Milk vs. Water in Bread, and Limits on Screen Time at Chez FG
Every Monday, I answer a few of the questions that my readers send me. If you have a question you'd like me to answer in a future Q&A post, just leave me a comment here or email me (thefrugalgirl [at] gmail [dot] com) and put Q&A in the subject line. I look forward to hearing from you!
In one of your recipes, you put that you can use water in place of dairy. Does it change the texture at all if you use water ?
I'm curious, because milk is so expensive. We buy 4 gallons a week for my almost 19 year old son. He's a milk-aholic.
-Dorthey
Yep, you can always sub water for the milk in bread recipes. It does affect the texture a bit, though. Bread made with water will not be as soft or fluffy as bread made with milk, the crumb won't be as fine, and it will go stale faster as well.
Basically, the texture will be a bit more like my French bread than my hamburger buns.
Another option is to use reconstituted powdered milk when you're baking. Just mix it up according to the directions on the box (usually you put ⅓ c. of dry milk into a measuring cup and then add enough water to make 1 cup.)
I love the "Reader" pictures! Do you even own a TV? If so, how do you keep the kids from watching it or playing video games all day instead of reading? I'm really impressed that this day in age you have managed to raise your kids this way. Kudos to you as parents!!
-J. R.
Yep, we do have a TV. Actually, we have two! There's one in Joshua's room (hooked up to the Wii), and one in our office.
Notably, we have no TV in our living room. Having the TV in a more out-of-the-way spot helps us to only watch when we really want to (like when we watch a movie with the kids, or watch a show together).
Basically, it forces us to be intentional about TV-watching.
(Well, that and not having cable. It's not as tempting to plop down and search through Netflix/Amazon Prime offerings as it is to channel-surf!)
We're not completely opposed to TV/video games, though. Our kids get an allotment of screen time per day (30 mins on weekdays, an hour on weekends, with a timer set to keep track of it).
When they've used it, they've used it, and it's up to them to fill the rest of their time in screen-free ways.
We do make exceptions sometimes, like if a friend is over or we watch a movie together as a family, but mostly we stick with it.
And things like using the internet for a drawing or craft tutorial do not count toward screen time.
So, we've got technology in the house, and we let our kids use it, but we have limits.
I monitor the screen time of the younger two, but we've slowly moved to having our teenagers (Joshua and Lisey) police themselves a bit more as part of the gradual letting-go we'll try to do as they move toward adulthood.
Certainly, once our kids leave our home the limits will be up to them, but we hope that the somewhat minimal screentime habits will stick with them.
Full disclosure: My kids do complain of boredom sometimes, mostly in the summer, and when they do, I try to provide them with suggestions (Do a puzzle, draw, do a craft, play a card/board game, play outside, have a tea party, bake something, paint, read, etc.) rather than just doling out more screen time. Screen time is easier than all the other stuff I listed, and unless the screen time option is removed, many kids will just default to it and won't read/do puzzles/draw, etc.
Oh, and also I try to always have a good supply of books around for the kids to read. I can't expect them to spend a bunch of time reading if I don't provide books, so we always, always have a bunch of stuff checked out from the library.
P.S. In case it wasn't clear, I'm sharing what works for our family and I am not trying to say every family should operate this way.
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How do you handle screen time at your house? And how do you help your kids find screen-free activities?
Thanks for sharing your perspective and what you do in your home. My husband and I don't have kids yet, but have noticed that so many of our friends' children seem addicted to video games, iPads, even their parents smartphones (screaming and throwing tantrums whenever an electronic is taken from them). While we want our children to not depend on media for entertainment, we also know that it is almost impossible to prevent it totally and it can be useful in some circumstances. So I'll be interested to hear everyone's input on where and how to draw the line.
That's one fortunate thing about us being such late-adopters...we haven't had portable electronics until very, very recently, so our kids are really used to being screen-free when we're not at home.
In defense of your friends' kids, my kids (who have an even more limited screen time schedule than Kristin's kids, being 3 and 18months) absolutely flip their lids when you take the electronics away. Tantrums the size of Texas.
The difference between my kids and those kids of similar age/development that have no tech restrictions is that when my kids peel my eyes open in the are-you-kidding am, they are demanding a walk. After dinner, they want us to play memory or read a book. But if they SEE a phone, o man they WANT the phone, and they will stop at nothing to get it.
We have come to accept this as an inevitability, like children wanting candy.
Interesting! Perhaps the old adage, "everything in moderation" applies. I have noticed if the TV is on in our house and one of the neighbor kids who doesn't have TV comes over, they can't seem to stop looking at the screen. They could be watching some infomercial on property management and they are still mesmorized. It's like they are on drugs! My kids can easily walk away from it. That said, I still really admire folks who go sans TV!
