What do you think about prenuptial agreements?
I was listening to an episode of the How to Money podcast recently, and one of the topics in a Friday Flight episode was...prenuptial agreements.
I thought, "Ooh, that would be an interesting thing to discuss with the Commentariat!"
So, let's do it. 😉 I'll tell you what I think, and then you can do the same.
(Just in case anyone doesn't know what a prenup is, here's a good explanation.)
Then: I did not have a prenup
Back in 1997, when I got married, I was a mere 19 years old, and my worldly assets were quite unimpressive.
I did own a car outright, and I had a decent savings account for being 19, but it's not like I brought a whole lotta wealth into the marriage, and neither did he.
No one would have thought, "Ooh, Kristen needs to protect her 1993 Dodge Shadow with a prenup!"
Also, at the time, I was staunchly anti-prenup. I would have told you that signing a prenup was just planning for divorce, and OF COURSE I was not going to get divorced!
(Narrator: Ummmm.....)
Now: I would get a prenup
(Do not get excited here: I have no current marriage plans because I AM TOO FREAKING BUSY to even have a relationship. 😉 )
Past Kristen would be horrified at Current Kristen, but yes, if I get married again, I will work out a prenup with New Husband.
Why?
1. I have assets
I may have been pretty penniless in 1997, but in any second marriage, I will be bringing assets. That's quite a different situation from before, when pretty much all of my assets were acquired during the marriage, and were thus marital property.
2. You can't NOT have a prenup
As Joel pointed out on the podcast, when we get married here in the U.S., we have a default prenuptial agreement. It's just whatever your state's rules are about property and custody arrangements in the event of a divorce.
So, you can't really not have a prenuptual; it's really more a matter of whether you want the state to decide the terms or if you want to decide the terms.
It's kind of like choosing not to have a will; at that point, the state will handle your affairs according to their rules. It's a will by default.
And in the same way, if you get married without a prenup, you just have the default prenup.
3. I think a prenup could be made with love and generosity.
When a divorce happens, it is not a great time to try to split things with love and generosity. I'd rather make those decisions with a soft heart.
And I think that if my prospective partner and I are both coming into this with open hearts and good intentions, the process of a prenup is not going to break us. If he can't handle a prenup process, he's not the one for me.
I'm gonna be kind and reasonable about it, and anyone I choose to marry is also going to need to match my kind and reasonable energy. 😉
(Also: I'm assuming he will be arriving with assets, and I will be happy to legally assure him that I am not out for his money. I do not need a relationship for money; I pay my bills on my own!)
4. A divorce without a prenup is wildly expensive.
I paid over $36,000 in legal fees to get divorced, and that was without going to court. It would have been much cheaper to go through the legal process of drawing up a prenup.
Also, a divorce without a prenup can take forever. Mine took two years, and by the time everything was finally ALL untangled and separated, it was closer to two and a half years.
5. Sometimes, divorces are a sad necessity
I was a poster child for someone who was not going to get divorced, but hello, here I am. Honestly, I don't think many people get married thinking that they will get divorced, but look how many end up here.
Also, sometimes divorces are not up to you; your spouse could choose to leave. So, regardless of how committed you are, I still think it's wise to have a prenup in place.
A friend of mine pointed out that you buy fire insurance even though you do not plan to have a fire at your house (and even though you will actively try to prevent a fire at your house!)
I still will take a marriage seriously, with a deep level of commitment. But I now know things can happen that are out of your control, that a marriage can become untenable, and that it's wise to be prepared.
Related: I will still consider combining finances
On a practical, day-to-day level, I would be happy to have joint bank accounts and a shared budget. I won't be approaching a marriage with the idea that we'll be living separate lives; the prenup will just exist to be used in the event the marriage ends.
Also, in writing the prenup, I would be mainly focused on separating and protecting the assets we bring into the marriage; for assets gained during the marriage, I'd want to agree to split those evenly in the event of a divorce.
Tell me what you think!
If you had to do it over again, would you get a prenup? If you get married in the future, will you sign one?
P.S. I want everyone to feel ok sharing their views about prenups, either for or against, so just keep that in mind as you share about whatever your perspective is. 🙂
I like the explanation that the state already decides, so having a prenup gives you control, especially when you are still in love and plan to stay together.
Yes! When you think about it from that angle, it really takes away the “but you’re just planning for divorce!” shame. There’s always a “plan for divorce”…it’s just a matter of whether you make it or the government does.
In a similar boat as you, Kristen. I would get a prenup if I remarried, especially with having children still, one of whom is protected. My state laws required that I give my ex a portion of the pension for the job I got following filing for divorce.
Younger me brought consequential assets into marriage that were then lost. That said, younger me wouldn’t have known how to write a prenup to protect those assets.
Ugh, that is a VERY frustrating law regarding the pension!
And yes, the children are a factor too even as adults. I would want to reassure my children that my assets won’t be funneled away from them and I would also want to offer that reassurance to any children he already had too.
In Canada, the splitting of pensions in a divorce is very common.
Hold on, the job you got after the divorce?? Why the heck would he have a right to a portion of your pension? That's crazy.
I think a prenup is a great idea, esp. as people are marrying older now and have more time to work and save.
Because the time between filling and financial mediation was two years so he claimed (and the state agreed) that he was entitled to the marital portion of that pension. Took another year to get a divorce decree. And I may walk away with nothing because he is not yet vested in his employment pension. And has already made plans to leave that job 4 years shy of being vested.
Kaitlin,
Wow, that just SUCKS. I'm so sorry.
that is so awful. i hope i never live in your state. no one should even visit until they change that law.
I was wondering the same thing, mbmom11, about a pension from the job taken AFTER the divorce. Why would anyone have a right to your assets acquired after the fact? Wow. I feel for Kaitlin. I was divorced some years ago and luckily, that wasn't a problem for me.
Be no different than a child born while still married. Your soon to be ex is the father of the child in the eyes of the law.
And I take it she was married a number of years - social security considers 10 years (and this is something you might want to check out NOW rather than later Kirsten - your spousal benefit from your ex will be likely less than you'd expect).
I can see how pre-nups seem a little cold, but I think it makes financial sense for all the reasons you listed. It will save a lot of stress and arguments later if you decide this prior to marriage - and both people are hopefully in a more positive and generous state of mind! During a divorce or separation I imagine spouses are unhappier and probably less objective.
Not only a prenup but a trust or a will should be required. Splitting assets due to a divorce or a death can be costly and tear families apart. I have seen that happen.
I have too but a will won't do much good - you can always make a new will and it tosses the old one out. A trust would have to be an irrevocable trust to help the situation.
Great points Kristen. We had a will drawn up when I was pregnant and learned of the crazy way the state would divide assets in the case of death.
