Can relationships cross socio-economic levels?
Can relationships work across socio-economic levels? A reader sent me a direct message the other day on Instagram asking if I would do a post about this.
I think this reader was not wondering something like, "Hey, will it work for me to be friends with someone who has less money than I do?" Rather, I think she was struggling more with the difficulties presented by being friends with someone with much more money than she does.
Also, I don't think she was asking about romantic relationships; she's referencing friend and family relationships. And I gather that she was having a bit of trouble not feeling less-than or resentful about the disparity between her and her wealthier relations.
My experiential credentials
I don't tend to mix with people who have personal yachts or anything, but I do definitely have family members who have more money than I do.
And in the leaner years of my early adulthood, almost everyone I knew had more money than I did!
(When you have four kids and are living on around $35K a year, that tends to be the case. Ahem.)
So, I have a little bit of experience with this.
The level of disparity matters
I would say that I struggled with this inequality way more during the super-lean years. We were not far above the poverty level, and at that point, finances cause a lot of stress. You have to agonize over nearly every tiny purchase, and a lot of things and experiences are out of reach.
Every time you turn around, there's another thing you can't afford, and it's not yacht-level stuff!
I can remember being around a group of moms who were talking about their plans to buy more produce, eat more nuts and go organic, and how it's really not all that much more money, and I remember thinking that such a plan was out of reach for me.
I couldn't even afford regular nuts, other than peanuts!
This type of thing is exhausting after a while, and this exhaustion can easily turn into sadness when you look around and see other people who have even a little bit more financial cushion.
At $35K a year, $50K sounds like positive bliss!
Now, even on my own, I have more financial wiggle room than I did back then, and finances are not causing me a terrible amount of stress. I've got what I need.
So, when I look at someone who has more money than I do, I really am not bothered.
And I gotta say, I am very, very happy to be able to buy lots of produce. And nuts other than peanuts. 😉
(This reminds me of the way that money DOES increase happiness quotients when it gets a person out of poverty. But beyond that, more money doesn't correlate strongly with more happiness.)
The attitudes of the richer people matter
When I think about people like my brother, or my aunt and uncle that I visited this summer in Wisconsin, I am reminded that attitudes are what really matter.
These family members have waterfront homes, boats, jet-skis, paddleboards, and such, but they are so kind and generous; they share what they have.
My aunt and uncle host various family members all summer long at their cabin in Wisconsin, feeding them, taking them out on the boat, and sharing all their water toys.
My brother routinely shares his boat and jet skis with family and friends.
My parents have spent decades sharing their pool with family, friends, and neighbors.
I always get the sense that they all think of their possessions as things to share and enjoy with others, not as things to flaunt.
So. I think when people with money also have a generous and kind attitude, it's very easy to be around them, even when you have less money.
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On a less-positive note, I've written before about an experience I had at a baby shower when I was 23.
You can read about it here, but basically, I was Poor Mom, and this lady that we'll call Wealthy Mom related to me in a way that made me feel super out of place.
I don't think the disparity in our incomes was the problem, though; it was definitely an attitude issue.
The attitude of the less-rich person matters
It's a little paradoxical, but sometimes those of us who are less wealthy can develop an attitude that looks down on people with more money, as though everyone with more money has screwed-up values and is overworked and unhappy.
Sometimes we say things like, "Well, they may have more money, but at least my family is happier."
Or, "They may have a big house, but our family values what's important."
Or, "Yeah, they have a lot of stuff, but it was given to them. I'm only impressed with people who work hard for their success."
It is true that some people with money do work too much and do place too much value on material things, and I'm sure some of them are unhappy as well. Some people definitely had their wealth handed to them.
But blanket statements aren't helpful (they're not true all of the time, for every person), and besides, making yourself feel better about your situation by criticizing someone else? That might give you a short boost, but I really don't think it's a sustainable path to peace and contentment.
Your contentment level matters
If you bring discontentment, envy, or a feeling of less-than into a situation or relationship, you are probably going to struggle if there's economic disparity in a relationship. But if you bring an attitude of contentment, you'll probably feel peaceful about someone else's riches.
I currently have enough money to meet my needs. I do not stress about being able to pay my rent each month, I have enough in savings to cover unexpected expenses, and I'm going to be able to pay for my schooling.
But it would certainly be possible for me to frame that another way, a way that would make me feel less-than.
- I'm currently renting instead of owning.
- My car is over 10 years old, and it's a minivan (which is arguably not the sexiest vehicle ever.)
- Most of my house is furnished with free hand-me-down furniture.
- My health insurance situation is going to become more challenging in 2023.
- My financial future is rather up in the air; I'm in mid-life, and the financial plan I had is going to be dismantled. No matter how the dust settles, this change is not going to be a financial upgrade.
If I focused on those aspects of my life, I might feel a little resentful around other people who have more than I do. But honestly, I feel pretty content with my situation. I have what I need, plus a little more.
If someone else has more than me, that's ok. I am at peace with what I have, and no one else's financial situation needs to have an effect on my own contentment.
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In summary: I think relationships between people of different income levels can work, but a lot depends on:
- the level of disparity
- the attitudes of both parties
Alrighty. I'm 1200 words into this, and that's probably enough of my perspective. I'd love to hear yours!
I agree with your thoughts here, and will just add that it's more complicated if you have older children in this scenario, as well. Because then you have to explain to them why they are different, and very few kids are okay being different. I feel very lucky to live in a place with not too much income disparity--there may be people who are very wealthy in ranch land, but that doesn't mean much if they're not selling it--so this doesn't come up nearly as much as it did in other places we've lived. I see it, though, when we visit or are visited by my family, who are all much wealthier than we are, and I'm glad I don't have to deal with it daily.
Oh yes, this is a good point. You can control your own attitudes, but you have less sway over your children's attitudes and reactions (and they don't have the maturity skills that adults do either!).
@kristin @ going country, Absolutely! We're not poor (kind of in the middle) but my daughter does notice that our house isn't that big compared to some others, we don't have a pool, she doesn't have a phone/tablet, we don't go to Disney World etc.
@Battra92,
I am happy to say we never ever went to Disney World (Paris is closest) with our now grown kids. I used to feel we were bad parents but on hind sight they do not care in the slighest and I am secretly relieved not to have been in the noise, and queues.
My son once wrote RICH HOUSE! in chalk on our driveway. I said, "Why would you write that?" He said, "Because we're rich." I said, "Daddy and I have been very fortunate but it's in very bad taste to boast about it. Now rinse it off before anyone sees it."
First off: I feel that you actually are in a situation of financial upgrade, you just don't realize it yet because you aren't done with school...
When Hubby and I graduated from college we had friends our same age that seemed to be on a faster, more financially secure track than we were. I remember distinctly feeling like we were being left behind on the road to success. At one point, we had two children under the age of two and a looming bankruptcy. We were so ashamed about our poor choices and poor bank accounts that we covered it up with smiles and nonchalance, never asking for help from our parents, even. I shopped at thrift stores and bought very cheap food and we never told anyone how dire our situation was. How can you justify asking for help when on the outside it looked like you had everything - a house, kids, jobs, cars...But we knew the state of our bank account and that we were one paycheck away from disaster and it was ramen noodles for dinner. We survived, but not all of our friendships did. There was just too much disparity and comparison going on. If only I knew then what I know now.
