Q&A | Divorce memoirs, being too frugal, + introversion/extroversion
I recently (like 2 weeks ago) filed for divorce. Oof, it's a lot to process. I'm having such a hard time finding real stories of just normal women and how they moved on and got through this hard time. I find your positivity and honesty so helpful and inspiring. What else got you through? Any other good memoirs or blogs you could recommend?
-Kat
First off, I'm so sorry you are going through this. No one gets married thinking, "Oh, I hope one day I will get to file for divorce!" But sometimes we get to a place where divorce is the sad but obviously correct choice.
When I read your question, the main book that popped into my head was, "You Could Make This Place Beautiful".
I read that one in the summer of 2023, and oh my goodness, it made me laugh and cry and...I feel so seen and validated and understood as I read her words.
(Her book inspired this post of mine, called I Kept Us Here With Words).
You might enjoy her other book, Keep Moving, a collection of bite-sized encouragements that she wrote to herself during her divorce.
I also recently read This American Ex-Wife, but that one is not all memoir. It spends a fair amount of time dissecting the cultural ways in which marriage can often be harmful to women.
(Obviously, this is not true of every marriage. But it is true of enough of them to warrant a discussion on the topic.)
I can't think of any blogs off the top of my head that talk about divorce. I do know that Kelle Hampton of Enjoying the Small Things is going through a divorce (or maybe she is already divorced?) She doesn't really blog much anymore, but she's active on Instagram with the username @etst.
I think it helps to find some friends who are also divorced/divorcing, especially if the divorce is for the same reasons as yours. That sort of person can immediately understand what you are thinking and how you are feeling, which is a lovely experience.
I have a couple of friends like that and they are my lifeline.
I was wondering if you had some time to discuss balancing your natural tendency for frugality with purchases for health? I find myself struggling with wanting to spend little except essentials (especially when I'm working towards a goal like paying down the mortgage, while at the same time, another hefty dental and medical bill comes up) but then wearing sneakers out too much because I refuse to replace them. Do you ever struggle to find the balance yourself?
Best,
Midwest Andrea
Oh, yes, I am for sure sometimes too frugal!
Remember how I'd been using that slightly broken hair straightener for two years? And how it was pulling out some of my hair on a regular basis?
When I finally forked over the $13 for an open-box straightener from eBay, I felt pretty silly for not having made this purchase sooner. That was definitely a case of me being too frugal!
Something that has helped me in the past is to specifically set aside some money for categories that feel vaguely non-essential (you can't skip the medical bill; you can skip a shoe purchase, so technically the shoe purchase is non-essential in your mind!)
If I earmark the money for a trip or for athletic gear or for a little treat, then I somehow have a much easier time spending it. If it's all in one big pot, it's easy for me to mentally think it should all go toward strictly essential spending.
So, maybe think about a few categories you kinda sorta know you should spend some money on (shoes being one of them!) and set aside some money in a targeted savings account or an envelope, and see if that helps you feel a little better about spending.
I would love to read a post from you about introverts and extroverts and read commenters' experiences etc. I know you wrote a little bit about it in some posts. When you write about how you like to be talkative to patients, it's made me think about this topic.
Gracias,
Kristhia
I think that I am probably somewhere in between an introvert and an extrovert, so the label for me is "ambivert".
I do really love to chit-chat with people, I am super outgoing, and I can practically make small talk with a brick wall; those are traits usually associated with extroverts. I often find myself feeling energized by doing things like interacting with my classmates. And I would dislike a hospital job that lacked patient interaction.
But on the other hand, I can also be very very happy all on my own for long periods. When I have traveled by myself or been at home by myself when Zoe's been traveling, I have felt great!
As you all know, I routinely walk/hike by myself, and I also do things like going to the symphony on my own.
Conversely, if I have been around people nonstop for a while, I feel a hankering for some time where I can just quietly do whatever I want on my own.
So, I find myself vacillating between introverted and extroverted tendencies, mainly based on what I have not gotten enough of recently.
I have no experience being any other way, obviously, but I think being an ambivert is awesome. I can be happy socializing, but I don't need to be around people, so I am also happy being alone.
Alrighty, guys! Introversion/extroversion? Divorce books/blogs? Being too-frugal? Lemme hear from you.
P.S. If you have a question you'd like me to answer in a future Q&A, send it to me in an email.
There were some Dear Sugar letters around divorce. I read one shortly after separating and the first line of the response was, “wanting to leave is enough”, and that hit my insides so hard. It’s enough. It doesn’t have to be terrible for you to know that the relationship isn’t right for you anymore. Or perhaps, was never right.
Cup of Jo divorced recently and has some posts about divorce and moving on.
I also read this yesterday https://dirt.fyi/article/2024/08/the-chic-young-divorcee?utm_source=gloria.beehiiv.com&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=a-september-surprise&_bhlid=3c33b18743cab20e5fcaab651584b6ee4d379493
@Victoria, amen!
Not gonna get into a debate, but I very much disagree with the idea that wanting to leave is enough reason to break up a marriage and family.
I just want to point out that you can "want to leave" for very good reasons. One cannot assume that the wanting is necessarily something frivolous or something someone has taken lightly.
@Victoria,
absolutely. Obviously, there are complicating factors - money being one, children another - but if a person wants to leave a relationship, and this does not change over time at all, with no genuine prospect of it changing, then... ending the relationship is definitely ''allowed''.
Very few people leave long term relationships on a whim or for fun. Very, very few people want to have their income decimated, their children's lives upended, their home taken away from under their feet etc., so in my view, the actual, genuine ''wanting to'' is enough.
A lovely friend managed to get out of a truly awful marriage and their ex never, ever lost a chance to just be nasty, vindictive, controlling, petty, you-name-it, to the extent of deliberatly being late with (miniscule) child support *just* not quite late enough to be worth legally pursuing, refusing to comply with very reasonable, agreed terms blah blah, and one day he was sneering that he'd collect the kids WHEN HE WAS READY TO and not before, and she would just have to sit and wait until that moment, and she said ''true. I will have to wait. I will have to deal with (insert list here) but the thing is, after alllll of that, it is worth it all and so much more because I don't have to be married to you anymore.'' and this shut him up completely. Like a stunned fish, face just gaping. Beautiful.
@Caro, and that jerk wondered why she left him. . .?
@Kristen, then that's more than one reason.
It is hard for me to imagine a scenario in which a person does not have a reason (or two or three or twenty) for wanting to leave. We might disagree with someone's reasons, but I have to think there are always reason(s) behind a "wanting to leave" situation.
@Caro, my parents’ divorce was like that. It took 4 years and my dad was a sociopath about everything. Being poor and homeless was still better than living with him.
@Rose, wanting to leave is obviously driven by many feelings. The point I took from it at the time, and do now, was that there doesn’t need to be one giant thing, or even one or more things that you can add up to identify as a reason, or reasons. I personally spent months agonising and trying to identify the one thing that was bad enough to justify leaving, no abuse or anything, he was a really nice guy. But wanting to leave was enough.
@Rose, it doesn’t have to be a major thing. If you get to the point where you feel like you are going to scream if you ear his voice one more time, then it is probably best to up and go.
@Caro, Beautiful! Hit him where he’s most vulnerable - in his ego.
@Rose,want/need conflicting.
We all have this problem in various ways; including marriage or other relationships.
When I was considering divorce almost 30 years ago, I bought A Woman's Guide to Divorce. This was years ago, so the financial advice might be outdated, but at the time it helped me to quietly get my ducks in a row and not end up being taken advantage of financially, but being fair at the same time, which was important to me. It was so helpful that at work, two other women came to me to borrow the book. It felt like a secret exchange of information, as in "I heard you have this book". At the time I felt guilty, like I was teaching someone else to do something wrong, but that was my frame of mind at the time. I'm much happier now.