I don't think I would marry again if something happened to my spouse (I'm currently 67-1/2 and have been married for 37 years) but if I were to find myself in that position you have convinced me that a prenup is a good idea.
K D, I'm with you in your second paragraph: I'd get a prenup if I were to remarry. But I'm 70 and already widowed, and I'm 99.44% sure that I will never remarry. For one thing, my late DH was the love of my life, and it wouldn't be fair to anyone else to compare him with the anyone else.
For another--and for general amusement--I had the following exchange with my neighbor on the other side of NDN1, who has indicated more than once that he thinks I ought to be dating: "Every guy I know is either married/partnered, gay, or too weird for words." He said, "What about me?" I replied, "You're all three." It's true. 😛
I appreciate the specificity of the odds about your remarriage. Hehe.
Ivory soap certainty!
This made me laugh. My widowed mom (84) always says "no way...old men are only looking for a nurse or a purse." LOL
you have the best way to turn a phrase. i love your comments here. i hope you have a companion worthy of you. animal or human.
i think that is from ivory soap commercials.
I don't see myself getting married again, but if I did I would absolutely have a prenup. I wish I'd done one the first time. I would do finances the way I did in my first marriage. We had yours, mine and ours. All of the household bills came out of ours and within reason we could spend however we wanted out of our individual accounts.
We will be getting married next year, and we are definitely getting a prenuptial agreement done! We've discussed it since the beginning of our relationship ( over 10 years ago). He's divorced, and we both own our homes outright, plus pension plans and savings. We have both worked hard to get to the place we are now, and can live comfortably on our individual incomes. We will have it set up so that once we are married, anything we build together would be divided equally. But what we have before, remains ours. We both have a single child ( they're adults). Each child will be given their parents home in our wills. We share expenses now, For us, this is the best route to go.
Sam, what you've described is exactly what I would do if my current marriage ended and I ever married again.
What are you going to do with the houses while you're still living?
We will live in my house, his child will continue to live in his. We are looking at setting up trusts for the homes too, or paying the fee to sign his house over to his child.
Oh you may not want to sign over his house to his child (presume you are in US). As it stands today, the kid would get a step up cost basis in the event of his father's death.
I would (and was willing to) sign a prenuptial agreement. That being said, I did not sign a prenup agreement with either my first, or second (current) marriage.
Like Kristen, I married my first husband when I was relatively young (21), fresh out of college with negligible assets/no debts. He was about the same, maybe a small bit of debt. A prenup seemed a waste of $$ for two people who had very little $$. Unfortunately, after13 years, the marriage ended. Despite having young children and a lot of combined assets, I was fortunate to be able to obtain a divorce very inexpensively ($200ish dollars for court costs and then I had to pay to refinance the house to get his name off the loan/title). It helps when everyone agrees and lawyers aren't needed. I did all the paperwork myself. This relatively "easy" divorce was probably why I was open to NOT signing a prenup when I remarried.
When I remarried, we seriously considered a prenuptial agreement. He didn't have such an easy time of separating assets when he divorced. He also experienced a divorce where the former spouse would not honor court ordered actions (such as repayments/returned assets) without multiple trips back to court. I was absolutely willing to sign one. We were both older with considerable assets and had a similar net worth. In the end, we determined to not get a prenup because:
1. We keep our $$/assets completely separate. With a blended family and different ideas on how to handle our wills, this just makes sense for us.
2. We have similar spending/saving habits (which positively impact our finances). Given our more "advanced" age, I was less concerned about that changing in the future.
3. Our net worth was VERY similar (almost eerily similar). We also both planned to continue working; so the net work was likely to increase at a similar rate.
4. I was not seriously impacted [financially] from my divorce.
If any of the above was NOT true, I would have absolutely insisted on an prenuptial agreement.
Interesting that you posted about this, Kristen. Just last week, my step daughter (who is engaged) asked us about prenuptial agreements. Both her father and I highly encouraged her to get one. I think I'll show her this post.
I have a cohabitational agreement with my partner. We are in our 40s, and have both been through divorce in the past.
While the process doesn't feel very "warm", we both knew it was a necessity.
One of the reasons is to protect me by stating that I have no financial responsibility for his children, in the event that his ex wants him to pay more child support based on our household income (and not just his alone). It sounds cold, but it's for practical purposes.
The beautiful side of a cohab/prenup is that it reminds us that we CHOOSE to be with each other. Neither of us is "stuck", there is no financial reason to stay. Just love. ♡
I love this, Natalie. So smart and lovely.
Thank you, Beth 🙂
We got married at 22. He owned a 12 year old Toyota Camry, I had nothing. so I guess I was marrying up. We did not have a prenup and I don’t regret not having one.
I understand the argument against them. If you’re committed, commit. One of my younger coworkers had a new friend spend the night in a romantic capacity and she left for work before he got up in the morning, so she left him her key. All my coworkers were horrified. I was like, um, if you trusted him enough to get naked with him, how is the key a big deal? If I trust you enough to marry, why is my bank account a big deal? As my grandma used to say, before you get married, keep both eyes open. After you get married, close one eye.
BUT I would definitely advise anyone getting married to get a prenup, for all the reasons you so eloquently stated. This goes times infinity if you are coming into a marriage with kids!
In this same vein, everyone with kids should have a will! If for nothing else, then to appoint potential guardians. Nobody is planning to die, but it does happen.
So, given the Camry situation, I guess we could say you married into money. 😉
Totally. Forgot to say about the will thing. We recently updated ours since our lives have really altered since we did the first ones, but we always had a will and it's always with each other and our children as beneficiaries.
If by some twist of fate I ever were to remarry, my children (and any grandchildren!) would always, always be my priority. My estate is likely to be preeeetttty modest lol, but the point is that these are my children and my own flesh and blood. Of course, a husband or partner I left behind would not be left stranded, but I would expect them to do the same, to provide mostly for their own offspring and family. I think it's different if there are not going to be children from a marriage.
@Tarynkay, your G’ma sounds brilliant and practical! Your words to your co-worker sound just as well grounded as your G’ma’s approach. I find it shocking how casually people will invite strangers into their beds.
I also do not have a prenup. And got married in 1989 so what a surprise LOL. I would counsel my kids to draw one up though without question not because I think they're making bad choices but because life is strange and all your points are exactly right. Making those decisions with a soft heart is such a good way to put it and I am stealing it to have those conversations! I will say that *I* cannot imagine being married and having completely separate finances. They don't have to be completely combined but completely separate would feel too separate for me - no judgment to others just how I feel.
I am all in favour of pre-nups. Where I live, they are not legally binding, though they are taken into consideration by the courts. Where I got married (I returned to my home country for my wedding, but we lived where we live now) an ''ANC with accrual" was pretty standard, which is what you are talking about when you say that you'd want to ring fence assets you brought into the marriage but split fairly anything accrued during the marriage.