And this post has given me much to think about going forward.
Oh I have so many thoughts on this! I think this really really depends on whether we are talking about a romantic relationship of some kind versus an extended family or friendship relationship.
I’ve been on both sides of it in a romantic relationship, first the one who came from the “poorer” family background (air quotes HEAVILY necessary here) and now, I am the one with the “wealthier” family background. It’s honestly complicated!
I have been lucky that overarching attitudes have been an issue. Everyone has been kind and welcoming all around. It’s more about… the reasoning that underpins the choices you make? Does that make sense?
For example, my ex came from a family with a lot of generational wealth. The way that they looked at the world was so different! They acted with the complete security that they had a safety net if they failed— whether money to fall back on or the money to call someone to make the problem go away. Buy a 100 year old house with questionable wiring and unknown roof issues? No problem, we can always pay someone to make that problem go away.
By contrast, my current partner comes from a family that has always been working class. He joined the military straight out of high school because they couldn’t even dream of affording university, married someone from a similar background, left 20 years later without degree or access to a world with other options that being in the military or police (men) or an admin assistant (women). Now his oldest daughter is graduating high school, and I am the only adult she knows other than her teachers who has a different kind of job. The pressure is very much on from her mom to work a fast food job while she finishes high school and immediately get into the workforce, even if that risks limiting her future job prospects as much as it did her parents’. Her dad/my partner really wants to see his kids have a different set of choices than he did, but, as above, it’s complicated!
Why the resentment against people who had their wealth “handed to them?”
In that line of thinking, we will also resent people who have other things handed to them - high intelligence, growing up in a stable family, being particularly good looking, etc.
Where does the envy end?
Well, I think sometimes people look down on inherited wealth as less impressive, because the person didn't exactly earn the money themselves.
But it's not like many millionaires are truly self-made anyway. Most of the time, the people at the top of the food chain have had some kind of advantages that got them there, even if it's an advantage like being born with high intelligence, or growing up in a family that encouraged entrepreneurship, or heck, even being born good-looking.
I really don't think anyone is truly just self-made!
And I also think that there are plenty of people who resent the things you listed; I don't think it's healthy, but it definitely happens.
@Kathy L, One of my friends (she used to be a model, now she's married to an art dealer) just yesterday put the commercial she starred in with her kids for Porsche on her Facebook page. Porsche, blonde gorgeous mom, three blonde gorgeous children, hard to not to swallow some envy. Her children went to the best private schools in Manhattan, and now are all at top colleges. Money, looks, brains.
This is what John Scalzi - highly successful SF author, who a few years ago signed a 10 year multi-million dollar book deal, who famously was very poor as a child, including periods of homelessness - wrote about being a self-made person.
https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/23/a-self-made-man-looks-at-how-he-made-it/
@WilliamB, what a great article!
@WilliamB, awesome piece; thanks for sharing.
@Kristen, I always think that self-made rich Americans had the advantage of living in this country, where there are not only opportunities but the infrastructure (like the highway and air transport systems that Amazon uses) to maximize their efforts. I know there are other places with some of the same advantages but our system is so pro-business that there are incentives and advantages that other countries would tax more or have laws that limit income disparities. I think Obama's statement about no one successful made it all on their own was used against him in many quarters, but I think he spoke the truth. I am sure my view also comes from having a father who came here with nothing and never did speak English without a heavy accent, yet he managed to build a very successful business despite some of the odds against him.
@WilliamB, THank you for this link.
@Lindsey, Lucille Ball made the same kind of statement when receiving some kind of award: We all know that no one ever does anything by themselves.
It really rubs me the wrong way when people with money are unkind to those who are doing the best they can. When my son was little, he was in a Cub Scout pack led by a mom who was quite wealthy. I and another mom were the only ones who regularly helped out and provided snacks. Because my household budget was tiny at the time, I would bring the kids store-brand dinosaur- or shark-shaped fruit snacks, cheese crackers and a jug of store-brand juice.
One afternoon, the wealthy mom snapped at me to "stop feeding them that crap." My face turned as red as a stop sign. She never thanked us for helping out, wrangling children, cleaning up the meeting space. The other mom (who was frankly poor) and I knew that if we stopped coming, the pack would quickly disband because seven or eight lively little boys would be too much for one person to handle, even if she did look down on both of us.
I stopped bringing my snacks and left snack duty up to the wealthy mom, who complained about having so much to do. Like opening the wrapper of a package of Chips Ahoy! is so difficult?
Aww, I would have been hurt by that comment as well. It really showed a lack of sensitivity and empathy!
@Ruby, That was just rude whether you had the same amount of money or not.
My only concern about financially disparate friendships would be not to get caught in the cycle of "buying" friendship or allowing yourself to "be bought." In other words, don't accept or offer large, unequal gifts, especially money. Over time, this is a recipe for disaster.
@Bobi, this can be tricky, can't it! I have four kids and I had a friend with no kids who was quite wealthy who was always giving me really nice things for Christmas and my birthday. It was very thoughtful of her and I don't think she ever intended for me to reciprocate on an equal level, but it did become a sticking point when she was hurt that I didn't always even remember her birthday. Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure if the issue was a difference in finances or difference in how we viewed the important of gift giving and holidays in general. Hmmm.
@christie, I was hurt badly a few years ago when my sister decided we weren't going to exchange gifts any more, probably because her cheap husband complained about the cost. I loved looking for and picking out cool gifts for her.
That said, I have a close friend who gets annoyed at me if I don't remember to say something on the anniversary of his partner's death, so I try to remember, but I certainly don't expect anyone else to remember my father's death date or my brother's. (Actually, I send my mother flowers on their birthdays.)
@Bobi, so true. Gifts are tricky! One of my wealthy sisters whom I have written about below is childless. I have three children. Every Christmas she bought gifts for my three kids. Rather than buying three inexpensive gifts for her, my kids and I would go shopping to pick out one special thing. So I gave them two gifts, my sister gave my family 3. This infuriated her and she would complain. So I explain to her that a gift comes from the heart. It’s not an obligation. It told her that it was fine if she didn’t give my children gifts at all. They never gave or received another gift from her. I don’t think they noticed,
@Rose,
My mom and two of my three sisters buy *very expensive* gifts for family members....like, $250 dresses imported from Europe for my teenage nieces' birthdays. They make about as much as I do, well, mom is retired - I have the cheap husband who sets a $ limit on gifts I can buy for family - and I'm glad that he does. There's no way I could "keep up" with the gifts given by my mom and sisters, so I try and find cool gifts that fall within my budget. While my gifts don't get as much unbridled excitement as the very expensive gifts do, I know that I'm doing what is right for my family.
@Liz B., which is fine. I don't expect parity in gifts--what I would like is the ability just to exchange gifts.