@MommaJo, secret exchange is how women have protected themselves and others for years. Telling someone else where the key to the cell is isn’t something to feel guilty about. I’m glad you’re happier now.
@Victoria,
very true. Even my mum, who adored my dad and was devastated when he died, always had a running-away fund squirrelled away, because she came from a time when unhappy, sometimes abusive marriages could be a trap, where to leave was unthinkable.
@Caro, Mom taught me that I always needed to be able to support myself because you never knew when it might be better to be on your own instead of staying because you had no choice.
@Beverly, amen sisters. Being unable to support yourself (and any child(ren)) makes you a second class citizen.
Being too frugal can make it hard to spend money when you don't have to be frugal anymore. I came into a small legacy a few years ago and thought , "Yeah!I can have some fun!" And besides paying for a big thing for the house and making donations to some special interests, I could not figure out what fun thing I would like to get/do for myself. The rest of the money was eventually put into retirement, but I really wish I could have found sonething really great and fun for me. I can't justify spending any big amount on me- it's easy to talk myself out of it.
So YMMV, but I can fritter away a little here or there on a book or sonething, but I will never be comfortable indulging myself.
And I'm an introvert who loves teaching and helping students, but then retreat home and recharge. So a little of both?
@mbmom11, My understanding is that the definition hinges on what recharges you: being with others (extrovert) or being away from others (introvert). No reason to think it has to be 100% one or the other, of course.
@mbmom11,
I once read that a lot of actors and actresses are actually introverts. Since they are taking on a role, i.e, someone else's (sometimes fictional) persona in the TV show/film/play, they can do what they do with (let's hope) success. I find that fascinating. Maybe teaching is a bit like that, even though you are "yourself" but your "teacher self"?. I am a die hard introvert, but have really enjoyed teaching classes at times in my career, too.
I'm also an ambivert. Pre-Covid, I would have definitely said I'm an introvert, but after not handling the Covid shutdowns and isolation well at all, I'd say definitely ambivert.
I definitely need and love my alone time, but I also need a certain amount of human interaction. My current work schedule is two or three days (it rotates some) working at
home and two or three days working in the office, and it's pretty close to perfect for me. Most of the time I work on projects with only a few other people, which is great for me since it kind of automatically limits how many people I have lots of interactions with.
Some weekends, I want to go out and do things, and some weekends, I just want to stay home. I have a harder time in social situations where I don't know a lot of people, and I find that I need more alone time to recharge after something like a party where I don't know most of the people.
Also, a lot of it comes down to noise for me. I hate noise, I don't function well in noisy environments, and I need more alone/quiet time after dealing with a lot of noise. I'm happier being around a larger number of people in a quiet setting than a smaller number of people in a loud setting.
@Danielle L Zecher, yes, small groups of people for sure, I didn't even like parties that much as a teenager.
I would describe myself as a fairly social introvert. I have no trouble talking to people and like spending time with friends, but if I do not get some time to myself at least once a day I feel totally drained. If I have a busy week I need one day of the weekend to recharge.
I also LOVE going away alone. I do enjoy travelling with others, but it's different. When I travel alone I can set the pace. I can decide what I want to do, when I want to eat and when I feel like going to bed, without worrying about if the other person is having a good time. I enjoy things like visiting museums or exploring parks but that can be boring for some of my friends. I often go to bed earlier on vacation because I do more during the day and don't have the pressure to stay out longer!
For me, there's a difference between being alone and being lonely. I adore solitude, and in those kinds of vacations I feel that I take in the experience more and can just be me. I am refilling my cup, as it were.
I spend a lot of money each month on health insurance. I remind myself that if I had to pay for any one of the various tests and procedures I need, the costs would often exceed what I pay, in total, just for health insurance in one year. (One test I needed, was in the high five figures, an amount that was three times more than I pay for annual insurance (I have three types of Medicare--regular, supplemental and Rx. That helps me not think of the monthly almost four figure number as being high.)
Additionally, my health issues require me to pay out of pocket for a lot of products and services during the year. I remind myself that these add to the quality of my life and that without them, daily life would be even more challenging (No matter how much you pay for insurance, there is always plenty of stuff that you must pay for out of pocket. It is maddening.)
Paying for healthcare and items that support better health is an investment in yourself and your well-being. Thinking of it that way, more as essential rather than frivolous or discretionary, could help you spend as needed in this category.
Frugality and the cost of health care in this country--they just don't go together.
There are rarely, if ever, ways to get a lower cost. Heck, there isn't even sufficient transparency so you could negotiate from strength.
One "bargain": The $99 I paid for a year of enrollment in One Medical.
I get 24/7 access to a health care professional as well as access to video and/on-site doctors, nurses, NPs, PAs, and other visits.
There is a facility close to me that has its own lab and nurse on-site for bloodwork and shots. It saves me time and money to travel cross town to multiple sites for the same services. Plus the phlebotomists are phenomenal. I have bad veins and they do an incredible job when taking the blood for my quarterly tests.
Investing in healthy food, vitamins and supplements and needed care is, if you think about it, "frugal" because staying as healthy as you can increases the quality of your life, along with, possibly, longevity. In any event, without good health, you really can't enjoy your life, no matter what you save.
@Irena, medical insurance is so frustrating. I'm finding that the stuff I need most (dental and therapy that is out of network) is not covered by my supposedly good insurance.
You're definitely right about investing in health. Over the past year or so I've increased the food budget slightly (in addition to inflation) but I really don't feel bad about it. We've invested in some gym equipment for the house but I'm thinking about rounding it out with a simple gym membership to do even more exercises.
I am for sure an introvert, as well as being an intense homebody, but I work to make sure it doesn't affect my life too much. I don't believe it's healthy to be too isolated and alone, even though that's my natural tendency. This is why it's good for me to work two days a week at school--otherwise I really wouldn't leave my house much. And of course, having four children certainly ensures I'm not alone too much. 🙂
@kristin@going country, I'm glad you brought up homebody. I'm an extrovert and rather social, but I absolutely love to be at home and I'd better not make plans that start after 8:00 at night or I simply will forget them once I'm home. I enjoy taking trips to see the beauty in our country, but I love, love, love to come home.
I went through a divorce because my husband left for another (younger) woman. So, I wasn't the one to file but I did live the experience.
I, too, recommend "You Could Make This Place Beautiful"
If infidelity is a factor then Tracy Schorn's "Leave a Cheater, Get a Life" (even if you were the one who was left)
Also, Sarah Manguso's "Liars"
@Kate, Tracy Schorn's book is "Leave a Cheater, GAIN a Life". Not wanted to be a Dreaded Corrector—just wanted to make it easier for people to find the book on GoodReads. (I'm not looking for divorce information but do love a well-written memoir.)
Being an introvert is not the same as being shy. I'm more introverted than anyone I know, but I can make pleasant chitchat if I need to; after a while I get talked out and want to be alone. Introversion/extroversion is about how you get your energy, not about anything else. Introverts from aloneness, extroverts from being around people.
A friend of mine calls herself a gregarious introvert. Another friend of mine, so extroverted it amazed me, would do things like call her friends and relatives just to chat, not because she had anything important to impart. I swear, when I realized this, my jaw dropped open. (That was one of the most revealing "so this is how the normies work" points for me. Another was my ex-stepmother-in-law saying she was upset about something while moving and told herself to "let it go." I thought, "You can do that?")