I grew up in a screen-restricted household, no TV sorting the week, one hour per day on weekends, and this held true even when we got a computer, until the schools started assigning computer-based work like typed papers.
I am a visual learner. Very visual. I find TV incredibly distracting, even as an adult. I avoid restaurants with TVs, and if I end up in one, I try not to face it. When at my in-laws', I ask them to turn off the tv when they're trying to have a conversation, because I can't focus on anything auditory with that visual distraction.
So my opinion is that for some kids, TV isn't a big deal, they can function around it, but for others, especially visual learners, it's going to be a problem, whether you restrict our not.
It is a difficult line to draw with screen time having so many uses beyond just video games these days. My kids watch shows on Youtube that are not on regular tv. They text message their friends. They listen to music on their device. They read books and comic books on their devices. It can become very tricky to balance the useful with the frivolous. We have always limited our children and my 13 year old daughter will find other things to do such as reading, drawing, and listening to music. My 11 year old son has a harder time so we have to draw clearer lines with him. It's personality more than anything. Nonetheless, we have no control over what they do at friends' houses and they frequently are exposed to things we would prefer they weren't. It's a balancing act no matter what and as Kristen pointed out, you have to do what works for your family.
My kids don't read much on devices, but like you, I would not count that as screen time. I don't count music listening either...they can do that as much as they want.
I think you hit the nail on the head about reading. You have to have books available. They really can't just be up on a shelf, and they can't be the same ones all the time.
Having your (ever-revolving) library books in a tub in the living room is a great way to get the kids flipping through them and picking them up and reading them. For fun.
We really restrict screen time. Our children earn screen time like some earn an allowance. It's just a different currency. But we also just say "no minutes today" sometimes when behavior is off and we have kids who just need to play (whether they realize it or not).
W
Yes! Ours are in a basket in the living room, and I rearrange them sometimes so that forgotten-about books in the back are moved to the front. Sometimes I put a few on our side tables as well, because I find my kids read more if the books are easy to see.
Interestingly I've just (a few mins ago) posted about the Kids' and how they now schedule their Summer break. I hadn't noticed, until I read your post, that they haven't scheduled in TV ;). We do have TV's here, and technology. But I'm hoping that 90% of the time we are sensible in the usage. What I tend to do is if I am busy (say prepping dinner), I will sit them down at the kitchen table with craft stuff or pens and paper. I also ask them to read aloud to me so we can all enjoy the story as well. That way I can explain any words they may be reading but possibly not understanding.
Today's activity (despite the great weather) was baking bread and cakes. I've never used milk in a bread recipe. Always milk. But now I've seen your reply above I'm going to try milk. My bread definitely could do with a lift!
I so admire your limits with the screen time. I try to put it into effect with my girls but I'm afraid I haven't been on top of it as much as I should be. That said, they are really good about it when I do put limits on it. As for the TV, I have several friends who don't have TV and I so admire that also. I'm not ready to give our TV, however. I admit, I don't think the kids would care, but it's often my downtime when I get the kids to bed and am doing charting for work at the end of my evening. I do wish, however, that our TV wasn't right in the middle of the living room. Alas, we have a small two bedroom home and I hate the idea of the TV in the bedroom. We don't have any other family room. We have only the very basic cable so we can get reception. I'm considering getting rid of that and just streaming from netflix. Our cable box was on the fritz for about a week adn while we waited to have someone come out to fix it we just streamed from netflix using the xbox. I was shocked at the number of options one could watch using just Netflix!
If each kid has screen time, how do you handle it when a child who has already used her time wants to watch a show with her sibling?
I usually say no, but occasionally I flex, depending on the situation. Since they know I usually say no, they often plan ahead together ("Sonia, do you want to play Cooking Mama with me today??")
It's funny you should post this about milk vs water in bread, because I have just made your hamburger buns for the first time, and I did go "wow" at the quantity of milk in it (but only because it left us low on milk, and I now need to go buy some!)
That said, the burger buns are AMAZING!!! (and HUGE!)
I've never actually experimented with subbing water in. I just use whatever the recipe asks for, but maybe I'll try it in the future.
