Would I go back?
I was having an email conversation with a reader, and in it, she asked this (which I am sharing with her permission):
I was wondering if you could magically go back to your marriage and little children days before things got intolerable, would you? Either knowing what you know now, or something of it? Or do you wish you had left earlier?
In the context of our conversation, part of what she was asking is whether I think I could change things if I went back and knew what I know now; in other words, could I have done something differently to make it work?
So, my brief answer is: no.
Since I stayed so long and since I poured so much effort into trying everything I could think of to make my marriage better, I know without a shadow of a doubt that I would not have been able to make it successful no matter how many times I tried or how long I stayed.
I read countless books on marriage, listened to innumerable podcasts, read up on his personality type using every framework I came across (trying to understand!), and implemented eleventy thousand different ideas/experiments/suggestions. I faithfully went to personal therapy and I managed to get us into marriage counseling multiple times, with a different counselor/therapist every time.
You guys know I work hard at things that are important to me (reference my behavior in nursing school), so you can imagine that I also put forth 4.0 effort in my marriage.
I prayed, submitted, respected, supported, and served tirelessly.
If wifely effort could have made it healthy, then mine would have been healthy. Instead, it devolved into something progressively worse over time.
Which, I now understand, is how these kinds of marriages almost inevitably go.
So, absolutely, positively no; I would not go back. Instead, knowing what I know now, I would have left far, far, far sooner.
Life is too short to wear yourself out trying to fix something unfixable. It is like spending 25 years of your life chasing the wind; you will be tired, but you will have gotten nowhere.
But to carry the analogy forward: all of that chasing after the wind probably made me stronger in some ways, just as your heart and lungs would be strong from running after the wind. I regret running for so long, but since it's behind me, I might as well be thankful for the endurance I've gained from it.
And I'm trying to channel that endurance and energy into more fruitful endeavors now. Like nursing. 🙂
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I've explored some of these themes in a lot more detail over on my Patreon, so if this type of writing feels like something that would be helpful to you, feel free to join us over there.
In once-a-week posts on Patreon, I share my story, trusting that simply doing that is enough to help others.
But (and I am exactly the worst Patreon marketer in the world because I am always basically trying to talk people out of joining)...I never want anyone to feel pressure to join.
My Patreon just exists because the things I share there are too personal to put out on the world wide web; otherwise I'd just publish it all here. And the paywall of $9.97/month is simply in place so that someone has to be more than casually looking for some gossip in order to read. 🙂
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If you are trying to figure out if your marriage can be fixed (so that you don't waste decades chasing after the wind!), I offer up two book recommendations.
First, I suggest Lundy Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That?", which includes a whole bunch of ways you can tell if your spouse is actually changing or not, and whether it is reasonably possible for him to change. He has spent many years trying to help men improve their behavior in their relationships, so he brings a lot of expertise to the topic.
(Obviously, hurt in a marriage can come from a wife as well. That is not Lundy's specialty, but the book could probably still be useful if that's your story; just focus on the principles and not the male pronouns.)
Secondly, if yours is a Christian marriage, you might find Natalie Hoffman's book, "Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Christian Marriage" to be helpful. Natalie was a long-time homeschooling mom of many in a conservative Christian church (Bethlehem Baptist, which you might know because it was pastored by John Piper for many years) and they excommunicated her when she left her abusive marriage.
If you are in a Christian marriage that is confusing and you find yourself wondering what in the world is going on, you will probably find her book helpful.
I know sometimes people are nervous to read books like this because they think, "What if my marriage is really fine, and I'm just overreacting?" To that I say: Do not worry. If your marriage is healthy, you will read these books and be like, "Hmm, that's not at all what I experience. Whew."
Let's say you read a book about trichotillomania, which is the compulsion that causes a person to pull their hair out. If you don't have that condition (and your hair is actually falling out from some other cause), the book would not convince you that you do have trichotillomania.
In a similar way, if the shoe doesn't fit, these books will not force you to wear it. 😉 But if your marriage IS problematic, you will recognize it within these pages.
I can't lie; I am a little nervous to hit "publish" on this one, because it's more than I usually share here. I'm gonna do it anyway, though, with the hope that it will help someone out there.