Three years ago I made my niece a wonderful terrarium. I was so proud of it. It was large, with rocks, tiny ferns, a fake waterfall I made out of resin and a large blue resin lagoon edged with stones. I put tiny fossils in the dirt next to the glass and said it was the terrarium's fossil record, and tiny plastic fish in the pond, as well as tiny red mushrooms among the small ferns.
My sister complained about it, calling my niece (then 11) a "poor kid" for getting that present from me. My sister made it clear that gold jewelry was the gift she expected from me. Still disappointed. I'm sure the whole thing was tossed in the trash after a couple weeks when the little plants died because my niece couldn't be expected to mist them every few days. Whatever.
@Liz B., Now that I think about it further, I don't know that I am OK with that. Why should the cheap husband get to decide what money should be spent on gifts? Because he's the man? What about familial customs? Hurt feelings? Not as important as money?
Gotta tell you, I am much less close to my sister since she married El Cheapo. I can't stand him, have never been able to stand him, didn't want to be matron of honor at her wedding because of him.....etc. His miserly attitude is not something I ever want to be a part of.
@Bobi, not everyone willing to spend extra on their friends who have less is trying to buy them though. My husband and I are more financially secure than many of our friends and family because of good jobs and being the only ones who don't have children. I try to be generous because I can, not to curry favor. Treating a friend to a brunch that she'd like to attend but it would be financially stressful for her when it wouldn't affect my bottom line just feels natural to me, for example. That said, these cases are with friends good enough that we talk about our finances, and I'll openly but generically share something like: "I'm lucky enough to be very comfortable financially, and happy to take a little extra burden sometimes if that makes time spent together less stressful." That said, we are careful not to flaunt. For example, we get gifts for my nephews that are no bigger or flashier than anyone else is giving them, but also provide $/investments on the side to help bolster their future savings. I think it feels obvious to me that people give/contribute according to their means and disparages on those levels shouldn't immediately cause heartache.
@Rose,
I would have *loved* getting that terrarium! I adore handmade (homemade, hand assembled, etc) gifts that come from the heart. I'm sorry it was not received by someone who would truly appreciate it. And yes, being able to exchange gifts would be delightful....I'm also sorry that decision was made for you, not by you.
And, I probably framed my statement incorrectly. Hubby is frugal, and so am I - he is more frugal than I am - he suggests how much to spend, and I take that as a guideline. (That always makes me think of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, lol). No, he doesn't decide because he's the man, or any such thing. I don't expect $250 dresses (or other $$ gifts) for myself, and spending that much on each family member's birthday just doesn't fit into our budget. He is not miserly, in fact, he is incredibly generous to me, our son, our community, and to causes we believe in. It's all about spending your money where it matters most.
@Bee, I am lucky in that my sister and I somehow both ended up loving to find each other gifts for the least cost possible. Not sure how it started because it really was not how we were raised but now the hunt for good but very cheap is the best part of buying for each other. (She is still the queen for paying zero for a load of manure for my garden. The next year I needed more, so my husband asked her if he could steal her idea and did. I love aged animal poop.) I am so sorry your sibling did not see the care and love behind your gifts to her, and that she took it out on your kids by never getting them another gift from her.
I'll chime in as someone who is often on the "has more money" side of family relationships. I grew up without much money, and my family all works & has reasonable jobs, but we make a lot more. My husband & I got lucky with very well paid jobs in tech. My dad, for example, is a retired teacher. There is a large gap between pay in those fields, to say the least.
Money doesn't come up often, in our family discussions. My parents have saved well for their retirement, and my sister & I have both encouraged them to a) enjoy as much as they can while they are health and b) leave anything leftover to our collective four kids. We do pay for travel, and treat my parents/sister/nephews to trips. We've had discussions about it, and my family understands that we really want to travel together, and even a non fancy vacation adds up quickly, when you need space or flights for quite a few people. Examples: we took my parents to Hawaii for my parents 50th anniversary, my sister & I have taken my mom to Las Vegas & Hawaii for her 60th & 70th birthday, respectively. I'm taking my sister to France for her 50th. I can't think of a better way to spend our money, than sharing it with travel experiences with the people I love most. My sister & parents often offer to cover meals, or something else during the trip. They are very appreciative of our time together, and the gift, and I feel so lucky that our family is so close, and money (in either direction) doesn't come between us.
On the immediate family side, we live in the bay area, and it feels like everyone around us has a ton of money. We do try to keep our kids in check, and ensure they understand the value of hard work. This area has some challenges, in not raising entitled kids, in my opinion. It's a really delicate balance.
@Hawaii Planner, I have noticed the generosity you show to your family on many occasions. I think that is wonderful.
@Hawaii Planner, as a recipient of a trip to England from my generous mother and sister, I can say your generosity is most appreciated. We grew up as missionary kids, so very poor. My parents were frugal and taught us to be fiscally wise and generous at the same time. Starting over as a single mom in my 30s put me seriously behind my family and peers and though I'm working hard to follow those principles, I couldn't have joined them on the trip without their help. But the time spent together as mother and daughters was so rich and wonderful for all of us, they never begrudged helping me go and I was grateful for the close time with them. Generosity is definitely not always 'buying' friends and does not need to cause discomfort. What a blessing for you to be in the position to delight in generosity.
When I have struggled to accept help over the past 5 years, my mom points out that one must be willing to accept grace as well as give it for others love to give as well and need gracious receivers.
@Bee, ah, thank you! I feel so lucky to have a family that we all really enjoy spending time together.
@Mia B., that's so great to hear, Mia! I've worked an extra year at a job that I don't much enjoy, as it was really important to me to have the budget to help others (whether that be charitable contributions, trips with family, etc). It makes me really happy & we all enjoy the time together so much. My family helps me out in many, many, many non-monetary ways. No one is keeping score, but I'm endlessly grateful for my parents, who will be at our house next week to stay with the kids while we celebrate our anniversary.
I think your mom is right - when handled graciously on both sides, it can be such a gift. I'm so happy you had the trip with your mom & sister. What a wonderful experience.
Attitude matters so much! We make soooooo much less than any of our friends, but they have only ever expressed admiration at how hard we’ve made that money work (debt free despite several big medical scares, paid off house), my Goodwill savvy, and our thinking outside the “Is there another, less expensive way?” box. When we finally went from renting to buying a home, those same friends donated their time and vehicles on moving day as well as gift cards and still more time to help get the house move-in ready beforehand. During the peak of the pandemic, I ran errands for them when running ours, loaned movies, and was always available for a distanced visit in the backyard or a phone call when the loneliness became too much. When a friend treated himself to a new motorcycle, I was genuinely happy for him, as he *loves* to ride; meanwhile, he admires that I dote on my nearly forty-year-old car. There is no tally or judgment between any of us, just love. Someone who doesn’t understand that isn’t going to find themselves in our circle, regardless of income.