Anyway, we did not end up getting one, because the big asset either of us had (me, it was my flat) was purchased well before the marriage and would not be considered wholly marital property until the date cohabitation started... and thus, were we to have divorced, my inheritance from my granny would not have entered into the thing, though of course his contributions, quite fairly and reasonably, would have.
Anyway, it's now been 21 years and 2 more houses and the flat got sold and inter-continental moves and 3 kids and... and ... BUT I am all in favour of financial clarity and establishing basic ground rules before it all gets messy.
@Caro, “financial clarity” … exactly.
Just having the conversations about what assets (and debts) one has, even without going all the way to a legal pre-nup, is important.
Never co-mingle inherited money. My husband chose to do so and I've kept a separate total these past 13+ years. I do not plan to co-mingle if I inherit from my surviving parent.
While married close to 45 years, I'd be hard pressed to even think about divorce. Besides having matching funds from employers as well as some pension money, I have a higher risk tolerance (not talking gambling) and think like Warren Buffet. It would easily cost me close to 7 figures if I got divorced. And it would certainly change my plans on being semi-retired/retired.
I agree with you completely, especially on the idea that civil marriage is a contract anyway, so you should really know the terms and adjust them to your personal circumstances.
In a way, I think being in a religious minority made this clearer to me. My own wedding and decision to get married was largely through a Jewish religious and cultural lens; what happened with the state didn't feel like it was part of that. And because of covid, the two didn't happen at the same time, anyway!
When I got married, my husband and I had a very similar amount of money all told, and neither of us had an asset worth protecting (e.g. a house or inheritance.) So no prenup, ultimately, but it was something we talked about.
Do you have a katubah?
Sure do! So the idea of marriage being a contract wasn't really new.
Like many of you, 30 years ago in our 20s, neither my husband nor I had any real assets to speak of. If I ever married again, I would absolutely get a prenup and would encourage my daughters to do the same.
One thing I'd add is that it seems important to have a prenup drawn up by an experienced attorney in your state who understands that state's laws around divorce and prenups. From some unfortunate stories I've heard, this is not the place to go as inexpensive as possible. It could cost you much more later if it turns out your prenup doesn't hold up like you thought it would. Even if it costs a few thousand dollars, it would still be less expensive than most divorces, I imagine.
That would be MUCH less expensive than my divorce for sure! 😉
This would actually be a great wedding present for kids if they get married.
I didn't get one when DH & I got married, and in hindsight, I probably should have protected myself more. We are very happily married, but at the time, I should have taken the steps to reduce any potential future friction. We are in very good shape financially at this point, and I would be happy with the recommended split (we are in a community property state), regardless.
Great analogy about the fire insurance. I think that says it all!
Kristin, I am curious why your divorce cost $36,000? None of my business, but I am shocked! Did he contest everything? As I recall, you left the home and basically took nothing.
I have been married 60 years now, so I will never remarry if my husband dies before me. But, after reading all the comments, I think it is wise for people considering marriage these days to get a prenup. Laws, lawyers, and courts are certainly different these days.
The reason most young people never get one is that they enter the marriage with basically nothing but love, as we did 🙂
Largely, fees paid to my lawyer. If you have a cooperative, responsive spouse, it can be done quickly and cheaply. If you do not, well, a lot more legal proceedings need to happen, and every legal proceeding entails large lawyer bills. Sigh.
It was worth every penny to me, but it did NOT need to be this expensive.
There's an old joke about that:
Why is divorce so expensive?
Because it's worth it.
Signed,
Former Divorce Lawyer about to get divorced 😃
I think it’s a good idea, though we do not have one.
I married at age 37. I had worked in a lower wage science research job after graduating college, returned to get a graduate degree (finishing at age 31). My salary was very good in my professional career, but between 31 and our engagement I focused almost too heavily on debt payoff (my grad school loans, car payment) that other than my 401k I really didn’t have much in assets.
However in your current situation, and others who share it, having a prenup seems absolutely relevant
I got married when I was very young like you, Kristen, so there was really nothing to pre-nup. I divorced after 7 years and we really had nothing but a house (that was under water) as we were throwing everything at his student loans debt.
My current husband and I built our assets together with a lot of hard work and sacrifice. If for any reason I wouldn't be with him and got remarried in the future, I would definitely get a pre-nup. When I was younger and would go dancing with friends we'd always have taxi money to get home. I look at pre-nups the same way now: plan ahead so you don't have to scramble for a solution in the moment.
This is well thought out. I can't imagine having to decide this, being 73 and married going on 46 years. But I did tell my husband yesterday I'm sure he married me for my money. His reply was yes, when he saw that lime green Ford Pinto I was driving, he knew he was really coming into something profitable!
When I was in elementary school we were in a carpool with a mom who had a Ford Pinto. Five of us crammed in that car 😂
Kind of off the subject but my mother had a 1968 Volkswagen Bug, and we at one point had 3 people in the front, 3 people in the back seat, and yours truly in the 'luggage area' in the back (not the trunk, thank goodness!!)
I got married later, in my 30s, and had assets. I didn’t have a prenup because, like you, I felt that divorce was unlikely. Unlike you, I had more life experience to come to that conclusion. Also, it was a first marriage for both of us and there were no kids being brought along, so neither of us was jaded and we had no one to protect but ourselves. So far, so good!
If, heaven forbid, I found myself single again, I’d want a prenup because I’d want to protect my assets for my children’s sakes.
My SIL ended up divorced, which she thought would never happen, and which the rest of us saw coming from miles away. Her ex-husband outmaneuvered her and ripped her off, etc. It was terrible to watch. Part of the problem is that she still won’t admit that she married a person with such poor character. From this, I realize that love really is blind, and maybe a prenup is a good idea for this reason.
It’s unclear how much a pre-nup protects future assets? Why are they necessary for two 24 year olds with no assets?
I understand you can’t make custody decisions beforehand? (Before kids are even conceived)
Yes, I’d get one if I remarried, but I’m closer to 50 now with a house.
Prenups can definitely protect future assets! If one person stays home and the other works, how are the investments and the employed's pension plan split up? What if one inherits something valuable? What if one co-signs a loan (especially without notifying the other, which can happen even without malice) and it goes south? Or has a child out of wedlock or discovers they (presumably a man 🙂 had one they didn't know about?
I read about a couple who had a successful business. Husband wanted wife to be a stay at home mom. She agreed *only* if her name was on half the business. Don't blame her at all. All too often you read about the wife putting the husband through school/make finances work (often sacrificing herself) for his business only to be replaced by a newer model as they say.
I'm with you Kirsten - females (or males) are much better off being able to support oneself versus marrying for money.