@Rose, Susan Cain's book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking describes what you are talking about here. I was shocked to find I am married to a shy introvert. Who would have thought there was such a thing?
@Book Club Elaine,
I totally get it. I'm a shy introvert, and always have been.
I definitely love your definition of ambivert and it fits me. I work from home and enjoy the peace and quiet while I work. When my husband is home and has a day off, I do find it bothersome; maybe it's because for most of my working from home life (20+ yrs) he was at work and is now retired. He says I don't go out enough, but I am happy in my home. And I did find a wonderful group of women who scrapbook once or twice a month so I do go out and meet people. But I have no problem being at home alone.
@Maureen,
Oh, I can relate to this. About 7 years ago my husband began working remotely, he is either gone for 3 - 4 days a week or home 24/7 during the work week. I enjoy his company, but I can’t get into any type of routine. When he is home, he seems to take over the whole house. When he is gone, the house seems quiet.
@Maureen,
Ha, it’s funny but extroverts have no problem criticizing introverts it seems. And then introverts have to defend themselves by pulling out examples of when they’re social. It never works the other way around, where the introvert shames (however lightly it’s applied) the extrovert.
@Erika JS, one of my biggest frustrations are articles and society in general teaching people how to be more social and go to more parties etc. Why isn't anyone teaching extroverts how to be quiet?
For the record, I don't think there's anything better or worse about being an introvert or an extrovert - there are good and bad things to both. But I can't stand how western society acts like introversion is some kind of fault.
Agreed. There is not one right way to recharge your batteries! Alone time is a great way to recharge, being with people is a great way to recharge, and I don't understand the need to shame someone who does the former.
@Sophie in Denmark, You know, I feel the meaning of the word "extraverted" has been warped. It doesn't just mean somebody who likes to socialize, it means somebody who defines themselves through others. Jung originally characterized extraverts as those who looked outside for validation: "'his conscience is in large measure dependent on public opinion." Although everyone is affected by objective data, the extravert’s thoughts, decisions and behavior are determined by them. Personal views and the inner life take second place to outer conditions:
'He lives in and through others; all self-communings give him the creeps. Dangers lurk there which are better drowned out by noise. If he should ever have a “complex,” he finds refuge in the social whirl and allows himself to be assured several times a day that everything is in order.'"
Sounds like a lot of modern people on social media! It's like social media was designed to make everyone into extraverts...without having to leave the couch. 😉
But introverts tend to be more self-sufficient, less likely to follow trends, and have more inner resources, according to this model. Of course, either can be taken to extremes.
(Can you tell I'm helping DS#2 in his Intro to Psychology class? LOL!)
@Karen A., the way I understand is that introverts get energy from being alone and extroverts from being around other people. Like many things, it is a spectrum. I consider myself a social introvert because although I do like spending time with people and can easily talk to others, I really, really need alone time. My best friend is more social than I am but is the same way (it's probably why we're such good friends!)
@Sophie in Denmark, It is indeed a spectrum, and I think the "energy" for some depends on who they're spending time with. Do people think extraverted sales clerks, for example, draw energy from dealing with customers all day? Probably they don't! But they are more likely to not feel exhausted as a very introverted person would. And that same sales clerk would feel more energized and happy after a day spent with a best friend.
@Erika JS, I was from a more Latin country suddenly living in a more Anglo country. You do get shamed for smiling too much, talking too much, inviting people over and things like that’s. For a fews years , I felt socially extremely inadequate. Then I moved to a way louder country and got back into being a reasonably social person that don’t like group but more intimate get together with real conversations.
@Bella, thank you for sharing your point of view. I have found that to be true as well.
Introvert here - mostly short and sweet blog commenter as well. The challenge for me is adding human interaction daily. But probably I should get out there and meet some like-minded widows my age...most of my friends are in their late 30s and I'm pushing mid-sixties. (:
Diane Cook's review of this divorce book for Christian women. Shares Scripture to encourage and not shame.
Crush Your Divorce and Keep Your Faith Paperback – February 14, 2024
"And then. maybe best of all, she generously shares insights from her long career as a kick-butt divorce lawyer to tell you how to help your lawyer prepare your legal case, which demystifies the legal process in the most refreshing way! Empowering!
I’m in the middle of the most daunting divorce right now, and I’m convinced God sent this book straight to me for this moment in my life. It’s going to change so many lives."
Aww, I am so sorry to hear that you too are walking this road. Sending you love.
@April, I hope it goes as smoothly as possible and that your lawyer is much better than your partner’s.
I have/had a problem with balance. Willing to pay for others, take care of the pets; but not will to fork over the money for new bras. I started doing a no spend challenge periodically ( twice a year and then last year every other month to go on vacation.) I feel like it makes me intentional with my purchases now and had the affect of more willingness to take care of my own needs. But it is an ongoing process.
I'm an introvert who is frequently lonely. Not lonely in the sense of being alone, but I have a hard time connecting with people. Partly it's cultural as I live in the U.S. but did not grow up here and don't know how to present the right cues or body language, partly it's from childhood trauma of being bullied and excluded from groups and not trusting social connections.
It's something that makes me feel ashamed of being an introvert, as it's easy to blame myself for not going out there and just being more social. I mask it well and people describe me as being social and a kind person. It leaves me feeling empty. I have gone to therapy for it, but it still sticks after all this time. The biggest factor (and hurdle) is to learn to accept and love ourselves.
@Kristina M., Is there a way for you to find other people who came to the US from your original country? Even online? That might help.
And I wish you would stop blaming and disliking yourself for being the way you are. Introversion is something built in our genes and there's no point in regretting it, as you can't change it.
It sounds like you have social anxiety as well. I've had it off and on in the past; once, about fifteen years ago, I was invited to a friend's party and I knew there would be about 40 people there, none of whom I knew except the hostess. I was so anxious I drove myself around the block twice while crying, then I thought to myself, "Really? Is this how I want myself to be?" Parked, forced myself to march up to the party, introduced myself, someone asked who my FB photo was, I said, "Nietzsche," started to explain who he was, the person said she'd been a philosophy major in college, and we were off chatting. At least for me, if I force myself, I eventually lose the anxiety. Social anxiety is terrible but it can be overcome.
@Kristina M., I'm sorry to hear that. Sometimes I struggle with introversion, but I get more frustrated that it's seen as a negative trait and that western society is catered more to extroversion. Have you read Quiet by Susan Cain? She does an excellent analysis of it.
@Kristina M., We're in the same boat. I had similar experiences in childhood. I have a very, very hard time making friends. As a child I would think I had a friend and then find out they were just spending time with me because they felt sorry for me, or they liked feeling superior to me, and they ended up treating me badly. I had one friend left from high school, and we recently parted ways and that hurt, a lot. I have one good friend from college. I am loyal to a fault once I have a good, real friend, but finding people I mesh with is so very hard. I am constantly thinking, "am I going to screw this up?" and feel like I'm acting like a socially awkward penguin.
@Kristina M., Kristina, I grew up here and a lot of what you said sounds like me. I too was bullied relentlessly and then had an abusive relationship with a woman before finally meeting my wife. I often go through periods of expecting most people to just ditch me because it's happened so many times in my life.
@Battra92, it is easy to hide in the comfort of a "safety blanket" of pretending we don't need others, not becoming too attached or pre-empting connections since we are afraid of being hurt by them in the end.
I try hard not to feel sorry for myself as there are so many others who also struggle to fit in, perhaps they are neurodivergent, live with a disability or come from some other kind of disadvantage. Loneliness is a "sticky" force though.
Sorry you had to go through the tough road, but glad you have found your person! Tough gig to be a human sometimes 😉
@Karen A., aww, I want to give you a hug!
