How can I find a frugally-minded spouse?
Every other Monday, I answer a few of the questions that my readers send me. If you have a question you'd like me to answer in a future Q&A post, just leave a comment here or email me (thefrugalgirl [at] gmail [dot] com) and put Q&A in the subject line. I look forward to hearing from you!
Every so often, this question or a variation thereof hits my inbox, but I don't think we've covered this topic in a Q&A post before.
Here's a recent iteration:
Hi Kristen. I have a rather simple question (although I expect that the answer may not be so simple). I am a 31-year-old male who is religiously frugal. My primary purpose in life is to save the majority of my work income, in order to be able to capitalize on investment opportunities in the years to come, which will allow me to retire early and enjoy absolute financial independence. As such, frugality plays a big part in my life.
My question is: How do I go about finding a woman who shares these same ideals?
The woman I'm currently dating - although she may not be an outright spendthrift - does not share the same passion for frugality that I have. Her willingness to spend money on nonessential items - as opposed to saving and investing said money for our retirement - infuriates me. Actually, most of the people in my life - family, friends, significant other, etc. - behave this way.
So, I guess my revamped question is:
How do I deal with all of the people in my life (loved ones and colleagues) who cause me great distress, due to the fact that they don't share the same values as I do when it comes to saving money? Do I stop associating with them altogether and focus on my financial goals? Or is there another, less drastic, solution I can implement?
Thanks,
James P.
Hi James!
I definitely admire your commitment to saving and reaching your goal of financial independence. I suspect you already read there, but if not, I'm sure you'd enjoy hanging out on Mr. Money Mustache's blog. There are lots of high-earning, frugal-minded people over there who are anxious to retire early.
(And maybe you'll bump into some singles over there!)
I have kind of a long and rambly answer because of the multiple issues raised in your question, but I'll do my best to organize it into something readable.
Finding a Frugal Person
I got married when I was 19, so I have very little experience in the dating world. My inexperienced thought, though, is that you could try hanging out where frugal people hang out (a library book club/a swap party/ an investing class vs. a swanky bar).
I'd definitely also give online dating a try, because there you can specify that you're looking for someone with similar financial goals.
Priorities
You didn't ask about this, but I'm a little concerned about the fact that you said your primary purpose in life is to save money.
I know that's surprising coming from someone as frugal as me, but I think you should consider revamping your priorities a little bit in order to make room for some other fulfilling things.
The thing is, if your primary purpose in life is to save money, I'm not sure you'll be able to have a successful romantic relationship or be a good parent or friend. If saving is your primary focus, you're basically married to saving and relationships will only be good until they happen to get in the way of your money.
(Even if you do find someone super frugal, odds are good that at some point, that person will get in the way of your money!)
Financial Compatibility
Once you've rearranged your priorities a bit to make room for a romantic relationship, I do think you should look for someone who has somewhat similar financial priorities.
Notice I said somewhat, though.
You should look for someone who eschews debt, values saving, and wants to live simply, but I think you should be open to a little variance from a carbon copy of you.
I'm not saying you should date a woman with a weekly Jimmy Choo habit, but you might want to relax your standards just a bit.
See, although it can be very painful for us frugal people, it's often beneficial to be married to someone a little different than yourself.
Mr. FG and I are basically on the same page financially. We both want to live without debt, save for our future, and spend responsibly, but still, Mr. FG holds money more loosely and I hang onto it more tightly.
While this can be frustrating at times for both of us, it's also been healthy for us. I've taught Mr. FG how to be better at saving, and he's helped me grow in generosity.
Also, remember that a person is more than the sum of their spending habits.
Financial compatibility does not a relationship make. It's important, but it's not the only thing you should look for.
Worry About Yourself
As far as non-dating relationships go, don't let other people's spending habits bother you unless they're expecting you to spend like them or are expecting to borrow money from you.
While it would be great if everyone was financially responsible, you can't stress out over everyone else's spending. Save your mental energy for your own finances.
And again, people are more than the sum of their spending. If you only allow yourself to be friends with the small portion of the population that's as frugal as you, you might deprive yourself of some pretty great relationships.
__________________
Readers, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this (and I'm sure James would too.)
The floor, it is yours.
J:You can tell by spending time with someone if he/she is frugal enough or too much so. Once you meet the family and share activities, it becomes obvious. Even their home and style of dress, their mode of transportation...all will tell you. I am married 44 years to a like-minded man; I knew right away. Values are very important, so do not compromise.
I assume you were exaggerating when you said saving was of supreme importance. To me frugality is a means to other ends. Spending to show off or impress is at the same time useless.