Every time I read about a "trad wife" (meaning with child(ren)) these days it just ticks me off. One thing if you end up homeless/dirt poor but totally another thing if you have kids.
The legal system is too stacked against women trying to get reasonable child support, much less collect it. He moves home with mommy/daddy who give him a nice car, place to live etc. But he can't pay child support because he doesn't have a job.
It's very much the same concept as a will. I would totally get a prenup. I'm divorced and been single for awhile. I have an almost adult. There's some things that should go to her.
Another that people don't always think about. I have a Child Protection Plan. It has a short term and long term plan for what happens to my child, if for some reason I can't speak. Whether in an accident, a medical issue or emergency, etc. It also has listed who can't take her. She's almost 18. My parents had a will placing my brother and I in case. It's better to have it and not need it. I also have a medical will saying what I want or don't want done and about who speaks for me. This is besides a standard will about where my assets go. These should be a normal part of life.
My grandma remarried in her 60s. She's in her 80s now. They didn't get a prenup. But, there's a will in place. She owned her house. Which she bought on her own. If he survives her he can live in the house and pay for the upkeep, taxes and utilities until he passes or if he gets to where he is unable to live by himself. He's in his 90s. It will go to my uncle and she has other retirements and investments and such setup to go to specific family members.
My first marriage did not have a prenup. I walked away as the benefactor of that lapse because I ended up with almost all our assets and I made sure he paid all the cost of the divorce. Looking back it is a blessing that things went as well as they did.
With my second marriage has a prenup. We were both coming into the marriage with assets (both homeowners, retirement accounts, ets) but also my husband is a business owner. My husband set up his business before we met and he owes it to his business partners to protect that. It was a slightly uncomfortable conversation to have when we negotiated a few items but I also felt that if we couldn’t have these conversations we weren’t ready to get married. Years later and I don’t even think about our prenup.
Having a prenup isn’t planning for divorce, its acknowledging that we do not always think or act rationally if we are hurt. It really is an insurance policy. I don’t plan to be in a car accident, have my house burn down, have my house broken into… but it could happen. If you can walk away with less damage from something you didn’t plan on happening, why not have that safety net?
@Geneva, such wisdom in your words “we do not always think or act rationally if we are hurt”.
I was married for 29 years, no pre-nup. The state I lived in was an even split of assets ( unless you negotiated something different). I have since remarried and do not have a pre-nup for two reasons.
The first: my (now) husband was against it; he did not want one. The second: I was giving up 15 years of spousal support by getting married again. I had relocated and completely changed my life to get married again. I was not willing to "negotiate" the impact remarriage had on my life. Thankfully, we agreed that a prenup wasn't what we wanted to do.
I am supportive of each couple deciding what works best for their situation. If you want a prenup, get one!
Also, make sure you get a will in place. In my current state of residence, if my spouse were to die without a will, I would receive one-third of the estate. The rest would be equally divided among his children. Don't assume that all assets automatically revert to the remaining spouse after death.
Thanks for this important conversation!
I insisted that my husband pay off his credit card before we got married (1986), and he was really puzzled as to why that mattered. I told him that I didn’t believe credit card debt was a necessary part of life, that living within one’s means was the way I handled money, and that we should start out together with a blank slate in terms of debt.
I’m very thankful that Husband and I have the same approach to spending, saving, and giving. He wasn’t raised the same way as I was, but in our first year of marriage we took a class on money, and it put us on the same page while keeping us out of debt
We often joke “my house, your cabin” (or vice versa). We also joke that I married him for his cabin and he married me for my baking (I had a job as a baker when we met), and sometimes he says he married me with an eye to how good my mom looked thinking I’d age like her (sorry, I look more like Dad), and sometimes he says it was for what he expected I’d inherit (So sorry, Mom is spending down now)
It seems that a prenup is more necessary in second marriages because of offspring. I’m still unsure about first marriages with young people, although Kristen, your marriage shakes my confidence in that approach. So many marriages end in awful ways, and often the ones who make the marriage impossible are the ones who won’t let go gracefully. It defies logic.
Logic says that in divorce, you each keep what you brought into marriage and split what you got together (and yes, staying home rearing the children is worth 1/2 the spousal income and assets).
Logic and law do not always run in tandem. Plus usually the husband out-earning the wife and traditionally, men did not value women's work and do devalued it when passing the laws that govern divorce and inheritance.
"Often the ones who make the marriage impossible are the ones who won’t let go gracefully."
This, a thousand times!
I just can’t imagine her former husband being fair with a pre-nup even if he’d been willing to sign one.
Yes, yes, yes a thousand times to a prenup and also a financial structure that means either one of us can be free to leave.
I've been single for about 10 years now and in that time I've purchased myself a 90's style townhouse with a really small mortgage. I used a modest inheritance I got from my Dad's death as my deposit and my reasoning for that was firstly, what do you even buy with that kind of money, you know? And I remembered something my Dad said to me when I was breaking up with a man who was financially abusive. We were dividing our assets and he was demanding money he knew I didn't have because WE didn't have it and I told my Dad and he gave me the money I needed and said "if this is all we have to pay to get rid of him, I'll call that a bargain" and I figured my Dad would want to know no man could hold anything over me again when I invested his gift into this property.
I'm not emotionally attached to the place, but I am going to be very protective of the fact that it's mine if ever I'm trying to make a life with someone else again. But also, the right person for me will understand and support this.
I'd love to think that love is enough and there will be no break ups and no abusive or coercive behaviour but I'm also old enough to know that life doesn't always go that way.
As one who also got married at 19 years of age and divorced after almost 20 years together, I totally agree with you.
I love your perspective, too..
"Anyone I choose to marry is also going to need to match my kind and reasonable energy!"
Thanks for always being so honest!
The problem with divorces (financially! is that some people get irrationally possessive or (quite frankly) totally insane about assets acquired during the marriage. My husband and I owned two pieces of property in upstate Wisconsin valued at $5000 and $10000. Two years and over $20,000 in legal fees (and that's just my attorneys) the pieces of land were sold and proceeds were split 50-50. I would highly recommend a prenup for that kind of problem plus many others. Stay-at-home moms, while lucky to be able to stay at home, unfortunately are not contributing to retirement plans. Partners can do all kinds of things secretly (borrow money, commit fraud, etc.) that will be considered joint responsibilities under state law. Even though your heart tells you he's a wonderful guy who would never ever betray you in any way, please protect yourself.
Whew! Big heavy topic for a Monday!
A prenuptial was a requirement to staying in my parent's will, as well as my Grandmother's will.
At 21, I had a house, he did not, I had savings and investments as I had started my retirement acct when I was 15.
My husband thought it was odd, but the more it was explained to him, he got on board. It would protect him and his family.