I can relate with the feeling of being loyal to a fault once you make a friend. At the same time, I can be ambivalent as it's harder to trust those feelings in others.
I recently was ghosted by a best friend since college, whom I've been very close to for the last 25+ years. We've been through so much together and my kids looked to her as an auntie, but she chose to cut ties with me together with some other friends. I have tried to see how it is something that she needed, not personal to me, since I was not the only one she cut ties with. Still grieving, though.
@Sophie in Denmark, no, I have not. Thanks for the reading tip! I will definitely look it up.
We teach our kids to accept diversity and to accept themselves as they are, but you are right, our society does not always model it well in treating one trait as more desirable than another.
@Kristina M., Sorry to hear that. I relate so much. I'm an introvert and I have social anxiety, so the idea of speding unstrctured time woth people (like going out for a coffee) is horrible for me. I don't do small talk well; I tend to freeze, and my mind goes blank. So, I don't have many friends, and I only really deeply connect with one person in this world: my husband. Anyone else I'm uncomfortable with to a certain extend. So, I feel lonely from time to time. It's hard.
@Kristina M., I recently had to cut ties with a long time very close friend. Killed me to do so, but her bizarre and explosive behavior that evolved and worsened and became a pattern (likely due to opioid addiction) turned the friendship into very unpleasant encounters. I could not "ghost" her after so many years and experiences together, so I wrote her a letter explaining why I was "breaking up". Took forever to compose the letter. . . so very very hard.
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, I had to cut ties with a longtime friend last year because of illegal behavior and what I now realize was compulsive lying. She was so good at explaining things away that I did not see what was happening until one day when something got mixed up about one of her stories.
@Isa, unstructured social groups are the worst settings for me, where the feelings of being ostracized really come up to the surface and I feel bad despite being surrounded by friends. I do much better in structured settings where I have the confidence to speak up, but perhaps the best in one-on-one interactions with friends, so coffee dates are perfect for me.
Sorry you feel lonely too!
@Rose, thank you for the thoughtful words!
I have made connections with people from my home country, but sometimes it's a bit triggering as I was bullied growing up by people similar to me. I've actually noticed I do the best with expats from other countries, as we share the feeling of "otherness", but are sufficiently different also.
You might be right about social anxiety as well, I do tend to stress a lot before parties but so far have managed to keep it at bay 🙂
I can relate to being too frugal. I have sleep apnea, and don’t sleep well despite using a CPAP for many years. In fact, I had the same CPAP for about eight years. I resisted getting another sleep study because my machine still worked. I finally got a new sleep study and a new CPAP machine and am sleeping much better. At one of my appointments, the NP said that sometimes the machines just don’t work as well anymore and should be replaced about every five years. I could have been getting more sleep years ago if not trying to squeeze every penny out of that machine.
@Dee in AZ, the old ones were programmed to a specific pressure, whereas newer ones automatically adjust. I have severe sleep apnea. (sigh)
@Rose, my old one automatically adjusted. So does my new one. Still wasn’t helping me like it should have.
@Dee in AZ, and @Rose,
I have sleep apnea, also, and I have no idea if my CPAP machine automatically adjusts. I do know it's at least 5 years old, or maybe older. Thanks for the reminder to talk to my doc about it.
Many, many years ago (like 27+ years) when I divorced there wasn't as much written about the topic as there is now, but I do remember reading that to give yourself a lot of grace for the first 3 year period after separation. They said it takes 6 months for the shock and panic and all those emotions to start to die down....a year for the emotions to just level out and go through some of the steps of grief and all the other feelings divorce brings (in my case a lot of relief, but also sadness for my son), and another year past that before you have recovered enough and enough time has passed that where you are in that third year is what you built. You can look around and access your surroundings as you and decide what you should change or not. But that first three years you aren't going to do it all right and you are going to have some really hard days and great days, but just be patient with yourself and kind.
I found that to be true and many days it gave me the permission to say "It was a bad day, but it's going to be a better life" and dust myself off for the next day. I'm not someone that is normally easy on herself haha. By the start of that third year I also found that my ex was not as volatile with me and had settled his emotions some also.
On extrovert/introvert. I'm a chameleon. My father was a minister, and my mother taught all of us kids early on how to interact in public, make conversation, look someone in the eye when speaking, etc. So, I can do it very well and seem very extroverted and outgoing and like I'm having a ball. But, it is EXHAUSTING for me. A few hours at a party and I need a day of silence to recover.
@Marlena,
There is so much wisdom in the line, “It’s a bad day, but it’s going to be a better life.” Although I understand that this is meant in relationship to divorce, but it can be applied to so much of life.
This is funny, because I was just talking to my sister about how I will delay buying or refuse to buy something for myself that I actually could use. For example, I lugged heavy bags of dirt and mulch, potted plants, wood, and bricks in my arms for years before I finally got a garden cart that dumps. I limped along with an aging handheld mixer for far too long before I bought a good stand mixer.
My divorce was in 1978, so I have no recommendations of books or websites.
I'm an introvert, and I always struggled with it. I gained a lot of insight by reading Adam McHugh's "Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture," which another introvert in my church loaned me. I'd recommend it, even to people who don't go to church at all. Our family of four had two adults and one child who were all introverts when child #2 came along as a full-on extrovert. It's provided some interesting social and psychological studies as time has passed. Poor child - sometimes it was hard to remember that sitting home with just the family was not enough for her.
I feel that too many people destroy their families and create endless unhappiness, suffering and trauma for people who never asked for it just because they want to. We aren't guaranteed endless happiness in this life and when you make a vow before God, I think that means something.
My parents are effectively separated but will most likely never get divorced. They don't live together but aren't hostile. My dad used to call my mom daily begging her to come home but she'd much rather take care of my sister's kids or her mother than a disabled husband. I admit this whole thing made me have a very dim view of my mother but also of a lot of women who said "Good for her!" when learning of the situation. He's surviving but my mom has said some nasty things about him over the years.
As for the intro/extro. I am someone who wishes he had his people but I find myself alone most of the time because people generally don't want to spend time with me for whatever reason (probably because I am a little weird and possibly ND.) My wife threw a birthday party for me when I turned 40 and no one came. So I'm a shy kid who grew up and learned to be okay with being alone. But if I get hold of you I will talk to you until you are sick of me. 😛
@Battra92, "I feel that too many people destroy their families and create endless unhappiness, suffering and trauma for people who never asked for it just because they want to. We aren’t guaranteed endless happiness in this life and when you make a vow before God, I think that means something,"
Agreed. But not everyone makes a vow before God. I didn't. I did honor my vows.
Re Caro above,
"Very few people leave long term relationships on a whim or for fun. Very, very few people want to have their income decimated, their children’s lives upended, their home taken away from under their feet etc., so in my view, the actual, genuine ”wanting to” is enough."
A lot of people think none of that will happen to them. Plus, of course, many people are great at justifying their own selfish decisions. "I was never happy" etc, except that they were, they're rewriting history to avoid feeling guilty or responsible.
I'm sure my ex thought, based on his own father's four marriages, his uncle's four or five marriages, etc, that he'd have the same life and relationship with his kids, money, just with a new partner and we'd all be one big happy family.
@Battra92, I really enjoy your thoughtful and honest comments. I'm guessing your take on vows meaning something won't be popular today, but it is good to hear another view. Very few things in life are hard black & white (including the introvert/extrovert categories).
What is "ND"?
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, ND is Neurodivergent which seems to be the big catch all word these days to describe people with everything from Autism to ADHD to Dyslexia, Dyspraxia or even stuff like Tourettes. It's a nicer way of saying "Not normal."