This is a great question that my husband and I talk about all the time. We're extremely compatible financially, but although we have those tendencies, we've grown into our financial perspective together. There is so much to say on this, but one thing is to go deeper than just how they spend their money. What is their PURPOSE for saving money? Greed? Hoarding? Or to be able to give more? To be able to use their time for others?
Most of our friends are NOT as frugal as we are (probably quite the opposite) and we struggle with the same question. One thing we've found to be important is to be a good witness of the happiness and fun it can be being frugal. Show that you can still be a friend, hang out, and relate to them in other areas than their high-dollar entertainment. Then when you stand up for a different way of thinking, they'll think, "Hey, it must not be so bad! They're fun, happy, and don't seem to be in any distress!" You might win some newcomers over to you camp. 🙂
I just wanted to give you a shout out for the comment about being a good witness to the joy that frugality can bring. I think people tend to equate being frugal with being on a diet - in other words, people think of it as though they're suffering now so they can enjoy life later. But for me, that's just not the point. It's been the ticket to freedom, fun, and lots of time to spend as I choose.
I think if more people saw how happy living frugally can make them they'd be eager to join us!
Kristen, you did a wonderful job answering each component of his question. I don't really have any advice, but really enjoyed reading your post. Thank you for all your good advice.
I totally agree. A thoughtful and very diplomatic reply Kristen.
I think most readers of this blog are frugal to some degree, so the following should be taken with this in mind: I know a fair number of "money obsessed" men who change considerably when the love of their life walks on to the scene. Additionally, I know some who would trade all their wealth to love and be loved. So whilst frugality has its place and similar values are key to a smooth journey in successful and happy relationships, wealth creation is often misguided as a life focus.
Agreed. Beautiful response.
Agree as well. Very thoughtful and beautifully worded response.
Farm people are often quite frugal. It seems to go with the territory. You might try seeking out girls with a farm background. Also the extremely well dressed, carefully made up beauty is often into spending big money in order to look that way. These are just some observations I have made.
Very good advice, Kristen! When my husband and I got married it took some time to adjust. I am super frugal and he liked to buy higher end things. He didn't ever waste money but bought items like cars and furniture that cost more than I was used to spending. Over the years these purchases held up and lasted much longer than the cheaper brands so it has actually made great financial sense. Relationships have a much greater yield on their investment than any savings account. No one ever reaches their last days here on earth wishing they had saved just one more dollar...you can't take it with you!
What a great comment. You learned to see value in your husband's way of spending and your comment on relationships is brilliant.
I think you hit the nail on the head with your suggestion of priorities. Saving money and being frugal are fabulous. But so is friendship, companionship and having fun. You can still be frugal and have fun in the present day, saving for the future is great, but what about the here and now. When is the future 40, 50, 65? Then you will relax and enjoy a frugal retirement? What is something happens between then? And you have spent your life being frugal, picky and unhappy with people around you? A good friend of mine was saving for her future, was very frugal, did nothing when she was younger but save money. She developed a eye disease and is now blind, she is doing her best, but has some regrets with how she lived her life.
Saving for the future is great, don't get me wrong, but there is so much happening NOW. Don't let money and frugality get in the way of your happiness. I am not saying to start spending, but to me it sounds like that is your life. As she said, Priorities!
Yes, I agree with every one else on here. Joy is the key. Even if you aren't with someone who is necessarily as frugal as you are, sharing the joy you experience from saving, not spending, is an easy way to help them become more like you. Share interesting articles you read about saving money, listen to Dave Ramsey while you drive, do every thing you can to kind of subconsciously help them see the benefits of a different way of thinking about money.
However, one thing I always keep in the back of my mind is a story I heard from a lady in her 80s. Her husband hated spending money and while she always wanted to go to Paris he would push it off..."lets wait till the kids are gone," "we can't afford it until we pay off the house," etc. Then a week after he retired he had a stroke and became home bound. His wife became his caretaker and she expressed extreme depression about her situation. The point is, we never know how long we're given in our lives and despite your intense financial plans, you may never see the benefit of them. Allow yourself to lapse and experience (or give) some non-frugal joy. That's a large part of being in a relationship and a big reason being frugal is so joyous.
I also remember hearing Dave Ramsey counsel a young man who had saved up for a hefty downpayment, which his wife was eager to use, while he wanted to save enough to pay for a house in full. Dave told him to buy a house. Because a house wasn't an investment to his wife, it was a more emotional decision. And as Dave said, what's the use of a big house that's paid off if you don't have a family anymore to share it with? And I say to you, what's the use of all that money you want to have when you're older if you don't have friends and family to share it with?
Kiersten, my parents are in a similar situation to the one you described. They've been married 51 years, and always lived extremely frugally. My mom was recently diagnosed with cancer. It looks like she still has a few years, fortunately. But now, after all these years, they're starting to buy the things they've always put off--a new refrigerator (after fighting a too-small one for 35 years in this house); air conditioning (after years of her having to cook in a hot kitchen); new living room curtains (after years of putting up with ugly old ones that don't close); etc. It makes me sad that they are only making these purchases now, when Mom won't have as much time to enjoy them.