We cancelled our cable in the summer of 2002, right before our first child was born and we haven't looked back. Our kids enjoy watching movies but once they are done, that it, on to the next activity. Also, for the most part, there are no advertisements. They have of course seen TV at their friends' homes or at family members' homes but really, because they have been raised with out it, they do other things, such as read, play board games, jump on the trampoline, make bracelets, play with the dog, ride their bikes, etc. They both have ipods (no phones yet...I'm delaying that as looooong as possible) and use the computer. I don't have a specific time that they are allowed to use these devices because often they are using them for music, tutorials, recipes, or following up on something they want to learn more about. (Or reading over my shoulder as I enjoy the latest Frugal Girl post 🙂
Mr. FP is actually TERRIBLE about spending too much time browsing in Netflix or Amazon Prime (when we have one or the other, which we don't right now), adding thing to the queue/watch list and just looking, looking, looking. But he was the same way years ago when we would go to an actual video store (remember those?). I started refusing to go with him because he could be in there an hour!
My kids (2 and 3) seem to know that they get to watch Sesame Street after lunch, and that's about it--Big Brother gets sad when it's over, but doesn't usually ask at other times. (They usually fall asleep in the bike trailer on the way home from the YMCA before lunch, but aside from that, they generally won't nap anymore--and Mommy needs her coffee time!)
Once Mr. FG gets started browsing, then it can indeed take him forever. But with the TV in an out of the way spot, he's not as likely to start browsing as he'd be if the TV was in the living room.
Now that I think about it, he did take a while in video stores too (I totally remember those!).
I limit video games to an hour and dont allow tv when their with me during the day, although I'll allow an occasional movie. (When dad gets home they get to watch comics and movies with him for an hour.) Extra video game time if the older(10) does math. The 5 yr old doesn't get video games until he has behaved all day although he is allowed to watch his brother. They lose it the next day if they have trouble getting off. I redirect them to their books(action, comics), toys(action figure battles, lightsaber battles, legos), drawing(comics, 3d), listening to music, writing (action, video game based), playing outside etc. And they can always help me with my chores:)
Sorry, dont should be don't and their should be they're.
I'm curious what those with small kids do while traveling. I don't have kids myself (yet!), but I hear so many parents with young ones say they don't know what they'd do without the ipad to entertain kids in the car!
I seem to remember being able to entertain myself on long family roadtrips when I was younger, but perhaps I'm forgetting all the times I said "I'm bored!" 😉
I think I will tend to lean toward less screen time with my kids, especially while they're young, but I wonder if I'm just going to be making things harder on myself? Would love some input from those in the know 🙂
I have a 20month old little girl & we don't do any tv now. I think whether it's harder just depends on your lifestyle. Right now both my husband & I work full time, so she's in daycare most of the day & by the time we get home, eat dinner, & go for a walk (or to the park or library), it's pretty much time to get ready for bed, so there's not really time for tv, even if we wanted to.
My sister-in-law lets my nephew watch mickey mouse in the mornings because he gets up at 6am each morning & it keeps him busy (and keeps her sane) for 1/2-1 hour so she can get ready for the day & breakfast. I think if you are a stay at home parent it would take more deliberation/planning not to have any screen time as a lot of moms I know use screen time (for younger children) as either a break or a prep opportunity for lunch or dinner.
I'm a single parent so I've taken lots of long car rides with just me behind the wheel and my two girls in the back seat. Thankfully, they've always been good travelers. When they were little I had lot of crayons and coloring books, regular books, and they both had leap pads-not sure if those are still around. And they always both took lengthy naps in the car. Now they are 10 and soon to be 14 so they've moved on to ipods/iphones (hey, were talkign long car rides here, a mom's got to do what a mom's got to do-lol!). They still bring their books and they both still like to nap in the car. Again, I lucked out with two good travelers!
When our kids were all small, there were no ipads and such, so we listened to radio shows on tape, played bingo, brought drawing supplies, listened to music, and read books.
That said, I would certainly not be opposed to electronic entertainment for a long car ride. What you do all the time matters more than what you do once in a while, so I'd be fine with ipad/movies, etc. on long trips, as they only happen once in a while.
We have one tv in our house. We used to have tv day on the weekend but found that they would binge-watch so this year we switched to the token system. During the school year the kids have "tokens" which they made. They each get 6 tokens- three for one half hour tv show and three for fifteen minutes of video games. They can play a math educational video game whenever they want during the summer (teacher recommended games btw). We also sometimes have a family movie night. It was hard for my almost 6 year old son to turn off the tv and it's been better since he has the tokens and the power of when to watch. There are a few ground rules- no electronics before school in the morning or before 7 am on the weekends. We don't do electronics on playdates unless it's a movie date. (Video games personally drive me nuts- I've always hated them even since Pong- they stress me out but I'm trying to acknowledge that my kids are not me and there is a certain social relevancy to [age appropriate] gaming).