@Battra92, Tourette's is a form of autism. It's not "even stuff like Tourette's."
As for "not normal," that's "not nice." Some people are wired differently. Please respect that and don't belittle it.
A small factual correction: according to what I have read, Tourette's and autism are commonly co-morbidities (meaning they often occur together), but they are distinct diagnoses. https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/autism/tourette-syndrome
https://www.abtaba.com/blog/tourette-syndrome-autism
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750946716300071
And a note about context: Battra just said that he himself is most likely ND; based on that, we can logically assume that he is not being disrespectful of the ND community and does not need correction on this point.
Battra, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're just saying you feel like neurodivergent is a euphemism, and you feel a bit like you are being labeled as "abnormal" no matter what words the medical community uses. Yes? No?
Neurodivergent as a label is a very large umbrella; my own synesthesia is a type of neurodivergence. In the most literal sense of things medically speaking, synesthesia is a divergence from what is "normal", as in neurotypical. But there are so many people who have various types of neurodivergence, perhaps we need to rethink what "neurotypical" even is.
@Kristen, still too abrasive? ^^^ LMK how I should be reacting.
Yes, and here is some rare direct talk from me:
I'm not gonna lie, this is getting frustrating for even me, and I have what most would consider to be massive levels of patience. I have repeatedly and gently tried to offer context, explain the expectations here, lead by example, offer another perspective, and still, you routinely show up in an abrasive and confrontational way that is not in line with the culture I am trying to maintain here.
I have had multiple emails from other readers over the last year letting me know that they no longer read the comments and do not participate here anymore because of the tone of your comments. It is not just me who finds them off-putting.
I understand that you do not have poor intentions and that you are not trying to hurt people, but you need to know about the impact of your words...that some of the things you say and some of the WAYS you say things is inconsiderate of other people and is hurtful.
Please consider this feedback. You frequently have helpful and entertaining things to say and share, and it is a bummer when you veer into abrasiveness.
From this point forward, I'm going to promptly delete comments that fail to pass the vibe check.
People can be abrasive and confrontational almost anywhere on the internet, but I'm not having it here.
@Rose, I don't understand your attitude or animosity here so I'm just going to ignore it as I don't know why I'm your target today.
@Kristen Generally speaking I've been called everything from weird to abnormal to strange, fat, lazy, good for nothing etc. and that's just from my parents and teachers growing up. So if a Dr called me ND I generally suspect that it would just be a new way to point out that I'm a bit different.
I have a child with diagnosed ADHD and a wife who most likely has it. I have been diagnosed with seasonal depression and just straight up regular depression. If that falls under ND so be it but no doctor has called me that. I struggle daily with a lot of things people seem to have no issues with (e.g. keeping everything tidy, going with what the crowd wants to do and pretending to not be bored etc. )
I can understand why you'd feel suspicious of the label, given your history (and I'm sorry to hear you've had so many negative adjectives applied to you.)
I do think that the tide is shifting to much more acceptance of the idea that there's a lot of variation in the way our brains work, so I am hopeful that the stigmatization of these variations will get less and less with time.
@Battra92, re ND, I am all of what you said, except Dyslexia and I don't know what Dyspraxia is, I'm assuming it's a type of learning disability?? My BFF is also ND, we are one and the same, except for the Tourettes. She calls me Neuro-spicy! I LOVE IT!
@Linda in Canada, I have dyspraxia! And some other ND things. Dyspraxia creates issues with spatial awareness (this is a very simplified definition).
Honestly, what I am noticing is that numerous people have some ND traits. We exist on a spectrum and hopefully our culture(s) are beginning to respect that.
@Battra92
I hate that you were called names and bullied like that. For what it's worth, I suspect a number of us here would get along with you just great in the real world.
Reading the comments, I'm thinking being here on this blog almost guarantees one is an introvert, or at least an ambivert. I'm genuinely curious about that, now!
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, this might be another unpopular opinion, but I think if marriage isn't working for you then divorce can be a good thing. Divorce can save families. I'm not saying people shouldn't try and work things out or that divorce isn't hard, but it can be the better option. And I would think God would want His (or Her or whatever pronoun) children to be happy.
@Sophie in Denmark, my son also has dyspraxia. Here in the UK it’s been renamed developmental coordination disorder. I think of it a bit like coordination dyslexia. My husband and I also have poor gross motor coordination but my sons fine motor is also really affected unfortunately.
I can understand your feelings on this, particularly based on your life experiences.
But I also want to offer this perspective: there are hundreds and hundreds of women in my online support group who stayed in their harmful marriages for decades, and have only left when they really felt backed into a corner. Many of them stayed for so long because of shaming messages about divorce.
Anyway, I just want to be clear that there are an awful lot of people who file for divorce under terrible duress after a long period of suffering, and they do not take it lightly.
Many of the women I know stayed for so long because they do not want to tear their families apart and they don't want to hurt their kids, but the studies show that in a high-conflict home (even when the conflict is in the undercurrent, and not super overt), children do better after a divorce. So, sometimes it is the kindest thing to do.
@Battra92, I always think I have two choices when it comes to comments that "don't sit well". Ignore or bring it on. All depends on one's mood of the day. Do I find some of Rose's (or others) posts not to my liking, I'll admit yes. Does it deter me from reading the blog, reading the comments, and/or posting a comment - Hades no. So if a person chooses to to not read/read comments/post, their prerogative - no skin off my nose (or other anatomical body part). There have been other forums/blogs where the owner only wanted Pollyanna or christian readers/posts. This is not real life but some just can't handle being outside their safe bubble. The world changes and those who cannot figure out how to deal with change aren't going to be very happy. Change is inevitable, figure out how to make it work for you. There is a difference between safe and coddled.
I have decided I'm just going to be a vert, which I did not know was even a real word.
1
a
: green forest vegetation especially when forming cover or providing food for deer
b
: the right or privilege (as in England) of cutting living wood or sometimes of pasturing animals in a forest
2
: the heraldic color green
I like green, may favorite color. I have deer, fertile deer in fact. While I don't pasture animals in a forest, I maintain my small forest. And also burn firewood.
@Selena, ugh my favorite color.
@Kristen, not sure if everyone has access to this article, but here is an interesting piece on how divorce can have a positive impact on children:
https://www.thecut.com/article/brooding-can-divorce-make-you-a-better-parent.html
@Rose,
This is late to the comments so I don’t know if it will be read
Frequent reader Infrequent commenter
Kristen please delete this if you deem it inappropriate
Rose it is true that your comments are often insightful and from a different perspective that I for one, value and appreciate.
But it is also true that sometimes your tone or words are mean or carelessly cruel. Please, please edit your own comments, and reread and ask yourself “ Is this how I want to be?” (Yes, throwing your own words back at you) before you hit “post”
What I hear underneath your words is that for various reasons, divorce, changes in health, employment, finances or life circumstances, you feel persecuted and are venting here because you are hurting.
Much peace and grace to you
@Battra92,
Sometimes, it is not about you.
It is about the other person .
A wise reaction to ignore and shrug it off, as hard as that may be
@Selena, oh, nice. If I were not so clearly an introvert (I think my myers briggs was like 89 percent?!) and hadn't hit quite so many deer with vehicles and, well, didn't love the prairie so much ... I would also be a vert. What a great word to learn. Green is the best.
@Karen., I took the DISC decades ago - a driver driver. And to find out, another woman in my group was the same. It was quite interesting to find out how alike we were (house cleaned BEFORE we went on vacation). Everything caught up no more than a day after we got home from vacation (laundry, mail etc). I've never taken the Myers-Briggs but I should just cuz I am nosy lol.