P.S. If you want to respond to this post but don't want to do so publicly, you can always reach out to me by email: thefrugalgirl@gmail.com
Thank you very much for your courage and honesty in regards of your post! Well done Kristen - on all levels - like the writing itself, the honesty while being respectful to the people involved, no accusations because you strictly stuck to you person.
I think there is a reason that actually going back in time is not possible for humans. But reflecting about your life, experiences and possibilities is. And it is vital for moving on to a bright(er) future.
Thank you for sharing. I think this post will be helpful to many people. I am sorry for all you endured and glad you are on the other side.
I read A Well-Trained Wife, by Tia Levings, and it was an eye opener for me.
@K D, I followed Tia on social media for a while before I read her book. I could not have imagined all that she went through. I am so thankful to not be a part of that world; I don't know if I'd have the fortitude to run away from it all.
@K D, That book was a really tough read. I'm glad I read it though.
@K D, I read this also and the whole time I was thinking “this is what a harrowing experience is.” I was just in dread for most of the book, I cannot imagine having to live through it.
Kristen,
Thank you for the book recommendations. Books are my love language. Thank you for your honesty here. I’d love to see you create a pre-marital counseling book/low-budget e-course. You have so much wisdom on being the ideal wife yet not having the ideal marriage. Can your daughters be spared the same fate? Can mine?
I didn’t realize you were writing weekly over there. Thanks for the reminder.
I will again recommend Christian divorce attorney, Bree Sullivan-Howell’s books. Crush Your Divorce & Keep Your Faith & Crush Your Comeback about re-marriage, pre-nups, etc.
My best friend attended Divorce Care classes at church prior to any divorce discussion. Really helped.
I personally love Sarah Jackson’s coaching in Kajabi so it can be done as I have time and the emotional bandwidth to deal with marital stress from my parents failed marriage and my own that has had seasons of stress. Cheaper and easier than interviewing in person counselors.
Not on the subject of marriage, but I like to think about if the person I am now- with confidence & courage obtained through all these years - could go back to high school. . . That would be great! That body with this brain. That would be a fun do-over! Makes me smile every time
I appreciate your thoughts on this subject. I am non-Christian, but have a sister who is very submissive to her husband based on what I find to be a perplexing reading of Paul. I had a good marriage with my husband for nearly 30 yrs before he died. But, I am so happy single now. I almost feel guilty saying that. I read a quote by Paulo Coelho: “You can miss something, but not want it back.” That’s how I feel about marriage now
Kristen,
Thank you for broaching this topic. I, too, have a crap marriage and have done a lot of research over the last couple of years. If one is asking the question, "Is it me?" the answer is no nine times out of ten. Lundy Bancroft's book was an eye-opener.
I am not a Christian, was raised Catholic, and come to these questions from a secular POV. One Christian resource I have encountered recently is the Bare Marriage movement. http://www.baremarriage.com I hope this can help some of your readers.
@Kristin,
I’m not understand why you don’t consider yourself to be a Christian if you follow the Catholic faith?
@Kayleigh, I’m not Kristin, but being raised in a faith and currently practicing/believing that faith are not the same. My husband and I raised our children in a progressive Baptist church (NOT SBC or IFB). None currently are active. I couldn’t tell you what exactly they believe because they are adults and we don’t pry. But I certainly have met many other people with similar backgrounds who would not any longer describe themselves as Christian.
@Kayleigh,
Good question! I do consider myself a Christian, but not an evangelical.
Your vulnerability and honesty again I applaud... I have no doubt that you have been a light to so many who read your pages and find themselves questioning.. not just marriage but their worth, their choices, their value, their ability to do the hard things. My hope is that your girls see what you have overcome and your strength and your hard work to change the trajectory of your life.. that they know they have you in their corner for guidance and support and that they realize that you have made choices that have allowed their lives to go ANY direction they choose. I also pray that whatever the situation is with your oldest that you have peace and any necessary answers you seek!