We live in Los Angeles so the kids spend a lot of time in the car. For local drives we listen to books on cd and music. For road trips they are allowed to watch shows when we are driving through industrial places or places where we've already been but when we get near our destination- Yosemite for instance- the show goes off, music comes on and they can soak up the scenery. I'm not sure how this will change as the kids get older (our daughter is 8) but I agree about music and books any time! My kids love to fly because then they can watch as many shows on the ipad as they want and they are allowed to have gingerale. Our extended family lives overseas and on the East Coast so our flights are long. By keeping tv novel and gingerale a rare treat the kids absolutely love even the flying part of seeing their grandparents and it makes the trip easy on all of us.
When the kids tell me they are bored it's like a red cape to a bull! Drives me nuts so my solution is if they whine about being bored I give them each a box or trashbag and tell them to sort through all of their "boring" stuff so we can give it away to someone who might not find it boring. This either spurs them to find something to do or it helps us declutter. They like giving away things they no longer use- either to smaller cousins or friends or to charity. I figure it's a win-win all around. 🙂
We have 2 kids, 6 and 3. We use screen time as an extreme back-up, like the kids are about to melt into screaming dinosaurs in a tiny plane situations.
We recently took a trip from Seattle to Minnesota. No screen time during any of the traveling. We have them each a backpack and told them they could bring whatever tips they wanted, as long as they fit in the backpack. They both packed very well, some favorite tips that lend themselves week to imaginative play, like you cars or Little People, plus a few books. No breakdowns, no begging for my kindle.
We've traveled all over the country with our five kids since they were tiny babies. I've found that magna doodles are life savers! No mess, no missing pens, and they can erase and draw again! They can also use the boards to hold small notebooks to write or hold toys.
We have very similar rules in our house. They are also tied to their chores and school work. If they are not done there is no screen time.
What are your rules on your older kids and the books they read? Do you monitor this? Not time but content. I'm finding this difficult as my kids get older?
I do, yes. The books they read are generally library books, so I know what they're checking out. So far they haven't wanted to read anything I'd have vetoed, so I'm not too experienced with this!
I struggle with figuring this one out, too. My 10yo and 8yo are voracious readers, and a brief glance at the library does not always weed out sometimes sneaky messages. But I don't want to be a book Nazi. I don't think I can possibly read every book they pick up (because they read fast and a lot). This year I started blogging, and in two of them I'm attempting to review books (one for boys and one for girls) so parents can read and have some information without reading a book themselves. Obviously, it's quite limited since I don't have so much time to read tons of books. I just thought that if I could help some other parents in the same position, then I should try.
This is perfect timing.My "post schedule" this week includes TV free activities for kids.As much as possible, we minimize their time watching TV,we do fun activities like going to the library,book coloring,taking a nap or we walk few blocks while pulling them in a wagon. It's so much fun when TV watching is limited.
I also use powdered milk in all my recipes since milk is pretty expensive!
About bread. I have tried using scalded milk in place of warm water in bread, and personally, I don't like the texture as well. I may have to try an actual recipe — my bread-making is heritage, not recipe. 😀
About screen time. Each child gets to choose half an hour of screen time. Sometimes this means all three of the big ones play LeapPad, simultaneously, for 30 minutes. Sometimes this means each chooses a separate TV episode (usually Peg+Cat or Wild Kratts or another PBS episode). If it's the latter, then of course everyone watches, and that 90 minutes seems like forever. That strategy could probably stand some work, but I haven't figured out how to make that more fair.
Up until two years ago, when I worked full time At A Place, with a 40-some-mile commute, of course we had neither homemade bread nor screen time. Frankly, this is a win, even if it isn't a perfect strategy.
I had to laugh at the mom who buys 4 gallons of milk a week for her 18 yr old - oh my!!!
When my son was still at home we bought two gallon a week for the family but he drank most of it.(our limit was two because that was what was in our budget - he could have drank much more than that) I often had to say, 'this milk has to last this many days so ration it out'. Once he was frustrated with me & said he wished he could just drink all the milk he wanted without worrying about running out. So, for Christmas that year, my husband gave him a gallon of milk & told him he could drink as much as he wanted. :o)
Another funny: when my daughter-in-law helped him stock his kitchen for the 1st time - when they were engaged - she bought 1/2 a gallon of milk. My son's shock was hilarious. He held it up & said - THIS is NOT going to work!. He drank the 1/2 gallon that 1st evening.
My thought was, switch to whole milk, and make him pay for anything over 1 gallon per week! Nutritionally, he doesn't need more than that, and if he's that hungry, whole milk will provide more calories per cup, and hopefully he'll drink less with the calorie requirement filled sooner.