@Sophie in Denmark, yeppers. No one answer fits all situations. It is good to hear from so many differing viewpoints here.
I am also a ambivert. When I took the Myers Briggs Personality Test, I was 51% introvert and 49% extrovert. I love people, but I also love being alone.
The development of personality is an interesting subject. I often wonder how much is nurture versus nature especially after raising three children of my own. Sometimes I feel that they were born with their most personalities strongly in tact, However, It is fun now to look at some other things.
If you believe in astrology, the sign that you’re born under can have a huge impact on who you are. For instance, I am a Libra whose sign is a scale. Libra’s are always seeking balance. This is true in all aspects of my life including in my relationships with people and how I spend my time
Some believe birth order has a significant impact on one’s personality. I am the youngest in my family by 10 years. Thus, I possess the characteristics of both an only child and the youngest.
Some may say that social skills require practice, and one develops more confidence the more practiced they are. I believe Lizzie in Pride and Prejudice said that conversation was like playing an instrument. If you practice, you will become better at it. A. Marie, what is that quote?
@Bee,
I was just about to make a nature/nurture comment. I've never known if I'm in the middle because of the way I was born or the way I was treated. On a farm in the middle of nowhere with no kids to play with and a mom who sometimes didn't speak for days.
I remember the weird feeling of happy/scared to go back to school after three months of not seeing another kid.
If I had to guess, I'd say that I got very very good at being alone, but maybe that wasn't my nature. I finally bought a condo with a guest room and it's been grand central station around here on the weekends and I love it!
Of course, the game changer is I now work from home so I have the mental energy to be social outside. When I was teaching, I needed quiet for hours to get over it.
Also liked the point someone made about noise. I can't stand noisy talkers; it makes me flinch. Unfortunately it feels like people have become awful about that since the pandemic.
As for me, I was happily holed up doing puzzles. Drove my extrovert boyfriend nuts.
@Bee, Yes, after Darcy says he is not very good at small talk/conversation: “My fingers,” said Elizabeth, “do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women’s do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault – because I would not take the trouble of practising.”
@Bee, here, I believe, is the quote you're thinking of. Elizabeth says this as she's playing the pianoforte at Rosings, and after Mr. Darcy has just pleaded that he lacks "the talent...of conversing easily with those I have never seen before":
"My fingers," said Elizabeth, "do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women's do....But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault--because I would not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe my fingers as capable as any other woman's of superior expression."
Whereupon Darcy falls all over himself complimenting her playing, but adds, "We neither of us perform to strangers."
@Bee, I was painfully shy as a child up through high school, I wouldn’t speak to anyone. My parents always have me a pass (just told people I was shy and didn’t encourage me to talk) It took me into adulthood to finally feel competent at talking to people.
When I had a very quiet, shy son, I didn’t want to do the same to him. I thought it was something that could be taught to an extent (I don’t expect to make him an extrovert but do want him to be able to greet people at the very least) A reader here, Rose, also put the idea into my head because she mentioned her mother used to practice/quiz her young children on greetings/social responses. So I’ve been working with him by practicing with me, gently promoting him if he forgets to greet, and preparing him ahead of time ( e.g we are going to see your aunt Jane, she’s going to want to say hi and talk to you, be ready to say hi to her) Yesterday at school he actually unprompted said goodbye to his friend, using her name, and repeated it when she didn’t hear him the first time. This would have been unheard of a few months ago so I definitely feel like it’s working in my limited experience!
@LB, prompting, not promoting!
@LB, That is so good to hear. Thank you!
@ms.b214@gmail.com, I have a friend who talks at the top of her lungs; I swear you could hear her the next town over. I found myself staying away just because of the volume until one day I decided that was ridiculous---I was not telling her why I was backing off. Turned out she took it very well and made efforts to lower her volume. This was years ago, and we are still close---she shouts less around me and I have built up a tolerance for her volume. But I have met other scream-talkers, and they do make me flinch internally.
I love how that turned out for both of you!
@LB,
You are doing a wonderful thing for your son. Many people just assume that a child will learn how to meet people and what to do in social settings without any guidance. However, sometimes it must be learned.
I’m going to show my age, but when I was young in the South, etiquette was still taught. (cotillion) This may seem terribly archaic to some, but it was actually helpful. The social skills that I learned prepared me for all sorts of situations. I’m never flummoxed by what fork to use, how to write a thank you note, or what to say.
I think the internet in general needs a little etiquette class, based on what I see out there!
@A. Marie and @Karen A
That was exactly the scene that I was thinking about.
@Bee, including "bless your heart".
(1) As a member of the FG Widows' Club, I'm well aware that there are **major** differences between being divorced and being widowed. But the advice about seeking out appropriate books and online resources, as well as making (or, in my case, already having) friends in a similar situation, is just as appropriate for those of us who are widowed.
JASNA BFF and I have supported each other through thick and thin over the last 15 years, and never more so now that we're both widows (her DH died the year before mine did). I also feel great solidarity with @JD and other recent widows in the Commentariat. And I've often recommended the Spouse/Partner chat line in alzconnected.org, but I continue to look in on it (and post occasionally) whenever those of us in "Stage 8" have questions or advice. "Stage 8" is how we describe the phase we land in after our partners die, since most commenters refer to the Tam Cummings seven-stage scheme for describing progression through Alzheimer's and other dementias.
(2) I like Kristen's term "ambivert," since it describes me pretty well. I'm not on the autism/ND spectrum and have always been capable of making friends (and even striking up conversations with random strangers in grocery checkouts). And I do realize that social interaction is good for me, which is one reason (among many) that I maintain my neighborly ties and my association with JASNA.
But I also thrive on a LOT of time alone; it's how I made a living for 36 years as a telecommuting copyeditor, after all. (Ask me how often I missed constant interruptions, office gossip/infighting, and having to share working space with other people in general.) And it's how I'm slowly learning to thrive on living alone in widowhood.
(3) Yes, I have occasionally made myself suffer from being too frugal, primarily in the shoe department. But as I get older and more orthopedically challenged, I'm learning that skimping on shoes--and ignoring possible hazards in general--is false economy.
Oh yes, as we have discussed before, there is a lot of overlap when a marriage ends, whether it's by divorce or a death. It is not 100% the same but there are certain corollaries.
@A. Marie, I did without quite a bit when my children were younger, Their needs came before mine. I think that is a common mom thing. Now that they are adults. I’ve quit doing that.
My wants and needs are few and always replace my walking/ running shoes on a regular basis. I’m so glad that you now do the same. BTW, I also have divested myself of all uncomfortable but pretty shoes.
Funny you should mention introversion and extroversion. I am reading "Quiet" about this very topic. I found a label for myself, Extroverted Introvert. Sounds bizarre, but like Kristen, I always start up a conversion with the next person in line at the store. I love knowing about people, their stories, and how they cope with life. However, I want this interaction in small doses for a variety of reasons.
I have radically trimmed my personal friend group as I found I was usually doing most of the emotional work. Self absorption drives me nuts. My husband is my best friend and we do everything together. I also read for hours every day. I like being at home, always have. (Retired) I was in the medical field for ten years and the patient interaction wore me down.
@Anne,
You and I are clearly twins separated at birth.
@Anne, I call that being a social introvert.
This is my favorite type of post. Thank you, Kristen! (I just forwarded it to a friend who is about to begin a divorce.)
Thanks, Kristen, so, so happy to see the introverts/extroverts discussion. Ambivert here too but as I get older, leaning more and more happily on my introvert side. I emphasize the word "happily" because here’s the thing. I keep seeing an almost endless string of articles on loneliness being a health detriment.