Thank you for publishing this post. I admire your ability to see positive aspects of situations. I need to work on that for a different aspect in my life - grief of loss of my brother. It's been two years and I'm still gutted by it, wishing I could share the everyday things - recipes, book recaps or movie reviews, get his thoughts about things. Daily I think of him and am grateful for our connection...but it remains sad vs joyful I had that. But as you point out to be able to go back would just put you right back... No ability to cure. So the suffering would remain. I have a feeling you'd point out that I had more love in that relationship than many do.... And be thankful. So will try to walk forward with that awhile.
@Anon, If it makes you feel any better, I'm in a similar situation! I lost my fiancé a few years ago and I'm still gutted. Like you, I think about him every day and we had such a special connection. My family keeps pushing me to move on and find someone new but... I don't want to. I can't imagine moving forward without him. I miss him so much.
Your brother sounds amazing and I'm so sorry you lost him. I also admire Kristen's positive outlook on situations. 🙂
@Veronica, That is a whole separate level of loss - of shared hopes and dreams, plans and day-to-day life that you're now missing. I am so sorry for your loss. It's hard when the whole world seems to be moving along and you're holding onto the love that's now in a different form -- grief. Sometimes just getting through another day is a success. I hope you are able to share about him often to keep memories close.
I always wonder about the person who dreams about going back to "fix" things with their present self. To me it is healthier to think of your past self and your present self as being basically the same people, with mostly the same personality and ways of doing things. And going back in time would not necessarily change any particular outcome, since you can't change other people's personality and ways. And why would you want to? Its our struggles and experience and learning that enrich us, allowing us to move forward.
We only have the present, its the place where we can actually make a life.
@Gina from The Cannary Family, well said. I'd word my own take only slightly differently: We are the sum totals of our own personalities, previous life experiences, and previous decisions. If we could go back in time and tinker with things, we wouldn't be our present selves; we would be different people altogether. As Gina says, the present is all we have to work with.
@Gina from The Cannary Family, There is a lot of wisdom in what you say. And, it doesn’t need to apply to a husband. There are other relationships that one might want to redo but it’s best to move on.
@A. Marie, I totally agree with what you & Gina are saying. I do think it’s a fun, imaginative thought doodle, though.
@Diane, I do have my moments of wishing I could go back to my high school years with my present self. I'd be kicking some butts and taking some names. (One reason among many that I wouldn't attend a high school reunion if you paid me!)
@A. Marie, Yes!! That’s it!! And I haven’t ever attended a reunion either.
I kept trying and trying, thinking if I just tried a little harder I could make things work...for 47 years. Then on a Saturday night I started reading a book entitled 'If He's So Great, Why Do I Feel So Bad?' by Avery Neal. By page 3 I was sobbing and on Tuesday met with a lawyer. And now, in my mid-70s, I am finally living the life I always wanted.
You're right - the lingering regret is not going much, much sooner.
Good for you!! I am so glad you were able to build a new life for yourself even after 47 years.
@Queen of Fifty Cents, good for you. i hope you have many more years to enjoy you life.
@Anita Isaac, your life. sorry for the typo.
@Queen of Fifty Cents, My God, you are brave! Not many people I know would have the courage to do what you did.
I’m so curious, and no answer is needed, why marry that person in the first place? It seems that knowing someone would reveal their character, but perhaps youth, etc gets in the way. Maybe long dating is not a thing? Anyway, I’m so glad you are where you are now, and continue to share your life with us. Thank you :).
Oh, so many reasons. I could give a really detailed answer on Patreon, but I don’t know if you are over there.
So briefly here:
-not knowing red flags to look for
-purity culture and the surrounding rules about dating and relationships (for just one example, a short courtship period and not much time alone together, so as to avoid sexual contact before marriage. This makes it a little hard to truly know someone. Or for another an emphasis on not breaking up while dating bc it’s “practice for divorce”
-youth and inexperience (this was my first relationship, as purity culture discourages dating until you are old enough to get married)
I know so much more now, and I hope that means I am equipped to make a more appropriate and healthy choice in the future.
@Ingrid RDN,
Because at 20, one has not the first idea of how things will go. If religion has a role, there's the whole purity / no sex before marriage thing too.
I also think that modern 20 year olds are better equipped than 20 year olds of previous generations when it comes to knowing what red flags to look for.