Side note: I’m usually the lame duck at a kid’s birthday party/shower! I try for practical but thoughtful gifts (tons of baby wipes and treats for mom and dad if new parents) or experiential (like easy baking mixes for a neighbor’s five-year-old who genuinely loved to “help” in the kitchen). It’s definitely weird to be the one who brought the cake mixes when someone else gives a $100+ inflatable pool just beforehand!
@N, I should specify that there was more to the gift than just baking mixes—like her own bowl and measuring cups so said child would quit stealing the ones from the kitchen—but yeah, I’m lame. 😛
@N,
I like your gift idea - I think it's a good one.
@N,
I think the cake mix and products to use in baking (along with a lesson, maybe?) is a brilliant and thoughtful gift. It's exposing someone to something they may end up enjoying and opening "new" doors and experiences.
I remember the son of a friend who got a similar creative gift from one of his mum's friends. He also received some very expensive toys from his wealthy relatives. He was so thrilled by the gift his mum's friend gave him (Tix to a local play that happened to be inexpensive), he still talks about it as an adult. It opened him up to theater at a very young age.
It's not the cost, it's the thought. It's hard to be around when others are bestowing expensive gifts (especially if a child, or adult, is ungracious about your gift, as happens.) that cost more. Hopefully, one's life is NOT filled with folks with what I would call entitlement issues and/or lack of gratitude for what they are given.
My uncle bought me books and read to me and I remember and cherish that more than all the toys I was given when I was a child.
My absent father sent interesting gifts from around the world. As an adult, I can look back and appreciate what they cost. As a child, all I knew and cared about was that he was NEVER present when the presents arrived. Presence trumps gifts no matter.
Over the years as friends and I have seesawed in income (many of us are independent contractors long before there was a gig economy), we have found so many creative ways (also low or no cost) to "gift" each other. Often it is the other person offering to do something we need, but can't afford or do on our own. Something as simple as cooking/sharing a few meals every now and then.
I've known people of great wealth (inherited and created) all my life. Luckily, only a few had attitude issues but I chose to not be around them as much as possible.
Interestingly, from my experience, it's often folks with money who are very careful (polite way of saying cheap) and limited in gift giving versus what they can afford. More often folks with limited budgets save up to give presents or sacrifice something they want or need to give to another.
It's not how much you have, but, as you rightly point out, your attitude about money; your ability to happily share (to me, what else is one's good fortune about but to share with others? Seriously.) with others and to not make income/financial situations a matter of judgment.
Many people work hard (multiple jobs, all their lives); struggle and still manage to give and have fun.
One of the most unhappy and uncaring individuals I knew (and worked for) was super wealthy. OMG. Their attitude was that everyone was out to take money off them, mooch, etc. They were constantly thinking that others were only liking them for their money. (True in some cases as they were also somewhat famous in their industry, but not always the case.)
Money brings it's own sets of issues. But the disparity should not be what creates a wall between individuals.
And for those of us whose financial circumstances become tight over time (not everyone retires with a pension) we have to learn that not everyone wishes us to give gifts, etc when we really can't afford them. (Have one friend who STILL struggles with this because his nieces and nephews are very well off and he still feels less than when he can't give them all. Even though they have pretty much begged him NOT to give gifts...he also has trouble accepting their gifts because he feels he can't "return" them.
Gifting, loving. Not a quid pro quo.
Give of yourself. Be creative.
@Irena, here is another twist on gifts. My daughter's in laws give VERY nice toys to the grandkids. We give one small toy and money for their educational account. This year my daughter was going to have a combined birthday party for my grandson because this year my son in law's family has moved here.
But later my daughter asked me if I wanted to come over another time. I thought about it and said yes that would probably be best.
@N, you are not lame, you are fabulously creative. What a wonderful gift.
My in-laws have a lot more money than my family ever did and when I entered the relationship with my now wife, I was making a lot more than she did. Now we're getting closer to equal.
I can tell you some of the times where we felt some friction related to income:
* She always had her own room. I had my own room when I was an adult.
* She went on vacations every year. We rarely went on vacation.
* She had birthday parties, friends sleeping over, going to sleepovers etc. I never had a friend at my parents' house until after I was graduated from high school.
So yeah, your early life experiences can totally differ in that regard and sometimes we still have differing opinions based on what was "normal" to us growing up.
On the flip side, I taught her how to budget, how to coupon and grocery shop (not that couponing is a skill worth having in 2022 but I digress) and can sometimes temper things down a bit when she loses track of how much things cost. I also handle the saving and investing side of things.
We aren't poor now although now and again my poor brain will kick in, particularly in social settings (much like your baby shower story) where I will be surrounded by people with more money, more status, from a different political point of view etc. It could just be comfort with what I know but I tend to be more comfortable around farmers and hicks than around city people even if my particular interests are more common in a city than in the country.
@Battra92, If you ever decide to move, consider Alaska. We give new meaning to the word hicks and are proud of it!
Well written, Kristen, and I agree with you - attitude makes a ton of difference.
It can be very hard to be the one with less resources when dealing with people who have more. I remember back in the 90's there was an event my kids wanted to go to, and another mother and I were talking it over with the leader. There were to be lots of fundraisers to defray the trip costs, but a down payment would need to be made first, to secure the event registration and lodging. We asked what the down payment for the weeklong event would be, and the leader said, "One hundred dollars."
The other mother immediately pulled out her checkbook and asked, "Is it okay if I pay you now?" I really liked this other mother, her kids were very close with mine and very dear to me, but I struggled with resentment. I was going to have to go home and look over our bills and my checkbook before I could pay the unexpected $100 in time for the deadline, if my kids were going to go, and it embarrassed me that I couldn't say, "Here's my check, too," right then. I remember thinking how nice it must be to know you had 100 extra dollars in your checking account without even looking. It took me a while to re-adjust my attitude, but I managed it. This dear woman loved my kids and was very generous with them. She wasn't trying to make me look or feel bad. She was just more fortunate than me financially at that particular stage of life.
If the person is truly someone with whom you have a mutual affection, and they aren't flaunting their money or acting bitter because you have more, then focus on the person and the relationship, not the income. It can be easier said than done, but the relationship should be more important than the money. Attitude is definitely key.
It is erroneous to believe that one can determine socioeconomic level by looking @ lifestyles like frequent travel/dining out or expensive possessions like million-dollar homes, pools, boats, snowmobiles, luxury or sports cars, etc. I have found many times that these people have massive debt & live paycheck to paycheck. Alternatively, there are people who live significantly below their means who have vast wealth. Life is often an illusion. Perhaps remembering this could help folks when feeling that they have less than others & thereby enhancing contentment which is the ultimate key to happiness.
@Lisa M.,
This is so well written and so true.
@Bee, Thanks for your kind words.
The key seems to be the ability to focus on the important & wonderful things in one's own life, versus comparison to others whose grand lifestyle or possessions may be, in fact, an illusion.
@Lisa M., yes my brother-in-law and his wife assumed we had little money because we were much more careful with ours than they were. In reality I'm sure we landed in retirement with a much better cushion than they have, and this is after years of us traveling the world.