That is assuming the new air conditioning and fridge will really make her more happy.... I think the goal in frugality is to save while maximizing happiness. Buying new stuff doesn't really make you much happy in life, it gives you temporarily happiness but it goes away pretty fast!
I used to buy a lot of new stuff, but with age I just realize that it doesn't make me more happy...
Kristin, you expressed many things that I thought, but you said them so much better than I could have!
James, you might consider breaking off your relationship with the woman you're currently dating. If her spending habits upset you now, when you're just dating, they will be a huge source of conflict if you should marry her.
Also, it might be helpful for you to list out what you consider to be essentials vs. non-essentials. Everybody's list is different. For me, a high-quality kitchen knife is absolutely essential. For my husband, it has to be Tillamook Cheddar Cheese (which costs a buck or two more per loaf than generic). Yes, I could make do with a low cost knife, and it would cut the food adequately, but a really good knife makes my life easier. That said, I would be fine with generic cheddar cheese. But because I love my husband, I buy Tillamook cheese, and because he loves me, he has filled my knife block over the course of several birthdays and Christmases. All that to say, you probably won't find a woman with the exact same list as yours, but love means making room for other peoples' differences. Like Kristin, I doubt that a woman with a weekly Jimmy Choo habit would be a good fit for you, but as long as the basic values are in sync, let your lady be who she is and celebrate what she adds to your life!
One idea, if you find somebody whose list is close but not quite exact...as part of our budget, my husband and I get "blow" money each month. Not a lot, but the point is that we can blow it on whatever we want, without having to justify it to the other person. I buy scrapbooking supplies or splurge at Starbucks with mine; my husband goes out to lunch on occasion with his. This might be a way to work out some small differences in spending habits.
It's great that you're thinking about this before you get married and not just settling for the first woman who crosses your path! Best wishes to you!!!
I agree-someone who infuriates you before you're married is definitely going to infuriate you after you're married (Unless one or both parties make some changes.)
Also, Jake - how do you think she'd feel knowing that you're submitting questions about finding someone while still dating her? To me the writing's on the wall - you sound just not into her. Do the honest and respectful thing and break it off with her before continuing the pursuit.
Er, James, not Jake! 🙂
Yay for Tillamook Cheese! My family is proud to produce it. 🙂 Thank you for investing in that quality.
Good job Kristen on sharing your thoughts! As a married woman,I'm the frugal in our relationship and my husband is not. It takes time to get there and it would be hard for James to find a woman to marry who is frugal because I don't think frugality is his priority,he needs other components too besides this requirement when marrying somebody.
I think before he marries,he (and his future wife) should be clear with their goals in married life through the years and that includes the financial aspect. It's very important to have plans because financial disaster is one of the reasons of countless divorces these days.
Kristen did a great job with her comments. James, one of the criteria I as a woman looked for in a future husband (I was 35 when I got married) was a person who also considered MY needs and desires, not just his own. If you don't take a woman's heart desires into account, you will have an unhappy marriage. Period. When you say that your main goal is financial independence and early retirement, are you considering what that lifestyle will look like with a wife and children? Do you have pre-conceived ideas of how much she should work or will you take her desires into account? What kind of home do you see yourselves living in? Will there be family vacations? How about college costs for kids? The thing is, having a wife and family does come with a financial cost. It's good to have future plans, but I have found that my priorities from 10 years ago have changed, as have my husband's, and we have had to change with it. Flexibility is key in a good marriage. We are frugal, but frugal looks different for everybody--and I believe that you can suck the joy out of life now if you are always preparing for "later".
Kris, I agree with everything you have said. Financial goals are important and having a spouse with similar financial goals is also a good aspect to a fulfilling marriage. But everything you covered is also very important. Family is an expense and an undetermined one at that.
James, I hope you read all the comments as well as Kristen's response. everyone has touched on something very key. A marriage is about coming together to a point where you both want to be. It isn't always instant and it can be a work in progress most of the time. Looking for your carbon copy won't be easy when you are unwilling to grow and change with that person. The commitment of marriage is the key and being committed to that life you are choosing with that person. When you find a woman who not only has similar frugal ideas but also lights up your life and makes you realize that you want to commit to having a LIFE with her, you need to assess what that life will look like, just as Kris said.
My husband and I are frugal people (although maybe not to the extent that you are) but we just made the "investment" of having a wonderful and fun (and slightly more expensive than expected) vacation together that we hadn't been able to do in years. That investment was in our relationship and in our family for a time of bonding and memories. It was worth every penny and I wouldn't have traded it. And considering it an "investment" in our family made us realize that there are times it is okay to spend a little extra.