When I think back to that time in my life, I know I had ZERO idea that there was any type of abuse other than direct physical violence because it just wasn't talked about. But young people today do understand a lot more about things like sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and spiritual abuse, and the way that these types of abuses almost always end up hurting someone's physical body anyway.
@Kristen,
it's one reason I think that marriage should be reserved for AFTER each person has had the opportunity to have a bit of a career, to work, maybe travel a bit, study in whatever form so that they are a whole, fully formed human before committing to another person legally and spiritually. It's not about the exact age of the people concerned, but about the freedom to not be trapped if it does not work out, if that makes sense?
@Kristen, I was in my 30s when purity culture started to gain traction, and as a single Christian adult, I thought it sounded pretty stupid. How are you supposed to learn who the other person is if you don't spend time alone together??? I didn't realize that it included the idea of breaking up while dating being "practice for divorce", which has me shaking my head in disbelief. I shudder to think of what my life would have become, had I married some of the men that I dated. I'm sure that whoever came up with the purity culture idea had good intentions, but this illustrates why we need to teach our kids critical thinking skills and to not jump on the bandwagon of whatever trend is popular at the time.
@Ingrid RDN, people do not always see every aspect of a partner until after being married for awhile. Living with someone day in, day out & real life situations (that happen over time) shows you something different you might have not seen before. Even some of those real life situations might have different things happen from previous outcomes due to many variables.
@Kris, I'm sorry, WHAT? That is INSANE. Practice for divorce?!
I completely respect people not wanting to date around on a personal level, but to discourage it because breaking up encourages divorce?! Dating helps you see what it is you want out of a relationship and, if things don't work out, it's better to know that BEFORE you get married.
Timely: https://www.facebook.com/baremarriageofficial/posts/apparently-focus-on-the-family-thinks-breaking-up-in-a-dating-relationship-gives/122158134746483753/
Basically, Focus on the Family, a mainstream evangelical organization, just put out a podcast saying this same thing.
@Ingrid RDN, when a person is in "Love" rose colored glasses are involved.
@Kris, My mom opined, when I broke up with my first boyfriend at the ripe age of 14 (I felt too young to be dating!), that I would "never get married" because I "couldn't hang on to a man." I kept saying, "But I dumped HIM!" Heavens to Betsy.
Hahaha! What a funny thing to say to a 14 year old.
@Kristen, "Practice for divorce" is a totally new one to me. If I had married any one of the men I dated in my 20s, I'd be divorced by now. We know that brain development continues well into the late 20s, so undertaking something as major as marriage is risky. I am glad I did not run across my husband until I was 30 because before that I would not have had the smarts to recognize a good man when I saw one. In fact, when we married I told him I thought it would last about two years, based on previous relationships, and I refused to wear a wedding ring until our second anniversary.
I bet this is a case where you are delighted to have been proven wrong! 😉
Also the funny (unfunny?) thing is that a lot of us purity culture people ended up getting divorced anyway.
@Ingrid RDN, Sometimes you don't know what you don't know! And destructive people aren't always so obvious in the moment. People who live double lives can be very, very convincing. And it's the the choices made over time that reveal inability/no desire to change. A "garden variety" character flaw and a "destructive person" can look very similar. The "garden variety" marital struggles in my friend's marriages seemed similar to those in my destructive marriage. But the root issues and subtle differences and ultimate outcomes were huge.
@Kristen, Do your parents feel any sort of way about the purity culture things they taught you/allowed to be taught and how it affected you?
I don't want to speak too much for them, but I do know that they would not do things exactly the same way if they could time travel backwards.
But I will also say: it is hard to overstate how prevalent purity culture was at the time I was a teen. It, and variations of it, were the water evangelicals were swimming in, and so I don't want to point the finger to hard at any individual parents. It was a large cultural phenomenon.
@Kristen, there were some evangelical teens at my school who tried converting me, but they were in the minority. I remember watching a documentary called The Silver Ring Thing which really creeped me out.