I fully support those who are lonely getting all the help possible and want them to feel seen and become happier. I’m thrilled to support them where I can, by checking in regularly with those in my life who may feel alone.
But the good and worthy message for the lonely often feels like a shot at those of us who need regular time alone to let us feel healthy. I’ve found myself feeling guilty about my introvert side and have to remind myself that this is how I feel happier.
In conversation, too, people often use the word introvert in a negative way. And that feels unfair. I wish a distinction could be made between how lonely one is versus how much alone time one needs. Everyone is different and all needs deserve to be met but also should be included in the articles. No one should be considered "less than" in the service of helping one group.
I not only am an introvert but I used to be painfully shy. Talking in front of groups or being in strange new situations terrified me, and I often bungled up....stuttered worse than Pres. Biden sometimes. What helped me tremendously is that I took the Dale Carnegie course in human relations and public speaking. It was expensive (my employer did not pay for it) but it was worth it! I no longer hesitate to speak, I am comfortable speaking in front of groups, and I feel confident talking to others, even important people. My stuttering is at a minimum. I no longer doubt myself. I even went back for more education and became a teacher some time after taking the "Dale course". No way could I have taught had I not taken this class. I've since been a graduate assistant instructor for the course and it is just amazing how the shyest class members absolutely blossom -- come out of their shells -- over the 12 week long course. If you are nervous and upset around others, this is the class for you. It might not be immediately frugal, but it will likely open many doors for you on down the line.
@Fru-gal Lisa, fascinating story of personal growth—thank you for sharing. What I really want to know is this: who are those "important people"? I find "important people" with good character are easy to talk to; people with bad character (self-importance) are difficult to talk to, whether "important" or not.
@Central Calif. Artist Jana, Because of my jobs, I've chatted a lot with household names, some of whom are worth tens of billions. Every one of them has been polite and easy to talk to--an old acquaintance of mine, who runs the second most valuable private equity firm in the nation, answered my son's phone call* with "How can I help you?" Whatever the public thinks about extremely rich and important people, in my experience, they are all very polite, charming, and easy to talk to. It's most definitely something that contributes to success in life.
*Son wanted career advice. Acquaintance pointed him to training and told him after a year to come back and work for him. He also told Son grad school was a wast of time and some of the best industries to invest in in private equity.
@Rose, that echoes my experiences. There are lots of people who think they are important who are just arrogant; most of the well-known people I've met are genuinely interested and authentically kind. Of course my experiences are on a much smaller, lesser known scale.
I have no issue with being by myself. I find that if I don't get enough solitude time, I start resenting whatever is consuming my time. I will admit I don't care for large crowds.
I have the luxury of earmarking monies for large, planned expenses. And have a healthy emergency savings amount. I'm probably too frugal when it comes to buying clothes (shoes too but I have a hard to find size foot). Perhaps not all frugality, I just dislike to shop. It seems nothing ever fits me but I see others of all heights and builds finding clothes that fit them. I work remote and have for wow, almost 15 years. So the need for a work wardrobe took most clothes shopping died of attrition.
I have no issue with divorce but truth be told, I'd have a hard time dividing some assets. One in particular is the way it is because of what I chose to invest in. We don't have the same risk tolerance (not like I am bleeding edge by any means).
But I do think too many people get married because a) it is "expected" of them or b) are more in love with the idea of getting married than being married. I cringe any time I see daddy paying for princess's dream wedding (one Disney one comes to mind in particular). The groom (IMHO), is already doomed - chances are he can not support princess in the way daddy does. Money issues are tough when you are both committed.
I am an ambivert as well!
I love my alone time. I am an extrovert at work and a team leader and mentor. I am a cheerleader to those who need it and can read people's anxieties. I can speak to a crowd of 1000's without fainting. I, too was bullied in high school until my boyfriend from another school came to my school for wrestling practice (he was nationally ranked and his coach was friends with my hs's coach). From there the team captain became my buddy (he was very popular), I became a wrestling cheerleader and was treated special because of my boyfriend...I knew it was fake, but I rode the wave for what it was.
I am an introvert. If I spend too much time with other people I literally get sick. Now that I am old, I find I simply stay home all the time. I only go out for medical appointments. (My husband runs our errands.) I do my socializing with him and on line. Yes, you can develop close relationships on line if you follow up blog comments with email discussions that branch out to personal disussions. I am still grieving my on line best friend who died nearly a year ago. I miss Tammy!
@Linda Sand, Sending comforting thoughts about your best friend Tammy!
I am happily married and have never been divorced, but recently I discovered a writer named Tia Levings who has a website (tialevings.com) and some YouTube videos. Her book is called “A Well-Trained Wife,” and she also appeared in Shiny Happy People. I think Kristen and others from very conservative religious backgrounds might find some resonance in her experiences. (My parents were devout Baptists - not *that* kind of Baptist - not remotely fundamentalist, but through acquaintances and extended family members, I am familiar with that subculture.)
Yes, I follow her, and I have her book on my phone right now. 🙂
@Kristen, oof, that book was a hard read. So good though!
Unlike most people, I got married assuming I would get divorced. My father was married four, maybe five times, so I always figured I'd go down the same path. (So did my siblings, but none of them have been divorced either...) My father did not like to date, so except for our biological mother, all his wives were his secretaries first. (Seems weird now but it was a not uncommon occurrence back then with executives.) When we married, I told my husband that after two years I would be leaving. I refused to wear a wedding band, and we were married in Scotland because at that time our local paper listed everyone who took out a marriage license that week, and I did not want anyone to know. I used to go around the house singing that song with the lines "We'll sing in the sunshine...then I'll be on my way...I will never love you, the cost of love's too dear." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xOOFDQOqDg I was so sure I was impossible to live with that I figured I would always end things before the guy ended them. My husband used to say that he would take what he could get. After two years I wanted to stay on but figured I had been saying I would leave so I should. But I never did and my husband brought home a wedding ring he had commissioned from a jeweler he had long admired and that was the end of it. Every January, when we would talk about what is good and what we would like to change about our relationship (which now takes about 2 minutes total), I would offer to leave until he finally told me to please stop offering that. And here we are 41 years later. When the siblings and their spouses get together, the joke is that the spouses should go into another room and hold a support group meeting for people who have married into my family. I am still at a loss to explain how it is we are all really happily married...
And here you are in one of the happiest marriages I've ever seen!
I love the love you guys share. 🙂
@Lindsey,
I look to your posts for the laughter in your stories and the love you have with your husband. I don’t have any stories as wild as yours but do have a loving relationship with a great guy going on decades now.
@Lindsey,
"My father was married four, maybe five times"
Um...did he like, lose count?
(I'm joking, btw, and genuinely hope you aren't offended. I agree with Kristen, that your stories about your marriage to your husband are some of the sweetest parts of this blog.)
@Becca, Not offended at all! We kids all think he hid one of the marriages from us since it seemed to have lasted less than two months and he could not face the thought of us teasing him about being a geriatric Lothario.
I think your definition of ambivert fits me. I do enjoy talking with other people and being social, but then I need time at home to recharge. I can work from home some but would not be happy to work from home all the time. I would miss human interactions too much.
I definitely struggle with finding the balance between frugality and spending on needed purchases. DH teases me that once I put money into savings, I loathe to pull it back out, and he wouldn't be wrong! I have set up a system similar to what Kristen recommended in that I have different savings accounts for different goals. I have a home improvement fund that I willingly will tap when we need something like a new frig or dishwasher. I have a vacation fund that I willingly will pull money out of when it's time for a vacation. Having the savings split up for different purposes helps me feel more comfortable spending the savings.