Which brings up another point--if you do marry someone, most people take a honeymoon together--even frugal honeymoons cost something, and that's not a time I would recommend being too much of a cheapskate (this from the woman who goes rustic camping with her family at campgrounds with vault toilets for $13/night), and unless you go to a justice of the peace, weddings aren't exactly cheap, either.
To answer your question about family and friends whose spending patterns cause you distress: those are their choices and goals, not yours. Unless those choices are dangerous to them (a drug habit) or will have a material effect on you (you will have to support them financially after they spend themslves into the poorhouse) you have only two options: accept their choices or ditch those people.
To answer your first question, how to find a frugal partner: hang out - literally, figuratively, digitally - where the frugal and religious people hang out. I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest you phrase your goals differently. Rather than saying you want to save most of your money (so you can retire early), say you want to retire early (and therefore save most of your money). The former sounds nicely goal-oriented, the latter edges perilously toward stingy.
Something to consider as well: your goals seem both fixed and unusual. What you want requires either an unusual person or dramatic changes on her part. You need to share them early with anyone you're seriously interested in. Don't let it wait till you propose. Anything else would waste your time and hers.
That was so....................right.
I do wish you had a website. I'd read it.
I'd read it in a heartbeat too 😉
"Rather than saying you want to save most of your money (so you can retire early), say you want to retire early (and therefore save most of your money). The former sounds nicely goal-oriented, the latter edges perilously toward stingy."
Oops: that should the former sounds stingy, the latter is goal-oriented.
Good advice about being upfront early on. Remember that divorce is expensive, too.
Hi James,
I think Kristen and the other commenters have given you wonderful advice. I certainly agree with them in saying that perhaps your priorities need a minor shift.
I'm not sure if anyone else picked up on this or maybe (probably!)I am reading too much into your comments. It sort of seems that you may be a tad bit judgemental of others in your life who do not share your values ("infuriated" with your girlfriend who by your own words is not a spendthrift; other people in your life cause you great distress). While I certainly think it's healthy to cultivate relationships with people who share similar values, I think it is equally important to not be cut someone out out of your life because they aren't as committed to frugality as you are. There may be a million other things that you have in common; you may share a passion for reading or sports or advocating for people with Down Syndrome. To disregard these people from your life because they don't tick all the boxes in your "what it takes to be in my life" list is unfortunate. Sure, the person you spend your life with should have goals and values similar to your's. But she doesn't have to be an exact replica of you. There may be areas in your life together that she is stronger or more passionate about. And that is how two people complement each other.
You ask: "How do I deal with all of the people in my life (loved ones and colleagues) who cause me great distress, due to the fact that they don’t share the same values as I do when it comes to saving money?" Perhaps you could ask them the same question about you.
You have to remember as well that money isn't everything. Growing up, we didn't go on fancy vacations, or have expensive clothes or toys. There was always a sense of putting things off till the time and money was right. Then one day when I was 11 and my siblings were 7 and 9, there was an accident at my Dad's work and he died. He was 36. We carried on as best we could. Mom spent her whole life looking forward to retirement, planning where she would live, what she would do, looking forward to spending time with any grandchildren that she might be blessed with. She died about a year and a half before she was due to retire. I have two beautiful nephews who will never know their grandmother. She would have adored them.
My point, James, is that time, retirement, the future - there is no guarantee on that. Plan for it, look forward to it, but please don't do it at the expense of other important things in your life. There has to be a happy medium. You just need to find it.
Very well said.
Although financial responsibility is important, I believe that there
ought to be a balance in order to live a healthy and happy life.
Someone who is obsessed with saving money and foregoing
enjoyment of life today is missing the point.
Anyone who is that concerned about saving money for retirement
to the point that they deprive themselves (and the loved ones
around them) of enjoyment of experiences today, will most likely never
spend their money during retirement either.
This behavior is just as irrational as a spendthrift who ends up in
financial bankruptcy. It's just the other end of the spectrum.
James, James! There are some very nice folks here with great advice. Listen to them!
James, having pre-marital counseling that includes things like Dave Ramsey before marriage sounds like that maybe a good fit for you. But if the person you care currently dating is a match with you then you can and should bring up your concerns in pre-marital counseling and while attending a local Dave Ramsey class. Until you make an emotional commitment to her then she may not be willing to change for you. If you see a life partner in her then when you start talking commitments and values and goals the two should meld into one. You should also talk about kids, houses, discipline, religion, politics ect. in counseling in order to get past any concerns you may have..Good Luck!
I think that James P. could do with some time with a qualified therapist and I am not saying this unkindly or disrespectfully.