@Sophie in Denmark, Some more thoughts...I also thought it was very bizarre that these groups claimed that sex was special and wanted to prevent teen pregnancy, yet were also against sex ed?! And telling gay people to deny their sexuality. Both those things were a nope from me when I was younger. I also picked up on how virginity only seemed to apply to women.
@Ingrid RDN,
Narcissistic abusers don't let you know who they are until it is too late. Even now, years after my divorce, people don't believe me about the abuse I endured because it wasn't physical, and because he never behaved that way in front of witnesses. Everyone still thinks he's a terrific guy.
So often, so, so, so often, it's as the couple gets a bit older, as the wife (often, not always, obviously) gets a bit wiser, a bit more experience of the world as it really is, more perspectives around what is and isn't okay, that these types of marriages end. They go on longer if religion has a big part to play, but even if it doesn't, once that door cracks open, it can never be fully shut again.
This is because very often, the partner who is possibly the one who is, let us say, controlling, gaslighting and so forth, in whatever way, LIKES their life. They love having a subservient, off balance partner. Note, I am not at all referring to violence here, not at all, just that whole ''if you were a GOOD MOM / better lover / less sinful person/ whatever'' schtick is what keeps one partner desperately trying to dance nicely enough to make them less angry and suspicious.
It's never enough. Often, what prevents people actually leaving, again, often women, is money. Simple, cold, money. They've often got children, they are trapped, more or less UNTIL something happens to allow them to break free. Each situation is different, but a very darling friend once mused to me that despite her very small salary for the little job he so generously allowed her to get, she somehow had a little extra money at the end of many months because she controlled where all of it went, and drugs and good times are not cheap, amirite?
Kristen, your intentions to go and study nursing would have been a threat. Suddenly, you'd have had real options, real kudos, a whole host of possibilities and that would not do, not at all!
Thank you for your bravery in posting helpful resources.
My parents celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary. The following week, my 30-year-married sister called and asked me to help her find a divorce attorney. Her words: "30 MORE years? I don't think so."
That is where you end up when you realize it's not going to change! If there was reasonable hope for change, maybe you'd stick around. But when the odds are right around 1% (that's what Lundy Bancroft says), well, you don't feel like signing up for another 30 years!
@Kristen, It's an all volunteer army then. No conscription.
Great topic. I was just reading yesterday in the Wall Street Journal about Gen Z's extreme avoidance to all conflict. The article was about "non contact agreements" originally designed for college campus to help victims of sexual assault. Now students are instituting them if a ex roommate stole their bagels. Literally. As a former high school teacher I can see we have crippled teens by letting them irresponsibly use the term "anxiety" or "I do not feel safe" when confronted with everyday uncomfortable situations like when I (as a teacher )told the student to take the Red Bull off their desk or put the phone away.
I think of the archetypal fairytales I heard as a child. The Queen is evil. The prince is good. In truth I am all the characters in the tale: the crone, the hero and the innocent. Instead of wishing there was no evil king or queen I think of the following scenario from Women who Run With Wolves by Pinkola-Estes. If there had never been a villian, the princess would never have been forced to go into the forrest and find her way to a happily ever after. I am grateful for the conflicts that forced me to leave what was barely tolerable to find a life I could never have dreamed for myself.
I wonder if people who use a no-contact agreement over stolen bagels have ever had siblings! 😉
@Kristen, If they did, they were the tormented youngest.
@Mary Ann, I read that WSJ article too!
My parents were married 59 years when they died; they were always dedicated Christians, and were devoted to each other, but my parents said that getting married at 19 and 21, as they did in 1939, was actually too young to be getting married, and encouraged us to go to college/get a job/grow up some more/get to know the other person really well, before getting married. Of course, I didn't listen, married at 20, and was divorced at 21. Had to learn the hard way.
Would I go back and change things? No! The ex got me to move to Florida, where he deserted me and I met my second husband, with whom I had my two children and now grandchildren. My second marriage had a lot of ups and downs, but I'm glad I hung in there, even at the end, when it really got hard and he could be unpleasant due to his complete and utter misery. The times that he would smile, use his trademark dry humor, hold my hand and tell me he loved me are what I remember most now; one year ago exactly, I was sitting at his bedside at the hospice house with him as his last days began.