His brother almost didn't get married because his now wife was offended.
When you break it down, even without a prenuptial agreement, marriage is a contract. A prenuptial agreement just sets up your business and banking side of your relationship and everyone knows the rules and expectations.
I am not going to rule out marriage, but I had a wonderful example of young widow hood from my Grandmother (she was 56 when widowed). She had friends and travel groups and was a joyful, happy and generous person.
My amazing grandmother did the same - she married three times, first to a jerk (with whom she had three kids and a miscarriage when he shoved her down the stairs), next to my grandfather (who already had four kids of his own, aged 14-21), and finally to a sweet man she’d known as a teenager at the ripe age of 74 (having been widowed in her 60s; they had another 12 happy years together). She had two prenups, once with each of the good men, and she sat each of her dozen grandchildren down at the appropriate time and talked them through the importance of a prenup (and reliable birth control…) “any man who is threatened by a piece of paper is not worth marrying, so consider this a useful validation of his marriageability”; finishing with a small financial contribution towards a lawyer for your prenup. She was small in stature, but she was fierce and she expected all her granddaughters (biological and otherwise) to be just as fierce. I miss her…
I've been married nearly 30 years, and neither of us came into the marriage with a ton of assets although my husband is 6 years older so did have more than me. We did not have a pre-nup. At this stage of life in the unlikely event I'm starting over, I'd want one. One of my kids has considerable assets so I'd advise him to get one. The other two are basically starting from scratch so I'm not sure how useful it might be except for perhaps potential inheritance. For all of them I'd recommend maintaining separate bank accounts, at minimum a mine/your/ours setup, and having separate credit cards so both spouses can build credit independent of each other.
I'm still healing from an unwanted divorce in 2023, after nearly 25 years of marriage.
My goal is to get remarried after I fully heal: don"t know yet what God's goal is. 😆 I will never do a prenup, and would not even date seriously a man who wants one.
I'm still healing from an unwanted divorce in 2023, after nearly 25 years of marriage.
My goal is to get remarried after I fully heal: don"t know yet what God's goal is. 😆 I will never do a prenup, and would not even date seriously a man who wants one.
Kimberly,
I’m very sorry you experienced that loss and are still healing. I experienced the same thing. A friend recently gifted me the book, “Surviving An Unwanted Divorce”. I highly recommend it as a piece of your healing process. The author is Lysa Terkeurst and she writes from her own journey of hurt and healing.
On the topic-yes to a pre-nup, especially at this point in my life.
Absolutely FOR!! Now, did I have one when I got married almost 36 years ago? Nope! However, I came into my second marriage having just got out of debt that my ex-husband left me with it took me seven years of working two job jobs to pay off so I pretty much had nothing anyway. However, that didn’t stop me from not wanting to share what income I did have with my new husband, so we sat down and talked about that before I even agreed to marry him and it has worked out fine, we do not share checking accounts, we have one joint credit card that is for household, expenditures, such as groceries, gas, etc., but other than that we each have our own money. When our daughter got married, I did insist on her getting a prenuptial agreement. She had quite a hefty sum of money in the bank that she had worked very hard and saved since getting a job when she got her degree in college and I did not want her to have any chance of losing that. At first, she didn’t want to do it but when I told her I wasn’t betting on her getting divorced, I was just planning on IF that happened she would walk away with everything she came into the marriage with. Her future in-laws didn’t like it and I did leave the final decision up to her but after talking to her financial advisor she decided to do it.
You sound like me! I had a bad experience with #1, so refused to have ANY joint accounts with #2. We went along with our own accounts and our own money until several years ago when we had wills drawn up and had everything put in both our names. But that didn't change how we worked the finances at all. We've kept doing it as of we still had no joint accounts! It works!
I got married later in life (at 45) and we did a prenup. Neither of us had been married and didn’t/don’t have kids but I was of the mind that we have insurance for everything else and we needed that too! Luckily my husband wasn’t offended at the suggestion and said it was one of the many reasons he loved and respected me 🥰❤️ Which is one of the many reasons I love, respect, and married him 😀
I have a prenuptial agreement because I have a disabled sibling and wanted to pass any inherited money to him in a way that was not allowed in my community property state. My husband was fully in support of this and it doesn’t apply to anything we earn during our marriage. I think it was easier to think about because I needed it in place whether we got divorced or not so it didn’t feel like planning for divorce.
We found, through our lawyer, that there are legal templates for common prenuptial agreement situations. Our lawyer said that these templates are also likely to stand up to legal challenges because they’re generally written to be fair to both parties. We couldn’t have done it on our own, but using a lawyer to help us through a template provided a way to get a prenup at a reasonable cost and with confidence that it’s fair, which is exactly what we wanted.
I love your comment that past Kristen would be horrified at current Kristen for thinking in this way about prenups! Same, same LOL. Current Kristen and current Amanda have both taken some hard knocks in the past couple decades, but they've made us better people. Thank goodness we both got smarter!
I agree with you. I also did not even consider a prenup when I married at 22, and I hope I never regret that decision. I am happily married and hope to continue so for the rest of my life. But if something did happen to him, I would be bringing a lot of assets and my relationships with my kids into any second marriage. I would also consider combining finances because I would be all in. However, our wills would look very different (currently, my husband's and my wills are very, very similar) and a prenup seems like a smart addition to all the other financial and legal planning a second marriage would mean.
I am 66 years old and never even dated anybody (I think watching my mother get married multiple times--4 guys 7 marriages LOL, one annulment, she married her first husband twice, she married my dad twice (well technically she married him 3 times), and then she married my stepfather--kind of turned me off on the whole idea of dating/getting engaged/getting married).
If I were to get married I probably would want to protect my assets though and a prenup is the best way to do that.
PS it was quite trippy being excused to miss school in the 7th grade so I could go watch my parents get married!!
I don’t intend to ever marry, but one of the memories I’ll cherish forever is taking the day off work to stand up for my grandmother when she married her childhood sweetheart at 74. It was an honour and a joy to see her so happy. (I also witnessed her prenup…)
First marriage at 21: no prenup. With no real assets, and not considering future possessions / inheritances, we thought there was no need. Fortunately, we split relatively amicably, saved money by using one attorney, and moved on. (Arguments came later after a few late child support payments and new dating relationships)
Second marriage at 39: We both had minor children and homes of our own, investments and retirement portfolios, so a prenup was a must.
I'm now a widow with grown children (his still consider me "Mom" as well as my own) and planning another marriage down the road. One of us in a better financial position, but a prenup will be part of the planning.
No prenuptial when I married at 27. We just celebrated 27 happy years and we're still best friends. Don't ever seeing marrying again if we are parted, but if I did I would have a prenuptial as I have far more assets now.
