Q&A | Septum piercing, post-lockdown, + handling teen expenses
If you have a question you want me to answer in a future Q&A post, send me an email (kristen@thefrugalgirl.com) and put Q&A in the subject line. You can also leave a question in the comments here, but I do lose track of those sometimes.
Hello, hello! I've got a new set of questions to answer, and they are an especially random lot today.
I see Lisey has a septum piercing! My teen wants one. Did it hurt a lot?!
-Reese
A septum piercing seems to be far less painful than the nostril piercing I had. Lisey didn't experience much pain at all, and it healed so much faster than my piercing did.
The septum piercing has also healed way faster than our ear cartilage piercings.
So, I would not say pain is a huge issue to consider with this one. It was a lot more like getting an ear lobe pierced, and an ear lobe is really no big deal.
What does everyone look forward to doing when quarantine is over?
-Lisa
I personally am feeling ok about being stuck at home, but I hate seeing my girls struggle. So I am most looking forward to them being able to see friends and go places. I will feel happier when they are feeling happier!
Aside from that, I am looking forward to being able to see people myself. It feels like ages since I saw my parents and siblings.
Mr. FG gets cabin fever more than I do, so I know he will be happy when he can get out and about more.
Sonia in particular is looking forward to getting her learner's permit. No licensing/permitting has been allowed for months now, and we are hoping sometime this summer maybe she can get her permit.
How do you handle teen expenses?
-multiple readers
I'll share what we've done, with the caveat that this is descriptive, not prescriptive. Your mileage may vary, and what works for us is not necessarily what will work for you.
Cell Phone
They buy their own phones if they want an upgrade over and above our hand-me-down phones.
For service, they can stay on our Ting plan, but they are responsible for paying for their data usage.
(At first, we were covering the whole bill. But we found that teens are not that motivated to curb data usage and look for WiFi if they are not the ones paying for the bill. Thus, the new policy!)
Driver's Ed
We've paid for this 100%.
Car Insurance
We split this 50/50 with our kids from the time they get licensed through college. After that, they'll need to pay for it on their own.
Cars
We have provided a used car for our kids to drive while they are in high school/college.
If the car makes it until after college graduation, they can either buy the car from us (it should be a very cheap purchase by then!) or give it back and buy their own.
College Tuition
We pay for 100% of their books and tuition for any classes taken in high school.
After that, we have some money saved for them to use for college tuition/books, and any money spent beyond that is their responsibility.
If we'd started life out with a higher income, we could have saved more for their college expenses. But alas, that was just not the case.
So, we've:
- saved what we could for them (we're still contributing each month for all four of them)
- helped them get quite a few college credits knocked out while in high school
- helped them out with a car and car insurance
- offered them free room and board here at home while they're in college
Part of me wishes we had been able to save enough put them through four years of college.
But I know that having to pay for a lot of it on their own will definitely help them to value their degree more, and it will also inspire them to be smart about their school and living choices.
(If you have to pay for your school, you do not tend to putz around, taking a bunch of classes that have nothing to do with your degree! Kind of like how you don't use as much cellular data if you have to foot the bill. 🙂 )
For instance, Lisey has studied for and taken a bunch of CLEP tests because that's a much cheaper way to get some of her basic credits.
When she finishes at the community college, she's transferring to an in-state university that has a great language program because when she saw how much out of state tuition was, she felt like the choice was clear.
And she's purposely looked for jobs that pay more than minimum wage (she bar backed for a while and now she works an automotive job) so that she can save more for college.
Mom of 4 adult kids here (ages 26, 25, 23, 21). We had one "family" cell phone when the kids were in school (yes, all the way through high school) that they used when they were out. They didn't necessarily like it then, but they all thank us now and 2 of them went back to old school flip phones after having smart phones because they didn't like the distractions. We paid for basic clothes, but if they wanted expensive things, they earned them. For college, we gave each kid 10K and they had to get scholarships or earn the rest. We did pay for books, and I helped get everything they needed for their dorms. Don't overlook smaller private schools. Our 3rd son got full tuition and only had to pay room and board. We have 3 who have Bachelor degrees and 1 still trying to figure out what he wants to do, which is just fine. We also told them we would not take out student loans, but would give them interest free loans IF we had the $. We did that for one son, and he paid us back within one year of graduation. We paid for driver ed and had a family car they shared. Didn't help them buy a car or insurance after they were out of college. We also gave a set amount for weddings (two so far, one this summer) and told them if they wanted bigger they had to pay and if they wanted small, it was a gift. My husband and I have always been frugal, and our kids don't seem to resent that. They all still love thrifting with me!