I think Kristen did an excellent job answering the questions, you were honest but very gentle and kind.
But...let's be real here. There's much more to the answers for James' happiness in life than him asking for help finding an extremely frugal girlfriend.
I agree ! I would hate to think that I passed up a friendship or thought less of my relatives just because they spend THEIR money the way THEY want to and not the way I want them to! If I expected my friends and relatives to be frugal like me in order to have a relationship with them, I'd only have 1 friend and...1 relative that I still spoke to...and I come from a VERY big family! 🙂
All of you delivered some great advice.
Don't marry someone with the expectation that you can change them into who you want them to be. Decide to either live with the way they are, or move on. When you get married it is all about compromise, some battles are not worth fighting, some are.
Hi, I admire someone who is cognizant about saving for their retirement, and works towards "later stage life goals", but life is a journey to enjoy along the way. Loosen up a bit. If you capture, say 80% vs 100% of intended savings, yet traveled, had fun, kicked up your heels and had a blast doing things you'd normally deem "frivolous" or wasting money, then IMO, you're missing out on enjoying life as it unfolds. Some people get to their retirement goals, but didn't live along the way and then had health problems etc, that prevented spending their hard earned savings, and die young. It's a balance of being responsible, and having fun along the way.
Kristen, that was the nicest "facepunch" ever! This is why I love your blog, even though I read MMM and participate in the MMM forums. The forums are useful for specific questions and though I haven't checked it out, I do know that there is a "singles" section.
James' attitude reminds me of a guy I once dated. (Oh boy, I kissed a lot of frogs along the way.) He had saved a million dollars first and then started looking for the "right" spouse. Of course, no one was "worthy". Even though I was smartly frugal and had a good chunk of savings myself (I never told him how much.), once I figured him out I was outta there. Don't know what happened to him, but I sure am happy I waited.
Many years later, I married a man who is not all that frugal. He is simply amazing at distinguishing wants from needs. If he decides he needs something, he finds it on Craigslist or similar to get it at a good price. He has a 12 year old truck that looks new because he takes good (not obsessive) care of it. He builds and fixes things, often using YouTube to teach himself. We are only approaching two years of marriage, but we have sold three houses, bought a new one together, moved his mother and her friend Al Z. Heimer in with us and never had a single argument about money.
All that said, my favorite part of this post is the photos of Mr. & Mrs. TFG. Lovely!
Oh, sadly that's not me and Mr. FG! That's my cousin and her husband...I did their engagement session this summer, and so their pictures were the easiest thing for me to find to illustrate a post about relationships.
I don't have tons of pictures of Mr. FG and me, both because I am always behind the camera and because he is dreadfully camera-shy. 😉
Funny, that's exactly why I thought it was you and Mr. FG, because I remembered that he's camera shy. I thought these photos were a clever work around. They're lovely, either way.
Remember that money does not equal happiness. Money can get you things that help you to be more happy, but if you spend the first half or third of your life shunning everyone who doesn't value the acquisition of money as much as you do, you won't cultivate good relationships or the social skills required to have them. You'll spend the last half or third of your life lonely, and, chances are, you won't even be able to use the money you've accrued to buy happiness at that point because you will be a habitual money hoarder.
People matter most, James. Saving is wise, and being with a financially compatible person is going to be a must for you, but if you make money number one in your life, you won't have much of a life.
I am going to echo what everyone else is saying here.
What is it they say . . . something like "plan like you'll live forever and live like you'll die tomorrow." You've got to find a balance and make memories, not just money. Frugalness can be fun, challenging, and can encourage creativity. But spending a little here and there can be fulfilling, too, especially with the right person.
My father died 3 months after retiring and my mother never made it to retirement.
A year or two before my mother died she bought a 3-wheel adult bicycle (or tricycle, I guess) and a porch swing. These are things she had wanted for years and years and years but put off, along with a lot of other things, for a more secure financial future. That future never really came so I am glad she finally took the time to go for a ride and sit on that swing watching the sunsets. In the greater scheme of things, these long-delayed indulgences were so worth the money.
Hey,
Lots of good advice here!
I have two things to add:
1. Date a lot...you can find frugal people almost anywhere. Pay attention when you are dating and know what a dealbreaker is in the area of finances. I was dating a sweet, wonderful guy who is still a good friend. He bought a condo to rent out as an investment, which I thought was great. Then he shared with me that he hoped his tenants would pay on time because he didn't even have one month's mortgage payment saved up! I was shocked that he had NO savings and knew at that moment that I could never live that way. Nothing against him, just not my cup of tea. When I was dating my now husband, he talked about paying cash for his Master's Degree, how he had stared his 401k savings when he first graduated from college and owned a twin mattress, a card table, one folding chair and two suits. I heard those things and knew we had a connection. BTW, my hubby was a blind date, so you never know!