I can't believe that the first 27 commenters didn't mention this! Finally, Jen Y brought it up. Frankly Dorothy's question nearly set my hair on fire. Milk is NOT all that expensive, but four gallons a week sure is. Her 19-year-old son could be buying his own milk at this point. I'd recommend that his parents buy the equivalent of a gallon, two at most and then have him pay for anything else he consumes himself. Oh my goodness, that's so much sugar! My teeth hurt writing this. Fast fact: Four gallons of 1% milk contains 832 grams of sugar!
I felt like 4 gallons was a lot, but since Dorthey's question wasn't about that, I opted to just answer the baking question.
On the one hand, it could be worse...he could be drinking 4 gallons of soda per week!
Oh, I really didn't expect you to comment, but I thought surely a reader would have. After all, this is a site to help folks who want to live more frugal lives. The term "milk-aholic" felt like enabling, or that Dorthey was concerned more about the price of the milk, which is not the real issue. (Apologies for the earlier misspelling, Dorthey.)
While I agree that four gallons of soda would be far worse, I am reminded of this quote: “Once one becomes a man, he can and must make his own decisions. But I do offer warning. Even a good thing can become destructive if taken to excess.”
― Brandon Sanderson, The Alloy of Law
I made the mistake of substituting heavy cream for the milk in your rolls recipe this morning....it tastes great but boy was the dough oily and it didn't rise very much. I guess I could have either cut back on the butter, or I probably should have done half cream and half water. Lesson learned. 🙂
Oh, I've done that before too...and yes, it makes SUCH a greasy dough!
When my children were young and lived at home, we operated the same way with regard to tv. Living very rural, we did not have cable, etc., but neither was Netflix around back then, lol. One exception was that my kids wouldn't tell us they were bored when they had free time. There were always chores that could be done and I was more than happy to designate a "bored" person to a task, lol. As adults, my daughter had no television in her home (she will use the computer to watch what she wants), and my son and his wife live in town and have free cable with their apartment. He says he would much rather have free internet.
I quickly learned that for a kid in public school "Have you finished your homework?" could have shades of meaning when it was a criteria for tv time. So, the rule in our house has always been NO tv during the school week, 2 hours on weekends, and our kids learned to make good use of the DVR to see what they wanted to see in those hours. During the summer it's more liberal than that.
But my kids both have Kindles and iPods, and this summer the TV has hardly ever been on--everyone is reading. The highlight of our big family car trip was a visit to Powell's bookstore in Portland--4 story building with thousands of square feet of new and used books. Our "souvenir" of the trip was a grocery bag full of books, and everyone was thrilled.
Oldest daughter is entering her senior year of college but she still follows the no tv during the week rule during school time.
That's not just limited to public school kids...mine sometimes have sort of fuzzy answers for the, "Have you finished your chores?" question. Ha.
We use powdered milk almost exclusively. Sometimes I use evaporated milk in soups or sauces to make them more creamy. I definitely prefer half and half in my coffee, but powdered is so much more economical. I buy a really good brand that is low heat and non-instant so the flavor is much better than the standard brands. However, I agree that any powdered milk would work well in breads. I am impressed with the way you manage the screen time for your children. Thanks for the post!
The screen time issue is huge for me. While we only have one TV, and it's in the living room. The kids are obsessed with TV/computer/kindle. Not sure what would be an appropriate time limit for them. Plus, how does it work when they watch TV or play a computer game together? I've gotten huge push back from them on screen restriction and my dh is not entirely on board.
We learned very early not to complain of boredom. My mom would just say, "Only boring people get bored" over and over like a broken record. My dad though would say, "Oh, really? You must not have enough work to do. Here, I have a list. First you can go and clean out the garage..." It was very effective. My son is only two and a half and thus has not yet complained of boredom, but I am going with my dad's strategy when he does. So far, we allow an occasional episode of Daniel Tiger or Sesame Street, maybe a couple of times a month.
Please keep in mind that I am the mother of one single boy under the age of three, but so far, the key seems to be keeping electronics out of sight. I am sure that this will change drastically as he gets older. But right now, if I am on my phone or computer all day, he naturally wants to do that, too. So I try to limit MY screen time to after he is in bed, or during his naps.
I grew up without a TV and although I hated it at times I am very grateful for this now. Now we do have a TV, but I don't watch every day and if I do, it is usually a movie or documentary. I observe that I am much more creative, have much more interests than many people around me that grew up with TV and watch TV every day. I try to keep my kids away from the TV too. They do watch TV- usually on the weekend for around 1-2 hours alltogether. We don't track time. So the kids play outside or have to find something else to do by themselves or with my help. And yes- the are bored at times and it is important to me to let them get over boredom themselves.