Very both loving and reasonable, Tricia!
A key sentence is: "Don’t overlook smaller private schools." That is, don't reject any school that is of interest until you get the financial aid package. At private schools, probably something like 99% of students get financial aid, some significantly, often making costs less than at a public school.
NCES, National Center for Education Statistics provides much valuable information. https://nces.ed.gov/ Schools are required to provide the data that is there.
The number of students graduating high school each year has been declining for some time, and with people choosing not to attend right away this fall, colleges are going to work very hard to make themselves attractive. Don't be afraid to ask for even small things, even: "I really like you but I am looking at several top places-- can you waive the application fee?"
Tricia and Heidi, thanks for your thoughts. My son is a junior and next year will be challenging in terms of figuring out a college plan--more so, now, with covid as part of our landscape (I don't see the problems associated with it going away soon).
These three things are not the most important things I'm missing, but they're ones that don't have good virtual substitutes.
1. Restaurant food that's hot when I eat it.
2. Travel. I've had to cancel two trips already; I'm looking forward to their replacements.
3. Going to libraries and bookstores.
I can't wait for the library and playgrounds. Our kids are 3 and the oldest turns 10 this month. One of the librarians is a retired middle school science teacher and with school being out for so long the summer reading program he puts on is really being missed
I can't wait for my daughter to see her friends. My family gave up on the whole "quarantine, stay six feet apart, wear masks 24/7" thing a long time ago and we have weekly family get-togethers. So my daughter gets to play with her cousin and let me tell you it has done wonders for her. She's not been taking this well and even asked my wife why the governor hates us so much.
I can't wait for my wife to be back to work again. She's working from home now but isn't able to work as well at home when she has a kid hanging on her the whole time. So she's been struggling.
I want to have a ton of people come over to my house for a cookout.
I want to go back into a store as a family and buy some things to upgrade my house. You can buy a lot of stuff online but it doesn't mean I always want to. For example it's really hard to judge the quality of a table and chairs from an Amazon or IKEA listing.
I heard this idea from a friend and loved it. Their daughter did a four year degree. Her parents told her the first year was her entire responsibility, the second year they would pay one third, the third year they would pay two thirds and the fourth year they would pay for entirely. I'm afraid we weren't able to pay for any of my daughter's five years of university. She worked very hard and was able to get some scholarships and grants plus she tutored and worked in her residence. In Canada federal student loans are interest free and the provincial loans have very low interest. We paid her cell phone bills and helped with living expenses as much as possible. She managed to stay entirely debt free other than her student loans.
I have one daughter in college. I pay 100% tuition with the stipulation that she lives at home. I don't have enough saved to pay tuition and room and board. One good thing about NJ is the abundance of excellent colleges in commuting distance. She started out at community college (CC) and graduated with two degrees: business admin and math. While at CC she was able to get many scholarships for academic achievement, as a result the total cost was only several thousand. I had budgeted and saved to cover higher costs. So the unspent went toward the 4 year college. I did have to purchase a better used car for the commute, which cost less than one year of room and board.
DD is now at a state college working on two STEM degrees and plans to continue to grad school. I plan to fund grad school up to the cost of the undergrad costs I am paying now. The good news is there is a lot of grad school scholarships and full rides for STEM majors.
My daughter treats the college tuition money very seriously. Quite honestly she treats it as her money and has made efforts to get scholarships. I am very fortunate that she feels this ownership.
As for COVID it has been scary in NJ and still is. DD and her friends have found ways to sit outside over 6 feet apart and visit.