2. A spouse and children delay early retirement or might even make it impossible. And that might be okay...you will need to think about this. We have chosen for me to stay at home with our two children. So far, I have missed out on 11 years of income, investment opportunities and retirement savings. My hubby is 51 and I am 45. If we had never had children, I know we'd be retired already with a very comfortable income and savings. If I had worked full time with kids, we'd be super close to retiring. But I don't regret for a minute having my two daughters or delaying when we will retire.
So, if your primary goal is early retirement, you might think hard about what other elements you want your life to have...like a spouse or children. And be prepared to have some honest, open talks with serious girlfriends along the way. But if your primary goal is to live frugally through all of life's stages, you need to explore with the women you date what your mutual goals are.
Cheers and good luck!
It is my experience that those who give up all pleasure now in hopes of being able to enjoy it later can't ever enjoy it. I would very much like to see James set aside a certain amount of money to spend frivolously now so he learns how to enjoy life. What worked for our family was for each of us to have an allowance that we could spend without accounting to the others for it. I mostly spent mine to build a scale house and furnish it, my husband spent his on photography, and our daughter spent hers on music. Plus we had a separate travel account that let us take some wonderful vacations. Those things gave us pleasure while we continued to save for the future. At age 67 the future is now and we are very comfortable with all we saved through the years plus the enjoyment we've had along the way.
Having thought more about this while discussing it with my husband I wonder what experience has made James so anxious to save all his money? Perhaps he would be willing to buy a book that has helped me. It is called The Feeling Good Handbook by David. D. Burns. It is a workbook that helps you analyze your thoughts and their origins so you can decide if you want to rewrite those thoughts and, if so, helps you do that.
Frugal people are not born that way. They are made that way. Either from example or some financially, life threatening event, frugality is a learned profession. It's a learned way of life.
You can either find someone you like and turn them into someone you will frugally love. Or you can hang out where the frugally enlightened people hang and seek out a significant other that way. Go to Dave Ramsey events, Suze Orman lectures or appearances and odds are good you will find someone of your ilk. Hang out in the financial section of your public library.
Better yet, stand around the exit door of a bankruptcy court and you just may find a single person ripe for change.
One word of caution, however. People who save frantically thinking that once they retire they will spend and enjoy wildly and endlessly may be in for a rude awakening. My mom sacrificed her whole life and took her first vacation at the age of 58. Three weeks later, after feeling very ill, a visit to the doctor told her she had incurable cancer and would be dead within three months. How's that for a kick in the head? Moral: balance frugality now with some enjoyment now so that you can continue to live frugally later and enjoy your life, also later.
Life is a series of balances. Finding the yin that goes with your yang.
My husband was a spender. It took decades for me to get him over to my side. Financial boo-boos sped up the process. Now, that he's here, the journey was worth it. Life is so much better when like minds grow and merge together. In other words, I made him the man I wanted myself to be. Look for that rough diamond. People do change. And for the better, I must add.
Good luck!
It's not necessary for everyone around you to think like you in order for you to be friends. Their lifestyle and financial mistakes are theirs, as long as they don't impact you of course. Don't take it personally if a relative or friend likes to waste money and doesn't see eye to eye with you on the subject, just recognize that you agree to disagree, and never talk about it.
My friends who I call money wasters often come to me for advice on how to get out of a financial bind, and I show them a plan to do just that. Unfortunately, most of them like living in the moment and aren't willing to make the sacrifices it takes to gain financial freedom. To each their own! I still love them....I just don't loan them money!
As far as finding a like minded frugal spouse, keep in mind that the #1 cause of arguments in marriages is over finances so it's important that your significant can ACCEPT your frugal ways (notice I didn't say AGREE'S with your frugal ways). My husband, for example, is not frugal, but he doesn't like to spend money...period. I on the other hand like to spend money, but only if I can find a way to get what I want at, at least 75% off retail. Together we make a good combination. One agreement we both had before we got married is that we would not get married until we were both 100% debt free, that way pre-maritial debts could not be a source of marital arguments.
Also keep in mind that there are times when you have to throw away your frugal handbook...like when you go on vacation! It makes sense to spend a little more money renting a vacation house because you'll save money eating in a couple of meals, and you can use the money you saved on eating out, to splurge on the activities. Or don't eat out for 2 weeks so that you can splurge on a night out with your friends.
Being frugal is not something you have to practice 100% of the time. Allow yourself some flexibility to "live a little". I don't see frugality as depriving myself of something...I look at it as doing without some of the conveniences of life (like fast food) in exchange for some of the luxuries. For my family I'm frugal so that we CAN afford some luxuries (jet ski, vacations, etc), in addition to saving for the kids college & retirement.