@Anne, Ah, the rewards of a frugal life - known personally but often not publicly. Kudos to you for the ability to combine travel with a frugal lifestyle!
@Lisa M., A point made frequently in the book The Millionaire Next Door.
@Lindsey, I'll have to read that book, as it sounds like the author & I are kindred souls.
As I've said before, I live in the Hamptons. I regularly drive down the street where properties go for north of $80 million. My neighbors are hedge funders. My old work colleagues are tech industry millionaires. I've always been the "poor" friend.
It's hard not to get envious sometimes, especially since, like Kristen, my midlife financials are not what I'd planned on because of divorce and other life issues. For example, I just paid $480 to the psychiatrist my two children each see twice a year. That was for 20 minutes of talking to my son. I could find a cheaper shrink, but this guy is smart as anything and my kids have been seeing him for probably 15 years, so he knows us and our situation. And no, since my son aged out of my insurance, I won't see a penny of that back. Would it be nice if my son could pay for that himself? Or if his father helped? Sure, but it's not happening. And since my ex and I split up, tens of thousands of mine have been spent on my children's wellbeing. Meanwhile my ex goes on vacations--I don't, I can't afford it.
That said, one of my best friends, who's worth north of $20 million, has been complaining to me because he really wants a house in Palm Beach and can't afford it. He owns three condos in New York City, a lavish spread on Long Island, but he can't afford Palm Beach.
Kristen is right: it's all about contentment. There are always people who have more, sometimes much more, but they may not be content at all. Many of my friends think I'm rich. I certainly don't feel that way but it would be nice not to have $480 sting coming out of my checking account. Other friends of mine routinely spend that much on a single restaurant meal.
I'm working on contentment. I think being a naturally happy person has a lot to do with that. I used to be one but I'm not any more.
So, yes, envy can sting, but I don't believe it's a barrier to friendship. Like-mindedness, similar interests, and sense of humor are far more important. Also, just being real with wealthier friends. Don't pretend you're in the same circumstances out of pride.
Sorry, this is not very well written and kind of rambling but I need to do paid work now! heh.
@Rose, ok this made me laugh in parts. The competition among the wealthy can be horribly distorted. My favorite is do you own your own jet or just a share in one.
@Bee, srsly. I will say the truly truly truly wealthy people I know, like the billionaires, are some of the kindest and most charming people I have ever met. Because despite what many think about extremely successful businesspeople, charm and good manners goes a long way in success.
@Rose,
The topic of this post reminded me of a story you shared earlier about how a rich, seemingly perfect friend of yours was suffering from hidden, inner struggles, including domestic problems, that do not appear behind her family's smiling faces. I have always remembered that story when I am prone to envy, so I wanted to thank you. As Bee said, wealth or a paycheck do not insulate you from life's problems.
Good luck!
@st, see above re the Porsche ad. I didn't want to be too open about it and expose her identity, but if it helps people.... Her husband is NG. She, despite being a wealthy ex-model (now I remember Luanne from King of the Hill saying, "Models are the happiest people in the world!" ha), is a smart, funny person or she wouldn't be my friend.
What an interesting topic! In all of my homeschooling years, I've had friends at different socioeconomic levels. I've had a few wealthy friends that were modest, welcomed us into their homes and just didn't act any differently toward me when I was the 'poor' friend. I also distinctly remember one friend who lived in a tiny apartment and was on and off welfare for several years. One day, I casually mentioned an organic buying club and wanted to know if she wanted to split a bag of organic flour. She snapped at me that not everyone could afford that. Although I didn't think I was being insensitive at the time, I try to always remember not to assume anything and to tread lightly around anything involving money.
If you have to sign a prenup the relationship is doomed. They enter as themselves and you enter on unequal ground limping about. At some point they look at you and think, why exactly did I marry someone lame.
You have made some wonderful points here, Kristen. I remember being a poor mom just getting by. It was extremely difficult. Not everyone was kind.
I believe friendships and love can cross socio-economic levels. These relationships can be challenging. However, both parties need to be able to recognize the heart of kindred spirit. Personally, I am not impressed by what kind of car a person drives, a big house or a Rolex. However, I admire a strong intellect and a good heart. You are so right attitude is everything in life and friendship.
I arrived at this point after my own painful journey. My two sisters married very wealthy men. Not upper middle, class. Wealthy as net worths of tens of millions of dollars. Since my two sisters had huge disposable incomes, they did many things together. I was often the odd one out. I couldn’t afford to go antiquing with them at the Paris Flea Market or fly to New York for the weekend to take in a show. I often wished that they would do things with me. They couldn’t relate to my life at all and weren’t very generous. Although I never felt true envy, I had my feelings hurt frequently.
Yet over the years, I have recognized several things. First and foremost, wealth does not insulate an individual from the pain of life. Death, illness, divorce, violence and addiction impact people from all walks of life. My sisters were no exception. My older sister died very young of a rare form of cancer. My younger sister went through a terrible divorce complete with forensic accountants and hidden bank accounts.
Although at times I felt like I didn’t belong, I have tried never to be angry or bitter. I was with my sister when she passed. I spent every afternoon with her in the months preceding her death. My other sister lives around the corner from me now. She is much different than I, but we have a relationship built on what we have in common. I know she feels badly about her behavior when we were younger.
Although my sister is still impressed by money, I am not. I have learned to find common ground with others regardless of who they are and where they are from. Most people are very interesting and you can learn much from them. I really believe that kindred spirits are everywhere.
I may not wealthy, but I have been blessed immeasurably. I have everything money can’t buy. My sisters weren’t that lucky.
@Bee,
Your last paragraph really resonates with me and my situation and I totally agree. This is how I try to live.
My one sister-in-law tells everyone she is a "fun poor person". She is lovely inside and out and i love that she freely says this.
There are several aspects of wealth. We often think of the difference between necessary spending and consumerism. But there is also the aspect of having easy access to matters that "lift the spirit" such as education and arts for instance.
My husband and I are in a financially stable situation and are both from a blue collar background. I had the privilege of going to university on a government grant, and I look back with happiness on how that opened up a world for me. However I always felt and often still feel awkward when I am around people who are from a white collar background, for whom piano lessons, holidays to other continents and college education are a given and have been for several generations. But then I also felt the odd one out in the village where I grew up, because I loved literature and classical music and knew no one else who did. I really hope that I will always have the financial bandwith of occasionally going to a great exhibition or concert. It is hard to describe the impact of standing immediately in front of a great work of art that you had only ever seen pictures of, and absorbing it's effect on your mood and brain.
Well said! We have also been at the point of having to watch every single penny and now have a bit more wiggle room. I know that there are people who have less resources than we do and lots more who have more resources than we do. That's the way it will always be, although it doesn't seem to matter so much with people who are family and friends. (I would probably feel a little like a fish out of water if I was around a bunch of people who were obviously wealthy and flaunted their wealth, mainly because their values might be different than mine.) With that said, some of the wealthiest people I know are penny-pinchers and very frugal. So I would agree with Kristen that it's more about the attitude than the amount of money someone has.