My daughter will be a junior this fall. She wants to apply to many colleges. The thing is she does not know what she wants to do in the medical field. She will go out of state. She has the smarts and the motivation so she should get an all academic scholarship. I have not saved much, but most likely will pay for room and board. It is our goal to go debt free all the way. It is also very important that her degree pays very well so she can get a job and be able to start out her life on 2 feet. She just got a job at 16 and I take a third out of her check to start a Roth IRA for her. She will come to know the importance of saving as much s she can to live a debt free life and have retirement growing at a very young age. She should be able to put 15% of her income away to retirement getting out of school. She will be well ahead of the game.
We have counted on our kids getting academic scholarships to college. Schools that don't offer much of that kind of money were off the consideration list. We live in IL where in-state tuition + room and board at U of I is about 30-32k, not a bargain like some other states. 2 of my 3 kids are in college now at out of state public universities. The oldest, we pay room and board only. He got a scholarship big enough to cover tuition less the amount covered by his Stafford loan. My 2nd oldest , we pay room and board plus about $5k in tuition expenses as her scholarship didn't cover quite as much. She also takes out Stafford loans. We fund this via our 529 savings plan plus out of pocket, no loans except their Staffords. In addition, they pay for their own incidental expenses like social things, eating out, etc. They will both finish school with about $20-25k in student loans. Any graduate programs will be on their own dime.
We pay their car insurance. We have not bought them any cars as of yet. They share my hand me down 2008 minivan or use one of our cars. We are looking at providing them a used car to finish college and begin their adult lives. We used to have them pay for gas but with 3 of them sharing a car, it was always an argument, so now we pay for gas too when they are driving around town.
We buy them phones as Christmas or birthday gifts, usually a generation or 2 behind and pay for their service on our T-Mobile family plan with unlimited data for all 5 of us. If they want a phone upgrade beyond our normal every 3 years or so parameters, they would need to pay for it, but no one has wanted one that badly yet.
We share a Netflix account and a Spotify family account. We pay for some clothing, mostly as Christmas/Birthday gifts. Extras are on them. They've always had jobs and worked hard to earn money and get outstanding grades in school, so this has seemed like a good way for us to approach things. I realize that it is a luxury for them and for us that we are able to help them as much as we do. I worked part time from home while they were growing up, so I was able to add to our family coffers without paying for childcare. I went back to work full-time when we had 2 going to college and the youngest started high school, and that also helped offset the additional outlay.
Just a side note here - I grew up in Southern Illinois, and my sister and I both earned Illinois state scholarships. They were unfunded and we had to wait on the state to re-fund them. She finally got notice that her funding was available, years after she had graduated from college, paying with cash and loans. Since she was finished with college, she never got to use the scholarship money. I never got a funded notice on mine, probably because I moved out of state several years after high school. I don't know the laws now, but back then, winning a scholarship didn't necessarily mean one could attend college. I do remember the cost of IL state schools. She and I actually went out of state to small colleges for much less than an in-state school (Missouri and Kentucky.)
Susan, it sounds like you and your kids got this college thing figured out, though, great job!
Our state funding for pretty much everything is a mess! When we were touring colleges and saw what other states funded for in-state students, the contrast was just crazy. Our goal has been for our kids to finish with loans the size of a car loan and not a mortgage. If they want to, they can live at home after they graduate while they pay them down. We may also help them a bit depending on our job situation after the 3rd one is done. We have been more conservative than required, especially for the oldest, not knowing what the scholarships/job situation would look like for the younger kids. Ultimately, I feel pretty good about how we're managing it and how the kids are taking their responsibilities seriously. At this point, we're really hoping for some semblance of normalcy on their campuses this fall!
We have 3 young adults, 25, 23, 20. Oldest has MA & BA. Second has BA. Third is a senior in college. Older 2 are in career jobs. They, and we, are debt free for their education. My husband is a teacher, and we live on one salary, so we are not high earners.
Here's how it went in our house:
Each kid got a basic phone entering 9th grade. We paid for basic family plan through college.
Each kid got a car when it became necessary for them to get to college. That was different age for each one. We paid for a reliable but old car, we paid insurance through college. They paid for gas. The car became theirs after college.
All 3 took AP classes and dual enrollment (free) while in high school. All 3 went to state university. We paid tuition for oldest, she lived at home for free until moving out senior year and sharing house with 3 other girls in the worst part of town (her choice, not ours, but she was safe). Younger 2 got full ride scholarships. All 3 worked part time jobs to pay for their own gas, fun, clothes, etc. All 3 finished in 4 years by taking full, and over-full loads.