I don't blame anyone for leaving a bad, especially an abusive, marriage. I've seen some horrible marriages make miraculous and lasting turnarounds, but it's been very few, sadly.
@JD, I hear you on this first anniversary of the beginning of your DH's end. And having just passed the second anniversary of my DH's death, I'm finding that the dreadful memories from his last five years are mercifully fading, and it's easier to remember the many good ones from earlier. I wish the same for you, and I'm glad that this seems to be happening.
I wonder at what point a person quits ruminating over something. I know I quit having to talk about failed marriage. Ugh. I don’t remember, I think the look on peoples faces helped me stop. That some people write books, put themselves up to teach others and basically make a life’s work out of failed marriage seems like picking at a scab. Oh well. I never see anything kids of failed marriage write. They are pretty much hostages with no control. They don’t get to divorce anybody. Their whole formative life has been out of their control but all the focus is on the two perpetrators not the voiceless victims. Sometimes they get counseling but mostly they are just stuck dealing on their own or telling their buddies or whatever. I’m an adult. For whatever reasons I got married and for whatever reasons I got divorced and I left. I never have to engage with that person again. My kids are stuck with both of us for life. Ugh. There is the real story bless their hearts.
If you saw my email inbox and the stories and questions it holds, I think you might understand why I do this. But obviously, no one is under any obligation to read what I write about marriage and divorce. 🙂 And of course everyone is free to process their divorce in the way that is most helpful to them; we all get to chart our own path through this, and what works for one person might not work for another. I was married for over 25 years; I have been divorced for a year and a half. I still have things to say.
I do care greatly about how this has affected my children, and I have done my best to support and help them. However, their stories are theirs to tell, not mine, and out of respect, I try to say very little on that topic.
I will also add: in the conservative Christian world, there is far too much silence (and silencing) on the topic of divorce and hurtful marriages, and that's part of why I talk about it. I understand that may not be true in your circles, but it is true in mine.
@Tiana, I get it this is a fan girl page and people want your advice and you are happy to give it on your blog that supports you financially. And I did not mean YOU should write about your children, I think blogs that use their children should be illegal or at least have laws protecting the children’s privacy. I meant children in general are the real victims of marriage and divorce and yet they are the silent majority. They mostly suffer in silence.
@Kristen, you are a very good Mama!
@Kristen, this is a mini master class in providing a gracious response!
@Tiana, if you still want to share about your failed marriage and it makes you feel better to do so, then don't let people's faces stop you. It has been 4 years since my Hubby died and I still have LOTS to say and if someone doesn't want to read it, that's OK with me, but their facial expressions don't get to decide that. And I agree with you that kids of divorced parents can be in a bad position. But not always. And K's kids are adults, after all. So if her life's work is showing us how to weather these storms gracefully and with courage, sounds like healing is happening.
I was actually thinking about the corollaries to grief over the death of a spouse this morning; that grieving such a loss takes time, and everyone's grief takes different amounts of time.
For me, it's been a year and a half since my divorce was finalized; compared to the length of a marriage, that's not much time.
Also this made me think again how important it is to be a safe person for those who are grieving, to not make them feel like their grief is too much or is taking too long. Paradoxically, this kind of reaction can actually make grieving take longer!
@Tiana, if it makes you feel better, I was 12 when my parents divorced and I was very supportive of my mom doing so even if her church was not. I think the example of her marriage and divorce made me more careful in choosing my own partner and helped me realize that you cant change someone else.
I'm always so happy when you express your certainty that you did the right thing by leaving. What a blessing that is! Not living with doubts, just finding a beautiful new path forward. Sending you love.
As someone who has been divorced before, I would change nothing. While the experience was painful on all sides, and I don't want anyone to suffer unnecessarily, that first failed marriage helped me understand so much about team work, compromise, and how to find a partner that was much better suited to my life and future, goals, etc. Not only did my initial failure shape who I later chose to be my husband & father of my children, I also think I learned a ton about conflict resolution (or, better put, how not to do it), and communication, shared values, etc.
I'm always thankful when you post these types of posts. Thank you!
Thank you for a very thoughtful response and for sharing your information in an area that could be filled with potential minefields.
