trying to get around the system. If employees don't say anything, it's probably because they see it all the time and don't have the energy to hassel people about it.
I've worked in multiple retail situations and it's amazing how dishonest some people will be. When I was working at a kitchen store, a women brought back an expensive pan that she clearly had left on hot burner dry and ruined the bottom, and tried to return it for a refund because "something was wrong with it."
I also worked at Starbucks for a time and people would actually think of schemes to get free coffees. There were two girls that would use a lie that the coffee they bought in the morning tasted horrible and they didn't have time to return, so could they come back in the evening and get a replacement? They knew as employees we couldn't say "No," and it was so infuriating to personally know better. Why do some people feel like are entitled to a free handout?
Well Kristen, I disagree:
1st, when the 'free garage sale" at the churches end, all the 'leftovers" are donated to a charity, that uses the proceeds to help people. So, wherever you and your family takes home, is something less for the needy people at your church or for a charity to benefit.
2nd, Even if your friend Erin gave you the Tshirt in exchange for free exposure
(that doesn't cost you anything) how you can accept it? Considering she is a fellow christian, trying to raise money to adopt an orfan. Shame on you!
I'm sorry you feel that way, but please know that my friend Erin doesn't share your thoughts. 🙂
Regarding your first thought, using that line of argumentation, one could say that taking hand-me-downs is unethical because someone could have donated them instead of giving them to me. The truth of the matter is that charity shops generally have more than enough donations (mine regularly has to weed through and get rid of stuff to make room for new donations). But of course, if you would feel uncomfortable receiving free clothes from anyone, I would never encourage you to do it.
Hey Molly,
Just to clear the air a bit. Kristen and I have known each other for a long time. When I approached her about the adoption and the shirts, she jumped right on board and wanted to help before I mentioned sending the shirts to her. I chose to send them to her because I thought it would be good for her readers to see my shirts on her little ones. I guess you can call that marketing. Anyways, she sent me the sizes of her three kids and said to send one from whatever I had the most of in stock. I chose to send three and I'm so glad because the pics just ended up so cute. I've already had business directly from her post, so I'm very grateful for all her help in bringing our little one home. Kristen is the sweetest, and her motives were purely to help our family out.
About those of you who buy the extended warranties with accidental protection for you electronics and break them purposely the month the warranty is due. Hey, you are not breaking any rules, but are you really being honest?
I would certainly never condone that kind of thing. I think that's patently dishonest.
Well I went to the movies and wished I had bought candy at the drugstore because our theatre has no rules about bringing outside food so I am super happy and lucky! No more getting ripped off or having to be sneaky either! I think it is fine about the church clothes, I work at a soup kitchen once a month and they always give me and the other workers some food to take home, after everyone who has come has eaten, taken left overs, and gotten groceries. It would be pitched if we didn't get it so I don't feel it is always wrong to get something for free. Plus the tshirts being on the blog brings alot of attention to your friend so that is awesome, I hope it happens fast for them, sweet family!
This is not meant as a criticism of the soup kitchen or taking the leftover food home, or anything like that. As a person who is intensely concerned with poverty in our nation, I would be very sure that the food that was leftover could not be distributed to others. I am thinking specifically of those who live on the streets.
Just as an example, my husband and I have committed recently to *always* taking sandwiches with us when we go downtown, along with a cooler of water. At any overpass, exit, corner - or whatever - where someone stands with a sign asking for money (or food), we give them sandwiches/water. MOST of the time, they are so intensely thankful. So, in regards to leftover food, I would wonder if the bread could be used for sandwiches, if the leftover meats could be used in sandwiches - could the leftover fruit be added to the "meals" that we hand out from our car... stuff like that.
There is *always* someone who needs food more than I do, and in good conscience, I can't accept "free" food, because we make more than enough money to supply all of our needs. There are way too many people who need help.
There are some pretty specific rules about what can be given out and donated, unfortunately. I'm sure that to a degree it varies region by region, but a lot of times, perfectly good food is not allowed to be donated (for instance, food from a buffet cannot be donated unless it was dished up by caterers and not by diners).
If the food was going to hit the garbage can, I see nothing wrong with taking it. Better to eat it than to waste it. I think taking the food and sharing it with homeless people would be a great idea too, though...the rules that bind corporations don't bind individuals.
I think I understand what you mean, Kristen. What I am saying is - if there is leftover food from a soup kitchen. And there are volunteers who can *easily afford* to feed their own families. Should those folks take the food home to save on their own grocery bills, or should it be in turn given to a person who will make sure it is distributed out even further into the community?
For me, the ethical decision would be to allow the person who is going to continue to distribute the food to their community, versus the person who is simply taking it to reduce their own grocery bill... again - this is assuming that the person can *easily afford* to feed their family. If it is a struggling family, then certainly - they should feel no ethical concerns with taking the leftover food.
Oh it was over 98 degrees here and we are talking leftover hotdogs and potato salad and not a big amount either, I cannot imagine wandering around town trying to find someone to give it to, not without a block of ice and a cooler anyway. Plus the homeless come to the soup kitchen in our area, that is why I volunteer, for them. We would never be offered or accept canned goods or things that can be used in a future meal. I think the soup kitchen managers appreciate our cooking and cleaning and want us to get a lunch too, I feel good about the whole thing, it is such a blessing to be a part of it.
Katherine, thank you - and I would sincerely like to apologize for being overly zealous. Indeed, the foods you mentioned would be hard to distribute outside of the soup kitchen. I was thinking more about staples like bread, cheese, meat - sandwich stuff. And that is ONLY because the vision that my husband and I have taken on recently. It is my own tunnel vision that is the issue here. Not you 🙂
Just one comment though - people who are sitting on the side of the road, needing food (and fast) - cannot really use canned food. In the first place, they probably don't have a can opener, not to mention pots/pans or a stove to heat canned foods on. People who are truly homeless and *living on the streets* need food that is non perishable, that they can easily eat. Canned goods do not help - I hope that no one hands a homeless kid on the side of the road a can of tuna. Not helpful.
We use all the canned food donations to cook with at the soup kitchen and many of the homeless in our town come and eat breakfast, lunch, and then get to take home a bag of groceries. Mon thru Fri they can get all 3 meals if they want and sometimes we do a Sat and holidays of course. The Christian Mission up the road has alot of canned goods and other non perishables for people who have homes and we have meals for the elderly that does bring premade food and sandwiches which we can give out to someone outside and they could eat it right there.
Thoughts - Here's my thing. The only reason the movie theater doesn't want you to bring candy in is because they plan on raking you through the coals themselves. If you take in your own, they can't screw you. So screw them. CD's and DVD's? Someone actually spent a lot of time creating and working on a movie, music, etc. And I feel like they charge a pretty fair price for the most part. That is their work, so they should be paid. So I don't download. If they want to become like the movie theater and start charging THOSE prices, like $100 a movie ticket? Yes, I will just download. People need to be fair. Movie theaters are not even close to fair on snack prices, especially after you pay for a ticket.