Oldest went to grad school, which she paid for by working and renting a single room in a small house shared with 2 other adults and 2 kids and one bathroom (read-cheap!). Our only expense for her was car insurance.
All 3 were told they were welcome to live at home after college, for free, if they were working full time, or looking for work full time. None took us up on that. Oldest 2 are in career jobs, with benefits. 100% self supporting. Yay. 3rd is in her last year of college.
We did not offer a lump sum for weddings. Our son is the only one married. We offered bride's family to contribute and they did ask for small amount. We paid about $1000 total-help to them, our clothes, rehearsal dinner, entertaining out of town guests. That was done with a LOT of creativity, free help from friends, and simple tastes. We will probably offer lump sums to each of the girls. One has already said she will do a picnic at the park. The other daughter (the one with expensive taste and EXPECTATIONS) has worked for a wedding caterer and is OVER the weddings that are a production. So I think she will go simple too. We have so many amazing memories from our son's wedding, so we're not cutting corners on the experience. But spending a lot doesn't always equal an increased experience.
This has worked well for our family. It's not the right way, or only way, I share it because I have found it helpful to gather ideas from parents who are in a stage ahead of the stage that I'm in!
Blessings to all of you on your parenting journeys!
Someday the bookmobile--our only source of library books without a 200-mile roundtrip drive-- will be able to operate again, I fervently hope. Probably not very soon, though. Way too hard to keep distant in what is basically an RV stuffed with books.
Ohhhhh yes... I've got a list going of all of the books I want to get once the library is open again!
My in-laws live in Hong Kong and get to come back to the States every 2 years. This summer was it. We had planned a week at a house for them, us, and my husband's sister and her family later this month. They were going to be here for my daughter's 2nd birthday. I was going to get to meet my 8 month old nephew. I've known for a long time that the trip had to be cancelled and had been handling the disappointment well... Until today. Flipping the calendar to June was hard. So I'm looking forward to when they can safely exit and return to Hong Kong so they can come and see us. And I'm hoping that whenever that is, we can coordinate all of our schedules again so we can all be together.
Also, I can't wait for my kids to hug their favorite library and Aldi employees and be able to help scan books out or scan groceries on a quiet weekday morning at the store.
We gave our teenaged daughter a seasonal clothing allowance. She quickly learned name brands are not so important after all.
Thank you, Kristen. I wish you and your kids all the best.
The sign of the return of normal to me will be to be able to use my own shopping bags! I have had to bring home more plastic crap bags in the last few months than I have in the last year. Stores in my town do not allow shoppers to bring their own for fear of contagion.
I hate them. Also, some baggers seem to think single items need their own plastic bags, whereas they will really cram stuff in to my tough cloth ones. They don't have to think while filling plastic (or paper if available), and it is kind of funny to watch them fill the not-uniform-sized cloth ones, sort of like Tetris puzzles.
You need an Aldi!
True-- The closest is Save-a-Lot. Does anyone know how it compares to Aldi on amount of stock? My local Save-a-Lot (which is also a self-bagging place) is adequate but minimal. Their store brands are fine, but without some of the special items that people have written about from Aldi, and no super-fun clearance aisle.
Aldi is better than Save-a-Lot. I prefer driving 3 miles to the Aldi rather than go to the S-a-L maybe a quarter mile away. Aldi seems to have more variety of things I want, and their prices are almost always cheaper (by maybe 20-50cents) per item.
I don’t know if this is possible for you to do, but our daughter who is doing most of the grocery shopping these days, puts all the groceries back into the cart after the clerk has scanned them (no bags). Then she packs them into large tubs when she gets to the car. We get way less plastic that way and it helps with the “cleaning and sorting” process when she gets home. I know it takes more time, but it works for us.
Thanks, Colleen-- I haven't asked at the store if we can use our own bags (or tubs) if we bag our groceries ourselves. This looks like a good system for your family!
I miss seeing family and church , going into the library and I miss not feeling like going to the grocery store is some kind of ordeal. And I want to use my reusable bags again, too!