Yes to a prenup, particularly for anyone who is coming into a marriage with assets. I have, half jokingly, told my spouse that if I die, they should find someone else to be with if it will make them happy, but they have to get a prenup to protect my money!
I am pro-prenup.
I wrote and deleted a lot so here's the TL, DNR: you may not have assets going in but hopefully you'll have assets later. A prenup will cover what to do with assets acquired during the marriage, either by the couple (usually via work) or as gift or inheritance. If nothing else, write a prenup that's whatever your state would do. Same outcome, much faster, much less expensive.
Also do this for a will: as a starting point, have a will that's whatever would happen if you died intestate. Again, same outcome, much faster, much less expensive.
To put it differently: "hope" is not a plan.
A few more thoughts:
- I'd be unhappy if I were marrying someone who was offended I wanted a prenup or even to talk about a prenup. This is true even if we decided not to get one. I think it's really important to be able to discuss difficult matters and if you can't discuss money and assets with your finance(e), I don't it bodes well for the relationship.
- People can get a postnuptial. They're a bit more challenging but definitely are a Thing.
- If you get a prenup, the super-cautious thing is for each person to have their own lawyer. That way, one can't argue they were pressured or ill-advised into the prenup and therefore it shouldn't apply.
Agreeing on that first point; I figure it will be a good litmus test for whether this dude is a good fit for me or not!
I’ve always taken the view of “good for you but not for me” when it comes to pre-nups (27 years married here). But…the comment about buying fire insurance even though you don’t plan to have a fire and actively work to prevent one makes so much sense that I think you’ve changed my mind!
This is a tough one. I, like you, did not have a prenup. (And I had a Plymouth Duster!) It's been 44 1/2 years now -- but yes, some hard times mixed in with a lot of good. I always thought "keep what you brought into the marriage" sounds fair -- but what if you're the one who dropped your work to stay at home with the kids? Then it doesn't seem so equitable, doesn't it...
And I have heard of some bad divorces (Sarah ban Breathnach comes to mind) that would have been incredibly worse without a prenup. On the other hand, her example is also a good one about not paying attention to where your money's going -- until it's almost too late. If she had been more common sense about this, she would have come out in better shape.
There's GOT to be some way to write a prenup gracefully, without suggest you can/will definitely divorce. I just don't know how to do it. So -- if you marry, try to think ahead and set into place some guidelines. (And keep a separate account with just your name on it, with some extra -- just in case Husband dies, even.)C
My DH and I were in our late 30s when we got married, and I honestly don't remember if we discussed getting a prenup or not. We both had similar assets (each owned our own modest home, had cars and some savings, including retirement related savings). When we married, we just combined our finances, though I just read something about having separate banking accounts and a charge account in your name only (in addition to a joint account, if desired) because if your spouse passes away, any joint accounts will be frozen and you/the surviving spouse will not have access to that money right away. If anyone can verify this, please let me know. We probably SHOULD have done a pre-nup, but that ship has sailed.
Also, Kristen, you bring up a good point about the high cost of divorce without a pre-nup.....my bestie endured an awful divorce that included multiple court sessions (due to her ex being a jerk and not paying for the things he had agreed to pay for). I have no idea what the final amount was, but I know it was A LOT. I know it took at least 2 years to finalize, and her ex is still being a jerk about the annulment she filed for (she's Catholic).
I don't think I agree about a joint account being frozen if one spouse dies, at least not frozen for long if a death certificate is needed, (my Dad's took ten days or less to get the copy to show the bank.
Joint accounts can be set up as "with right of survivorship", so the surviving spouse gets the whole thing. Anyone else have knowledge of joint accounts after one person dies?
One thing to consider as you get older (and less likely to get divorced) is if something happens to one spouse, will the other spouse have access to his/her individual accounts if you didn't combine your finances? What if one person is incapacitated? Or dies? "Inheriting" your husband's personal bank accounts is lot of fuss and time, which might mean going through probate. "Having both spouses names on the account but only one uses it" would be less fuss.
I am JTWROS on a few of my dad's accounts. Legally the money is mine when he dies but I'd give my sibling half as per his wishes (after settling the estate mind you).
You can also do POD - payer on death. Dad has a few of those set up as do we. My state has TOD (transfer on death) for real estate, other states can have ladybird trusts (such as when a child cares for the remaining parent).
Heidi Louise, I can speak to the "What if one person is incapacitated?" question. DH and I maintained separate bank accounts throughout our marriage, mainly at my insistence (I'd gotten burned on having a joint account with a partner in a prior relationship). We shared bill paying on the "Whoever has more money at the moment pays" principle. 🙂
But in the period after DH was diagnosed with Alzheimer's but before he became fully incapacitated, I got my DPOA for him on file at our bank, and got my name added to his on his accounts, with his full consent. (Thank goodness his dementia never involved paranoia or aggression.) So when I did have to begin taking over his finances, this made it easier.
My spouse just recently died and our joint account was not frozen. A few weeks down the road, I went to the bank and had his name removed from the account (I did take a death certificate). At that time, I also took a new power of attorney (listing my daughter) to the bank. Our lawyer (who had drawn up the power of attorney) said it was not necessary to put anyone on my account as long as the bank had a copy of the power of attorney. Our bank also told me I could continue to use checks with his name on them till I ran out. Then when it's time to order new checks, take his name off at that time.
I didn’t when I got married 12 years ago, but it was because neither of us had any money. We both had cars and some small retirement savings, but we were on a pretty even financial footing with very little in the way of assets. We’re happily married and I don’t anticipate that changing, but if it did, I also can’t imagine either of us being willing to pay a lawyer much, so I’m sure we’d just split everything 50/50 to avoid an expensive divorce. We make similar money, we came into our relationships with similar assets, and I’m sure a court would decide on a 50/50 split for us anyway for those reasons. My partner is pretty conflict averse too - I’m by far the more hot-headed of the two of us, but I’m too frugal to be willing to pay much in lawyers fees! Even if the worst happened, I have trouble imaging either of us being willing to fight a legal battle. (Kristin, I do feel like I need to say that I’m not judging you or anyone else for fighting one! I’m a long-time reader, I know you did everything you could to salvage your marriage, and it seems like there was a lot there that you aren’t in a place to share publicly. I know I don’t actually know you, but I remember that I was worried you wouldn’t protect yourself financially when you first wrote about your divorce - I’m very glad you stood up for yourself! I’m just speaking about my husband and I specifically.)
Now that I’m older, own a house, have more retirement savings, and have a kid, I’d absolutely get a prenup if I were ever to get married again. (I don’t expect to - I’m happy with my husband - but just hypothetically.) It’s not unromantic - it’s just sensible! I think the reason most people don’t get prenups is because they don’t have any assets to protect. Once you have them, it doesn’t make sense to not think about them. Particularly if you have kids!