I'd be willing to bet that if your significant other likes to waste money and doesn't see the benefit of your frugality, there are probably other areas where you're not compatible that will cause friction in the relationship.
If you're searching for a frugal woman, here are some things that are an indication that they might NOT be frugal minded:
1. Smokes cigarettes & drinks alcohol(what a waste of money!)
2. Professionally manicured nails (can easily be done as a DIY saving $60 a month)
3. highlighted or bleached hair (upkeep is about $130 a month at a salon)
4. High dollar brand clothes (but not always because I find great deals online)
5. A collection of high dollar shoes
6. High dollar purses (but not always because there are a lot of cheap knock-offs out there).
7. Everything they own is financed. (#1 clue is credit card debt) - if they open their wallet and you see a credit card for every department store, that's a good indication they're probably over their head in credit card debt. One Visa card can do the same as 7 department store/gas cards so if you see a line-up of Macys, Dillards, Nordstroms, gas cards, etc. among their credit cards, it likely means they've maxed out their Visa and they had to move on to getting other cards. Tons of credit cards means they might have a problem with buying things on credit that they can't actually afford.
A frugal person is always proud of their frugal finds and loves sharing their frugal accomplishments. I've never found a frugal person that's ashamed of their frugality, although I'm sure there are some out there.
So, the #1 test that I've used to determine if someone is like-minded is I notice something they're wearing and comment on it. If they say "oh thank you, can you believe I found it at a re-sale shop?" or "Thanks, I gave up Jack N The Box for 2 months so I could afford to buy them" versus a brag of "Thanks, I got it in 3 different colors the first day they hit the shelf at Nordstroms".
I definitely think you shouldn't be looking for advice on how to find a frugal spouse while you're dating someone!
However, having said that, I can see a lot of myself in this letter. I am single, 30, female and very frugal. I've spent the last few years completing my PhD on a tight budget, but have also managed to save quite a reasonable house deposit in that time.
My ex boyfriend and I used to clash quite a bit about money. I was more frugal than him, and would get frustrated that he wanted to buy lunch and soda every day, wanted to drive everywhere and wanted to buy random stuff. We eventually went our separate ways for other reasons as well and I feel like I have a better idea of myself and what I want out of a relationship now. I think for me it is a matter of values and priorities rather than money. I value simple living and home-cooked meals over buying stuff. I'm not very materialistic and would prefer to put my money towards buying a house so that I can be more self-sufficient. So I would like my future partner to at least share these values, if not to the extent I have them.
I am currently trying the online dating thing, but can't bring myself to pay for any of them yet. I would like to suggest Tinder (for anyone who is actually single). It's free, and not just for random hookups (as I originally thought). I've met some cool people through it, and who knows, one might lead to something 🙂
Hmmm... While I agree that relationships are more important than money, I also can understand at least part of where James is coming from. My Ex and I fought constantly about money, and as you might imagine, I was on the frugal end of the arguments. But the thing is, when it came right down to it, we weren't really fighting about the money per se - the key issue was that I felt taken advantage of.
I made less than half the income that he did, and I lived extremely frugally. Yet he was always borrowing money from me, using my credit cards, not paying me back, and living a lifestyle that I could never hope to afford.
So while I do agree that people are more important than money, I think that a relationship where one person is making big sacrifices so the other can blow all the money on frivolous purchases is doomed to failure, because the frugal one will always feel taken advantage of.
Anyhow, James, I'm sorta assuming this is where you are coming from, and that what infuriates you is that you feel the situation is unfair. That being the case, I'd urge you to talk honestly and openly with your girlfriend - but not in an accusatory way - and to focus on your feelings rather than the money... because that's the real issue anyway.
This guy seems like a piece of work. He's focused on saving and saving for some distant time in the future, and just to 'invest'. Not to travel, or finance for future children or for some passion, just to amass more money. This is a really unhealthy mentality, and I think his obsession shows through in the way he says that he is 'infuriated' by someone who doesn't save. I buy second hand, shops sales and thrift stores, eat leftovers for lunch, and put away ten percent of every paycheck to savings, but this is so I can have money for things I enjoy, not so I can just collect more and more. It's not my one goal. Instead of constantly saving for retirement, why not go to a concert, fair, or museum?
Really, he sounds like a reincarnation of Ebenezer Scrooge.
FeatheredFiend, I think you're being very hard on the OP. All we know about this person is contained in a single letter. You say you're frugal so you can have things you enjoy. That's exactly what the OP is trying to do - have the retirement he will enjoy. Further he could have reason to think he'll have a short lifespan, or has something he wants to devote his long retirement to, or really wants a cabin in the woods and a fishing rod.