Our teens were teens quite a while ago -- they are 37 and 34 now, but here's what we did. We signed up for Florida Prepaid Tuition, starting when they were quite young. Back then, all we could buy was tuition, but it let us pay it over time and locked the tuition rate in to the rate at time of contract. Then both kids worked hard and got a Bright Futures scholarship (which is harder to do now, I hear), one getting a 75% paid scholarship, one getting a 100% scholarship. The extra money at that time, at least, helped with fees and books - I don't know how they handle it now. The kids worked jobs through college, but had to maintain a certain amount of class hours due to their scholarships, so they couldn't earn enough to pay everything. We paid rental in apartments, because it was as cheap for them to share an apartment as it was to share a dorm room, and the dorms had three people to a single room. We had a family member in the dorm at the same school, so we knew that for a fact. If they chose a place for more than a certain amount of rent, they paid the overage. We provided used cars and insurance, they paid gas and upkeep, plus all food and utilities. We got one of the cheaper cell phone plans for them. They paid the bill if they went over data limits. They bought their own clothes and paid for their own entertainment. Both took the option of community college first, university second. One stopped with a B.A., one got an MBA through her job later, so the job paid for the MBA. We let them keep the cars and their bedroom furniture; both left home for college then moved onto their own places.
Both kids worked as assistants from when they were 13 or 14 at the dance studio where they took classes, plus both babysat. We expected them to provide their own gas when they started driving, to buy their own snacks and school lunches if they chose not to eat a packed lunch, and to pay for their own casual entertainment, like movie tickets or school game tickets.
Both are now very grateful for the fact that they graduated debt-free. My husband and I were low to moderate income earners for much of our marriage, so the prepaid tuition and scholarships were a huge help. We all feel that being responsible for some of their payments and working part time jobs was a good thing.
We live 12 miles from a California State University. My eldest graduated from there and my youngest just finished her freshman year there. We paid for 1 year in the dorms for each because I think that's a truly invaluable experience--they learn to be independent and make lifelong friends, it's convienient for on-campus jobs and late night library sessions. We saw a lot of growth in both during their year away from home. They both work(ed) as many hours as possible while attending university. We help pay for tuition and books as needed in addition to scholarships and grants, and they earn their spending money. We were able to provide a well-used car to each, and we pay gas and insurance until they graduate, neither of my kids abused this privilege.
Sadly, our youngest daughter's year was interrupted by the lock down, but she has been doing a good job of completing her freshman year classes online. The summer looms, her hopes of a job are unlikely, so we are not sure what the summer will bring. The University has already announced that all classes will be online for fall semester.
My eldest daughter is just finishing her 3rd year in medical school, another education interrupted by the Covid crisis. Clinical education has been interrupted for all 3rd and 4th year students (except some 4th year students have been permitted to move on to residencies to provide desperately needed help to hospitals that need it), and in 4th year beginning this fall they will have to stay local for clinicals and do their interviews for residencies online which is a poor substitute for seeing the places they are committing the next several years to and meeting the people responsible for the next phase of education. OTOH, she will be saving a lot of money by not having to travel all around the country for 4th year clinicals and interviews.
We help pay for her car insurance and phone. She has amassed a staggering medical school debt--nearly $400K(!!!) with the belief that she could pay it off as a doctor when she is done, but now that's not a sure thing. Terrifying times!
Our kids went through the California State University system too! It has been a great education and has taken each of them to the jobs they wanted. And they had such personal attention from so many professors. Our son had some classes of only 12 students, taught by a tenured professor with a PhD from Stanford. He also had 4 professors attend his wedding. Some awesome people!
Call me spendy but I cannot wait for someone to come babysit my kids so my husband and I can go out on a nice date to a nice restaurant. The hardest part for me about this whole lockdown has been the absence of date nights. We've done a few "dates" after our three littles are asleep, but it is decidedly NOT the same. :-/
I feel you! My wife and I got to go out just before this whole thing went down but before that we hadn't been able to. We had so many spring plans that were taken away from us.