A really amazing book for those who have experienced infidelity is Tracy Schorn’s book, “Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life.” Highly recommended it.
One thing I wondered about, when you divorce from a religious background, to you find yourself at odds with the community? Or push out from it? Do you keep friends and family?
I was married ( introduced marriage) at 18 and left at 21, but it took me an other 8 years to get my Get( my divorce). I was cast out and people from the community strongly advised me to stay, to give it an other go and stuff like that. I ended the marriage after finding out my husband was having many sexual partners. I became less religious( off the Derech) Still pretty religious but less insular.
I married again at 30, with someone I meet in sjoel ,now some 30 years ago. But I am just tolerated by my family and former friends.
The community was great, supportive and warm, always someone to turn too. My grandmother is the only one that keeps in touch . And funny enough my ex-husband who totally left the community.
I wonder how common this experience is, you just don’t want the man but end up loosing much more.
@Bella, your story is a prime example of why organized religion is dying off. I dumped it when the reverend at my church, who was divorced and remarried to a woman about the same age as his son from his first marriage, pronounced HE would decide if we could get married. Adios amigo.
There were parents in the small town where I grew up who would not let their children associate with child(ren) whose parents were divorced. I guess I missed that chapter in the "good" book.
@Bella, am so sorry for what happened to you. you are so blessed to have a grandmother. my maternal one died when i was 10 and my paternal when i was 13. i miss them so much more then i miss my mom who passed when i was 20. mom was pretty mean to me and my stepmom was the usual evil stepmom portrayed in fairy tales.
I am definitely an introvert and find the process of meeting new people difficult. Starting a new job, or going to a work or school party where I don't know many people was absolute torture. But once I am comfortable with people, I enjoy socializing with them. If, however, I am with people for a long period of time - traveling with friends for example, I have to excuse myself for a couple of hours here to decompress. Before I understood this was do to introversion I felt bad about it. But now I understand, and my friends and family do too.
As for budgeting, I agree that setting aside money for a particular purchase while working on a bigger goal gives me permission to buy that thing. As a result, I have 20 or so set-aside accounts broken down within my budget to manage certain purchases. I know that would drive some people bananas, but it works for me!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: SPENDING MONEY IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING UNFRUGAL. Further, not spending money can be unfrugal if it makes you spend more money in the long run. For example, needing special shoes because you used worn-out shoes for too long and hurt your feet. Sometimes getting the lowest life-time cost means spending a chunk of money. Thinking of it as an investment can help with this cognitive bias.
+ + + + +
While I’m definitely an introvert in that I recharge by being by myself, it is also true that I definitely like interacting with others, including the one-serving interactions with random people I encounter. That was one of the things I missed most during the pandemic: random human interactions.
(That’s actually a bit of an issue now because I’m on vacation with family members, who can get a little frustrated when I spend “too long” chatting instead of doing the next thing.) (Not to worry, we have a lot of experience finding the right balance.)
@WilliamB,
I love the statement, “spending money is not the same thing as being unfrugal.”
When my husband and I were first married, he needed a good pair of dress shoes for his newly acquired job. This was a time when that meant a pinstripe suit with wingtips.
I insisted he go to Florsheim and get properly fitted for his new shoes. He had never had a new pair of dress shoes in his life. He was always forced to wear his father’s cast offs. I remember him saying that he didn’t know that you could buy shoes that didn’t hurt your feet, He had been forcing his size 8.5 wide foot into a much smaller shoe.
I never, ever felt that this was an unfrugal purchase.
@Bee, ever since I was a child my parents taught me it was important to have well-fitted shoes. They saved in other areas but shoes were something worth investing in, and it was a good lesson. When I started going running I went to a sports shop and got my feet measured and my gait analysed, so they could ensure I was buying the best pair of shoes for my feet and prevent injury.
growing up i had a very lonely life. both parents were pack rats. could never have anyone over. grandparents passed when i was young. no sibs, no cousins. i buried myself in books. i now still bury myself in books from the library. many that were recommended here. through this blog i discovered gilmour girls.
my life is 1000% better now. married with two kids and we all live in 750 sq. ft. hubby cooks, cleans and sometimes drives me nuts. but i am so greatful to be a mom and a wife. when they go biking, i am a klutz with bikes or skiing. or hiking i am happy to be alone but i am so glad when they come home in one piece.
we have no debt, no car, no air conditioning. and i am happy to listen and contribute nothing but sometimes i open my big mouth. after six months of marriage i called my dad and stepmom and told them i was sorry they wasted so much money on my wedding but i wanted a divorce. after 24 years i can't imagine my life without him and i hope i go first.
i love everyone here and there are so many people i would love to meet irl. but my top
two are rose and a marie.
I really am going to read the rest of the comments about introvert-extrovert but before I muddy my thinking am going to comment.
I’ve always been on the reticent side of outgoing and am also classic introvert in a lot of ways. But I think it is getting more pronounced as I age. Two recent examples — driving a school bus more than two trips in two days is way too much. And eight games of volleyball over two matches is also too much. Just too many people.
Introversion! I have always been introverted but my current job is heavy on interaction with people so I always crave and retreat to my own corner and quiet of home, by myself. I always feel better.
Kristen, I am trying to reach you by email. I used the above mentioned link but it did not take me to a place from which I could email you. Help!
Oh, weird! Just send an email to thefrugalgirl@gmail.com
@Kristen, Thank you for touching on those topics together. I can't wait to sit down and read every comment from which I always learn something new. Hugs from an introvert 🙂
I am definitely an introvert
Daughter of 2 extroverts
Caused some problems growing up but I am now happily married to another introvert. We work well together
It has been 57 years since our first date
Early in our marriage, my husband and I argued quite a bit about our money. He likes to spend money on things that brought immediate gratification and I like to save up money for bigger things I want. Our solution was to each have an allowance every month that we accounted for in our budget. It started small (I think we each got $50 a month) and we gradually increased it over the years (we are now at $100 a month).
This money can be used how each of us chooses and the other person doesn't question the purchases that are made with their fun money. We set "rules" about what fun money is for vs. what we should buy with our own money and if there is a question about what category the purchase fits into, we talk about it. We have agreed that fun money is for anything we personally want that doesn't benefit both us, eating out with friends, and solo trips or friend trips where the other person isn't going with.
My desire to save instead of spend sometimes makes it hard for me to purchase something I really want, even if I have enough fun money for it. In these insances, I'm grateful for the input my husband provides. I had been researching and talking constantly about buying a new bike that was expensive in my eyes. Finally, after deciding which one I wanted, my husband reminded me that I wasn't making an impulsive decision and that I save up my money for purchases just like this. The bike came this week and I am so happy that he gave me the perspective I needed to buy it. 🙂
Lysa Terkeurst- Good Boundaries and Goodbye's. She has written many open books on her former marriage relationship and this one in 2022 after coming to a point where staying no longer was an option. As for whether or not I personally agree or disagree with divorce - I don't see much point in sharing that view. There's little benefit in turning someone's struggle, pain or personal decision (whatever that may be) into an opportunity to exact my opinion( especially when I don't the person and they haven't asked me for my personal feedback). I can hold to my own convictions without having to make sure someone else knows what it is. Often times, I can forget that a person willing to be vulnerable with others( especially strangers) is in need of , most of all, compassion and love. "[And the world will know we are His children if we have love for one another]" John 13:35.
@K.C, "know*"
Glennon Doyle's writing!
More and more women on Substack starting to write about divorce. Here's one: https://allisonhiltz.substack.com/