I probably have a different perspective on this topic. Firstly, in the area I lived in, you cannot tell if people have money or not on the way they dress. There are multi millionaires I know who does not care what they wear (t-shirts/shorts with holes). Secondly, I am confident enough to hold my own in social situations. If someone ignores me then I find someone else to talk to. Thirdly, it is better to stay humble (in deed and material things) even if you are wealthy. There are a lot of flashy people out there but up to their neck in debt.
I think it depends on how the people involved view money. I see it as a tool to pay for what I need and to help others, not something you brag about, or hold over those who have less than you. I have family and friends that have more and some who have less than I do. The ones who have stayed friends over my lifetime, and the family I spend the most time with, are ones who see it the same way I do. I have seen some family members torn apart due to greed and bragging, and I vowed never to be that way with mine.
Very interesting discussion here and it calls to mind a recent situation in our lives. We had been having casual restaurant dinners with another couple once or twice a month for about 5-6 years. They were nice enough and there was never a word of disagreement. Then we were dumped, and through a third party no less. We weren't real close, but still, it stung. I thought a lot about it and came to this conclusion finally. All though we were all retired and living much the same financially now, the husband had a masters degree and had, at one time, made a very high salary. We're doing well in retirement but had blue collar salaries during our working years. We never hide this.
I think he felt "above" us because of his education and former salary. I could be wrong, but that's all I could come up with. His loss because we are delightful, generous people. 😀 😀 😀
@Anne, this is a puzzling case. I assume that the other couple knew about the income/education disparity during your working years, so why dump you *after* retirement, when the playing field became more level? Is it possible that the leveling of the playing field made the husband feel embarrassed?
In any case, I'm sorry that this happened to you.
@A. Marie, no, we met after we were all retired. It's even more complicated because we agreed that of the third couple in the group, the husband was pretty irritating. So why we were dumped is a mystery to us, too. But that's how life is. Some hurtful things happen.......and then you move on.
I have actually thought about this quite a bit and while I am by no means wealthy I do not have a ton of expenses. I try to be really mindful of this and generous so if I am asking someone to hangout and go to dinner some of the time I might pay because it's no big deal to me and what matters is the relationship. I think being cognitive of that is important as I would not do well if my friends wanted to go out for lots of expensive things all the time.
It really depends a lot of how vast the disparity is. We are solidly middle class according to the income charts. We have friends who make more money and friends who make less, but we don’t have any friends who own private jets. We do have friends on food stamps. My husband does work with extremely wealthy people sometimes and he ends up feeling awkwardly poor.
It’s also easier across different economic levels than across different socio levels. It sounds like you and the organic moms were on the same socio-level. You were not as wealthy, but you weren’t coming from a background of generational poverty. She had more money, but not so much that she wasn’t referring to buying nuts as an important financial sacrifice to make.
It’s also easier if there is some shared values or goals. Church is great for making genuine and lasting cross cultural friendships, bc the shared values transcend the differences.
I had made some friendships across socio and economic levels at my kids public school (pre-Covid.) I did often feel awkwardly rich, like when another mom realized that my kid wasn’t on free lunch. I didn’t volunteer this information, it’s a long story. Anyhow, she kept quizzing me about why we didn’t just fill out the free lunch form. I think at the time over 95% of the kids at the school were on free lunch.
I don’t think she was trying to be intrusive, it just did not make sense to her, just like it doesn’t make sense to my husband’s clients why we don’t pay $40K/year for private school.
As always, thanks to Kristen and the commenters for a fascinating discussion.
My family of origin's situation was lower middle class, or would have been if my maternal grandmother (who married rich the third time around) hadn't kept throwing a monkey wrench into the works by a series of cash gifts with strings attached. DH's family was even lower middle class to start with, but ended up well above my family in income. So both of us grew up with considerable ambivalence about money/status/etc. And we were both always amused by the fact that my family regarded us as a success story (my grandmother was out of the picture by then), whereas we were lowest on the totem pole in DH's family.
In my present life, the most inc0me-unequal situation is between us and the Bestest Neighbors (a retired physician and a retired lawyer/university administrator; Ms. BN also has family-of-origin money). But we have become dear enough friends over the past 35 years that this has simply stopped mattering: We do whatever we can, whenever we can, for each other. So I think that in the best relationships, different levels do cease to matter.
@A. Marie, Your last paragraph made my heart smile (if such a thing is possible!) Beautiful.
@A. Marie,
The three of you sound like a wonderful and loving team. And I always do so enjoy how they have been dubbed with the delightful honorific “Bestest Neighbors.” I can’t help smiling every time I read that.
OK here is a different take on the situation. My siblings and I were obviously raised with the same amount of money. All 4 of us received a college education. We all married pretty much the same economic equals. We are all frugal and have approximately the same amount of money.
You would think we get along but alas that is not the case. Our personalities are all so different. I have never felt any one of my siblings has had my back. We are cordial but almost like acquaintances.
@karen, Personality differences can be profound as can spouses. I've always been considered the generous one in our family. (Four kids, one died, three surviving.) I paid for my parents to go on trips to Europe once I realized they would never get it together to go on their own. I bought them a new roof for their house and a Subaru Outback to haul my kids around in. (My mom watched them when they were little to about age 9 or 10, and yes I paid her every week.) My brother, older, is the typical overextended upper middle class type, with the McMansion, expensive leased cars and so on. My sister was single for a long time (I also paid for her to go on trips to Europe with us) and then married a divorced cheapskate.
My father is gone and I'm the one who paid for my mother's elder lawyer. I continue to buy her what she wants and order her food delivery every week. My brother pops up now and then and says hi. He drives a very nice BMW SUV and I drive a Camry I bought used. My sister sees my mom now and then but doesn't help financially in any way. She drives the Outback I bought my mother. I don't bear my sibs any ill will but I wish they'd step up for our mother.
@Rose, You are a better person than I, Rose. I would bear them A LOT of ill will.
I married my husband when I was pretty young, and he was a few years older and already well-established. We had a house and two cars when my friends were "starving" students. Sometimes it felt embarrassing to me at the time and some of my student friends asked nosy questions about cost of our house etc. We hosted most of the events/dinners in our social circle then and did so willingly Now, all these students are middle-aged and middle class, and things are much more even. I felt awkward being the "rich" person in the group.
I think that you're right - attitude absolutely matters! My kids attend a private school connected to my husband's work and we have a VERY generous financial aid package based on our income-level. Tuition is not free for us, but it's not far from free. There is a huge variety of family finance situations at the school. This year, one of my kids has a good friend whose parents are both doctors. But they are kind, down-to-earth, and do not treat us as less-than. In return, I need to remind myself that they are just regular people who love Jesus and are using the gifts God gave them to help people in a way that happens to pay a lot. If I treat them differently just because they're significantly wealthier than me, that's a heart problem on my end. I have another kind-hearted friend who has a child that travels internationally for sports and will probably make the Olympic team someday and it's all paid for by her parents. So what? If I get envious of the places they travel (something I've had to fight a time or two), that's my own heart issue.