Oh, I didn't take offense. 🙂 All good.
And although I won't say much more here, the money spent wasn't even so much in fighting for what was mine. It was spent trying to get any forward momentum going at all! It's possible for a spouse to just sit there, unresponsive, holding the whole process up, and then it takes legal action to try to get them to inch forward.
That genuinely didn’t occur to me, and that’s good to know! I thought it was always fighting over assets or custody. Yet another reason to get a prenup!
I think, based on my convos with other divorced women, it sometimes is a last-ditch effort at maintaining control. If you don't cooperate, the divorce can't move forward, so all you have to do is...nothing. And then your spouse can't get the divorce they are wanting to get.
I married at 20, divorced 24 years later. No prenup. We came into the marriage with basically nothing, and bought a house together just prior to the wedding. When we divorced, he had a small 401k, I had a higher earning potential job. We did our own divorce ($250). I let him keep his 401k, and started my own post divorce. I bought him out of the house. He kept his truck and I kept the SUV with payments. We divided bills, and I'm not gonna lie...there was a moment where we had tarps spread out on the driveway, covered with all the tools etc. from the garage, where we struggled to fairly divide items without a major fight. Hurt definitely played into the emotional attachment to goods at that point.
He met someone who was more of a financial control freak than I was, so at least he has assets now thanks to her frugality.
I met someone a year later who was far better off financially. He mentioned early into dating that he would want a pre-nup. I was offended at the time, because I didn't see the need for one and had successfully negotiated a divorce that was inexpensive. Fast forward almost 18 years... His net worth has increased significantly, and is about 7 or 8 times what mine is. I've been able to increase my net worth considerably, in part to living with him and renting my home, plus having a great job as an RN. I no longer see it as offensive...instead, more of a practicality. He has 1 daughter, I have 2. He has worked hard to get where he is at in life, and built most of it before I came into the picture - he doesn't "owe" me any of it should we marry, and likewise, I'd want to preserve my assets for my girls down the road.
Aside from the emotional response from people seeing a pre-nup as a sign of lack of trust in the marriage, there doesn't seem to be much support in this discussion for NOT getting a pre-nup. Not having assets is one possibility, but those circumstances change over the life of the marriage.
I am reminded of Lindsey from Alaska, who wrote often of her father who gave her six?ten? gold coins when she married, so she would always have something to fall back on if something went wrong in her marriage. She wrote often about how wonderful her husband and marriage are, and I am glad she never needed them.
i had no clue that your divorce was so expensive. i am so sorry. you are too good a person to be clobbered like that. was in my 40's when i got married for the first and only time (i hope). hubby was 42. he wanted a pre-nup i said no. i think pre-nups are for celebs and i sure am not one of those. we got married anyway. here we are almost 26 years later.
someone once told me the bigger the engagement ring and the wedding the shorter the marriage. one of my favorite celebs is liza minneli. i saw her at radio city, on broadway, in the rink and chicago. i saw the original broaadway cabaret with anita gillete and bert convey, joel grey was sick that night. i even passed the church where she married david guest on the morning of her wedding. even that was exciting.
the hubby and i have tough times and great times too. as long as the good outweighs the bad i am fine. when my dad passed and i wound up in the hospital he wrote a million emails too get me out of there. they wanted to keep me 3 weeks. but he got me out in 3 days. he is a keeper.
36 years married so far, first marriage for each of us, few assets brought into the marriage, no prenup.
If my marriage should end for any reason (death being the more likely) and I were looking to get married again, YES I would want a prenup. For all the reasons you.stated, but also, importantly, to protect what will eventually go to our grown children.
This post was eye opening.
(Please read this knowing that I hope to convey encouragement. I'm not clever with words.)
When I grew up, I absorbed from “Christian culture” the idea that a prenup was almost wicked because it "prepares you for divorce."
Having watched (through the internet) how much work you put into making your marriage work AND seeing how hard the divorce process was when you accepted that you needed to leave, this completely changes my mind.
$36,000 dollars???? Many people who truly need to escape a marriage would struggle to overcome that barrier.
Good for you for persevering!
I have a cousin navigating a tricky and much needed divorce. Now I know better how to pray for her.
I thought I replied to this but: thank you. And I didn't take it as anything but encouragement!
I think that pre-nups are so smart, and one thing I've not seen mentioned, but perhaps missed, is that you can also negotiate details about what will happen for a stay-at-home parent if/when there are children. Considerations of what money will be put back by the supporting partner each year for retirement, to make up for lost work history, wages, social security, etc. As I see a friend who had never planned to be a stay at home mom navigate that with a partner who encouraged her to leave work to look after their youngest child, and now resents her for it, while also not wanting her to go back to work, it makes me super concerned for her well-being financially (in addition to emotionally, etc.). He makes enough money to support them, but also spends on unnecessary things that would really make more sense that went into her financial security. She hates feeling like she uses his money to purchase him gifts, etc. and just a million other details that you may imagine.
I never would have thought any of it was necessary as young person without experience in the world, but as I've been on the outside of marriage and family, and viewed from a distance the many twists and turns friends/family/people who share their stories - it seems like a necessary thing.
I'm curious to hear from folks who don't have children marrying someone with children and significantly more net worth and how those negotiations go with respect to the surviving spouse. I vaguely remember an advice column were the a husband with the profile of above was upset that his wife didn't seem interested in improvements to their home (solely in his name) or contributing to it. The columnist pointed out that as he had plans to leave that asset to his children, that it wouldn't make sense for her financially to invest in his home as she would have to leave as soon as something happened to him.
I'm neutral towards pre-nups. I disagree that everyone should get them; just look at your state and federal laws to see if you are happy with the status quo. In my state, we by default keep any assets we came into the marriage with, although like you, neither of us had significant assets at that time. I am however a HUGE fan of having ongoing conversations about how you'd like to handle detangling finances etc in the awful case of a divorce... It's so much better to have those conversations when things are great! As you say, with a soft heart. I had a short-lived marriage in my 20s, and our divorce was quite legally smooth because we'd already had conversations like these. It's not romantic but it is practical! But anyway, I think it's fine if anyone wants one. If I got divorced now and entered into a new marriage, I'd look into whether I'd need one to protect my assets.
I was also married at age 19 with no assets but my groom had no assets, either. I am one of the lucky ones; 59 years later we are still married to one another with substantial joint assets. I'm now too old to consider marrying again if I should loose him so I don't have to face this problem. But, I do wish our daughter had a prenup.
I'm with you - I REALLY wish our daughter had a prenup.
I am pro prenup for all the reasons you stated, it frees your mind.
But, as every other contract, it is just as worthy as the person who signed it.