We were not savers at all when our daughter was growing up, so needless to say, there wasn’t money for college. We borrowed from my 401K (the horrors!!) but I’m still working for the same company 15 years later and the loan has since been paid off. When she was first looking at colleges, she was looking at out-of-state or private schools and absolutely refused community college. When we told her how much she was going to be getting from us, state schools didn’t seem so bad. She was a girl scout and received a scholarship for 4 years from the state school. She wanted a car for school, so we made another deal; become an RA and we’ll buy you a car because a car was cheaper than the 3 years she had left. Since she was an RA and with the scholarship, she only had to borrow less than $2500 a semester. She left that school with very little debt. It’s grad school that she is still paying off.
We were lucky. My twin sons got their permits 2 weeks before the shutdown. They have been able to practice on roads with a lot less traffic than usual. They pay for their own data usage as well.
My older son (25) lives at home and pays room and board. We are setting aside the money for him to use as a down payment for a house or condo when he is ready, or for tuition if he wants to go back to school.
I cannot wait to have family get-togethers again. Several of us are immunocompromised so we keep our distance still. I also want to hang out with friends. My only in-person social activities the last few months have been meeting friends for walks, while wearing masks and maintaining social distancing.
I love reading how everyone has paid for teen expenses. Growing up my family didn't have much money and stopped buying clothes and extras once we were able to work part time in high school and earn our own money. No college tuition or cars for me. (And it was before cell phones!) However, during a bad spell in my twenties, my parents let me come home rent free for awhile. I will be forever grateful for that!
Social distancing is not affecting me so much since I still work outside of the house (hospital), hubby still work (at home), and the kids are back in school. But I do miss my public library immensely!! And being able to get into stores without a line-up and an interrogation, and arrows to follow. That's it. I see my friends/get my social at work (collegues). I actually enjoy the calmer rythm of life that we are in +my family and I). It's relaxing not having to think about having people over, going places, etc. Too bad this is all related to a terrible virus 🙁
Parks & Sunday School classrooms. My oldest is 8.
I have to chuckle at all the library posts, as I work at one and we are excited to re-open as well. Too quiet and lonely without everyone!
For Lisey as she going to college, one thing I found helpful was to buy books for the spring semester in December - before the 31st. She can contact her professors to see if they know what books they will use. Then when it comes time to get her taxes done, she can get her money back on her fall books and spring books in the spring rather than having to wait until the next income tax period for that spring money. I ordered mine online and just saved the orders saying I had paid for them and printed them for the tax preparer.
Also if she is looking for student work, have her apply in the library. I have worked in many an academic library and the students were always treated well and the odds are quite good she will be able to work on her homework at work - especially if she does a night shift. Plus, a perk is usually free printing if the school doesn't offer free printing.
I work at a university and (at least at my college) some student jobs include a tuition waiver (usually graduate teaching assistant and graduate research assistant, but there may be more that I don’t know about). And there are student jobs for undergrads, usually food service, that pay room and board (especially helpful for students who can’t live at home or afford an off campus place). Students won’t be making $$$ but it can help pay for college and help build/start building their job history.
This sounds like a really solid start to life as an adult!
It's very close to the approach we intend to take, and the one I wish my parents had taken with us - they ended up paying for more than I think was helpful, though I do understand why.
My dad had to work in middle and high school to help his family, usually pulling thistles farmers' fields, and tasseling corn. In college he was able to get a job working as a bike mechanic to help pay for school. My mom worked as a waitress through at least college (I'm not sure about high school). While my mom was fine with letting us find jobs as long as we also kept up our grades, it was really important to my dad that we focus all of our efforts on school and school-related activities only, even in college. I had to defy him in order to get the grading job I worked in college - in his mind, only summer (or non-academic season) internships were permissible work for a college student.
In the long run, I don't think he did us any favors - sure, we all turned out ok within about 10 years of graduation, but I think working minimum-wage service-sector jobs is an important experience for everyone. I ended up working as a barista and later as a nursing assistant after getting laid off as an engineer, and learned so much more about work ethic, time management, and budgeting from that season of my life than I ever did working as an engineer. It made me better at recognizing a good manager, better at finding internal motivation to just get things done vs. completing assignments perfectly, finding my own worth apart from the prestigious title of "engineer", and helped me learn appreciation for the work done in the service sector.