I feel this post with every fiber of my being. If I could go back, it would indeed only so I could leave sooner, or perhaps not have married him at all (except that would mean I wouldn't have my kids, and I wouldn't trade them for anything.
Bless you, Kristen, for being brave enough to speak about this. I remember going to the pastor of my church when I had exhausted every avenue available. He listened intently, and even shared that he had seen some of the things I mentioned. Then when I was ready to leave, he said he'd "pray for reconciliation" in our marriage. I never went back to that church again.
I’m grateful for posts like these. Sometimes my marriage is hard, so hard. I have questioned and the research I’ve done encourages me that my marriage is not wasted or a lost cause. My husband and I are both changing and we are growing. We are both getting healthier.
Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable with us. I am better for it. I am so sorry for the pain and heartbreak you had to endure.
I think the another question is about the children since one can’t know if she’ll get full custody to protect the children or if the person will have unsupervised access to the children during their custody time. That’s why many women stay. (And some men, of course.)
I’m glad your kids had you all the time, and I’m very sorry it was so difficult.
My oldest has marriage on her mind, so I’ll see if she wants to read any of these books to look for dating warning signs.
Thank you for having the courage to share this on your blog.
I was in a spiritually abusive marriage for 12 years. I did all the right things. But I couldn't fix his issues, which were Mommy issues (nope), tussles with God (nope), childhood sexual trauma (nope), latent gay issues (nope) and alcoholism to cover all that up (again, nothing I could fix). It came out as a lot of gaslighting and how I had "led him to sin" -- but what? How is any of that my fault? No amount of praying could fix any of it. Therapy might, but he wouldn't. So--I left. And I found out how much he'd held over my head spiritually ("you're going to hell because you (did/didn't)---". I have a much different view of religion and of truth now. I'd rather someone cheated on me and was truthful than pretend to be straight or blame me for (doing everything he asked of me).
I think you did the right thing, and I hate that women are pressed into trad wife situations to be "good" or "perfect" and the damaged dude gets a free ride. I call bullsheet.
@Julia Tracey, That sounds really hard. I hope your life is infinitely better now
Thank you for this, Kristen!
It reminds me a little of when people ask me if I would ever go back to high school (obviously this is a vastly different context). My answer is no, firstly because I did not enjoy high school, and secondly because I would only want to do so if I had the knowledge I have now. Either way, it's a moot point, as it's impossible, and even if I could go back with my knowledge, I still doubt I would enjoy reliving it!
In terms of divorce, my parents have a very happy marriage, but I read a lot of Judy Blume books as a teen which discussed divorce both from parents' and children's perspectives, and they were very powerful. Blume is such a great writer! The message I got was that it's going to be hard, but it's healthier than staying in an unhappy relationship. I take the same advice for life situations - if I am feeling discontented for a lengthy period of time, it's probably wise to make a change. And, in the words of Cheryl Strayed, wanting to leave is enough.
i am so sorry. but so happy you made it through to the other side. somehow i knew your answer would be no and that is the right answer for you. you have a whole ton of people cheering you on from a community you created out of nothing. that is a huge accomplishment that no one can ever take away from you. your patients will adore you and be very lucky to be in your care.
Thank you for your openness, Kristin. It is illuminating for all of us. I watched both my sisters get divorces in their early twenties, awful debacles leaving painful scars. The spectacle made me very slow to marry, which has turned out to be a good thing, and I am tempted to imagine how I could have been a better sister if I had understood then what I understand now. It is a fruitless exercise. My faith families have helped me, however, as I am a Christian believer but not an evangelical; Christianity is a very large family. I am grateful for all the ways my faith family has helped me love better, not in a subservient way, but to build strength and joy for everyone, including women. People who are emphatically not Christian have sometimes been hurt by something in church life, or a person, or felt themselves judged unfairly. Some of the new clergy are trying to teach better, to help people sort out the historic words of the early fathers from the truly spiritual ones. There are important differences. If I could sum up my own years of Bible study it would be to advocate that a life close to God is one that helps and loves others as equals, plays fair, and stands up for itself and for the helpless. It is not a life of subservience.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you, Kristen! Your openness helps not only those in similar situations. This is difficult to express in a foreign language (I’m Swedish), but I feel like it also helps the rest if us. Because sometimes true kindness and consideration to others comes easier when you’ve gotten a glimpse of what other’s have gone through. So, thank you!