I think a prenup is smart. It does not take anything away from the relationship, it's just a mature way of seeing relationships. That said, I also did not have a prenuptial agreement with current hubby (despite being a young divorcee when we meet) because, like you, I was not coming into the marriage with assets, eighter did he. If we were to separate today everything would be divided half/half.
As for joints accounts, I agree so-so. We have a joint account for all necessities, but we also each have our own accounts. We put everything in the joint account, then have a fixed amount to be transferred monthly into our personal ones and spend as we wish. We never had any issues about what the other is choosing to spend his discretionary money because it's not his/my business!
It's VERY important to teach our daughters (and sons, but it's more a woman issue when a couple separate) to have their own accounts, to get their fair share of the money, and to know exactly what is going on with the couple finances.
I'm 44 and I've never come close to being married, and I don't have children. I don't have significant liquid assets, but I've worked so, so hard to build my retirement on my own and will be able to retire in my early-mid-50s (if I so choose). I can't fathom a significant portion of my pension and other retirement benefits being slashed in the event of separation/divorce (same goes for any inheritance).
I want to protect myself and I'd want my partner to protect themselves too (especially if children or businesses are involved). Wills are also crucial to have in place, as it's quite expensive to get assets sorted out in the event your partner/spouse dies (as I've learned from experience after my father passed away).
A prenup doesn't mean you can't still combine assets/finances and support each other - I see it as more of a plan or directive that's in place, just in case. And it's also so important to have the (uncomfortable) money conversations before marriage or a domestic partnership. If my relationship can't survive the uncomfortable money conversations, we probably shouldn't move forward with merging our lives.
I like what your friend said about the state providing a default prenup. Never heard it expressed that way before.
Would I have a prenup in the future? Well........ no.
Because I've been divorced once (after 5 years and no children) and it was pretty straightforward, relatively amicable, and was finalized in 2 months and 2 weeks.
I remarried 2 years later, again without the prenup. We kept our finances separate most of that time. At first That Man was kind of insults that I refused to have ANY joint accounts. I had to explain to him several times that it had nothing to do with him, and everything to do with my ex. It worked okay for us for s LONG time. We finally put each other's names on all our accounts, cars, and the house when we had a will written several years ago, but in practice, nothing has changed. He pays his assigned bills and I pay mine. We're on year 42 so we don't anticipate anything crazy happening - LOL!
The reason I most likely wouldn't go for a prenup in the future is I doubt I will ever remarry again. I've trained two men already and I don't want to go through that ordeal again! My mother-in-law had a male friend and they did everything together as if they were married, but they went home to their separate houses at the end of the day. She said it was nice to have the house to herself! So that's what I expect to do.
I just thought of something more...
My grandfather and his second wife (both widowed) had a prenup when they married. When he DIED (in the 1980s), the prenup was mentioned in the will as being an attachment to it, but it could not be located. It had disappeared, along with nearly all the money he'd had in the joint bank accounts. The only will and the attached prenup had been kept in her lawyer's files, and we knew what happened to the prenup. So the lesson learned is if you have a prenup, keep additional copies with people who have YOUR interests at heart.
(My dad had to hire an attorney to dig through the bank's records and recover a small percentage of my grandfather's assets - all had been transferred to her two grandchildren.)
Hi Kristen, I want to start by saying I've been a reader for years, and I really enjoy your blog. I want to continue by saying that while I understand your perspective on this matter is based on your own circumstances, I think you could have elaborated a bit more to include how prenuptial agreements might affect women whose circumstances are different from yours. For instance, even though a prenup may seem promising to you now that you've now become a professional woman with assets of your own, many women all over the country and the world are still the lower-earning, non-professional and/or homemaking partners who literally NEED the financial support of the breadwinner both during and after a marriage. That is to say, I think conversations about prenups need to address the fact that they must be sure to protect the lower-earning partner in the event of divorce, not only to protect assets that were acquired prior to the marriage. I understand you would be entering your next marriage with your own assets, but that's not the case for every woman; if I was a woman without assets marrying a man with assets and he said to me, "In order for us to get married, I need you to be OK with me not sharing anything I already have with you," I'd feel hurt, left out, and like I wasn't trusted. There would need to some concessions on his part in order for me to sign it; he couldn't just say, "I keep everything I have; you get nothing." In terms of earnings during the marriage, you mentioned combining finances and splitting assets acquired during the marriage evenly. I think you could again clarify that prenups should not exist merely to protect the higher-earner while allowing the lower-earner to be thrown out onto the street or thrust into a studio apartment on the rough side of town while the higher-earning partner lives in a nice house. That would be unloving and unjust. You also mentioned not being after a man for his money. I am going to extrapolate beyond your blog to the wider sphere of the internet and say that I think some people these days (not saying this is you) are confusing women's historical and cultural expectations of a man providing for their basic needs, especially so they'll be able to have children, with women "using a man for money." Pursuing a wealthy man so that one can go on designer shopping sprees and lavish vacations is not the same thing as expecting a man to provide for the family at a reasonably basic level. I strongly hope that the thousands of times I've seen these sentiments expressed on the internet do not reflect much of the real world. This is all to say that I think conversations about women advancing in their careers, having more freedom to marry or not marry, and even acquiring enough money and professional status to where she might want to protect her own assets when entering a marriage need to be BALANCED with conversations that keep in mind women who come from poverty, who for whatever reason haven't advanced in the professional world, and who are homemakers. Not everyone is the same, and for all the feminist movement has gained (and I have considered myself a feminist since childhood), I'm seeing professional, well-educated and upper-class women neglect, dismiss, or even mock women who don't just want but NEED to depend on their husbands, which is their right. Again, I'm not saying this applies to you, but you might want to include a more balanced view of prenups in which the couple designs the document with the idea that the lower-earning partner will be sure to be protected in the event of divorce.
Just briefly, since I gotta head to work: yes, I agree that these kinds of things are nuanced and that every situation is different. I wasn't trying to write a comprehensive post on prenuptials. It's more like I was sharing my own thought process for my own situation. 🙂
When I say that a prenup should be approached with kindness and generosity, I hope that any man marrying a woman who is financial bereft would look at that with compassion and say, "No matter what happens, I want to assure you that you will be taken care of. Here's what that could look like."
And I think anyone who approaches a prenup WITHOUT an attitude of kindness and generosity is probably a person who should not be getting a prenup and should also possibly not even be getting married. 😉
Yes, if I were to remarry I would want a prenup. The reasons you stated are valid and it would make things easier in the event the marriage ended.
I would also add (if not already posted) that pre-nups can be amended. Like perhaps it came out your spouse had an affair.
I’ve never considered a prenup and knew very little about them, but you make excellent points! I would consider one after reading this.