It's true that the word "infuriated" comes across as harsh. That could mean he's not great at chosing words rather than having the stern stingy character you ascribe to him. I'm not inclined to draw deep conclusions based on a single piece of correspondence.
Yes. This is always a challenge for me when I do Q&A posts...I frequently wish I could have a conversation with the question-asker before I answer!
Life is not about money. Absorb each moment and you shall be very rich.
Funny but when I read his question it sounds like he just wants to be financially independant, I doesn't sound to me that his goal is just to save. And I don't see anything wrong with his goal of being financially independant and trying to find someone compatible with his goals/lifestyle. It reminds me of Christians wanting to date Christians, problems will happen as the lifestyle of a non-Christian would be different. Marriage definitely is a give and take though even among like minded people so each person will have to compromise at times. What one considers essential can very greatly. It remindss me of people who sacrifice to get a business started and though it wouldn't be for me, someone else might be very happy and not have regrets with that lifestyle. I can see how other people can upset you if they are constantly telling you that you should spend like they do. It helps when you're trying to save money to reach your goal to have friends with similar goals/lifestyles.
This is great advice! I'm working on a blog post about money and marriage. I've found that Tom and I are continuously improving and adjusting our roles when it comes to our budget. We have seen it evolve tremendously over time.
I love your advice about finding someone who wants to live simply. That is the best thing I've heard when it comes to finding someone who values money the same way. If both people have the same goals, then it won't be a problem to be financially compatible. Awesome advice!
I am frugal but I did not consider my husband to be so when we married: he didn't buy many things, but the few he would buy may be expensive. Then we learned that we actually both value saving money but in different ways: he likes to save for a specific purpose (e.g. save to go on vacation or get something specific) while I save for future financial security. So, we combined both our set of values: we have different saving buckets purposely assign to things or areas of our lives that matter to us. I hope this helps you see frugality in marriage in a different light. Maybe the person you meet may not strike you as frugal at first, but maybe that person is frugal/money conscious in a different way to you.
I think James states he is "infuriated " with people who don't share his money views, and I find that troubling. If James is content with his world-view, why should others infuriate him? This points to some issues related to relationships,I think, and I agree with Kristen's advice about priorities.If James truly does want to be be married, it might be a good idea for him to study how to have a happy relationship as much as he has studied money/frugality. Marriage is work AND pleasure, but as we married folks know, there is much compromise and a lot of unexpected "stuff" that comes up with a spouse, a marriage, and yikes! CHILDREN!!!
If James truly wants a mate, it sounds like having her very close to his own philosophies and priorities would be essential,so, I'd say visit the Goodwill!! Visit libraries, or other free events, and look ing at clothing and shoes and car she drives.. if the money thing is a huge issue.
I'd also say that a little reading or exploring of the idea of enjoying the present moment vs. living too much for the future, would be good.Can't save EVERYTHING now and miss out on ALL the joy!!
Just all my humble opinion.
I'm really curious what this guy wants to retire early to do. Once he's achieved financial independence, what's he going to do with his time? There must be something. I hope. You wake up one morning and you're financially independent. So what will you be doing at 10 a.m.? Maybe there's some way to incorporate that into his life now so he's not so obsessive as he sounds in this post, and which I have a hard time thinking many women will be in to.
Hey - off topic here (in fact, almost against the spirit of the question asked!) but I love the bracelet in the second photograph! Is that you Kristin? Can you let me know where it is from? Is it one from the Novica site you have mentioned?
Thanks!
It's actually my cousin...I was the one behind the camera. I'll check with her to see where she got it!
Ok, I just checked and she said she got it at Charming Charlie's, which appears to be a nationwide chain.
Ok, I'm going to stand up for James. I didn't find the use of his word "infuriating" nearly as offensive as others did. He probably just meant it frustrates him to see people waste money. He's set his goals - it's a free country, why discourage him from living his life the way HE wants to. That having been said, I say just go live your life. When you find the love of your life you will know and frugal or not, if she really is the love of your life, she will respect your goals (and you hers) and you'll work out a compromise so that you do save for your goals and also smell the roses along the way. The comments may have contained some good advice, but man did you guys come down hard on him (and no, I am not the OP).
I definitely agree that he's free to live the way he wants to live. But my concern was just that if his main purpose in life is saving, he'll have a rough time being successful in a relationship. My purpose wasn't to bash him, but to gently point out that maybe some priority-shifting would be helpful.
Kristin, I think you gave a very even answer. I especially like what you advised in a very kind way concerning priorities. Of course, there is more to life than saving money and even in that the emphasis is money or accumulating it. Not very fulfilling if you ask me. And I would also add... the Bible, Matthew 6.19-21.
Kristen, sorry for the misspelling.
once a person has a child, they usually change their priorities , now it's time to be responsible parent first and frugal second