@Anna, I think you expressed yourself beautifully and I agree with what you said.
That’s always my hope: that my story will help others!
And I think you said it beautifully.
I may be chasing the wind.
@J from Ottawa, sending you strength across the miles!
Thank you
Can’t imagine what you went thru
Thankfully I am in a great relationship
We will be together 58 years come August
I love him and am in love with him
I know not everyone is as blessed as I am
Also although a wife is to submit and respond to her husband it doesn’t mean that he can abuse her. Congratulations on recognizing when it was time to leave
Thank you for this post. I can relate to the chasing for the wind, which I did for far too long until I gave up. It was not easy, I spent some pretty prime years (aged 32 to 40) trying and trying and getting nowhere. It was not easy to leave, it was worse to stay, but I sure like where I am today. I wish I had left sooner, but I have stopped beating myself up about that. I remind myself how good things are now and that the tangled and gnarly path of my thirties lead me to my current life that I love.
I enjoy all your writing on all the topics you cover and look forward to you in my inbox five days a week.
We are opposite people. You stayed far, far longer in your marriage (and I was gainfully employed supporting myself and continued to work when I got married). No way did I feel sad when my "chapter of having babies was over". Then again, I literally cut the cord (tubes) when I was done. Two was enough. Better half wanted to keep his options open, fine by me. I was the one that was done.
I am also divorced, with an 8y/o son, and if I knew then what I know now I also would have left much earlier. With us the issues started during my pregnancy, then briefly improved for a very short time and then i was basically a married single mom.
We were on the verge of divorce when covid hit and with the lockdowns, it was easier to stay. After that I gave in to resignation - this is what it is. And it was bad.
Then he got offered a job abroad. I told him to go, spending time apart might be what we need. And I was right - especially when our son said how mom smiles more and is happier whan dad is not at home. I realized I'm so much more better off without him and was getting really annoyed when he was coming home. Our son saw him rarely anyway, so it wasn't such a huge shock for him. We also stayed in the same apartment (mine), same school, same everything.
Thing is, ex also realized some things, like what the issues were and all the things I spent years trying to make him realise, but it was too little too late. We still communicate regarding our son and they have a very good relationship and that's the only thing that matters.
This is a beautiful essay. You have overcome so much. onwards!
Thank you for publishing this post. It might help someone who needs to hear your words ❤️
Long time reader, rare commenter. I just want to challenge any who are in the boat of being skeptical about the book recommendations to read the first few chapters of both. Kristin is absolutely correct that if you have garden variety marriage ups and downs you will not be convinced that you are a victim of abuse. You might, however, learn something that helps you understand and help someone else.
This content fascinates me. Relationships are confusing and complex. I really understand why you have a Patreon too - when I blogged, my bf did the backend parts. I stopped blogging when we split… I didn’t feel like I could handle him as an audience… and in time, I’ve really reduced social media posting (dating someone with kids, and not wanting to get permission from the kids mum was enough). I think it’s an overall good.
Anyhow. I never comment, but I always read, every post, for many years now; since your husband and son featured certainly. I appreciate all you write and share… I saw this post as a sign of your healing 🙂
Kristen, your answer to the reader and post here was perfection. You were thoughtful, helpful with resources/explanations, and kind. My answer would be yes. If I could go back (knowing what I know now) I would.
1. I would fight to get the help I desperately needed for my mental health. I tried to get help and unfortunately had bad experiences with people in the wrong job.
2. I would tell my husband about my childhood traumas instead of keeping quiet because in the past telling hadn't helped.
3. I would fight harder - for me, for him, for us. He was a really good man. I was the one who screwed up because I was screwed up.
I don't live in the past. I have made my peace and my life. I am blessed with where I am now. Just reflecting on the reader's question. I would never advise anyone to stay in an irredeemably broken marriage. Life is too precious.
My prayers go out to the reader that she finds the answers and peace she is searching for.