There's certainly something to be said for having friends in the same stage and in a similar financial situation - relating to certain struggles is just easier. But it doesn't mean that my friendship with others can't happen. I can celebrate with my dear friend who is working towards paying an extra $40K on her house this year to pay it off, even though the thought is mind-boggling to me. Being a good friend is celebrating with her without distancing myself or thinking worse of either of us because of it.
I have so many thoughts about this....I agree, I think attitude makes a big difference. I am fortunate enough to have wealthy (or wealthier) friends who are very generous with what they have - thinking especially of my husband's semi-retired business partner, who invited us to spend a day with them at their summer home (in an exclusive community on an island) when we were on vacation in the area. The woman of the couple had inherited a trust fund of several million dollars after her parents passed away, making the purchase of this home possible. They shared the beach with us, played beach games with my husband and son, made us dinner (burgers and hot dogs on the grill with sides), and shared their balcony where we could watch the dolphins in the inlet. Most importantly, they are lovely and down to earth, and treated our preteen son like a long lost friend. It was a perfect day that we will all remember.
I also have a friend from high school who apparently has done well for himself - I'm sure he and his wife worked hard, and he also says they were "very lucky". Anyway, he loves to sail, and takes friends out with him on his sail boat during the summer (not me, sadly, because I live in another state). He and his wife also helped pay for cancer treatment for another high school friend years ago, and gave her the use of their NYC home and their NJ home during her treatment (apparently, this other friend required a very challenging course of treatment - I don't know the details). He's very humble, and is still the same nerdy funny guy I knew back in our school days.
I have a lot of experience with this as far as friendships go. I work with attorneys (but I am not one) and the attorney friends I have make a lot more money than me. I also have a friend whose husband has a salary of a million dollars a year. I think you are right about the attitudes of all parties playing a role in maintaining a successful relationship. I am not naturally an envious person, which isn't to say I don't feel a pang of jealously or envy now and then, but I am blessed in that I have never been one to compare my life to others too much. I guess I never really saw the point in that because I am pretty happy with my life. My friends are generous. They share their vacation homes, and have treated me to dinners and concert tickets, etc. But they also allow me to be generous in the ways I can be - helping with pet sitting, baking goodies, listening, allowing me to pick up the tab once in awhile, etc. When it comes to birthday or Christmas gifts, we exchange gifts at a level that makes neither party uncomfortable. If I had some kind of financial emergency, they would 100 percent help me out, and I would help them out too, to the best of my ability, if the tables were turned. I guess it works because we all accept and love each other at where we are at in life.
I think that the disparity works if the richer person suggests activities that the others can afford.
My brother invites me to go camping with him. He invites my parents to go to Hawaii with him.
While we weren't poor when dh and I started out were weren't really middle class. We were able to buy our house and I was able to stay home with the kids when they were born mostly due to my frugality and gifts from family members, church - money for hearing aids for 2 kids were expensive - and friends. I took any and all hand me downs for the kids. There were 2 times in my time raising kids that I was upset. One was when the family down the street got a mini van. I was so jealous! But I put it in perspective that we didn't have credit card debt and could pay our bills. Another time I was really hurt and upset was when a friend who was richer than me bought me a device to track my to do lists that was electronic. Can't recall what it was called back then. My hubby had one that work had given him and I suggested this friend get one. Well she got me one for Christmas. I was so annoyed cause I felt like she was pitying me that I couldn't afford one. I could have, but I didn't want one. While it didn't ruin our friendship I was very hurt. She was generous in inviting the kids and me over to sit in her central air during brutal summer days and go into the hot tub. I didn't turn that down.
Now that things are better financially with hubby and I, I donate to my favorite charities, buy food for the local food pantry and send unwanted items to Goodwill. I have a friend who is a widow who I buy laundry detergent for when it's on sale for 1.99 a bottle at Walgreens. I buy her daughter diapers for her baby. I get a kick out of doing this because of the couponing thrill plus I love sharing. Now this may all change when hubby retires in 2024.
@Auntiali, I don't understand why you were annoyed when your richer friend bought you something she thought you'd like for Christmas, and hurt, and yet you enjoy buying detergent and diapers for poorer friends now. Can't you give that friend some grace?
This topic is so helpful! I have been on both sides of the income disparity in friendships.
One comment that might be helpful for health insurance is to check your college’s insurance. When I was in grad school it was very comprehensive and affordable insource probably because I was in a pool of much younger (and thus healthier on the whole) people than at my job.
I am reminded that what seems like poverty to one person can seem like heaven to another. We inherited a foster child; she used to come to our house a lot to get help with homework and when her foster parents were transferred with the military, she asked and the state asked if we would become foster parents for her. It was how we got started in the system. Anyway, we had a very small house at the time and I used coupons and gardened for need not pleasure. When she moved into what was only slightly larger than a broom closet, she started crying and I thought it was because it was so sad looking a room. Instead, she said she was crying because she had a room all to herself and it was so wonderful! The other foster home was great but filled with kids and at our house she was the only child so no competition for anything. There is an old saying that I am about to mangle, but it goes something like "What you have, others pray for."
Such an interesting topic. Thank you all for sharing!
We have had interesting experiences. We lived in an area that has the highest concentrated poverty in the whole United States. We were living on one beginning teacher's salary, our kids qualified for free school lunch, free AP tests, etc. But my husband and I are college graduates. Grandparents paid for piano lessons and trips to UK (where one set of grandparents lived). So compared to many around us, we were rich. My kids knew we weren't rich, but they knew we surely were not poor. I am grateful that they saw this clearly.
One of the family memories is when the 3 kids were little and my husband was in college (he didn't go to college for the first time until he was in his 30's), and we were living on scholarships and a tiny bit of savings. I was exhausted all of the time. We would take the kids to Denny's on kids eat free night, and the whole family could eat for $6. It is a memory the kids bring up often with fondness. It was a sweet time together and seemed an utter luxury.
When it started to be talked about in the media that our kids generation was the first in a very long time that was predicted to be worse off than their parents, I teased my kids that we lived so frugally that they had every chance of still being better off than us!
I don’t completely agree with Kristin’s reply (and I mean this in the kindest way possible!) I think she got close, with the attitude issues. But I think both the question and replay are missing the fact that the issue is not the money. I think money, more specifically income disparity, is just a magnifying glass, it may make the attitudes, thoughts and beliefs of both parties more clear- but I don’t think it’s the issue in and of itself.
As an extremely low income turned extremely high income over the course of a decade (like we are talking a 30x increase in household income over a 12 year period) I have literally been on both sides of this. I have also had many of the same friends through this time and the friends I don’t still have I would have stopped being friends with regardless of what happened to my income or theirs (although the change in circumstances exacerbated that in both directions).
People who flaunt their wealth, judge other people by it, and show a lack of empathy towards those who earn less aren’t good friends whether you make the same income as them or not. People who make money but can only figure out how to be friends with people who also make similar incomes aren’t going to be good people regardless of your relative circumstances. But the disparity in circumstances may make those traits more obvious, sooner.
The flip side of course is that people who can’t handle being friends with people who make more than them (just because they make more) need to examine their own attitudes with regards to jealousy and privilege. If someone is struggling to be a good friend to someone who earns more (assuming the person is not a jerk or lacking empathy, see previous point) really needs to deal with their own heart attitude, and it’s only a matter of time before something else (not financial) causes those same attitude issues to appear. (And I’m not throwing stones! I’ve been there! It’s hard).
This isn’t to downplay the fact that friendships the cross socioeconomic levels can be complicated! But so are friendships that cross cultural, religious, and political divides!
In summary: Don’t be friends with un-empathetic jerks regardless of their income level. But make sure you own attitude is in check and be willing to deal with the complications that can come from befriending people that are different from you (whether that be race, culture, socioeconomic status, religion, politics, family structure, whatever) because it is worth it.
I actually do agree with what you wrote; that's kind of what I was trying to address when I said our own attitude matters when we're the ones with less money. I think contentment is the antidote to jealousy, and it's also the antidote to the, "Well, at least my values are in the right places." type of criticisms that tend to be launched by people with less money.
The more content and at-peace you are with your own circumstances, the less likely you are to be jealous and critical of someone who has more than you do.
So yeah; attitude on both ends is what matters!
Things I have notice, having money is more clear in the United States.
In other part of the world it would be more the education level. The lawyer with 8 figures can be great friend with the master in philosophy that’s now teaching high school. The guy that make millions in plumbing is still out of those circles.
Then the heritage/ generational wealth, you get it to pass on, it’s not your to spend , at least not morally. You have to offer back what you got.
The disparity in income can make you blind to certain things. A friend once gave me a ride, about 100 KM, and asked for gas money. I had never considered that gasoline could be a cost in someone life, stupid of me.
And when the struggle is very deep , it’s hard to stay friend, the lack of knowledge, the not really knowing or being told. We have a friend that became homeless after a psychose, he lived with us for over 5 years.
I do have friends with private jets and that the only thing I sometimes envy, not having to deal with airports.
Kristen have you looked at Medi-share for your health insurance?
My husband’s friend from high school has become very wealthy… like 75 million to 100 million net worth. My husband would like to vacation with them but we can’t afford their level of vacation and they wouldn’t want to go on ours. So wealth does sometimes put a distance on closeness when you can’t afford similar things or experiences. They live 2000 miles away but we enjoy catching up when they come home to visit. But their normal everyday is much different from ours and sometimes that just makes things weird.
For me, this is a triple sided question.
First, how do I feel about my finances, second, how do I feel about people with more money than us, and 3rd, how do I relate to the people who have more money than us.
I have to preface this by saying that we are financially comfortable because we are frugal and have no debts ( I can buy all kinds of nuts but I won't buy a fancy car) , and that I am not someone who tends to suffer from envy. I am pretty content with my choices and my life in general and I don't tend to envy others. I always say : ''Don't compare your inside (feelings) to other's outside (wealth, appearances, etc) because you don't know how they FEEL''.
So... I feel pretty confident in my frugalness, and I'm proud of where we are in life (hubby and I) in regards to finances and our decision to prioritize paying debts over buying stuff. So, for me, not being rich is not a problem. We are comfortable, because we think frugally.
Second, if someone has more money than me, good for them. Are they happier? Maybe, maybe not. Do they spend less time with their kids? Perhaps, who knows. I don't care, actually, that someone else has more or less money than me, because I don't know all the circumstances and I am not aware of how they really deeply feel about their life and their financial state. I also always keep in mind that making a better salary does not mean having more money (debts). And that having all the bling (big house, fancy car, etc) does not mean being financially secure (again, hello debts!).
Third, I have no problem saying NO to people demands if they don't fit my budget, and I don't feel less than by doing so. I have friends who make double our salary and sometimes propose to join in for fancy vacations or actitivies and I say : ''Thanks but this is not a priority for us right now'' and move on. Those same friends then come over for game nights and all is good! I do not associate with snob people. Having more money does not equater being an ass***.
Side line, those friends make more money but have debts. We make less but have zero debts. Not juging them : we just have different priorities.
For years they suggested we send the kids to a summer camp with their kids and we kept saying no. Then we paid the house and car in full and last summer we choose to send to kids to summer camp (2000$). It was not under pressure, it was a choice we made in regards to our priorities.
If friends make me feel like ''less than'' about having less money, they are not worth it. If ''I'' feel less than about making less money, this is a different issue.
The attitude of the better-off person matters:
First of all let me preface this by saying that all education should absolutely be free and student debt should be forgiven, regardless of the insensitive attitudes of some people. That being said, in my early 20's I chose to opt out of student debt by not pursuing higher education and was doing better financially than most of my peers when they were just graduating, not finding jobs in their field right away. I'm a young millennial so we already had plenty of warning this was going to happen.
Except it didn't, that phase of not finding good paying jobs in your field lasted only a few years but by the time we're nearing our 30's everyone who did go to school is now making 60-70K and I'm stuck in the same (21K) income bracket. Still with less debt but also with no cushion. I don't care that these 70K people want debt forgiveness (they should have it) or that they complain they were tricked into something they didn't fully understand at 18 (18 isn't old enough to make most life decisions) but complaining that the claim college would save you from poverty was farce well....it wasn't. It did. It may be more than you can afford to pay off but you make minimum payments and live a much better life than those of us without education and now have forgiveness options but there isn't really any hope for our situation to get better, if you go around with the attitude that student debt is the worst financial hardship of our generation you're tone deaf.
The attitude of the less well off person matters: I feel like doesn't need as much explanation but is overlooked.....it's really never okay to ask your friends for money. Family (close family) sure, in emergencies, friends, I mean if you decline invitations for lack of money and the /then/ offer to pay for you that's on them but having been on both sides of the friends asking for money for bills scenario.....I would rather be the one with my bank account going negative than the one feeling like my friendship is exploited and be treated like a resource. It ruins the friendship and friendships are still more important than money no matter how poor you are. Companionship is a base-level need equally with food and shelter, humans evolved to be social creatures, and yes I have been homeless and food insecure, the worst part, by far, was loneliness and social rejection. It was chronic with no relief, (yet soup kitchens are still a thing) there are ways to get donated food but companionship was what we really needed.
It's one of the few essential needs that money can't get you, despite the
When we moved to our new home two years ago, we had no idea most of our new neighbors were ExxonMobil employees. While the cost of living has increasingly put the pinch on us, the neighbors seem to be rolling in dough. New pools, expensive cars, remodeling, trips - you name it. I am not envious but resentful that the high fuel prices are apparently making them rich. My family does all our yard work, home maintenance, cleaning etc. One neighbor snottily asked why we were doing our own yard work as though it were embarrassing to have to live next door to such people and BTW my yard looks the best in the neighborhood. Nannies for moms that don't work, house cleaners, mobile car washers, dog groomers, and so on gets tiresome to watch. I just can't relate and will never be friends who are into excess consumerism.